Season Opener: Nets @ Boston - Wednesday, 7:30pm YES Network

[Pistolpete1947]

I watched Whitehead in summer league and preseason and he was pretty bad as a point guard. He couldn't run the offense well, got stripped by opposing point guards and didn't shoot well. Vasquez on the other hand sometimes runs the offense well (8 assists vs Knicks) but is very slow and can't defend. I think the best bet for now is to play Foye as the backup point guard. I don't think Atkinson is ready to give up on Vasquez yet though. Backup point guard is liking like a real problem right now.

[Curns13]

another thing not discussed is how eratic RHJ was offensively at times. its all well and good in preseason. but in real games he cant be trying to force drives to the hoop. lots of fumbling the ball, a turnover, head down when dribbling.... i like aggressiveness early offense or on the break but not so much in the half court

No need to worry about RHJ. Only 30 pro games. The kid is a gem!

[TTNN]

another thing not discussed is how eratic RHJ was offensively at times. its all well and good in preseason. but in real games he can't be trying to force drives to the hoop. lots of fumbling the ball, a turnover, head down when dribbling.... i like aggressiveness early offense or on the break but not so much in the half court

I'm more concerned about RHJ's defense, though. He gambled a lot, and not playing defense within the system, he would jump out of the position to help defense and totally lost his own man, caused his teammates to rotate unnecessarily, his defense is really not disciplined, and his defense would break the string the whole team needs to be on, I really don't like it.

Overall, I just feel he is trying too hard to do things out of himself, and of course, he was featured during the preseason, I just hope he doesn't feel he has to do more on the offensive end and start to slipping in the defensive end.

[ChokeFasncists]

kenny atkinson said he will keep in mind the effort of whitehead and cmac so hopefully if vasquez and scola continue their lousy play that they will get some minutes.

Those were invaluable minutes. Wasn't the main knock on CMC his motivation? Not anymore.

Whitehead would take a long time to get facilitating and shot selection in this league. Hustle and D he's got a chance.

Whitehead should be a huge improvement on Vasquez based on quickness and athletism..I wouldn't want to play whitehead more than 15 minutes tho but you at least get a young legs that would hustle and have more foot speed to run fast-break and defend..Vasquez slows the team pace down and since we want to keep the pace, we have to replace him with younger legs.

TBF, Smart was injured and Vasq had to chase around IT before KA put SKil on him.

Next game it's gonna be Stucky and Miles, much better for him.

He should not be guarding PGs right now.

Foye being back should make things a bit different.

[ChokeFasncists]

another thing not discussed is how eratic RHJ was offensively at times. its all well and good in preseason. but in real games he can't be trying to force drives to the hoop. lots of fumbling the ball, a turnover, head down when dribbling.... i like aggressiveness early offense or on the break but not so much in the half court

I'm more concerned about RHJ's defense, though. He gambled a lot, and not playing defense within the system, he would jump out of the position to help defense and totally lost his own man, caused his teammates to rotate unnecessarily, his defense is really not disciplined, and his defense would break the string the whole team needs to be on, I really don't like it.

Overall, I just feel he is trying too hard to do things out of himself, and of course, he was featured during the preseason, I just hope he doesn't feel he has to do more on the offensive end and start to slipping in the defensive end.

It's gonna take time, he is essentially still a rookie after missing so much time last season.

[Tracymcgoaty]

We're just trying to discuss basketball here. Let's have a little respect for other human beings and their opinions.

He's coming here and spouting off trash. I asked twice for him to detail what the Nets did prior to signing the players he's badmouthing. He avoided the question both times. So his only intent here is to troll this board....which isn't worthy of respect.

between ignorance and trolls what was a great game thread has turned into trash. so much to discuss from last nights game but its all "lin is to blame/lin was good" and bashing atkinson/scola/GV after 1 game because people have this unrealistic view we are some decent team

Who in their right mind would look at this squad thinking hey it's a decent team...this is literally as bad as it gets kinda but the team has heart and that can win some games here and there.

[Lorenzomax7]

I have been watching Lin for many seasons. He knows, you know, and I know every team wants to stop his penetration.

So what does he do? The predictable thing of driving into 2 guys.

He needs to put up or shut up with his jump shot because this team lacks talent and real floor spacing and athletic bigs to give Lin space to drive or exploit the traps. He had that luxury in Charlotte with much better players who were more mobile and played tougher.

He waits till the end of the 3rd quarter to get rolling when it's too little too late & gets subbed out anyways.

I'm a huge fan but he's still unproven to all the nonbelievers and haters and to this new team. He has to play beyond reasonable expectations to get his due. I know he'll play well at some point, but his time is now. He's got his team where he's starting. He needs to deliver.

Maybe the starters are a toxic mix but they've come out flat every game to start things off even against Detroit. Lin can blame himself but its either him or the wrong mix is starting. This is where Lin's relationship with Kenny needs to pay off where they can speak candidly and sooner the better.

Lin can help himself and this team by coming out in attack mode and el fuego and start games off right. The team needs it.
He should be doing what he did in the third quarter in the first quarter. He doesn't have time to sit and wait around on this team. He's a tempo setter.

GoodDayLa you are just setting a high bar of standard for Jeremy Lin to lose.

Look, you are basically asking Lin to be LeBron against one of the top defense in the league. You are worse than those haters here.

Lin scored 7 pts off 11 drives this game which is pretty solid. He is not a chucker and probably never will be, he will only score when the chance comes to him. If you are not that satisfied, I suggest you to follow someone like Damian Lillard, just give up on Lin PLEASE. You are so annoying to me already. The overreaction form you is ridiculous.

Lin will eventually play very well. I just hope it's sometime in November and not March when it's too little too late. This team deserves 10 games till someone like me criticizes. I'll trust "the process"

I mean, stop acting like you are foreseeing. You aren't better than anyone here.

[gafun]

Only one L game, there is no reason to be panic. A rookie main coach trying to setting new offense style predicted bottom team with many last year bench players including Lin to compete a predicted top 4 east team, what do you expect? I do not agree that Lin should attack rim more if he cannot help others to build spacing and get everyone involved.


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[ncnetsfan]

The biggest thing I take out of the first game is that Hamilton and Harris appear to be legit NBA rotation players. That's good news.

For those upset with the loss, get used to it. It's a rebuilding year.

[Keith Van Horn]

Finally!!!

Brook > Horford
Booker > Johnson
RHJ < Crowder
SG <<< Bradley
Lin > IT

Bogs > whoever sixth man
Kenny < Stevens

Not bad, we have a chance.

Brook is maybe = Horford, at best.

and IT >>> Lin. don't know what planet you're living on.

Lets see if you want to double down on your comment after tonight's play, or at least concede that we who are confident Lin is better than IT are at least on the same planet. Come back here after the game and lets compare their play.

If I was here posting during the game I would have gladly doubled down lol.

Forgot to come back yesterday after the game to see what people were saying about it too. All in all, I was impressed with the effort, fight, and resolve at the end of the game. Some positives to walk away with but a lot of things to worry about too.

Now for the record.... I don't want to come off as I don't like Lin, I think he's great, even better than what we've had in a LONG time, but let's be real. Take off the homer goggles.

And I was right:

-Lin - 18 points, 3 assists, 3 rebounds, 0 steals, 2 TOs, -3 +/-

-Thomas - 25 points, 9 assists, 6 rebounds,2 steals, 3 TOs, +15 +/-

[ChokeFasncists]

Brook is maybe = Horford, at best.

and IT >>> Lin. don't know what planet you're living on.

Lets see if you want to double down on your comment after tonight's play, or at least concede that we who are confident Lin is better than IT are at least on the same planet. Come back here after the game and lets compare their play.

If I was here posting during the game I would have gladly doubled down lol.

Forgot to come back yesterday after the game to see what people were saying about it too. All in all, I was impressed with the effort, fight, and resolve at the end of the game. Some positives to walk away with but a lot of things to worry about too.

Now for the record.... I don't want to come off as I don't like Lin, I think he's great, even better than what we've had in a LONG time, but let's be real. Take off the homer goggles.

And I was right:

-Lin - 18 points, 3 assists, 3 rebounds, 0 steals, 2 TOs, -3 +/-

-Thomas - 25 points, 9 assists, 6 rebounds,2 steals, 3 TOs, +15 +/-

Well, TBF, Lin's usually played IT to a draw on offense and since he's not undersized, got the upperhand overall.

It wasn't supposed to be a prediction of stats. One must keep in mind that the Celtics play great D and the Nets not so much. They had Bradley who was one of the best defenders in the league guarding Lin along with double teams, shot blockers and zone defense. OTOH, we had RHJ, a rookie oversized to guard him, along with Brook who sagged off after their picks and bogs who got switched on him. Worse of all was that after both teams had their bench come in, since their 2nd point guard Smart was injured, they had IT come back out with Vasq guarding him. That was ugly. Seriously. SKil was a little better later but still. Their team is ready contend from day 1 while ours is still in preseason mode.

I can understand that you believe IT is better than Lin but it's certainly not obvious or totally for sure.

[Pistolpete1947]

Lets see if you want to double down on your comment after tonight's play, or at least concede that we who are confident Lin is better than IT are at least on the same planet. Come back here after the game and lets compare their play.

If I was here posting during the game I would have gladly doubled down lol.

Forgot to come back yesterday after the game to see what people were saying about it too. All in all, I was impressed with the effort, fight, and resolve at the end of the game. Some positives to walk away with but a lot of things to worry about too.

Now for the record.... I don't want to come off as I don't like Lin, I think he's great, even better than what we've had in a LONG time, but let's be real. Take off the homer goggles.

And I was right:

-Lin - 18 points, 3 assists, 3 rebounds, 0 steals, 2 TOs, -3 +/-

-Thomas - 25 points, 9 assists, 6 rebounds,2 steals, 3 TOs, +15 +/-

Well, TBF, Lin's usually played IT to a draw on offense and since he's not undersized, got the upperhand overall.

It wasn't supposed to be a prediction of stats. One must keep in mind that the Celtics play great D and the Nets not so much. They had Bradley who was one of the best defenders in the league guarding Lin along with double teams, shot blockers and zone defense. OTOH, we had RHJ, a rookie oversized to guard him, along with Brook who sagged off after their picks and bogs who got switched on him. Worse of all was that after both teams had their bench come in, since their 2nd point guard Smart was injured, they had IT come back out with Vasq guarding him. That was ugly. Seriously. SKil was a little better later but still. Their team is ready contend from day 1 while ours is still in preseason mode.

I can understand that you believe IT is better than Lin but it's certainly not obvious or totally for sure.

Good reply. Stats don't tell the whole story. Were we double teaming IT all game? Why on earth was RHJ guarding IT anyhow? Lin was doing just fine.

[gafun]

IT vs LIN? winning take cares everything. I do not know Nets should be ranked as the bottom, but it cannot be better than the bottom 5 on paper (stats) for now. Our players, team and coach should be evaluated based on the improvement AFTER 15-20 games when some on court chemistry is built.

If i can see Brook gets 15 pts tonight and 20 pts by next Friday , I would be very happy. Nets cannot win more than 20.5 games without Brook's key contributions.

Ideally, Brook 18/10/2blk, Lin 15/8/3stl, Booker (10/8/2blk), RHJ (15/5), SG (15/3/3). Brook cannot get many rebounds if he keeps shooting 3s. Harris 10, Justin 10, others combined 15-20. We got 108-113?

[Prokorov]

IT vs LIN? winning take cares everything. I do not know Nets should be ranked as the bottom, but it cannot be better than the bottom 5 on paper (stats) for now. Our players, team and coach should be evaluated based on the improvement AFTER 15-20 games when some on court chemistry is built.

If i can see Brook gets 15 pts tonight and 20 pts by next Friday , I would be very happy. Nets cannot win more than 20.5 games without Brook's key contributions.

Ideally, Brook 18/10/2blk, Lin 15/8/3stl, Booker (10/8/2blk), RHJ (15/5), SG (15/3/3). Brook cannot get many rebounds if he keeps shooting 3s. Harris 10, Justin 10, others combined 15-20. We got 108-113?

if RHJ is scoring 15 a game we are in trouble... it means he is getting too much volume and/or others are not getting it done.

offensive wed. was great. its defense we need to worry about

[GoodDayLa]

GoodDayLa you are just setting a high bar of standard for Jeremy Lin to lose.

Look, you are basically asking Lin to be LeBron against one of the top defense in the league. You are worse than those haters here.

Lin scored 7 pts off 11 drives this game which is pretty solid. He is not a chucker and probably never will be, he will only score when the chance comes to him. If you are not that satisfied, I suggest you to follow someone like Damian Lillard, just give up on Lin PLEASE. You are so annoying to me already. The overreaction form you is ridiculous.

Lin will eventually play very well. I just hope it's sometime in November and not March when it's too little too late. This team deserves 10 games till someone like me criticizes. I'll trust "the process"

I mean, stop acting like you are foreseeing. You aren't better than anyone here.

the only one acting that way here seems to be you.

[Yit]

hey folks,

let's calm down a bit, it's the first game, I think the boys did pretty good at giving the Celtics a scare at the end.

But here's how I am tracking our team performance (for reference I throw in figures for the opposing team as well).

I am using something I call Game-Contribution-Points (GCP) - the details on how to calculate is a bit lengthy pm if you want some further details but essentially it's a composite score from the Boxscore - it's not quite the same as the PER but I think it's fair thus far (well at least for me):

Here are our players GCP:
Hamilton - 39
Bogdanovic - 36
Booker - 25
Lin - 24
Harris - 23
(Players 20 and above are considered doing good)
Kilpatrick - 19
Scola - 11
(players 10-19 are considered average)
RHJ - 7
Lopez - 7
Vasquez - 4
Whitehead - 0
(Playes below 10 need to buck up or are developing)

Let's hope for better performances from Lopez and RHJ for the following games.

The scores for opposing team are:
I.Tho - 45
J.Cro - 37
T.Zel - 32
A.Bra - 30
A.Hor - 27
J.Bro - 18
A.Joh- 17
G.Gre - 17
T.Roz - 11
J.Jer - 9

It's evident why we lost, but what I found interesting is if I take the average of the top 5 players from each team,
Nets = (39 + 36 + 25 + 24 + 23)/5 = 29
Celtics = (45 + 37 + 32 + 30 + 27)/5 = 34
The difference between the teams was 34-29 = 5 (which coincidentally tallies with the final score difference of 122-117 = 5)
Will track this to see if it becomes a pattern over the next few games - could prove useful for people trying to gauge the game score differentials.

i cant say ive taken and in depth look into your scoring system.... but i have to question a system that awards whitehead a ZERO when he was a +14 in a game we lost by 5 and an integral part of us coming back from down 20.

i mean, he only played a few minutes but a zero?

Hi prokorov, you are correct that there would be need to improve the computation, I spotted an error (forgot to take away the division by zero error in Whitehead stats (as he did not shoot anything) - discounting the shooting score - the re-computed GCP value for him was in fact 2.

I am still considering on adding the +/- data column into the GCP computations (still thinking about how to do so, One way of doing so is mainly as a moderating bonus/substraction to the GCP - i.e. if we look at the our players for this game the GCP (moderated with +/- bonus/demerit (essentially using their +/- value divided by 5).

Would result in: (I had also missed out CMc's scores earlier apologies)

Hamilton - 39 + 0 = 39
Bogdanovic - 36 + 0.2 = 36
Booker - 25 + 1 = 26
Lin - 24 - 0.6 = 23
Harris - 23 + 0.6 = 24
Kilpatrick - 19 - 1.4 = 18
Scola - 11 - 3.8 = 7
RHJ - 7 - 1.8 = 5
Lopez - 7 - 2 = 5
CMc = 5 + 2.8 = 8
Vasquez - 4 - 2.6 = 1
Whitehead - 2 + 2.4 = 4

Had also worked on something called Offensive and Defensive effort (although I don't quite like the defense computation as someone has noted the Boxscore raw stats under-reports the defensive elements - still thinking about incorporating poor opponent scores but hard to quite compute as game play isn't always 1-on-1).

Anyways for this game:
Best Offensive effort goes to: Hamilton (13)
Best Defensive effort goes to: Harris (10)