Preseason Finale! Game 6 Suns @ Lakers

[jcsunsfan]

Was gonna say, for everyone being so negative a win is a win.

Not in preseason. Preseason is how you play and develop. Its not about wins and losses.

With 2 minutes left we were tied and both teams wanted to win. We executed really well a play for a 3p shot by Dudley and defensively Warren made a big steal down the strech and his free throws.

All that matters and give us confidence entering the season.

Yes. The execution matters. That is not the same as saying "a win is a win."

[Zelaznyrules]

All this national Booker love has some people thinking we have a Kobe in his prime and we simply don't.

I am fairly certain you're the only one I've seen say this. Do many of us think we have Kobe in his 2nd year? Yeah, because his stats last year were sneakily identical to Kobe's first season and the kid is mature beyond his years like Kobe was. That's all anyone has said. No one has said he looks like prime Kobe Bryant. Come on, man.

I must not have made my point well because I don't think we're really talking about the same thing here. I'm not taking a shot at Suns fans like Espo did, suggesting that we're putting him in the Hall of Fame already. I'm taking about the announcers and the talking heads that have all jumped on the bandwagon and the fact these guys aren't giving us well thought out opinions, they're just echoing and sometimes embellishing what others have said.

When things fall apart for us and when Booker plays like he almost surely will (like a 2nd year player, early on his journey to probably stardom), the casual Suns fans that have been hearing all of this talk are going to be dismayed. And there are a lot more casual fans than there are of us. They are being told he's Kobe already and he isn't. Listen to a Suns game with the other announcers or watch any of the stupid shows on ESPN or the NBA Network and it's scary the way they've changed Booker's rookie season into a great season and the way they are talking about him now as a finished product.

[letsgosuns]

I think Booker is going to be a superstar eventually whether it is this year or in the future, although I have no expectations when it is going to happen. However, I am definitely not expecting him to lead the Suns to victories as only a second year player. That is unfair.

When Kobe was in his second year, he was on a team with Shaq, Horry, Fox, Fisher, Van Exel, Elden Campbell, Eddie Jones, and even Jon Barry. So Kobe was not relied upon to win games that year and was not close to being the best player on his team yet. It is the opposite for Booker because not only is he the best player on the Suns, there is virtually nobody on the team with him that compares to what Kobe had for his second season.

Btw, I am going to say something about this Booker versus Kobe comparison. Idk how good Booker will be and I do not want to sell him short, but Kobe is the best player I have ever seen besides Jordan. So if Booker actually turns out to be good enough that his career is on Kobe's level or higher, that would be amazing.

[Jdiddy701]

That top 3 from Dudley off a time out was good to see. No more Hornacek terrible plays. I used to always remember coming out a timeout would be a disaster play.


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[Saberestar]

I think Booker is going to be a superstar eventually whether it is this year or in the future, although I have no expectations when it is going to happen. However, I am definitely not expecting him to lead the Suns to victories as only a second year player. That is unfair.

When Kobe was in his second year, he was on a team with Shaq, Horry, Fox, Fisher, Van Exel, Elden Campbell, Eddie Jones, and even Jon Barry. So Kobe was not relied upon to win games that year and was not close to being the best player on his team yet. It is the opposite for Booker because not only is he the best player on the Suns, there is virtually nobody on the team with him that compares to what Kobe had for his second season.

Btw, I am going to say something about this Booker versus Kobe comparison. Idk how good Booker will be and I do not want to sell him short, but Kobe is the best player I have ever seen besides Jordan. So if Booker actually turns out to be good enough that his career is on Kobe's level or higher, that would be amazing.

I am not comparing him to Kobe because it's setting too high expectations.

For now I'm fine comparing Booker with Brandon Roy. And he was a heck of a player, if Booker actually turns out to be that good in his prime it would be fantastic.

[DirtyDez]

I think Booker is going to be a superstar eventually whether it is this year or in the future, although I have no expectations when it is going to happen. However, I am definitely not expecting him to lead the Suns to victories as only a second year player. That is unfair.

When Kobe was in his second year, he was on a team with Shaq, Horry, Fox, Fisher, Van Exel, Elden Campbell, Eddie Jones, and even Jon Barry. So Kobe was not relied upon to win games that year and was not close to being the best player on his team yet. It is the opposite for Booker because not only is he the best player on the Suns, there is virtually nobody on the team with him that compares to what Kobe had for his second season.

Btw, I am going to say something about this Booker versus Kobe comparison. Idk how good Booker will be and I do not want to sell him short, but Kobe is the best player I have ever seen besides Jordan. So if Booker actually turns out to be good enough that his career is on Kobe's level or higher, that would be amazing.

Everyone takes a different path. When MJ was Booker's age he was playing behind James Worthy and Sam Perkins at North Carolina.

Thing about Kobe is he graduated a year early from HS and was drafted at 17. If the rules back then were as they were today then Kobe's 2nd year in the NBA should've been his freshman year in college. Lebron, Kobe, KG, Amare etc... Imagine if those guys were forced to play a year in college lol.

I think Booker will take that star leap his third year. This will be his first full season and he wore down at the end of last year so I expect the same... Remember he didn't play much in college.

I think it would've been stupid to trade Knight before the season for that reason.

[Boxy99]

Comparing booker to koby is flat out disrespectful to booker

[theSUNalsoRISES]

Comparing booker to koby is flat out disrespectful to booker

finally some sense spoken in this thread.

[bwgood77]

Bledsoe and Knight both had terrible preseasons. Each of them looked as bad or worse than ever. Here are their statistics:

Bledsoe:
9.8 pts, 4.8 ast, 2.3 to, 33.3% fg, 24.1 mpg

Knight:
12.8 pts, 3 ast, 2.2 to, 41.8% fg, 23.9 mpg

Injuries or no injuries, this is Bledsoe's seventh year in the league and Knight's sixth year. These guys should be far better than what they showed during preseason, if they were actually star guards. And make no mistake, they got paid like they were star guards.

Compare their preseason statistics to Booker's:
19.6 pts, 2.6 ast, 2.2 to, 45.5% fg, 26.5 mpg

These numbers speak for themselves. Bledsoe and Knight are both considered point guards and they combined to average 7.8 ast and 4.5 to. That is so bad. They make Marbury look like Magic Johnson. As good as McDonough has been at drafting, he has been equally as bad at giving out free agent contracts. His three biggest contracts, Bledsoe, Knight, and also Chandler, have not lived up to their contracts even remotely.

Just wondering, since you continue to hate on these guys, and sure, I have my problems with at least Knight too, why not pick on, say, the starting vet PF we signed? I mean Bledsoe had numbers last year that put him in elite company. Meanwhile we have a vet PF we signed to start, and he is averaging 8 pts and 3 boards a game in the preseason.

Is it just because it is Jared Dudley? 8 pts and 3 rebounds for our starting PF? It seems like had we signed another vet PF and he was even averaging less than even like 7 rebounds, you would be irate.

I guess sometimes I just don't completely understand why you pick on certain players and not others.

[letsgosuns]

Bledsoe and Knight both had terrible preseasons. Each of them looked as bad or worse than ever. Here are their statistics:

Bledsoe:
9.8 pts, 4.8 ast, 2.3 to, 33.3% fg, 24.1 mpg

Knight:
12.8 pts, 3 ast, 2.2 to, 41.8% fg, 23.9 mpg

Injuries or no injuries, this is Bledsoe's seventh year in the league and Knight's sixth year. These guys should be far better than what they showed during preseason, if they were actually star guards. And make no mistake, they got paid like they were star guards.

Compare their preseason statistics to Booker's:
19.6 pts, 2.6 ast, 2.2 to, 45.5% fg, 26.5 mpg

These numbers speak for themselves. Bledsoe and Knight are both considered point guards and they combined to average 7.8 ast and 4.5 to. That is so bad. They make Marbury look like Magic Johnson. As good as McDonough has been at drafting, he has been equally as bad at giving out free agent contracts. His three biggest contracts, Bledsoe, Knight, and also Chandler, have not lived up to their contracts even remotely.

Just wondering, since you continue to hate on these guys, and sure, I have my problems with at least Knight too, why not pick on, say, the starting vet PF we signed? I mean Bledsoe had numbers last year that put him in elite company. Meanwhile we have a vet PF we signed to start, and he is averaging 8 pts and 3 boards a game in the preseason.

Is it just because it is Jared Dudley? 8 pts and 3 rebounds for our starting PF? It seems like had we signed another vet PF and he was even averaging less than even like 7 rebounds, you would be irate.

I guess sometimes I just don't completely understand why you pick on certain players and not others.

Well first off, Dudley is only a temporary starter until Chriss or Bender are ready to replace him. Secondly, Dudley impacts the game in ways Bledsoe and Knight cannot. He makes winning plays. His IQ alone outweighs anything Bledsoe or Knight can do to help win games. That is my biggest issue regarding Bledsoe and Knight. They are two of the dumbest basketball players I have ever seen. That is why I do not believe the Suns will ever go anywhere with either one of them leading the team. I 100% believe Ulis is already a smarter point guard than either one of them can ever be.

[Zelaznyrules]

Bledsoe and Knight both had terrible preseasons. Each of them looked as bad or worse than ever. Here are their statistics:

Bledsoe:
9.8 pts, 4.8 ast, 2.3 to, 33.3% fg, 24.1 mpg

Knight:
12.8 pts, 3 ast, 2.2 to, 41.8% fg, 23.9 mpg

Injuries or no injuries, this is Bledsoe's seventh year in the league and Knight's sixth year. These guys should be far better than what they showed during preseason, if they were actually star guards. And make no mistake, they got paid like they were star guards.

Compare their preseason statistics to Booker's:
19.6 pts, 2.6 ast, 2.2 to, 45.5% fg, 26.5 mpg

These numbers speak for themselves. Bledsoe and Knight are both considered point guards and they combined to average 7.8 ast and 4.5 to. That is so bad. They make Marbury look like Magic Johnson. As good as McDonough has been at drafting, he has been equally as bad at giving out free agent contracts. His three biggest contracts, Bledsoe, Knight, and also Chandler, have not lived up to their contracts even remotely.

Just wondering, since you continue to hate on these guys, and sure, I have my problems with at least Knight too, why not pick on, say, the starting vet PF we signed? I mean Bledsoe had numbers last year that put him in elite company. Meanwhile we have a vet PF we signed to start, and he is averaging 8 pts and 3 boards a game in the preseason.

Is it just because it is Jared Dudley? 8 pts and 3 rebounds for our starting PF? It seems like had we signed another vet PF and he was even averaging less than even like 7 rebounds, you would be irate.

I guess sometimes I just don't completely understand why you pick on certain players and not others.

Well first off, Dudley is only a temporary starter until Chriss or Bender are ready to replace him. Secondly, Dudley impacts the game in ways Bledsoe and Knight cannot. He makes winning plays. His IQ alone outweighs anything Bledsoe or Knight can do to help win games. That is my biggest issue regarding Bledsoe and Knight. They are two of the dumbest basketball players I have ever seen. That is why I do not believe the Suns will ever go anywhere with either one of them leading the team. I 100% believe Ulis is already a smarter point guard than either one of them can ever be.

Dudley is definitely a high IQ player but the list of things he can't do or can't do well more than offsets his basketball smarts. And I agree that Ulis is a smarter player than either Bledsoe or Knight. But I think you well overstate the situation when you call them two of the dumbest players you've ever seen. They are probably below average in that regard but Bledsoe is still a well above average starter and Knight, well, I don't know what Knight is. None of us really do. I think though that you're focusing on one small tree and missing the entire forest here. We have no bigger problem than Dudley as a rotation player, he's far more mismatched than anyone else on this team. Nice guy, nice teammate but he's a bad player by any measure.

[bwgood77]

Bledsoe and Knight both had terrible preseasons. Each of them looked as bad or worse than ever. Here are their statistics:

Bledsoe:
9.8 pts, 4.8 ast, 2.3 to, 33.3% fg, 24.1 mpg

Knight:
12.8 pts, 3 ast, 2.2 to, 41.8% fg, 23.9 mpg

Injuries or no injuries, this is Bledsoe's seventh year in the league and Knight's sixth year. These guys should be far better than what they showed during preseason, if they were actually star guards. And make no mistake, they got paid like they were star guards.

Compare their preseason statistics to Booker's:
19.6 pts, 2.6 ast, 2.2 to, 45.5% fg, 26.5 mpg

These numbers speak for themselves. Bledsoe and Knight are both considered point guards and they combined to average 7.8 ast and 4.5 to. That is so bad. They make Marbury look like Magic Johnson. As good as McDonough has been at drafting, he has been equally as bad at giving out free agent contracts. His three biggest contracts, Bledsoe, Knight, and also Chandler, have not lived up to their contracts even remotely.

Just wondering, since you continue to hate on these guys, and sure, I have my problems with at least Knight too, why not pick on, say, the starting vet PF we signed? I mean Bledsoe had numbers last year that put him in elite company. Meanwhile we have a vet PF we signed to start, and he is averaging 8 pts and 3 boards a game in the preseason.

Is it just because it is Jared Dudley? 8 pts and 3 rebounds for our starting PF? It seems like had we signed another vet PF and he was even averaging less than even like 7 rebounds, you would be irate.

I guess sometimes I just don't completely understand why you pick on certain players and not others.

Well first off, Dudley is only a temporary starter until Chriss or Bender are ready to replace him. Secondly, Dudley impacts the game in ways Bledsoe and Knight cannot. He makes winning plays. His IQ alone outweighs anything Bledsoe or Knight can do to help win games. That is my biggest issue regarding Bledsoe and Knight. They are two of the dumbest basketball players I have ever seen. That is why I do not believe the Suns will ever go anywhere with either one of them leading the team. I 100% believe Ulis is already a smarter point guard than either one of them can ever be.

I won't disagree with any of that, but Bledsoe does other things as well. I do think Ulis is a better floor general and likely also an underrated defender, but probably isn't ready. As much as we like or dislike Bledsoe, he is likely here to stay. He has worked hard too and put in an effort to be more of a leader not only on the court but off of it. I think we need to embrace him to the best exten we can. I hope to get our long term future PG in the next draft, but for now, I don't know that complaining about him repeatedly helps. Obviously he is going to make mistakes and we all of course have a right to complain when he does, and he needs to work on turnovers, but it isn't for a lack of trying.

Knight is trying too. Not my favorite player by any means, but he is in a better role now and seems to be doing better. This season will likely be a tough season to watch, but I hope people can more concentrate on the positive things they see and be hopeful for the future. Because we all will be frustrated, but continuing to pile on it when there is nothing we can do to change it, can get old.

[letsgosuns]

Knight is definitely one of the dumbest players I have ever seen. Bledsoe should be smarter but he plays like one of the dumbest players I have ever seen. Like last night, he had turnovers and some transition shot attempts that made no sense. Those are things I would never see an intelligent point guard do. Too often he seems to lose focus and forget that he is playing an actual game and not a scrimmage. Very rarely do I question the focus of a player but I do with Bledsoe.

[letsgosuns]

Just wondering, since you continue to hate on these guys, and sure, I have my problems with at least Knight too, why not pick on, say, the starting vet PF we signed? I mean Bledsoe had numbers last year that put him in elite company. Meanwhile we have a vet PF we signed to start, and he is averaging 8 pts and 3 boards a game in the preseason.

Is it just because it is Jared Dudley? 8 pts and 3 rebounds for our starting PF? It seems like had we signed another vet PF and he was even averaging less than even like 7 rebounds, you would be irate.

I guess sometimes I just don't completely understand why you pick on certain players and not others.

Well first off, Dudley is only a temporary starter until Chriss or Bender are ready to replace him. Secondly, Dudley impacts the game in ways Bledsoe and Knight cannot. He makes winning plays. His IQ alone outweighs anything Bledsoe or Knight can do to help win games. That is my biggest issue regarding Bledsoe and Knight. They are two of the dumbest basketball players I have ever seen. That is why I do not believe the Suns will ever go anywhere with either one of them leading the team. I 100% believe Ulis is already a smarter point guard than either one of them can ever be.

I won't disagree with any of that, but Bledsoe does other things as well. I do think Ulis is a better floor general and likely also an underrated defender, but probably isn't ready. As much as we like or dislike Bledsoe, he is likely here to stay. He has worked hard too and put in an effort to be more of a leader not only on the court but off of it. I think we need to embrace him to the best exten we can. I hope to get our long term future PG in the next draft, but for now, I don't know that complaining about him repeatedly helps. Obviously he is going to make mistakes and we all of course have a right to complain when he does, and he needs to work on turnovers, but it isn't for a lack of trying.

Knight is trying too. Not my favorite player by any means, but he is in a better role now and seems to be doing better. This season will likely be a tough season to watch, but I hope people can more concentrate on the positive things they see and be hopeful for the future. Because we all will be frustrated, but continuing to pile on it when there is nothing we can do to change it, can get old.

I am going to stop talking about Bledsoe and Knight now. There is nothing left to say about them. They are who they are and that is pretty much it.

[NavLDO]

It will be a lot of fun for me, it will be misery for a lot of fans. It all has to do with expectations.

All this national Booker love has some people thinking we have a Kobe in his prime and we simply don't. He is still a very young player, he might look like an all star some nights but he'll look he belongs in college the rest of the time. If you were to compare him to starting 2's around the league, he'd definitely grade out near the bottom, right now anyway. By the end of the season he should start coming closer to delivering on his incredible promise but even then he'll still be a work in progress.

Len is playing himself out of the NBA before our very eyes. Tyson is never more than a half step away from a hamstring, knee or ankle based vacation. Warren is basically a second year player that still needs a lot of grooming. Chriss is as raw as they come, Bender makes him look like a seasoned veteran. Bledsoe isn't the player he was, and the player he was, was never the player we hoped he'd become. Knight is a player that few people like when he plays well and no one likes when he doesn't. Barbosa has a little left in the tank but still has the flaws he left town with. Dudley lost it before we traded him to the Clippers and moving him to power forward does little to hide his shortcomings. On top of all this, we're staring at our 7th straight year out of the playoffs and we have a wet behind the ears head coach running the show. Some fans aren't going to take all this well.

I'll be enjoying the season though because I've already come to grips with what I believe is our current reality. Hopefully by Christmas, we'll have completely given up on the season and started playing the young guys major minutes. Dudley and Barbosa will see the court in emergency situations only. Most of Bledsoe, Knight, Chandler and Tucker will have been traded for draft picks or 23 and under prospects. And our rotation will consist of Ulis, Booker, Warren, Chriss, Bender, Len, Jones jr, Williams and a couple of D league players. Our present is still bleak but our future has a lot to look forward to. But we're going to struggle out there until we develop these kids, add another potential star from this draft (hopefully) and cash in the 2 banked first round draft picks that Miami owes us.

Besides his baby face, Booker doesn't look like he belongs in college at all. He looks like he belongs in this league. I think you are being very dramatic to illustrate a point. Also, players develop their game over the summer not over the course of the season. I doubt by the end of the season he'll start to deliver on his incredible promise, players just don't "get it" towards the end of the season. That makes no sense at all.
You mentioned earlier that we have the worst center rotation in the entire league and it isn't even close. Really? I mean really? So you're telling me you'd take whatever the Pelicans have at center than our guys? Asik who averaged 6/4, Ajinca who averaged 4/6. How about the Hornets, you'd take Roy Hibbert over Tyson Chandler? How about even the best in class Warriors, Zaza Pachulia, you'll take him?
What were you hoping from Bledsoe last year? That wasn't what we'd hope he become? 20/6/4/2 shooting 45%, 1.5 threes per game. Those are pretty stellar numbers. Near borderline all-star numbers. If he replicated those numbers this year I'd be extremely happy.
If this is how many of you are going to act when we win a game, I can't wait to see how you all react when we lose games.

Forget it, man. Every game thread this preseason has basically been:

Len sucks.
Len sucks.
Something else about the game.
Len sucks.
Something else about the game.
Len sucks.
Len sucks.
Len sucks.
Something else about the game.
Something else about the game.
Len sucks.
Len sucks.
Len sucks.
Len sucks.
Something else about the game.
Len sucks.
Len sucks.

And my favorite was this game. “Len’s stats were good, but he tripped over his shoelace 3 separate times while he was shooting and the ball accidently went in, that’s the only reason he led the team in scoring and was 2nd in TRBs because he kept getting his own missed shot rebounds.”

Freaking hilarious. Nobody hates Len more than Suns’ fans. No one thinks less of Len’s abilities than Suns’ fans. I wish McD would put Len out of his misery and trade him to another team that has a fanbase that actually knows what it means to have a crappy Center rotation. Seriously. I wish I had the time to do it, but if one was to count up every post in the 6 pre-season game threads. The count up the number of posts containing a negative comment about each player, it would look something like:

Len=60%
Knight=30%
Goodwin=25% (usually coupled with Len since same draft class)
Bledsoe=15% (often coupled with Knight about our Guard play)
Warren=15% (his shine is starting to wear off like Len’s did last year about this time; Warren will be the new Len next season)
Chandler=12%
Dudley=10%
Bender=8%
Chriss=7%
Booker=3%

Face it. The team sucks and we’ll be lucky to win 25 games this year, and it all starts with Len and Knight. Last year it was because Kieff and Knight and McD for trading away the LAL pick AND the “All-Star” Dragic…oh, and for picking that scrub named ‘Booker’ in the draft. Oops, maybe this year is Dragic’s year. The year before we were going to be the 5th/6th seed thanks to the magic trio of Dragic/Bledsoe/IT…with the Kieff Bros kicking arse, the Len/Plumlee duo at the 5, and having the LAL pick (not sure how that figured in, but just go with it)….

…and the year before we were going to be 20-62 because, well, we were 25-57 the year before and we had a new HC, GM (who was too stupid for taking Len over Noel and McLemore), and we had an unknown in Bledsoe.

Anyway, we have no idea how this year will turn out. Injuries will dictate some, but IMO, we’ll be a late lotto team, winning between 35-40 games—Len NOT sucking as bad as all the haters say, Booker NOT as good as the lovers say, and the rooks being rooks, EB missing 20-25 games, Knight and Tucker being ‘average’, and Warren developing into a 15/6/1-ish SF (face it, he’s not there to ‘assist’). That’s my take.

[thamadkant]

Magic signed Biyombo and traded for Ibaka to support Vucevic. That front court is now a balanced rotation that can adjust to many teams.



And batsmasher... Was that suppose to be sarcasm regarding Schroeder?

Because 10ppg and 6apg in 24 minutes for preparation games is not bad... Its not too good either but can be brushed off as simply him shaking the rust off before the actual season kicks off.

But they still have AGordon and just signed the ghost of Jeff Green, and both are better off playing pf (okay... Green there is debatable but still). Any balance you see in the frountcourt is just coming at the expense of their backcourt/wing. They're at least in a good position for a trade with a team like Boston.

Yeah I understand.
Vucevic is probably too traditional for what they are aiming for.

But I would rather get Biyombo from them... Someone who can be an impact player without scoring.

[thamadkant]

In the pre season Barbosa and Knight has looked like they dont want to give the ball up when they have it... Will interesting to study them in the regular season to confirm if they like pass to each other.