2016-2017 off season thread.

[Neddy]

Well as far as I'm concerned, they had to spend some money for a change. Some of it was out of necessity as Cain and Lincecum really declined much faster than they expected.

They're making crazy money in overpriced AT&T Park. For the first few years, they moaned about having to pay $25 million a year on a loan used to pay for the financing of the park.

But while they've won some rings, that raised the fans' expectations, especially with key players like Baumgardner and Posey still in their primes. It would be a missed opportunity not to try to win more while they're still under 30. The fan base would not have tolerated it if they didn't spend.

Of course they tried to go cheap with the lineup and their offense suffered as well as their relief pitching.

They also have to consider the other sports teams in the area. Warriors are winning while 49ers are a dumpster fire with a lot of cap space. Giants don't want to be lumped in with the 49ers now.

As for the Dodgers, they have a very promising player in Seager and all the prospects but the team isn't young, a lot of guys in their 30s:

http://www.spotrac.com/mlb/los-angeles-dodgers/payroll/

Kershaw is approaching 30 but still dominant. So maybe some urgency to win while he's still in his prime, especially with his salary?

true that a lot of our guys are in their 30s. but you have to also consider who's coming up just behind them.

Urias, De Leon, Bellinger, Calhoun, Stewart, Wood and Strilping, Joc, Toles, Puig, Barnes, Grandal, and of course Seager.

we are not very old. we have old guys making a huge salary, but we have better prospects just behind them at each and every postion including Corey's SS.

[Quake Griffin]

Ah true, though didn't the new regime make the trade with the Red Sox which took all those salaries?

It would be great to see if the Indians could win with a $83 million payroll.

The current ownership did while Ned Colletti was GM.
The new FO led by Andrew Friedman did not. I cannot see Andrew Friedman making such a deal.

I meant new baseball ops people by new regime but that trade did happen under the new Guggenheim ownership.

[Neddy]

AT/T just bought TWC.
Let's see now if we get our TV games back.

probably not.

Im glad i live in Oregon.

[Quake Griffin]

Well as far as I'm concerned, they had to spend some money for a change. Some of it was out of necessity as Cain and Lincecum really declined much faster than they expected.

They're making crazy money in overpriced AT&T Park. For the first few years, they moaned about having to pay $25 million a year on a loan used to pay for the financing of the park.

But while they've won some rings, that raised the fans' expectations, especially with key players like Baumgardner and Posey still in their primes. It would be a missed opportunity not to try to win more while they're still under 30. The fan base would not have tolerated it if they didn't spend.

Of course they tried to go cheap with the lineup and their offense suffered as well as their relief pitching.

They also have to consider the other sports teams in the area. Warriors are winning while 49ers are a dumpster fire with a lot of cap space. Giants don't want to be lumped in with the 49ers now.

As for the Dodgers, they have a very promising player in Seager and all the prospects but the team isn't young, a lot of guys in their 30s:

http://www.spotrac.com/mlb/los-angeles-dodgers/payroll/

Kershaw is approaching 30 but still dominant. So maybe some urgency to win while he's still in his prime, especially with his salary?

I agreed with the Giants needing to spend to close out Bum and Posey's prime years. I actually liked their lineup before Duffy went out (you can see I want to trade for Duffy ITT) along with Pence. They probably just weren't betting on the bullpen being a dumpster fire.


Our team isn't old.
Puig - 26
Pederson - 24
Seager - 22
Grandal - 28
Andrew Toles - 24
Urias - 20
Deleon - 24
Kershaw - 28
Maeda - 28
Kenley Jansen - 29

Given that we have prospects on the way, I'm not concerned about the age of the team. It will be as close to a smooth transition as it can be when guys like A-Gon and Ethier come off the books, given we have their replacements tearing up the minors.

[wco81]

I thought Puig wasn't in the long-term plans?

He looked like he was going to be a superstar starting out but now?

[Quake Griffin]

Still a good defender. Still toolsy. Still under contract and technically, not old.

I'd like him dealt because I'm tired of the on going saga and I don't want it in the Dodger's locker room anymore.
We've almost got rid of all the filth and distractions from the team. He'd be one of the last to go.

He can be a fine player somewhere else.

[Neddy]

Still a good defender. Still toolsy. Still under contract and technically, not old.

I'd like him dealt because I'm tired of the on going saga and I don't want it in the Dodger's locker room anymore.
We've almost got rid of all the filth and distractions from the team. He'd be one of the last to go.

He can be a fine player somewhere else.

I am gonna take the opposing stance. Puig seems to have matured, or at least learned to fake it. i don't think he will be that much of a distraction and even if he is, he is still the better player over Reddick and his WWE belt.

frankly, since Agave brought up about Stanton and a potential impact trade, I was thinking about the financial atrocity our neighbor just 40 miles south are in...

how about buying up Pujols' contract for trading for Mike Trout? MIke's got more than 122 million for next 4 years and 140 million for Pujols. I think we can have the Angels take Gonzo and give them Puig and Joc, even Bellinger.

buying Pujols is worth it if we can grab Trout imo.

[AGAVE]

Ownership change down here in LA over the years affected our spending and minors system. SF stayed stable in their management side to sustain the team out on the field. They are consistently competitive.
GGHeim Magic Kasten AF FZ and Co Are actively bringing back that consistency.
It just takes time to get the model corrected.

[AGAVE]

I'll assume they are attempting to spend available money on an efficient contract/player scenario.
Its quite apparent that they now choose to have controllable player/contract situations so that we aren't tied down on either scenario for the sake of injury and/or lining up another player who might be made available within a contract we have currently.
Just an expensive chess game

[Quake Griffin]

Still a good defender. Still toolsy. Still under contract and technically, not old.

I'd like him dealt because I'm tired of the on going saga and I don't want it in the Dodger's locker room anymore.
We've almost got rid of all the filth and distractions from the team. He'd be one of the last to go.

He can be a fine player somewhere else.

I am gonna take the opposing stance. Puig seems to have matured, or at least learned to fake it. i don't think he will be that much of a distraction and even if he is, he is still the better player over Reddick and his WWE belt.

frankly, since Agave brought up about Stanton and a potential impact trade, I was thinking about the financial atrocity our neighbor just 40 miles south are in...

how about buying up Pujols' contract for trading for Mike Trout? MIke's got more than 122 million for next 4 years and 140 million for Pujols. I think we can have the Angels take Gonzo and give them Puig and Joc, even Bellinger.

buying Pujols is worth it if we can grab Trout imo.

He's not worth it fam.

Theres too many variables to control with Puig:
- Good teammate/ good behavior?
- In Shape?
- Working Hammies?
- Fixing holes in swing/ pitch recognition?

It's too many to control. You know next year it is going to be SOMETHING. Even if he just whiffs 3-4 times in a row, it's going to get in the media and possibly the locker room.

Why juggle the variables?

He can take his act elsewhere and become all that he can be. I'm in no fear of him becoming a 9-10 fWAR player like Trout. I'd be shocked if he had another 5 fWAR season in his career.....

____________________________

That Mike Trout scenario is tempting as hell.

5 more years of Pujols at $24 million per.
We'd actually have Pujols under contract a year longer than Trout.

That IS the type of move that could help you compete with the Cubs roght away. We're really close to getting a lot of this money off the books man.

I'm 50/50 on it.

[Neddy]

one thing to consider, even if you want to trade Puig is that as in any business, you are better off when you buy low and sell high. Puig right now is as low as it can be in trade market value. we are better off start him next season, build up his value, then sell him high.

and that is another reason for Trout proposal. with a 9 WAR player in his prime to a team struggling with Hamilton and Pujols salaries, we can throw at them a volume of 3 WAR players who are likely to perform better sooner than later to compensate their loss with not only talent and in sheer numbers, but with cheap cheap labor.

[Neddy]

but Trout trade is really reaching for the stars and highly unlikely, knowing the jersey sales and increase in ticket revenue because of Mike along offsets his cost for Artie Moreno.

I suppose we need to set our pitching staff first before we start discussing positon player trades.

[Quake Griffin]

That's the exact same conversation we had about Puig last year and I'm not blowing ANY smoke. Literally, the thread is still on the 1st page.


viewtopic.php?f=109&t=1415664
Comments about selling low on him are on the 1st page of this thread in November of 2015.


At what point does it go from we can't sell low on Puig to he's probably just not that good?


Like I said. I don't have a problem with him fundamentally, I just want to move on from all the losers and distractions. He isn't a loser IMO but he is a distraction. I also think he can be a good trade chip in a package.

[Quake Griffin]

Ian Kinsler anybody?

RHB.
Good pop.
Good 2B defense.
Excellent postseason numbers let me know he can hit good pitching.
Should not cost a fortune.
1 year left on his deal + a team option.

If we could trot out Mark Ellis for his defense a few years ago and the same with Utley this year....we certainly can trot out an older guy with the defense and the bat.

Perfect stop gap player until we develop or draft a 2B


Puig for Kinsler.

[Quake Griffin]

Greg Holland

[Neddy]

That's the exact same conversation we had about Puig last year and I'm not blowing ANY smoke. Literally, the thread is still on the 1st page.


viewtopic.php?f=109&t=1415664
Comments about selling low on him are on the 1st page of this thread in November of 2015.


At what point does it go from we can't sell low on Puig to he's probably just not that good?


Like I said. I don't have a problem with him fundamentally, I just want to move on from all the losers and distractions. He isn't a loser IMO but he is a distraction. I also think he can be a good trade chip in a package.

well, I saw even the dodgersnation today had projected 2017 roster without Puig. they also appears to expect Kazmir to opt out, released Anderson, Utley, Blanton, JP Howell, Ruiz, and trade Puig, Baez, even Turner is on the bubble.

[Neddy]

Ian Kinsler anybody?

RHB.
Good pop.
Good 2B defense.
Excellent postseason numbers let me know he can hit good pitching.
Should not cost a fortune.
1 year left on his deal + a team option.

If we could trot out Mark Ellis for his defense a few years ago and the same with Utley this year....we certainly can trot out an older guy with the defense and the bat.

Perfect stop gap player until we develop or draft a 2B


Puig for Kinsler.

we already have our 2b of the future. it's all just a matter of how long it takes Willie Calhoun to be MLB ready. he jacked out 27 HRs in AA this year, and even as a 20 year old in around 300 at bats through 3 different levels, he has shown similar HR per at bats ratio, so I think his power is legit. one problem that doesn't help us is tho, that he is yet another left handed batsman.

I would not mind Ian Kinsler, but the Tigers are always an enigma to me. are they rebuilding or are they reloading again? they also have Justin Upton and JD Martinez patrolling the corner outfields. not sure if Puig can take over the CF from Maybin. VIctor Martinez is also very productive still and have 2 more years left. I doubt they move JD to DH. perhaps they would want a pitcher. after Verlander and Fullmer, they have a huge drop in performance... if Kazmir doesn't opt out, send him? or McCarthy? I prefer to keep and see what happens with McCarthy tho. ceilings are too high for McCarthy and Ryu, especially Ryu is dirt cheap. I would like a power RHB for sure tho. it looks like we are not getting Turner back if he is asking for anything more than a 3 year deal, but you know he is gonna get what he wants elsewhere. it would be funny if the Mets grab Turner and he immediately regresses and we sign Cespedes as Dodgersnation article suggested.

[Neddy]

if we are gonna trade Puig, I still think the best match is with the Angels. they don't have a LF still, they have unquetioned leaders of that team in Mike Scioscia, Mike Trout, and most importantly, Albert Pujols. I do think I remember an article a few years ago how Albert tried to give Puig an advice and Yasiel just brushed him off, but I bet that won't happen anymore, especially after getting humbled with AAA demotion and a trade, if in fact he does go Anaheim. problem is their roster is void of what we would want in return, and their farm is junk. that's why I proposed Trout's deal. looking at their roster, they need an OF, SP, and a replacement for Trout. what if, say, we give them Puig, McCarthy, Stewart, and Joc as his replacement in the center but don't take back Pujols but instead grab a bullpen piece with some value like Cam Bedrosian? our OF will be Toles, Trout, Ethier with Trayce as the 4th OFer to fill in all 3 positions.

[Quake Griffin]

Ian Kinsler anybody?

RHB.
Good pop.
Good 2B defense.
Excellent postseason numbers let me know he can hit good pitching.
Should not cost a fortune.
1 year left on his deal + a team option.

If we could trot out Mark Ellis for his defense a few years ago and the same with Utley this year....we certainly can trot out an older guy with the defense and the bat.

Perfect stop gap player until we develop or draft a 2B


Puig for Kinsler.

we already have our 2b of the future. it's all just a matter of how long it takes Willie Calhoun to be MLB ready. he jacked out 27 HRs in AA this year, and even as a 20 year old in around 300 at bats through 3 different levels, he has shown similar HR per at bats ratio, so I think his power is legit. one problem that doesn't help us is tho, that he is yet another left handed batsman.

I would not mind Ian Kinsler, but the Tigers are always an enigma to me. are they rebuilding or are they reloading again? they also have Justin Upton and JD Martinez patrolling the corner outfields. not sure if Puig can take over the CF from Maybin. VIctor Martinez is also very productive still and have 2 more years left. I doubt they move JD to DH. perhaps they would want a pitcher. after Verlander and Fullmer, they have a huge drop in performance... if Kazmir doesn't opt out, send him? or McCarthy? I prefer to keep and see what happens with McCarthy tho. ceilings are too high for McCarthy and Ryu, especially Ryu is dirt cheap. I would like a power RHB for sure tho. it looks like we are not getting Turner back if he is asking for anything more than a 3 year deal, but you know he is gonna get what he wants elsewhere. it would be funny if the Mets grab Turner and he immediately regresses and we sign Cespedes as Dodgersnation article suggested.

Kinsler is under contract for one more year + a team option so he wont block Willie. Willie has to get better on D for me to pencil him in as 2B of the future. Right now he's just an asset to me.

I'd totally send Kazmir.
We're in the same wavelength with McCarthy.

Brock Stewart and another arm for Kinsler?

I think we need to bring JT back.
Underneath that semi-chubby body is a man with the natural athleticism to play the middle infield. Meaning, I don't think his age is going to erode his instincts or ability at 3B. The bat goes without saying.

I haven't minded letting Kemp, Hanley, or Greinke go. I may not even mind letting Kenley go. You lose a closer to draft a position player? That could be fantastic in a way. But I don't think we could manage to lose Turner.

[Neddy]

Ian Kinsler anybody?

RHB.
Good pop.
Good 2B defense.
Excellent postseason numbers let me know he can hit good pitching.
Should not cost a fortune.
1 year left on his deal + a team option.

If we could trot out Mark Ellis for his defense a few years ago and the same with Utley this year....we certainly can trot out an older guy with the defense and the bat.

Perfect stop gap player until we develop or draft a 2B


Puig for Kinsler.

we already have our 2b of the future. it's all just a matter of how long it takes Willie Calhoun to be MLB ready. he jacked out 27 HRs in AA this year, and even as a 20 year old in around 300 at bats through 3 different levels, he has shown similar HR per at bats ratio, so I think his power is legit. one problem that doesn't help us is tho, that he is yet another left handed batsman.

I would not mind Ian Kinsler, but the Tigers are always an enigma to me. are they rebuilding or are they reloading again? they also have Justin Upton and JD Martinez patrolling the corner outfields. not sure if Puig can take over the CF from Maybin. VIctor Martinez is also very productive still and have 2 more years left. I doubt they move JD to DH. perhaps they would want a pitcher. after Verlander and Fullmer, they have a huge drop in performance... if Kazmir doesn't opt out, send him? or McCarthy? I prefer to keep and see what happens with McCarthy tho. ceilings are too high for McCarthy and Ryu, especially Ryu is dirt cheap. I would like a power RHB for sure tho. it looks like we are not getting Turner back if he is asking for anything more than a 3 year deal, but you know he is gonna get what he wants elsewhere. it would be funny if the Mets grab Turner and he immediately regresses and we sign Cespedes as Dodgersnation article suggested.

Kinsler is under contract for one more year + a team option so he wont block Willie. Willie has to get better on D for me to pencil him in as 2B of the future. Right now he's just an asset to me.

I'd totally send Kazmir.
We're in the same wavelength with McCarthy.

Brock Stewart and another arm for Kinsler?

I think we need to bring JT back.
Underneath that semi-chubby body is a man with the natural athleticism to play the middle infield. Meaning, I don't think his age is going to erode his instincts or ability at 3B. The bat goes without saying.

I haven't minded letting Kemp, Hanley, or Greinke go. I may not even mind letting Kenley go. You lose a closer to draft a position player? That could be fantastic in a way. But I don't think we could manage to lose Turner.

yeah I think McCarthy's elbow is more likely he will get his form back by 2017's opening day and his ceiling is still top 3 in the rotation type. besides we can use a RHP to still balance our Kershaw and Urias. we should also not plan for, but be ready in case Ryu is back and Kazmir opts in.

Kinsler for Stewart plus as long as Seager is our SS for the next decade, Branden Davis as their SS sucks ass with his bat. with Ian on board, I think we don't have to take a risk with Turner if he is getting something like a 4 year plus option years at 17 or more per year. we would still have Kendrick or Barnes who can play 3rd as long as Ian can replace Turner's production. the ideal situation would be if we can convince Turner to sign with similar total amount of money but at higher average per year and get him to sign a 3 year deal AND make a deal for Ian.

1. LF L Toles
2. SS L Seager
3. 3B R Turner
4. 2B R Kinsler
5. 1B L Gonzo
6. C S Grandal
7. RF L Ethier / platoon with Thompson
8. CF L Joc

of course this is still very much incomplete. signing someone like Cespedes would chance a ton of our offense and defense. I don't like having Joc bat at 8th as he needs to see fastballs. Turner with his split, makes him an essentially just another lefty batsman disguised as a RH. it may be more ideal to platoon Toles with Thompson.

so many variables....