Andrew McCeltic wrote:"subtraction by addition", yeah, nails it
You disagree?
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Andrew McCeltic wrote:"subtraction by addition", yeah, nails it
Parliament10 wrote:Andrew McCeltic wrote:"subtraction by addition", yeah, nails it
You disagree?
celticfan42487 wrote:Parliament10 wrote:Andrew McCeltic wrote:"subtraction by addition", yeah, nails it
You disagree?
Are you questioning losing Harrison Barnes for Kevin Durant making the Warriors better?
If so, then yeah I'd say any logical human would disagree.
Parliament10 wrote:celticfan42487 wrote:Parliament10 wrote:You disagree?
Are you questioning losing Harrison Barnes for Kevin Durant making the Warriors better?
If so, then yeah I'd say any logical human would disagree.
I'm saying, that this is NOT going to turn out the way that they wanted.
Many times when they build these Superteams, they don't do well right away.
I don't think that they will.
They were already returning Champions, up 3-1 in the Finals, with a 73-9 Record. -- You can't tweak it better than that.
I adamantly state, that they will Not win it this year. -- I'm doubtful, that they even make it to the Finals.
They got too greedy and Added too much, and they're going to end up with less. -- Subtraction by Addition.
Parliament10 wrote:celticfan42487 wrote:Parliament10 wrote:You disagree?
Are you questioning losing Harrison Barnes for Kevin Durant making the Warriors better?
If so, then yeah I'd say any logical human would disagree.
I'm saying, that this is NOT going to turn out the way that they wanted.
Many times when they build these Superteams, they don't do well right away.
I don't think that they will.
They were already returning Champions, up 3-1 in the Finals, with a 73-9 Record. -- You can't tweak it better than that.
I adamantly state, that they will Not win it this year. -- I'm doubtful, that they even make it to the Finals.
They got too greedy and Added too much, and they're going to end up with less. -- Subtraction by Addition.
Andrew McCeltic wrote:It's like, IDK, having a bullpen with four great closers and no middle relief guys. Too many stars, not enough planets to orbit them.
It is where Sullinger is unfortunately for him. Frankly his falling apart in the playoffs made things easier on the Celtics in letting him go and moving in a better directionWritebloc wrote:
It would be too cruel to laugh, I hate injuries for any players, but anyone should have seen this one coming down the road.
Captain_Caveman wrote:Andrew McCeltic wrote:It's like, IDK, having a bullpen with four great closers and no middle relief guys. Too many stars, not enough planets to orbit them.
Why do people always make this terrible argument? League history shows pretty conclusively that nothing trumps having the most elite talent. Could be all perimeter guys, could be all frontcourt guys, can be a mix of the two.
Warriors probably have a twice as good a chance for a title this year than the rest of the field combined, which is a pretty claim to be able to utter before a long 100-game season even starts. They won 73 games last year, have been to back-to-back Finals and have now essentially traded a broken down Bogut and Barnes -- who is a poor man's Jeff Green and not even top 20 at his position -- for a guy who might be one of the top 10-15 players ever.
In addition to the two most recent MVPs, they have two other top 15 players, who both excel at both ends of the floor without needing to have the ball inn their hands, and an elite 6th man who is also an elite defender. In addition to potentially/likely being the best offense of all time, with the most floor spacing the game has ever seen, they may also be a top 2-3 defensive team this year with the DPOY and two other guys who have a very legitimate shot at making All-Defensive teams.
Oh, and they play completely unselfishly and likely have the 2nd best coach in the league behind Popovich.
Sure, there are any number of injuries that could derail them, but come on, already.
Parliament10 wrote:celticfan42487 wrote:Parliament10 wrote:You disagree?
Are you questioning losing Harrison Barnes for Kevin Durant making the Warriors better?
If so, then yeah I'd say any logical human would disagree.
I'm saying, that this is NOT going to turn out the way that they wanted.
Many times when they build these Superteams, they don't do well right away.
I don't think that they will.
They were already returning Champions, up 3-1 in the Finals, with a 73-9 Record. -- You can't tweak it better than that.
I adamantly state, that they will Not win it this year. -- I'm doubtful, that they even make it to the Finals.
They got too greedy and Added too much, and they're going to end up with less. -- Subtraction by Addition.
Andrew McCeltic wrote:Captain_Caveman wrote:Andrew McCeltic wrote:It's like, IDK, having a bullpen with four great closers and no middle relief guys. Too many stars, not enough planets to orbit them.
Why do people always make this terrible argument? League history shows pretty conclusively that nothing trumps having the most elite talent. Could be all perimeter guys, could be all frontcourt guys, can be a mix of the two.
Warriors probably have a twice as good a chance for a title this year than the rest of the field combined, which is a pretty claim to be able to utter before a long 100-game season even starts. They won 73 games last year, have been to back-to-back Finals and have now essentially traded a broken down Bogut and Barnes -- who is a poor man's Jeff Green and not even top 20 at his position -- for a guy who might be one of the top 10-15 players ever.
In addition to the two most recent MVPs, they have two other top 15 players, who both excel at both ends of the floor without needing to have the ball inn their hands, and an elite 6th man who is also an elite defender. In addition to potentially/likely being the best offense of all time, with the most floor spacing the game has ever seen, they may also be a top 2-3 defensive team this year with the DPOY and two other guys who have a very legitimate shot at making All-Defensive teams.
Oh, and they play completely unselfishly and likely have the 2nd best coach in the league behind Popovich.
Sure, there are any number of injuries that could derail them, but come on, already.
Because basketball is a team sport, 5 guys play in a system, with one ball they have to share. You can't just load up your line-up with heavy hitters, like in baseball, and know it will work.
They're going to be very very good- they could win again. But it's not a terrible argument to say that team dynamics are very, very delicate. That's why Steve Kerr was able to take Mark Jackson's Warriors and take them to the Finals with minimal changes.
And there are cases in league history where superstar team-ups don't work. We won a couple with the Big Three, Miami won some. But there are lots of teams- the Jail Blazers, the Mavs teams that had Nash, Nowitzki, Walker, Jamison etc., where just piling talent on top doesn't work. Cleveland lost their first year, Love has been in trade rumors since he got there.. I remember the Rockets had a year or two with Hakeem, Drexler..Barkley? Pippen, too?
Pachulia is probably an upgrade over Bogut. Durant is an upgrade over Barnes. But we're already seeing gossip leaking out about Dray Green being difficult, about Klay being unhappy. It's integrating new players, distributing shots, and dealing with egos. Not clear it will work.
Captain_Caveman wrote:Andrew McCeltic wrote:Captain_Caveman wrote:
Why do people always make this terrible argument? League history shows pretty conclusively that nothing trumps having the most elite talent. Could be all perimeter guys, could be all frontcourt guys, can be a mix of the two.
Warriors probably have a twice as good a chance for a title this year than the rest of the field combined, which is a pretty claim to be able to utter before a long 100-game season even starts. They won 73 games last year, have been to back-to-back Finals and have now essentially traded a broken down Bogut and Barnes -- who is a poor man's Jeff Green and not even top 20 at his position -- for a guy who might be one of the top 10-15 players ever.
In addition to the two most recent MVPs, they have two other top 15 players, who both excel at both ends of the floor without needing to have the ball inn their hands, and an elite 6th man who is also an elite defender. In addition to potentially/likely being the best offense of all time, with the most floor spacing the game has ever seen, they may also be a top 2-3 defensive team this year with the DPOY and two other guys who have a very legitimate shot at making All-Defensive teams.
Oh, and they play completely unselfishly and likely have the 2nd best coach in the league behind Popovich.
Sure, there are any number of injuries that could derail them, but come on, already.
Because basketball is a team sport, 5 guys play in a system, with one ball they have to share. You can't just load up your line-up with heavy hitters, like in baseball, and know it will work.
They're going to be very very good- they could win again. But it's not a terrible argument to say that team dynamics are very, very delicate. That's why Steve Kerr was able to take Mark Jackson's Warriors and take them to the Finals with minimal changes.
And there are cases in league history where superstar team-ups don't work. We won a couple with the Big Three, Miami won some. But there are lots of teams- the Jail Blazers, the Mavs teams that had Nash, Nowitzki, Walker, Jamison etc., where just piling talent on top doesn't work. Cleveland lost their first year, Love has been in trade rumors since he got there.. I remember the Rockets had a year or two with Hakeem, Drexler..Barkley? Pippen, too?
Pachulia is probably an upgrade over Bogut. Durant is an upgrade over Barnes. But we're already seeing gossip leaking out about Dray Green being difficult, about Klay being unhappy. It's integrating new players, distributing shots, and dealing with egos. Not clear it will work.
You are trying way too hard. It would be like us trading Jeff Green and Tyler Zeller for Larry Bird. Or perhaps trading Ainge and Walton for Jordan in 1986. It's literally that impactful for them.
Moreover, your examples prove my point, not yours. We went from 25 wins to a title by adding KG and Ray. The Heat made the Finals in all four years that the had their big 3, winning titles in half of them. The Cavs have made the Finals in back-to-back seasons with LeBron, who could easily have had 5 rings in the last 6 seasons with healthier teammates in the Finals (rather than just 3 of them).
The Jail Blazers were pretty talented, but not overly so, and also very dependent on some very old players in Pippen and Sabonis. Still came a blown 14-pt 4th quarter away from an almost certain ring. The Dirk and Nash Mavs actually did perfectly fine until they lost to even more stacked and talented Spurs and Kings teams four years in a row. The old ass Rockets team you are referring was also built around 36yo Hakeem, 35yo Barkley and 33yo Pippen.
As to this year's Warriors, that ESPN article had nothing to do with this year's team. It was trying to hash up issues from last year's team. You should also know that Draymond was the guy who recruited KD to come there in place of Barnes and Bogut, a move which had the full support of Curry, Klay, Iggy and the rest.
Again, injuries might get them, but you are trying to make a chemistry or X and O thing out of this, and that's just nuts. This might be the 2nd best basketball team ever behind the original Dream Team.
Captain_Caveman wrote:Andrew McCeltic wrote:Captain_Caveman wrote:
Why do people always make this terrible argument? League history shows pretty conclusively that nothing trumps having the most elite talent. Could be all perimeter guys, could be all frontcourt guys, can be a mix of the two.
Warriors probably have a twice as good a chance for a title this year than the rest of the field combined, which is a pretty claim to be able to utter before a long 100-game season even starts. They won 73 games last year, have been to back-to-back Finals and have now essentially traded a broken down Bogut and Barnes -- who is a poor man's Jeff Green and not even top 20 at his position -- for a guy who might be one of the top 10-15 players ever.
In addition to the two most recent MVPs, they have two other top 15 players, who both excel at both ends of the floor without needing to have the ball inn their hands, and an elite 6th man who is also an elite defender. In addition to potentially/likely being the best offense of all time, with the most floor spacing the game has ever seen, they may also be a top 2-3 defensive team this year with the DPOY and two other guys who have a very legitimate shot at making All-Defensive teams.
Oh, and they play completely unselfishly and likely have the 2nd best coach in the league behind Popovich.
Sure, there are any number of injuries that could derail them, but come on, already.
Because basketball is a team sport, 5 guys play in a system, with one ball they have to share. You can't just load up your line-up with heavy hitters, like in baseball, and know it will work.
They're going to be very very good- they could win again. But it's not a terrible argument to say that team dynamics are very, very delicate. That's why Steve Kerr was able to take Mark Jackson's Warriors and take them to the Finals with minimal changes.
And there are cases in league history where superstar team-ups don't work. We won a couple with the Big Three, Miami won some. But there are lots of teams- the Jail Blazers, the Mavs teams that had Nash, Nowitzki, Walker, Jamison etc., where just piling talent on top doesn't work. Cleveland lost their first year, Love has been in trade rumors since he got there.. I remember the Rockets had a year or two with Hakeem, Drexler..Barkley? Pippen, too?
Pachulia is probably an upgrade over Bogut. Durant is an upgrade over Barnes. But we're already seeing gossip leaking out about Dray Green being difficult, about Klay being unhappy. It's integrating new players, distributing shots, and dealing with egos. Not clear it will work.
You are trying way too hard. It would be like us trading Jeff Green and Tyler Zeller for Larry Bird. Or perhaps trading Ainge and Walton for Jordan in 1986. It's literally that impactful for them.
Moreover, your examples prove my point, not yours. We went from 25 wins to a title by adding KG and Ray. The Heat made the Finals in all four years that the had their big 3, winning titles in half of them. The Cavs have made the Finals in back-to-back seasons with LeBron, who could easily have had 5 rings in the last 6 seasons with healthier teammates in the Finals (rather than just 3 of them).
The Jail Blazers were pretty talented, but not overly so, and also very dependent on some very old players in Pippen and Sabonis. Still came a blown 14-pt 4th quarter away from an almost certain ring. The Dirk and Nash Mavs actually did perfectly fine until they lost to even more stacked and talented Spurs and Kings teams four years in a row. The old ass Rockets team you are referring was also built around 36yo Hakeem, 35yo Barkley and 33yo Pippen.
As to this year's Warriors, that ESPN article had nothing to do with this year's team. It was trying to hash up issues from last year's team. You should also know that Draymond was the guy who recruited KD to come there in place of Barnes and Bogut, a move which had the full support of Curry, Klay, Iggy and the rest.
Again, injuries might get them, but you are trying to make a chemistry or X and O thing out of this, and that's just nuts. This might be the 2nd best basketball team ever behind the original Dream Team.
Captain_Caveman wrote:Andrew McCeltic wrote:It's like, IDK, having a bullpen with four great closers and no middle relief guys. Too many stars, not enough planets to orbit them.
Why do people always make this terrible argument? League history shows pretty conclusively that nothing trumps having the most elite talent. Could be all perimeter guys, could be all frontcourt guys, can be a mix of the two.
Warriors probably have a twice as good a chance for a title this year than the rest of the field combined, which is a pretty claim to be able to utter before a long 100-game season even starts. They won 73 games last year, have been to back-to-back Finals and have now essentially traded a broken down Bogut and Barnes -- who is a poor man's Jeff Green and not even top 20 at his position -- for a guy who might be one of the top 10-15 players ever.
In addition to the two most recent MVPs, they have two other top 15 players, who both excel at both ends of the floor without needing to have the ball inn their hands, and an elite 6th man who is also an elite defender. In addition to potentially/likely being the best offense of all time, with the most floor spacing the game has ever seen, they may also be a top 2-3 defensive team this year with the DPOY and two other guys who have a very legitimate shot at making All-Defensive teams.
Oh, and they play completely unselfishly and likely have the 2nd best coach in the league behind Popovich.
ca
Sure, there are any number of injuries that could derail them, but come on, already.
Ed Pinkney wrote:Just as a side note, without his ridiculous game against the Celtics in the Conference Finals and two of the biggest collapses in Finals history (Spurs in '13, Warriors last season), James could still be sitting on either one or possibly no titles.
sully00 wrote:Ed Pinkney wrote:Just as a side note, without his ridiculous game against the Celtics in the Conference Finals and two of the biggest collapses in Finals history (Spurs in '13, Warriors last season), James could still be sitting on either one or possibly no titles.
That is what being great is all about. I am no fan and have killed him in the past for coming up small in big moments but he is carving out a legacy.
Kevin Durant has assumed that mantle. Lebron's legacy is intact.
Captain_Caveman wrote:Andrew McCeltic wrote:It's like, IDK, having a bullpen with four great closers and no middle relief guys. Too many stars, not enough planets to orbit them.
Why do people always make this terrible argument? League history shows pretty conclusively that nothing trumps having the most elite talent. Could be all perimeter guys, could be all frontcourt guys, can be a mix of the two.
Warriors probably have a twice as good a chance for a title this year than the rest of the field combined, which is a pretty claim to be able to utter before a long 100-game season even starts. They won 73 games last year, have been to back-to-back Finals and have now essentially traded a broken down Bogut and Barnes -- who is a poor man's Jeff Green and not even top 20 at his position -- for a guy who might be one of the top 10-15 players ever.
In addition to the two most recent MVPs, they have two other top 15 players, who both excel at both ends of the floor without needing to have the ball inn their hands, and an elite 6th man who is also an elite defender. In addition to potentially/likely being the best offense of all time, with the most floor spacing the game has ever seen, they may also be a top 2-3 defensive team this year with the DPOY and two other guys who have a very legitimate shot at making All-Defensive teams.
Oh, and they play completely unselfishly and likely have the 2nd best coach in the league behind Popovich.
Sure, there are any number of injuries that could derail them, but come on, already.