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The Mario Thread 2016-17

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Re: The Mario Thread 2016-17 

Post#141 » by Def Swami » Thu Oct 27, 2016 1:03 pm

pepe1991 wrote:
Def Swami wrote:
NBAchamps2017 wrote:tough to swallow but, seeing Myles Turner put up stats like 30pts 16reb, not mention how solid is Winslow and how smooth is Devin Booker; I want to :banghead:

I always thought the pick was kind of dubious with Myles Turner, who fit every thing we wanted and needed at the time, was just sitting there.


Didn't team actually wanted shooting from outside ? Having Elf, Oladipo , Gordon and Harris who couldn't do that?
Turner is C in todays NBA. So,even if you drafted him he would never get time to shine because Magic view Vučević as god :banghead:

Dude survived 3 coaches and all trades being white version of Al Jefferson.

They're going to trade him mid-season. I'm almost certain of it.
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Re: The Mario Thread 2016-17 

Post#142 » by pepe1991 » Thu Oct 27, 2016 1:28 pm

Def Swami wrote:
pepe1991 wrote:
Def Swami wrote:I always thought the pick was kind of dubious with Myles Turner, who fit every thing we wanted and needed at the time, was just sitting there.


Didn't team actually wanted shooting from outside ? Having Elf, Oladipo , Gordon and Harris who couldn't do that?
Turner is C in todays NBA. So,even if you drafted him he would never get time to shine because Magic view Vučević as god :banghead:

Dude survived 3 coaches and all trades being white version of Al Jefferson.

They're going to trade him mid-season. I'm almost certain of it.


They should. I was defending him last few years but i reached a point where i simply can't. I know Whiteside is good but he made him look like second comming of Hakeem. And man to man defense isn't even his biggest problem. It's pick&roll where both Vučević and Payton are flat out lost.

I know this is Marios topic but to right this ship you have to clean "top" of the lockerroom. Him and Ibaka just take really bad mid range shots and ,at least last night play zero defense.
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Re: The Mario Thread 2016-17 

Post#143 » by fendilim » Thu Oct 27, 2016 1:55 pm

pepe1991 wrote:
fendilim wrote:
NBAchamps2017 wrote:tough to swallow but, seeing Myles Turner put up stats like 30pts 16reb, not mention how solid is Winslow and how smooth is Devin Booker; I want to :banghead:

Seriously? We hardly even ran a good iso play for the so-called next Paul George. What more for hezonja?


Do you really belive that Turner would have freedom to play like that in Orlando? Last Magic player with that much freedom was who? T mac? Turner is C, as long as they are in love with Vučević they would never remove leash from Turner, or any other young center, or any other young player for that matter.

Watched Suns to see my guy Bender. Now you something you should know about worst runned organisation in NBA -orginal plan was to DNP 4# pick and give Chriss 7-8 min . Do you know who plays before them? Dudley and PJ Tucker. 6'7 fat guy who can't jump over phonebook and 6'6 dude . That's Suns PFs right !
Now when you know that, you should know that stats don't always tell you all. Booker did score 6 points in second quater but got frustated and pushed DMC and was benched. His defense is something else. It's hard to explain how each and every guard not named Eric Bledose on that team is awful on defense . They menaged to make Gay look like Lebron. ( 22 points, 4 blocks, 3 rebounds, efficient offense? Whaaat? ).

Now back to Miami- Magic and Winslow, and all Magic players.

WInslow played well. Do you know why? Because he has purpose on the floor defined by his coach. How many Magic players have purpose? Hezonja is there to stand in corner. That's not purpose. Gordon is there because it would look bad to not play highest draft pick from 2 years ago. That's only reason why he starts.
Somehow everything that Mario or Gordon do is viewed through a microscope and analyzed to little details. So why other Magic player don't have same treatment?
I saw Nikola Vučević through preseason and last night that got killed by each and every pick&roll, that can't box out when he should, that takes some questionable shots and that scores 18 and allows opponent to score 30 on him last night ( pretty much all Whitesdies and Dragić points were on him and Payton ).
I saw Ibaka, that team traded half of team away for- that has no offensive game whatsoever but who thinks he should be offensive option. He has most robotic, unnatural body movment i have ever seen. He can pick&pop once every few possessions. yeey, We could keep Jason Smith for that too and pay him around $15M less next year. How da F you play 36 min with zero assists? Is he really that blind?

Green ? LOOL JEFF FREAKING GREEN. To actually rebound you should actually box out dude ! 30 years old ,not knowing fundametals of basketball. And this shooting is "real" Jeff. Really low FG% 3 point percentage and efficiency in general.

What to say about Evan? When his shooting is off he shoots more. He got big money and now he will act like Harden outthere? His defense was really bad, Tyler Johnson was beating living life out of him (even Waiters... ) . 4 assists, 4 rebounds in 39 min.

Payton Is there even a point to talk about him at this point? "Pass first" PG who can't pass or shoot.

Not a single starter played less than 35 min. But heeeeeeeeeeeeey let's focus on Mario who played 14 and blame him for this fiasco ! Dude had 2 assists in 14 min, that's 2 more than ibaka in 36 min.

Biggest problem with this team is that you have 2 guys that pass to each other only (Vuc and Evan ) , that ball movment in general is bad and that nobody can hide black hole on defense named NIkola Vučević and black hole on offense named Elfrid Payton.
cill bro... all I'm saying is we didn't even give Aaron Gordon any freedom on offense, what more Hezonja???
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Re: The Mario Thread 2016-17 

Post#144 » by Def Swami » Thu Oct 27, 2016 2:03 pm

pepe1991 wrote:
Def Swami wrote:
pepe1991 wrote:
Didn't team actually wanted shooting from outside ? Having Elf, Oladipo , Gordon and Harris who couldn't do that?
Turner is C in todays NBA. So,even if you drafted him he would never get time to shine because Magic view Vučević as god :banghead:

Dude survived 3 coaches and all trades being white version of Al Jefferson.

They're going to trade him mid-season. I'm almost certain of it.


They should. I was defending him last few years but i reached a point where i simply can't. I know Whiteside is good but he made him look like second comming of Hakeem. And man to man defense isn't even his biggest problem. It's pick&roll where both Vučević and Payton are flat out lost.

I know this is Marios topic but to right this ship you have to clean "top" of the lockerroom. Him and Ibaka just take really bad mid range shots and ,at least last night play zero defense.

The problem is two-fold and has been so for the last 3 seasons. The interior offers little resistance on defense and there's scarce shooting/scoring on the perimeter. It's a recipe for mediocrity at best. So just as much as Vucevic is to blame, having a point guard that isn't a threat score efficiently is a huge problem. Give credit to Payton for his aggression last night, because we'll need it, but I think the Magic will have to use Vucevic to upgrade their perimeter scoring woes and I think it may be point guard.
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Re: The Mario Thread 2016-17 

Post#145 » by Skin » Thu Oct 27, 2016 7:11 pm

pepe1991 wrote:
Def Swami wrote:
NBAchamps2017 wrote:tough to swallow but, seeing Myles Turner put up stats like 30pts 16reb, not mention how solid is Winslow and how smooth is Devin Booker; I want to :banghead:

I always thought the pick was kind of dubious with Myles Turner, who fit every thing we wanted and needed at the time, was just sitting there.


Didn't team actually wanted shooting from outside ? Having Elf, Oladipo , Gordon and Harris who couldn't do that?
Turner is C in todays NBA. So,even if you drafted him he would never get time to shine because Magic view Vučević as god :banghead:

Dude survived 3 coaches and all trades being white version of Al Jefferson.

Vucevic is Fool's Gold. We need Biyombo back. I can't stand how soft we are.

Vuc really is a summinabitch. We could've had Turner if we didn't have goo goo eyes for Vuc. I'm still jealous at his line last night.

30 points, 16 rebounds, 4 blocks and 2 steals. 69% FG% and 1/2 from 3pt land. Turner was an easy pick. We screwed the pooch for another soft Euro.

Mario Hezonja where art thou? Messi came to watch you.
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Re: The Mario Thread 2016-17 

Post#146 » by Xatticus » Thu Oct 27, 2016 7:34 pm

Def Swami wrote:
pepe1991 wrote:
Def Swami wrote:I always thought the pick was kind of dubious with Myles Turner, who fit every thing we wanted and needed at the time, was just sitting there.


Didn't team actually wanted shooting from outside ? Having Elf, Oladipo , Gordon and Harris who couldn't do that?
Turner is C in todays NBA. So,even if you drafted him he would never get time to shine because Magic view Vučević as god :banghead:

Dude survived 3 coaches and all trades being white version of Al Jefferson.

They're going to trade him mid-season. I'm almost certain of it.


How many peanuts do you think we will get in return?
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Re: The Mario Thread 2016-17 

Post#147 » by SOUL » Thu Oct 27, 2016 7:48 pm

I don't get why we're just not using him like Korver until he can actually drive and use his athleticism.

He isn't shooting particularly well, but for spacing reasons we need him shooting threes.
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Re: The Mario Thread 2016-17 

Post#148 » by pepe1991 » Thu Oct 27, 2016 8:38 pm

Skin wrote:
pepe1991 wrote:
Def Swami wrote:I always thought the pick was kind of dubious with Myles Turner, who fit every thing we wanted and needed at the time, was just sitting there.


Didn't team actually wanted shooting from outside ? Having Elf, Oladipo , Gordon and Harris who couldn't do that?
Turner is C in todays NBA. So,even if you drafted him he would never get time to shine because Magic view Vučević as god :banghead:

Dude survived 3 coaches and all trades being white version of Al Jefferson.

Vucevic is Fool's Gold. We need Biyombo back. I can't stand how soft we are.

Vuc really is a summinabitch. We could've had Turner if we didn't have goo goo eyes for Vuc. I'm still jealous at his line last night.

30 points, 16 rebounds, 4 blocks and 2 steals. 69% FG% and 1/2 from 3pt land. Turner was an easy pick. We screwed the pooch for another soft Euro.

Mario Hezonja where art thou? Messi came to watch you.


They were never going to draft Turner. His health red flags (that can still turn out to be true ) ,his position (PF ) that happend to be same that Gordon supposed to be and their blind love of Vučević were easy indicators that he is not option.

Mario somwhere in his head figured out that less he shoots more he plays , and that's kind a leftover from Skiles. Sad leftover. Last night he was productive ( 13 min 3 reboudns 2 assists, especially compared to Ibaka and Evan ), but his shooting is still off. remember Mario from preseason last year ? He was scoring 14-15 points in preseason playing free. Than Skiles decided to put leash. And he is not same guy since than.
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Re: The Mario Thread 2016-17 

Post#149 » by axl_c_cool » Thu Oct 27, 2016 10:14 pm

We need to trade Vucevic, hopefully we stablise and his performances improve, then Vucevic and Fournier for Butler + fillers etc

Payton/DJ
Butler/
Hezonja/
Gordon/Green
Ibaka/Biz
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Re: The Mario Thread 2016-17 

Post#150 » by Skin » Thu Oct 27, 2016 11:08 pm

pepe1991 wrote:
Skin wrote:
pepe1991 wrote:
Didn't team actually wanted shooting from outside ? Having Elf, Oladipo , Gordon and Harris who couldn't do that?
Turner is C in todays NBA. So,even if you drafted him he would never get time to shine because Magic view Vučević as god :banghead:

Dude survived 3 coaches and all trades being white version of Al Jefferson.

Vucevic is Fool's Gold. We need Biyombo back. I can't stand how soft we are.

Vuc really is a summinabitch. We could've had Turner if we didn't have goo goo eyes for Vuc. I'm still jealous at his line last night.

30 points, 16 rebounds, 4 blocks and 2 steals. 69% FG% and 1/2 from 3pt land. Turner was an easy pick. We screwed the pooch for another soft Euro.

Mario Hezonja where art thou? Messi came to watch you.


They were never going to draft Turner. His health red flags (that can still turn out to be true ) ,his position (PF ) that happend to be same that Gordon supposed to be and their blind love of Vučević were easy indicators that he is not option.

Mario somwhere in his head figured out that less he shoots more he plays , and that's kind a leftover from Skiles. Sad leftover. Last night he was productive ( 13 min 3 reboudns 2 assists, especially compared to Ibaka and Evan ), but his shooting is still off. remember Mario from preseason last year ? He was scoring 14-15 points in preseason playing free. Than Skiles decided to put leash. And he is not same guy since than.

I really hate how the NBA draft pundits over analyze things and fall in love with trick ponies.... BECAUSE their opinions always spill over into mainstream and then everybody believes them. Ain't nobody ever heard of a player's draft stock falling because of the way they run. For me, Myles Turner was up there with Karl Towns before the college season began. These were real discussions here. Then Turner had a mediocre college season and folks started to pick him apart too much. Nobody should be shocked that Turner is doing so good. His size, athleticism and touch told us he had a lot going for him.

Hezonja's draft stock came in on a red rocket out of nowhere. When that happens, it's ALWAYS questionable.

I trusted Henny based off his short history of eyeing out talent like Tobe, Victor, Elf, Gordon, etc but he looks more like the muffs Henny made like Harkless and Nicholson.
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Re: The Mario Thread 2016-17 

Post#151 » by Skin » Thu Oct 27, 2016 11:09 pm

axl_c_cool wrote:We need to trade Vucevic, hopefully we stablise and his performances improve, then Vucevic and Fournier for Butler + fillers etc

Payton/DJ
Butler/
Hezonja/
Gordon/Green
Ibaka/Biz

I hear ya, but Chicago easily says no.
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Re: The Mario Thread 2016-17 

Post#152 » by axl_c_cool » Fri Oct 28, 2016 12:03 am

Skin wrote:
axl_c_cool wrote:We need to trade Vucevic, hopefully we stablise and his performances improve, then Vucevic and Fournier for Butler + fillers etc

Payton/DJ
Butler/
Hezonja/
Gordon/Green
Ibaka/Biz

I hear ya, but Chicago easily says no.



I know, I went to the ESPN Trade machine and realised we really arn't given up enough to even ask and what they'd want isn't worth giving, Butler is the kind of player we want/need. The last thought around him could be Ibaka to be honest, they need a forward and a center, that trio for Butler and Gibson could work for both teams


Payton/DJ
Butler/
Hezonja/Green
Gordon/Gibson
Biz


That's the sort of deal we might need to pull to put our assets together for a star/go to player. I can't think of anyone else outside of Cousins who'd be possibly be available. If he was then maybe Divac would be interested in Vucevic?
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Re: The Mario Thread 2016-17 

Post#153 » by PennytoShaq » Fri Oct 28, 2016 2:30 am

I refuse to believe that summer rumor we could have had Butler and didn't want to trade Oladipo. In fact, I know that is total BS since we traded him for Ibaka.

Butler was the guy I wanted and I doubt he goes anywhere now.
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Re: The Mario Thread 2016-17 

Post#154 » by axl_c_cool » Fri Oct 28, 2016 8:07 am

PennytoShaq wrote:I refuse to believe that summer rumor we could have had Butler and didn't want to trade Oladipo. In fact, I know that is total BS since we traded him for Ibaka.

Butler was the guy I wanted and I doubt he goes anywhere now.



It could have been true, remember at time we didn't have Biyombo


I really think Butler and Cousins are the most attainable. We might need to give up Vucevic, and possibly Payton

Kings need a PG

Bulls need bigs and/or interior defence and scoring


Chicago: Ibaka, Fournier, Vucevic, Meek for Butler, Lopez, Gibson




Both lineups


Payton/DJ
Butler/
Hezonja/Green
Gordon/Gibson
Biyombo/Lopez


Rondo/MCW
Wade/Meek
Fournier/McDermott
Ibaka/Mirotic
Vucevic/Portis


This trade balances both teams out a little


Sacramento: Ibaka, Vucevic, Fournier, Augustine for Cousins, Kostas, Barnes, McLemore

(I put DJ in because they want an experienced PG and are prepared to move McLemore because of his lack of experience.


Payton/Watson
Hezonja/McLemore
Gordon/Barnes
Biyombo/Green
Cousins/Kostas


DJ/Collinson
Fournier/Afflalo/Temple
Gay/Casspi
Ibaka/Skal
Vucevic/WCS


I actually think Sacramento end up in a better position than us after this trade. Nice balance in the starting 5, their bench is inexperienced though. We do get a star player in Cousins though and potentially some toughness in Barnes and McLemore's ability that maybe we can open up. Interesting deal that I'd do
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Re: The Mario Thread 2016-17 

Post#155 » by MJallday59 » Fri Oct 28, 2016 8:35 am

More likely to see;

Brandon Knight, Kosta Koufos to Orlando

Vucevic, Payton to Sacramento

Rudy Gay to Phoenix
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Re: The Mario Thread 2016-17 

Post#156 » by axl_c_cool » Fri Oct 28, 2016 9:59 am

No chance, Vucevic's value is higher than Kosta Koufos and he's on a great contract. That's going to be really appealing if we can get him playing how we know he can
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Re: The Mario Thread 2016-17 

Post#157 » by Bergmaniac » Fri Oct 28, 2016 12:56 pm

Isn't there more than enough "Vucevic sucks, let's trade him" threads without turning this one into yet another example of this?
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Re: The Mario Thread 2016-17 

Post#158 » by Magic_Kingdom » Fri Oct 28, 2016 6:18 pm

If Mario were going to be good we'd probably know by now. You could tell with Myles Turner in his rookie summer league. Same with Justise Winslow. Using the excuse that Mario is only 21 is silly. Are the other guys from his rookie class 28? Isn't Booker just 19 still?

Even if you argue that we need to be patient, which is true, you can't deny that he's been a disappointment so far. I think if everyone is going to be honest here, we all expected a little better than what he's been. And now it's Year 2 and it looks like he's regressed. Even Vogel says he's playing without confidence.

But as one of the posters said, it must be Skiles's fault. Even though his defense improved significantly under Skiles, and he looked way better and more confident last year (when he was allegedly too scared to shoot) than he looks right now.
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Re: The Mario Thread 2016-17 

Post#159 » by j-ragg » Fri Oct 28, 2016 6:41 pm

Skin wrote:
pepe1991 wrote:
Skin wrote:Vucevic is Fool's Gold. We need Biyombo back. I can't stand how soft we are.

Vuc really is a summinabitch. We could've had Turner if we didn't have goo goo eyes for Vuc. I'm still jealous at his line last night.

30 points, 16 rebounds, 4 blocks and 2 steals. 69% FG% and 1/2 from 3pt land. Turner was an easy pick. We screwed the pooch for another soft Euro.

Mario Hezonja where art thou? Messi came to watch you.


They were never going to draft Turner. His health red flags (that can still turn out to be true ) ,his position (PF ) that happend to be same that Gordon supposed to be and their blind love of Vučević were easy indicators that he is not option.

Mario somwhere in his head figured out that less he shoots more he plays , and that's kind a leftover from Skiles. Sad leftover. Last night he was productive ( 13 min 3 reboudns 2 assists, especially compared to Ibaka and Evan ), but his shooting is still off. remember Mario from preseason last year ? He was scoring 14-15 points in preseason playing free. Than Skiles decided to put leash. And he is not same guy since than.
Hezonja's draft stock came in on a red rocket out of nowhere. When that happens, it's ALWAYS questionable.

I agree with most of your stuff but Hezonja has been on the NBA radar since he was barely a teenager. This wasn't one of those Tyrus Thomas or even like an Elfrid Payton situation where a guy just wows people right before the draft or in the NCAA tournament and becomes a lotto pick. Or maybe I wasn't understanding you right, cus I definitely do agree that those types of players are big question marks to me.
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Re: The Mario Thread 2016-17 

Post#160 » by Skin » Sat Oct 29, 2016 4:47 am

j-ragg wrote:
Skin wrote:
pepe1991 wrote:
They were never going to draft Turner. His health red flags (that can still turn out to be true ) ,his position (PF ) that happend to be same that Gordon supposed to be and their blind love of Vučević were easy indicators that he is not option.

Mario somwhere in his head figured out that less he shoots more he plays , and that's kind a leftover from Skiles. Sad leftover. Last night he was productive ( 13 min 3 reboudns 2 assists, especially compared to Ibaka and Evan ), but his shooting is still off. remember Mario from preseason last year ? He was scoring 14-15 points in preseason playing free. Than Skiles decided to put leash. And he is not same guy since than.
Hezonja's draft stock came in on a red rocket out of nowhere. When that happens, it's ALWAYS questionable.

I agree with most of your stuff but Hezonja has been on the NBA radar since he was barely a teenager. This wasn't one of those Tyrus Thomas or even like an Elfrid Payton situation where a guy just wows people right before the draft or in the NCAA tournament and becomes a lotto pick. Or maybe I wasn't understanding you right, cus I definitely do agree that those types of players are big question marks to me.

Being on the radar is one thing... being picked in the Top 5 is another... Maybe he didn't "sky rocket" but he definitely soared up from somewhere. I think pick 5 was the highest he would've ever been considered. Sucks, but I admit I have a negative bias behind him since I wanted a big man.

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