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Hinkie in Hindsight?

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Re: Hinkie in Hindsight? 

Post#21 » by Ericb5 » Thu Oct 27, 2016 4:24 pm

phifans wrote:
jbent87 wrote:
phifans wrote:Hinkie did what every GM in this league dreams to do.
Keep being bad and keep tanking until you got enough high lottery talents while don't have to worry about your poor records would cost your job.
Genarally He did a great job making some trades to put this team into a better position.
He did fine in draft by strictly following the strategy of picking BPA.
I just think if you believe Hinkie lead the team into the right way then you should also give the ownership credits too since ultimately they are the one who give Hinkie permition to do what he want. And thats a kind of rare permition for a GM to get from your boss in this league.


They gave him permission to do all of that and then pulled the rug out from under him in the 11th hour due to peer pressure from Twitter and local media.


They didn't do it because of pressure from outside. They did it because they believe Hinkie has done what they asked him to do two and half years ago and they think some others may be the better candidate for the rest of work. The point is they know what they want from the very begining and they find a right guy to excecute the part one of this plan.


Not true.

Hinkie was not hired just to acquire assets. He was the GM, and he was hired to build a contender.

Whether it was outside pressure or inside cold feet, they lost their nerve, and gave up. They pulled the rug out from under him under the pretense that he was failing to accomplish something that he hadn't even started to do, which was try to win games, or improve the product currently on the floor.

He was going about his business of building a contender, and the first phase was asset acquisition. The second phase was going to start this past summer anyway, and he was not given a chance to attempt that second phase, which implies that they were unhappy with the results of the first phase in some way. The results of the first phase were beyond exceptional, so they either lost their nerve internally, or they were pressured to do it externally. Basically, once they brought in Jerry, he saw to it that they hired his son, and they made a decision that they trusted Jerry more than Sam.

I think that the owners believed in Sam completely in the beginning, and accepted his vision. Then they got nervous, and brought in another voice, and that voice had an ulterior motive. Obviously comparing Sam's resume to Jerry's resume will favor Jerry. The owners aren't basketball experts, and they just decided that they trusted Jerry more than Sam. I also think that they underestimated what kind of man that Sam was, and they figured that they could have their cake and eat it too. They thought that they could get away with emasculating him, and it turned out that they couldn't.

So Sam moves on with his balls intact, and the Sixers will move on benefiting from what he accomplished. Bryan can only screw it up, or finish what Sam started. The only way that Bryan could deserve credit for building a contender would be if he was able to get our first star through a free agent signing. Well we have two of them now from Sam, so the first star free agent that we get now(if we get one) will be joining a team with two other stars, so that would still be because of Hinkie.
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Re: Joel Embiid -- The Process is now Live 

Post#22 » by LloydFree » Thu Oct 27, 2016 4:50 pm

BullyKing wrote:
HartfordWhalers wrote:
mksp wrote:
Honestly, you shouldn't be allowed to enjoy this. Go away.


Lets not go down either of these avenues of discussion. Thanks both of you.


Putting aside the reply I kind of find it interesting that someone that was merciless with criticism of Hinkie is now saying they will win a title within 5 years because of what he did. I'm sort of interested in whether the Hinkie-haters that see the fruits of his efforts now acknowledge a change in opinion or will instead credit Colangelo somehow.

It shouldn't be about giving the proper person the credit. That guy should have the self awareness to admit he didn't know what he was talking about for the last three years, and realize you don't get a Joel Embiid without doing what the 76ers did to get him... and the Bulls did to get Jordan... and the Rockets did to get Olajuwon... and the Spurs did to get Duncan...
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Re: Hinkie in Hindsight? 

Post#23 » by the_process » Thu Oct 27, 2016 5:31 pm

The motivation to bring in Jerry that set the wheels in motion to fire Hinkie and hire Bryan, has a name: Adam Silver.

The league didn't like the bad PR Hinkie's experiment was getting, and also didn't want the rest of the league ever trying to copy it.

The conspiracy theorist in me could also tie in the fact that once they complied with the league and started to pretend to care again, they got the #1 pick.

So while ownership is spineless, an unfortunate by-product of having a group of owners instead of one single owner... they had a good reason to be spineless in this case. No doubt Silver would've punished them had they not removed Hinkie.
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Re: Hinkie in Hindsight? 

Post#24 » by BullyKing » Thu Oct 27, 2016 5:56 pm

oyoyer wrote:The motivation to bring in Jerry that set the wheels in motion to fire Hinkie and hire Bryan, has a name: Adam Silver.

The league didn't like the bad PR Hinkie's experiment was getting, and also didn't want the rest of the league ever trying to copy it.

The conspiracy theorist in me could also tie in the fact that once they complied with the league and started to pretend to care again, they got the #1 pick.

So while ownership is spineless, an unfortunate by-product of having a group of owners instead of one single owner... they had a good reason to be spineless in this case. No doubt Silver would've punished them had they not removed Hinkie.


Punish them how? Silver works for the owners not the other way around. And when he tried to punish them by changing the lottery odds, he failed.
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Re: Hinkie in Hindsight? 

Post#25 » by the_process » Thu Oct 27, 2016 6:02 pm

BullyKing wrote:
oyoyer wrote:The motivation to bring in Jerry that set the wheels in motion to fire Hinkie and hire Bryan, has a name: Adam Silver.

The league didn't like the bad PR Hinkie's experiment was getting, and also didn't want the rest of the league ever trying to copy it.

The conspiracy theorist in me could also tie in the fact that once they complied with the league and started to pretend to care again, they got the #1 pick.

So while ownership is spineless, an unfortunate by-product of having a group of owners instead of one single owner... they had a good reason to be spineless in this case. No doubt Silver would've punished them had they not removed Hinkie.


Punish them how? Silver works for the owners not the other way around. And when he tried to punish them by changing the lottery odds, he failed.


Fines? Loss of draft picks? Maybe it was just an empty 'or else' threat the Sixers caved to. I should have worded that differently. But I remain convinced Silver basically strong armed Harris et al into removing Hinkie.

Hinkie managed the end around on the league as far as lottery reform was concerned because deep down, a lot of teams know without the hope of the draft they have no shot at acquiring top tier talent.
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Re: Hinkie in Hindsight? 

Post#26 » by wickedwrister » Thu Oct 27, 2016 6:10 pm

I just want to add that I will forever love Embiid for carrying the Hinkie flag and nicknaming himself the process. Every home game with fans chanting trust the process is a nice little middle finger to our owners who let the Collangellos take over the organization.

In 3 stinking years Hinkie got us 2 potential franchise centerpieces as well as a few strong trade assets (even if those assets don't get us as much as we were initially hoping).
The feedback I've received from our fans is they understand we are trying to build something great. Good decisions come from having a broad set of options and making tough calls. We will do it unblinkingly. We have to be willing to take smart risks-Hinkie
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Re: Hinkie in Hindsight? 

Post#27 » by phiphan » Thu Oct 27, 2016 6:26 pm

Yo is this the designated NYSixersFan bashing quarantine area? Have I come to the right place? Got my pillow case filled with soap bars ready.
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Re: Hinkie in Hindsight? 

Post#28 » by Mik317 » Thu Oct 27, 2016 6:46 pm

too early for this thread
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Re: Hinkie in Hindsight? 

Post#29 » by Eyeamok » Thu Oct 27, 2016 7:04 pm

Mik317 wrote:too early for this thread


Yeah maybe but it's never to early to get a good seat in front to throw your rotten tomatoes.
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Re: Joel Embiid -- The Process is now Live 

Post#30 » by hookshot199 » Thu Oct 27, 2016 7:19 pm

phifans wrote:
Unbreakable99 wrote:
NYSixersFan wrote:

I would not say we're winning the title within 5 yrs if he was still here.....I'm also skeptical that Embiid will actually stay healthy...but let's hope...


Lol. You just don't get it. If Hinkie is never GM then we don't have either or Embiid or Simmons. Some other GM would have most likely stayed the course and we would have kept Jrue and drafted an average player in 2013. We would have been competitive enough in 2013-2014 to finish outside the top 9 and gotten another decent but not potentially great player. Then in the 2015-2016 season we wouldn't have been bad enough to pick in the top 5 because we more than likely have Jrue and the 2013 average player and 2014 average player and maybe still Evan Turner on the team and we could be picking at 7 or 8. You never get it. Hinkie got us Simmons and Embiid and picks. He wasn't going to just tank forever. He would have added pieces and we would have gotten better.


But Hinkie can't do what he did if he was not permitted by the ownership right ?



Right. And we got back the protected Orlando pick in that idiotic trade for Arnett Moultrie. He got us the Simmons, Embiid, Saric and Okafor picks. He also got us a young bench - Covington, Grant, TJ, Hollis and Holmes. And he probably got us this year's Lakers pick and certainly the 2019 unprotected Sacramento pick, the year after Cousins makes his move. And if BC hit right, he got us Luwawu and Furkan Korkmaz. Too soon, too young to tell. As for the Okafor incident, anyone who's been a parent of an 18-year-old son is likely to conclude that his two-month outburst was overblown the press and Sixers critics.
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Re: Hinkie in Hindsight? 

Post#31 » by sixers hoops » Thu Oct 27, 2016 8:54 pm

oyoyer wrote:The motivation to bring in Jerry that set the wheels in motion to fire Hinkie and hire Bryan, has a name: Adam Silver.

The league didn't like the bad PR Hinkie's experiment was getting, and also didn't want the rest of the league ever trying to copy it.

The conspiracy theorist in me could also tie in the fact that once they complied with the league and started to pretend to care again, they got the #1 pick.

So while ownership is spineless, an unfortunate by-product of having a group of owners instead of one single owner... they had a good reason to be spineless in this case. No doubt Silver would've punished them had they not removed Hinkie.


The Sixers leadership group has slowly admitted to Silver's role in Hinkie's demise.

Yesterday, Scott O'Neill rattled off our top 10 assets and proclaimed we can be great for 10 years.....but forgot to mentioned that Hinkie did a masterful job acquiring those assets. The kings pick, Lakers picks, NO trade were all great trades by Hinkie. Made some really nice draft picks.

Would he have been as great in the building phase of constructing a contending roster? I don't know, but I think he clearly earned that opportunity.
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Re: Hinkie in Hindsight? 

Post#32 » by ratrac » Thu Oct 27, 2016 8:56 pm

oyoyer wrote:The motivation to bring in Jerry that set the wheels in motion to fire Hinkie and hire Bryan, has a name: Adam Silver.

The league didn't like the bad PR Hinkie's experiment was getting, and also didn't want the rest of the league ever trying to copy it.

The conspiracy theorist in me could also tie in the fact that once they complied with the league and started to pretend to care again, they got the #1 pick.

So while ownership is spineless, an unfortunate by-product of having a group of owners instead of one single owner... they had a good reason to be spineless in this case. No doubt Silver would've punished them had they not removed Hinkie.


It's kind of ironic, but this could spin the other way and turn out as PR nightmare for Silver and the others who pushed him out. Say things will turn out great, people will start to remember how it all happened and point fingers for meddling thus creating a media narrative.
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Re: Hinkie in Hindsight? 

Post#33 » by iMoreland » Thu Oct 27, 2016 9:05 pm

Hinkie was the best thing to happen to the Sixers since AI.
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Re: Joel Embiid -- The Process is now Live 

Post#34 » by NYSixersFan » Thu Oct 27, 2016 9:37 pm

LloydFree wrote:
BullyKing wrote:
HartfordWhalers wrote:
Lets not go down either of these avenues of discussion. Thanks both of you.


Putting aside the reply I kind of find it interesting that someone that was merciless with criticism of Hinkie is now saying they will win a title within 5 years because of what he did. I'm sort of interested in whether the Hinkie-haters that see the fruits of his efforts now acknowledge a change in opinion or will instead credit Colangelo somehow.

It shouldn't be about giving the proper person the credit. That guy should have the self awareness to admit he didn't know what he was talking about for the last three years, and realize you don't get a Joel Embiid without doing what the 76ers did to get him... and the Bulls did to get Jordan... and the Rockets did to get Olajuwon... and the Spurs did to get Duncan...



Those teams tanked for 3 years?
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Re: Hinkie in Hindsight? 

Post#35 » by NYSixersFan » Thu Oct 27, 2016 9:43 pm

I really don't want to talk about Hinkie anymore, but threads like this force me to do so :)

The Hinkie supporters are so narrow minded....They refuse to admit that there is more to being a GM then just tanking...and that he failed miserably in the other areas...
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Re: Hinkie in Hindsight? 

Post#36 » by mksp » Thu Oct 27, 2016 9:47 pm

Hinkie blew the Okafor pick and as well as he did from a team building philosophy, that was an awful miss with a premium pick.

Myles Turner dropping 30/16/4 and Okafor out there missing rotations just like he did last year. SMH.
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Re: Hinkie in Hindsight? 

Post#37 » by Unbreakable99 » Thu Oct 27, 2016 10:15 pm

NYSixersFan wrote:I really don't want to talk about Hinkie anymore, but threads like this force me to do so :)

The Hinkie supporters are so narrow minded....They refuse to admit that there is more to being a GM then just tanking...and that he failed miserably in the other areas...


You still don't get it. Without Hinkie there is no Embiid or Simmons. It's very unlikely that another GM would have traded Jrue and then moved up to get Noel. You're confused.
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Re: Hinkie in Hindsight? 

Post#38 » by TTP » Thu Oct 27, 2016 10:18 pm

NYSixersFan wrote:I really don't want to talk about Hinkie anymore, but threads like this force me to do so :)

The Hinkie supporters are so narrow minded....They refuse to admit that there is more to being a GM then just tanking...and that he failed miserably in the other areas...


The bolded is a pretty comical statement.

Narrow-minded (http://www.dictionary.com/browse/narrow-minded)
1.having or showing a prejudiced mind, as persons or opinions; biased.
2.not receptive to new ideas; having a closed mind.

You're free to disagree with individual opinions but characterizing every person that supported Sam Hinkie together and judging them as narrow-minded seems to fit the definition of narrow-minded.
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Re: Hinkie in Hindsight? 

Post#39 » by Negrodamus » Thu Oct 27, 2016 10:36 pm

NYSixersFan wrote:I really don't want to talk about Hinkie anymore, but threads like this force me to do so :)

The Hinkie supporters are so narrow minded....They refuse to admit that there is more to being a GM then just tanking...and that he failed miserably in the other areas...


*than
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Re: Hinkie in Hindsight? 

Post#40 » by Mik317 » Thu Oct 27, 2016 10:40 pm

if Embiid works out, then Hinkie is validated.

Don't give me that **** that it was an easy choice because no the **** it isn't. That took balls and many GMs wouldn't have done that in the same situation.

everything else is pointless to talk about when validating "the process".
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