Season Speculation, Trade Ideas and Discussion

[jcsunsfan]

Cousins is a great player, but I don't want another thug on the team, and I don't think that trade is enough to net him anyway. MAYBE something like Booker, Chriss and Len would, and most non Suns fans would say THAT'S not enough to get Boogie. Other teams would offer better stuff than Knight, Len, Warren and Bender.

I understand about the thug comment. But players do mature. And often a change of scenery is a perfect opportunity to make some personal changes. Not sure if Cousins is there yet, but the talent sure makes you think about it.

[letsgosuns]

Putting aside my personal bias against Cousins because I have no interest in him, I doubt the Suns have even one thing the Kings are interested in. Think about this. The Kings could have had Chriss but instead traded him to the Suns, so future/project talent is not anything they want, and the Suns do not have any picks that are guaranteed to be top-five or something like that if they wanted a top pick.

Another major point is that if the Kings are actually willing to trade Cousins, not only would they most likely want to trade him out of the Western Conference, but I would be shocked to see them trade him to a division rival. I imagine the Celtics could put together the best package of young talent and picks that would entice the Kings. That gets the Kings a big return as well as getting him out of the conference.

[MrMiyagi]

Putting aside my personal bias against Cousins because I have no interest in him, I doubt the Suns have even one thing the Kings are interested in. Think about this. The Kings could have had Chriss but instead traded him to the Suns, so future/project talent is not anything they want, and the Suns do not have any picks that are guaranteed to be top-five or something like that if they wanted a top pick.

Another major point is that if the Kings are actually willing to trade Cousins, not only would they most likely want to trade him out of the Western Conference, but I would be shocked to see them trade him to a division rival. I imagine the Celtics could put together the best package of young talent and picks that would entice the Kings. That gets the Kings a big return as well as getting him out of the conference.

Well, to be honest, I don't think the Kings even know what they want. It seems like all they want are centers, so maybe they'll go for a Chandler/Len for Cousins swap. It sounds absurd, but the Kings have an absurd front office.

[TeamTragic]

I love how everyone hated the Morris Twins yet want to roll the dice on Cousins. I'm all for taking that leap however I would offer Len/Knight/Goodwin/pick. That package should be on the table until season end.

If they say no then most likely they will get worse offers or nothing when he walks. It is up to the Kings FO if they want to take that risk. Good luck Vlade.

[lilfishi22]

I love how everyone hated the Morris Twins yet want to roll the dice on Cousins. I'm all for taking that leap however I would offer Len/Knight/Goodwin/pick. That package should be on the table until season end.

If they say no then most likely they will get worse offers or nothing when he walks. It is up to the Kings FO if they want to take that risk. Good luck Vlade.

It's exactly that. Rolling the dice. While it may have been rolling the dice trading for Mook, then trading him away, we knew what we were likely to get out of them. The gamble obviously wasn't worth the pay off since they gotten worse over time with us.

With Cousins, it's definitely rolling the dice. If we land on the wrong side of the dice, we're looking at the MoBros part 2. If we land on a good outcome, we're getting a legitimate 27/12 guy. 27 PPG, 11.5 RPG, 3.3 APG. That ain't something to scoff at. Say what you want about having good character guys but it's elite talent that takes your team to the next level. A guy like Cousins is definitely worth rolling the dice for.

[jcsunsfan]

Putting aside my personal bias against Cousins because I have no interest in him, I doubt the Suns have even one thing the Kings are interested in. Think about this. The Kings could have had Chriss but instead traded him to the Suns, so future/project talent is not anything they want, and the Suns do not have any picks that are guaranteed to be top-five or something like that if they wanted a top pick.

Another major point is that if the Kings are actually willing to trade Cousins, not only would they most likely want to trade him out of the Western Conference, but I would be shocked to see them trade him to a division rival. I imagine the Celtics could put together the best package of young talent and picks that would entice the Kings. That gets the Kings a big return as well as getting him out of the conference.

At this moment, no future pick is guaranteed top five. Not one. If the Suns trade any of their own picks, non-protected, that would be quite valuable. The Miami picks are valuable.

I am pretty sure the Suns front office has a good bead on where DMC is personality wise right now. They certainly know better than I do. If he is going to be disruptive, they will pass on him. Really, what the Suns need is a younger version of Tyson Chandler.

[MrMiyagi]

I love how everyone hated the Morris Twins yet want to roll the dice on Cousins. I'm all for taking that leap however I would offer Len/Knight/Goodwin/pick. That package should be on the table until season end.

If they say no then most likely they will get worse offers or nothing when he walks. It is up to the Kings FO if they want to take that risk. Good luck Vlade.

DeMarcus Cousins Career Average: 31.6 mpg 20.2 ppg 10.8 rpg 2.7 apg 1.4 stpg 1.2 bpg 3.4 TOpg 3.9 Fouls 46.0% FG 29.0% 3pt FG 72.8% FT on 7.2 attempts

Markieff + Marcus Morris 2014-2015: 56.7 mpg 25.7 ppg 11.0 rpg 3.9 apg 2.0 stpg .7 bpg 3.0 TOpg 5.3 Fouls 45.2% FG 34.4% 3ptFG 73.8% FT on 4.2 attempts

Cousins is one knucklehead with the production of two knuckleheads.

[Frank Lee]

.......,however I would offer Len/Knight/Goodwin/pick. That package should be on the table until season end.

That wouldn't get you Rudy Gay

Essentially Brandon Knight has very limited value in any deal. Len as well as he goes up for auction next year. And Goodwin ?

If we are going to be dealing for a legitimate starter, we have to pony up some value. That said, I don't see many likely players that would prompt McDangle to back up the truck. It's Boogie or Bust with me.... no Boog, no prob.... just keep the treads on the road and chug on commander.

[Zelaznyrules]

Kerssed, Bender is the next Dirk. You have to watch what you say around Suns fans! I'd trade both for Cousins honestly. I love me some TJ Warren, too. But DMC is the best big man in the league.


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For many of us it has far more to do with what we'd be getting back than what we'd be giving up. It isn't a given that Cousins is the best big man in the game. He's certainly up there as far as stats go but style of play, usage, personality, fit and other things come in to play too. I wouldn't hesitate to trade Booker, Bender, Chriss and the Miami picks for Karl Anthony Towns. But I wouldn't give up more than Knight, Warren (or Bender) plus a pick for Cousins. I'm sure others might frame it differently but the point is, we differ further on the value of Cousins than we do of someone like Bender. Some people think Dragan's already a bust, some think he's the next Dirk but I doubt a single one of us would hesitate to include him in a trade for Kat or a healthy Davis. I'd even give up Bender, Warren, Knight and a couple of picks for Drummond, just not DeMarcus.

[Zelaznyrules]

Putting aside my personal bias against Cousins because I have no interest in him, I doubt the Suns have even one thing the Kings are interested in. Think about this. The Kings could have had Chriss but instead traded him to the Suns, so future/project talent is not anything they want, and the Suns do not have any picks that are guaranteed to be top-five or something like that if they wanted a top pick.

Another major point is that if the Kings are actually willing to trade Cousins, not only would they most likely want to trade him out of the Western Conference, but I would be shocked to see them trade him to a division rival. I imagine the Celtics could put together the best package of young talent and picks that would entice the Kings. That gets the Kings a big return as well as getting him out of the conference.

Well, to be honest, I don't think the Kings even know what they want. It seems like all they want are centers, so maybe they'll go for a Chandler/Len for Cousins swap. It sounds absurd, but the Kings have an absurd front office.

They are but I don't think they are anywhere near that absurd. I'm sure we could put a package together that would get us into the conversation but I doubt that Chandler/Len gets us 10% of the way into a fair deal for Cousins. I don't want to pay the price that Cousins would likely cost but he's worth far more than those two pieces.

[Frank Lee]

Outside of Goodwin and his dwindling legion of good-whiners, Warren is the most over valued player on this roster.


There..... I said it

[LukasBMW]

I think we are finally rebuilding the right way with culture.

The reason the Suns were always in the playoffs under Colangelo was because he built a winning culture. Colangelo was respected and treated the players well. But he also wasn't afraid to ax a player if that player stepped out of line.

Sarver's winning years were set up by Colangelo. Once the players Colangelo brought here vanished, we became a lottery team. While Sarver has made mistakes, I think a big reason why Sarver has struggled is because the NBA has changed. Players have more control now and have bigger egos due to the dramatic increase in salaries.

So how do we become a perennial winning team today in a league full of divas? We don't have the attraction of an LA or Miami. We don't have the market of a Chicago or New York. And we also don't have any of the superfriends on our roster.

Solution: We follow the Spurs model.

The Spurs are the perfect model for how to win year after year after year. They have a great culture. They draft well. They demand fundamentals. They don't put up with headcases. They grow and keep players willing to sacrifice for the team. If they make a mistake and acquire a selfish player, they get rid of that player.

I'd be willing to take a chance on someone like Boogie to see if he can change in a positive environment, but I'm not willing to do so at the expense of trading our young players that have shown potential and more importantly, the right attitude.

Booker, Chriss, Bender, and TJ all seem to be intelligent, motivated, hard working, and willing to learn. Bender and TJ are gym rats. Booker has just enough swagger to be our future leader. Chriss seems to be super impressionable.

I'd rather see us continue to grow organically and copy the Spurs model of culture, family, and discipline. That will set us up for continued long term success.

All that said, if by mid season, we find our self in the playoff race but are just missing a key piece, I'd still be willing to take a flyer on a questionable character like Boogie, but only for the right price. If it works out, GREAT. If it doesn't work out, we need to be able to trade him and "get our money back" or worst case...let him walk and not feel too bad.

Bender/Chriss/Booker/TJ = no way.

Spare parts like Knight/Len/Tucker/Archie and maybe even draft picks...sure.

I think it is unlikely, but then again, the rumor last year was Boogie for #2 and Randle. So how would Len, Knight, Archie + a projected lottery pick or two be much worse?

[LukasBMW]

I am the one who compares Bender to Dirk so I will stand up to the playful jabs.

Players fail in this league for multiple reasons: Family distractions, drug or alcohol abuse, lack of motivation, lack of effort, bad attitude, poor worth ethic, etc.

It's never lack of talent. Everyone on this level is talented.

Bender has a looooong way to go, but the reason why I am excited about him is because all the factors point to him having success. He is not an idiot. He loves basketball. He has a solid family. He gives max effort. He is a gym rat.

With his incredibly unique skill set, I see no reason for him not to be a special player given that it seems he will put in the intangibles needed to be successful.

My biggest concern is that the Suns won't force him to develop into a 4 and won't demand he learn post/interior moves. I think he could have a hard time reaching his full potential as a 3.

But if the Suns force him to bulk up and play as a 4, he will be a stud. And a swole Bender could still play the 3 and 5 on occasion just like Dirk did.

[MrMiyagi]

Putting aside my personal bias against Cousins because I have no interest in him, I doubt the Suns have even one thing the Kings are interested in. Think about this. The Kings could have had Chriss but instead traded him to the Suns, so future/project talent is not anything they want, and the Suns do not have any picks that are guaranteed to be top-five or something like that if they wanted a top pick.

Another major point is that if the Kings are actually willing to trade Cousins, not only would they most likely want to trade him out of the Western Conference, but I would be shocked to see them trade him to a division rival. I imagine the Celtics could put together the best package of young talent and picks that would entice the Kings. That gets the Kings a big return as well as getting him out of the conference.

Well, to be honest, I don't think the Kings even know what they want. It seems like all they want are centers, so maybe they'll go for a Chandler/Len for Cousins swap. It sounds absurd, but the Kings have an absurd front office.

They are but I don't think they are anywhere near that absurd. I'm sure we could put a package together that would get us into the conversation but I doubt that Chandler/Len gets us 10% of the way into a fair deal for Cousins. I don't want to pay the price that Cousins would likely cost but he's worth far more than those two pieces.

My point wasn't to say that Chandler/Len would get us Cousins, just pointing out that the Kings are not a well run organization, so the likelihood of us landing Boogie is probably higher than you'd think, and it probably wouldn't be the deal you'd expect.

[MrMiyagi]

Outside of Goodwin and his dwindling legion of good-whiners, Warren is the most over valued player on this roster.


There..... I said it

Frank, I'm pretty sure I'm the only one who values Goodwin, so I don't know how he's an over valued player.

[AtheJ415]

I question anyone who doesn't want Cousins. I also think 2 things here matter: Vlade is downright awful as a GM, and Cousins is an FA in 2 years. It's fine to make a trade that is lopsided for him from Phoenix's perspective. If they would be willing to do Knight, Goodwin, Len, then obviously we do it. But what some would claim are reasonable offers, such as including Booker, Warren, Chriss, Bender, or the Miami picks, make no sense for Phoenix. We shouldn't be looking to make an even trade for a near FA with our cap space.

Phoenix has a lot to sell someone like Cousins if he hits FA, and I don't see the point of trading equal value for somebody only to max them out if we have the cap space to get him, and if we manage our space correctly we would. Signing him outright makes us a contender. Trading our few young and promising pieces for him and starting over by trying to build around him from scratch does absolutely nothing to move the needle. At that point you're just gambling on hitting the draft in a major way or signing a dream team in FA. We have nearly won the FA war before. In Cousins's scenario we have Bledsoe, who he knows quite well, and Booker, a player Cousins believes will be a superstar, plus a coach who players love and a lot of young pieces and picks to ensure we can reload. That ought to attract him and give us a fair shot in FA.

[TeamTragic]

I question anyone who doesn't want Cousins. I also think 2 things here matter: Vlade is downright awful as a GM, and Cousins is an FA in 2 years. It's fine to make a trade that is lopsided for him from Phoenix's perspective. If they would be willing to do Knight, Goodwin, Len, then obviously we do it. But what some would claim are reasonable offers, such as including Booker, Warren, Chriss, Bender, or the Miami picks, make no sense for Phoenix. We shouldn't be looking to make an even trade for a near FA with our cap space.

Phoenix has a lot to sell someone like Cousins if he hits FA, and I don't see the point of trading equal value for somebody only to max them out if we have the cap space to get him, and if we manage our space correctly we would. Signing him outright makes us a contender. Trading our few young and promising pieces for him and starting over by trying to build around him from scratch does absolutely nothing to move the needle. At that point you're just gambling on hitting the draft in a major way or signing a dream team in FA. We have nearly won the FA war before. In Cousins scenario we have Bledsoe, who he knows quite well, and Booker, a player Cousins believes will be a superstar, plus a coach who players love and a lot of young pieces and picks to ensure we can reload. That ought to attract him and give us a fair shot in FA.

Exactly. As I had stated we should offer Len/Knight/Goodwin/pick through season end. Since Vlade is an idiot I have no doubt he will pull the trigger to save face. If they ask for more then pull the offer and go hard after Cousins in free agency.

Even then we can do a S&T but for a much smaller package. Unfortunately I fully expect the Kings FO to keep making stupid decisions and lose Cousins for nothing.

[AtheJ415]

I am the one who compares Bender to Dirk so I will stand up to the playful jabs.

Players fail in this league for multiple reasons: Family distractions, drug or alcohol abuse, lack of motivation, lack of effort, bad attitude, poor worth ethic, etc.

It's never lack of talent. Everyone on this level is talented.

Bender has a looooong way to go, but the reason why I am excited about him is because all the factors point to him having success. He is not an idiot. He loves basketball. He has a solid family. He gives max effort. He is a gym rat.

With his incredibly unique skill set, I see no reason for him not to be a special player given that it seems he will put in the intangibles needed to be successful.

My biggest concern is that the Suns won't force him to develop into a 4 and won't demand he learn post/interior moves. I think he could have a hard time reaching his full potential as a 3.

But if the Suns force him to bulk up and play as a 4, he will be a stud. And a swole Bender could still play the 3 and 5 on occasion just like Dirk did.

I agree with the excitement, but I don't see him as Dirk. I see him as more likely to be a Kirilenko or Lamar Odom than a Dirk.

[theSUNalsoRISES]

here is an honest questions. With the way the modern game is going, is having a bonafide superstar at the center position worth the investment?.

Is it a lack of depth at the C positions or the natural way the game is heading that has made most contenders void of an stud center.
Lebron has not won a championship playing along side an all star center. The Warriors had Bogut (defensive minded, solid passing, but not an all star). Tim Duncan I felt like was more of a PF playing out of position.

Say we trade Warren/Bender/Len/knight/goodwin and a combo of picks for Cousins. Would it work?
Booker/ Cousins would draw comparison to Harden/Howard which for whatever reason just did not work. Can a remake of Kobe/ Shaq actually win a championship?.

I am of the view it won't work. I believe we may make the post season and then fizzle. In this day and age a versatile 7 footer (Bender) is more useful than a dominate center(Cousins).

[blacksun]

I am pretty sure the Suns front office has a good bead on where DMC is personality wise right now. They certainly know better than I do. If he is going to be disruptive, they will pass on him. Really, what the Suns need is a younger version of Tyson Chandler.

Thats funny, I was thinking the same thing. IMO were focusing on the wrong Kings player. Kerrsed posted a version of this on another thread, and it centered around Willie Cauley-Stein. He's young, good attitude, super agile, and could be a force on defense. If ever we give up on Len this year or the next, I think he's a good target to pursue.