The (Where Ainges Fear to) Trade Thread, 2016-17 (1.0)

[Tiny ball]

Honestly, we could get Davis. Three-team deal with Aldridge to NOP? We have multiple future 1sts, Rozier or Smart, Young, Jerebeko/Amir, Zeller's expiring in January- I'd give up any and all of the above. Just has to materialize, Davis has to send out some smoke signals, New Orleans has to decide now.

Even on NBA TV they were joking about his big game and how many games he might play or not play this year.. When the people on NBA TV are joking about him and his health after scoring like 50 points something is up with him it would seem?

Draft someone healthy? Might be best way to win for decade?

[Darth Celtic]

they don't have to decide now. He is under contract for 3 more years. If he did want out, and they did want to start over. Heath issues or not, i'd give up everything for him. Zeller (salary), Jonas (salary), rozier, young, nets 17 pick, nets 18 pick, clippers 19 pick, griz 19 pick, and our pick in 19 for him.

[Curmudgeon]

I predict that Davis will be a KG-type situation. He's relatively young and idealistic now, but in 2 years he may be tired of the losing and want out. And NO will have to consider trade offers or risk losing him for nothing in free agency.

At that point the Brooklyn picks will have been made so the quality of Ainge's drafting will determine whether or not the Celtics have enough assets to interest the Pelicans.

[Disinformation]

They've got Hield, Evans, Jrue.. They have had talent the last couple of years, just a bad mix of it, bad coaching, and injuries..

Nah, I don't see it that way. If Jrue Holiday and Tyreke Evans are your 2nd and 3rd best player and you have barely any actual NBA talent on the team after them, you're in trouble. Hield has potential but isn't going to help in the short term and is probably going to be a one dimensional role player (granted a valuable one as a scorer) in the long run. Bringing in Aldridge to replace Davis while you simultaneously add a bunch of picks and young players that aren't going to help you any time soon makes no sense. If they trade Davis (big if any time soon) they'd be much better off going all in on a youth movement.

[Andrew McCeltic]

They've got Hield, Evans, Jrue.. They have had talent the last couple of years, just a bad mix of it, bad coaching, and injuries..

Nah, I don't see it that way. If Jrue Holiday and Tyreke Evans are your 2nd and 3rd best player and you have barely any actual NBA talent on the team after them, you're in trouble. Hield has potential but isn't going to help in the short term and is probably going to be a one dimensional role player (granted a valuable one as a scorer) in the long run. Bringing in Aldridge to replace Davis while you simultaneously add a bunch of picks and young players that aren't going to help you any time soon makes no sense. If they trade Davis (big if any time soon) they'd be much better off going all in on a youth movement.

Remember, though, I think it was Demps as acting GM who tried to trade Chris Paul for a bunch of vets.

Rozier, Olynyk, Amir, BKN 18 to the Spurs, Aldridge, BKN 17 to NOP, who says no?

Jrue, Hield, Evans, Aldridge, Asik, top 5 pick in NOP is a nice swerve..

There's a lot of ways for the Pelicans to play it...

[Disinformation]

They've got Hield, Evans, Jrue.. They have had talent the last couple of years, just a bad mix of it, bad coaching, and injuries..

Nah, I don't see it that way. If Jrue Holiday and Tyreke Evans are your 2nd and 3rd best player and you have barely any actual NBA talent on the team after them, you're in trouble. Hield has potential but isn't going to help in the short term and is probably going to be a one dimensional role player (granted a valuable one as a scorer) in the long run. Bringing in Aldridge to replace Davis while you simultaneously add a bunch of picks and young players that aren't going to help you any time soon makes no sense. If they trade Davis (big if any time soon) they'd be much better off going all in on a youth movement.

Remember, though, I think it was Demps as acting GM who tried to trade Chris Paul for a bunch of vets.

Rozier, Olynyk, Amir, BKN 18 to the Spurs, Aldridge, BKN 17 to NOP, who says no?

Jrue, Hield, Evans, Aldridge, Asik, top 5 pick in NOP is a nice swerve..

There's a lot of ways for the Pelicans to play it...

Haven't the people of New Orleans suffered enough? They deserve better than that.

[Ducklett]

Hi guys, Magic fan here.

I saw that you guys were fans of Vouch, which is understandable. He does a lot of things well: rebounding, mid-range shooting, post moves, footwork, passing in an inside-out game. He does some things less well like defense and drawing fouls (his defense isn't as awful as most of the Magic community would leave you to believe, but is definitely worse than average).

I was curious as to what your thoughts were on him and what you would trade for him. We don't need cap space because we have a ton of it next off season (most of our deals this summer outside of Biz were for expiring and 1 year deals) and I don't expect that you guys would give up core members of your team nor Nets picks unless they turn it around and start winning every game for the next few weeks. It seems like you guys have a decent amount of less valuable picks and players and we have all of our future picks to trade and the LAL '19 unprotected 1st if you were trying to move up to get one of your more valuable assets.

Happy to see what you guys have to say and have a good one.

[Ed Pinkney]

Hi guys, Magic fan here.

I saw that you guys were fans of Vouch, which is understandable. He does a lot of things well: rebounding, mid-range shooting, post moves, footwork, passing in an inside-out game. He does some things less well like defense and drawing fouls (his defense isn't as awful as most of the Magic community would leave you to believe, but is definitely worse than average).

I was curious as to what your thoughts were on him and what you would trade for him. We don't need cap space because we have a ton of it next off season (most of our deals this summer outside of Biz were for expiring and 1 year deals) and I don't expect that you guys would give up core members of your team nor Nets picks unless they turn it around and start winning every game for the next few weeks. It seems like you guys have a decent amount of less valuable picks and players and we have all of our future picks to trade and the LAL '19 unprotected 1st if you were trying to move up to get one of your more valuable assets.

Happy to see what you guys have to say and have a good one.

Assuming they decide that Ibaka and Gordon are their front court moving forward for the next few seasons, what do Magic fans see as Vucevic's worth being? Is a young player or two and some late first rounders going to get it done?

Personally I would say take your pick out of Zeller, Jerebko, Young, Mickey, Jackson, maybe Olynyk or Rozier and any non-Nets first rounder and any second rounder you want. Not sure if the Celtics scraps are going to get it done for a solid player like him though unfortunately.

[Andrew McCeltic]

Hi guys, Magic fan here.

I saw that you guys were fans of Vouch, which is understandable. He does a lot of things well: rebounding, mid-range shooting, post moves, footwork, passing in an inside-out game. He does some things less well like defense and drawing fouls (his defense isn't as awful as most of the Magic community would leave you to believe, but is definitely worse than average).

I was curious as to what your thoughts were on him and what you would trade for him. We don't need cap space because we have a ton of it next off season (most of our deals this summer outside of Biz were for expiring and 1 year deals) and I don't expect that you guys would give up core members of your team nor Nets picks unless they turn it around and start winning every game for the next few weeks. It seems like you guys have a decent amount of less valuable picks and players and we have all of our future picks to trade and the LAL '19 unprotected 1st if you were trying to move up to get one of your more valuable assets.

Happy to see what you guys have to say and have a good one.

I love Vucevic but I'm not sure if we want to take on his bad defense. I'd say Zeller/Jerebko to match salary, then maybe one or two of those future 1sts, or someone like Young or Olynyk. But it depends on whether we want to use up our cap space now by trading expiring contracts for salary. I think we should, but I don't know if that's the course the front office will take. And having 'max cap space' gives a lot of leverage in the summer, it keeps the team's profile high.

[Andrew McCeltic]

I could also see a three-team deal where Vuc goes somewhere else (Sacramento?) and Boston gets a star big (Cousins), but IDK if Orlando would be willing to play ball on something like that.

[Curmudgeon]

Vucevic doesn't move the needle. I'd rather have Biyombo.

[cl2117]

Vucevic would be a big help on the boards and with his offense I think Boston would be scoring 100+ every game.

The problem for me is twofold: 1) his defense 2) his contract.

I think Vuc would mesh really well with the offense based on his style, but he's going to give a lot back on the other end and this team already lacks the kind of rim protection that fits best next to him. That being said his defensive rebounding would go a long way to help out given how bad we've been on that end. His contract is actually solid in comparison to what was handed out this summer, but the big problem is that having 3 years left on his deal would mean we'd need to make moves to open up max cap space (as opposed to now, where we can just waive guys). I think that's what would stop me from chasing him. It's just that I think the organization is looking for a bigger fish and this would complicate one of the most likely avenues to grabbing one.

That being said that would just stop me from actually giving up a ton of value for him, since I wouldn't want to trade for him and then potentially be trying to deal him (possibly at a discount) to be able to get the real upgrade we're looking for, but I'd still be happy to make an offer if Orlando was selling.

If it only cost me non-BKN draft picks to upgrade from Zeller to Vucevic right now? I'd be very interested. Maybe Zeller, Young, LAC 2019 first, Minnesota 2017 2nd? I don't know if that's in the ball-park for the Magic, but that's the type of value I'd be willing to give up.

It's not my favorite idea as there are a number of guys I'd rather chase who'd be cheaper (Bogut, Ed Davis, Richaun Holmes), but I think it could be worthwhile since it makes us better now and he's moveable on that deal in case you get an opportunity to go big.

[Banks2Pierce]

If it only cost me non-BKN draft picks to upgrade from Zeller to Vucevic right now? I'd be very interested. Maybe Zeller, Young, LAC 2019 first, Minnesota 2017 2nd? I don't know if that's in the ball-park for the Magic, but that's the type of value I'd be willing to give up.

Doubt that gets him because the Orlando GM is getting axed if they don't make the playoffs this season. Our win now players are too good for Vuc and the assets we'd part with are too far out into the future for Orlando's timeline.

[aim2please]

Vucevic doesn't move the needle. I'd rather have Biyombo.

This pretty much sums it up. We don't need Monroe/Vucevic type. We need Biyombo/Adams/Gobert/Noel type center. Basically, we need a healthier, better version of Amir.

[jirrit]

Like Philly, Orlando has too many bigs who need minutes (Ibaka, Biyombo, Green, Vucevic, Gordon) and not enough shooting.

Thoughts on Vucevic? His contract is pretty awesome in the new cap, he can score and rebound even though his defense is an issue. Would he fit next to Horford? What might it take to get him?

Smitty?

Smitty and a future first would be alright for me. Smitty lives in Orlando also so we wouldn't trade him to a bad situation.

[cl2117]

If it only cost me non-BKN draft picks to upgrade from Zeller to Vucevic right now? I'd be very interested. Maybe Zeller, Young, LAC 2019 first, Minnesota 2017 2nd? I don't know if that's in the ball-park for the Magic, but that's the type of value I'd be willing to give up.

Doubt that gets him because the Orlando GM is getting axed if they don't make the playoffs this season. Our win now players are too good for Vuc and the assets we'd part with are too far out into the future for Orlando's timeline.

Yeah I get that from their perspective, I wouldn't be trading him if I were them anyway. I think that's where my interest ends though. think beyond that value and I'd rather chase the likes of Bogut/Davis who should be cheaper and save our assets for "fireworks".

[Slartibartfast]

Hi guys, Magic fan here.

I saw that you guys were fans of Vouch, which is understandable. He does a lot of things well: rebounding, mid-range shooting, post moves, footwork, passing in an inside-out game. He does some things less well like defense and drawing fouls (his defense isn't as awful as most of the Magic community would leave you to believe, but is definitely worse than average).

I was curious as to what your thoughts were on him and what you would trade for him. We don't need cap space because we have a ton of it next off season (most of our deals this summer outside of Biz were for expiring and 1 year deals) and I don't expect that you guys would give up core members of your team nor Nets picks unless they turn it around and start winning every game for the next few weeks. It seems like you guys have a decent amount of less valuable picks and players and we have all of our future picks to trade and the LAL '19 unprotected 1st if you were trying to move up to get one of your more valuable assets.

Happy to see what you guys have to say and have a good one.

Hard for the Celtics to pull off a trade for Vuc. He fits a big need on paper with his rebounding and secondary scoring and we have the defenders to help cover for him, but we're more than a Vucevic short of contention. Thus the actual and opportunity costs of acquiring for a package of say Rozier/Olynyk/Zeller are, IMHO, prohibitive. We don't gain enough on the court to justify taking the max FA slot off the table in 2017.

I expect the Celtics to entertain the following types of big man trades:

1. Blockbusters for established All-Stars - Cousins seems like the only guy who fits the profile and might actually be on the market by the deadline (maybe Griffin, but I doubt it)

2. Expiring rookie contracts - Noel, Len, Cody Zeller, Dieng, Plumlee

3. Expiring or low-cost veteran band-aids - Bogut, maybe Baynes or Ed Davis if there's a way to still fit a max without dumping core pieces

Highly productive (ie rebounding!) guys that fit on paper but have multi-year deals in the $12+ mil range - like Vucevic, Faried and Chandler - just don't fit right now.

I think Bogut has got to be the #1 target right now. On a struggling Dallas team that is due to implode (one season too late, darn them), expiring, championship experience, amazing rebounder, has the passing ability Brad loves.

[Slartibartfast]

Vucevic doesn't move the needle. I'd rather have Biyombo.

This pretty much sums it up. We don't need Monroe/Vucevic type. We need Biyombo/Adams/Gobert/Noel type center. Basically, we need a healthier, better version of Amir.

I don't think Biyombo belongs on that list. Can't have someone that limited offensively for that much money. Makes it too hard to add more pieces.

Adams/Gobert/Noel yes, because their salary situations provide more flexibility and they a little more offensive ability.

Noel is the only one of those 3 who is likely to be available and I like him best after Gobert anyways. His dynamic speed gives him some untapped offensive potential as well, particularly working in an offense that creates as much spacing as our starting line-up does.

AB/Jae/Noel is just all kinds of speed and aggression defensively. And Noel doesn't have a lot of beef, but he can really go vertical. I think he can continue developing into an elite rebounder in the mode of high-intensity beanpoles like Joakim Noah.

[aim2please]

This pretty much sums it up. We don't need Monroe/Vucevic type. We need Biyombo/Adams/Gobert/Noel type center. Basically, we need a healthier, better version of Amir.

I don't think Biyombo belongs on that list. Can't have someone that limited offensively for that much money. Makes it too hard to add more pieces.

Adams/Gobert/Noel yes, because their salary situations provide more flexibility and they a little more offensive ability.

Noel is the only one of those 3 who is likely to be available and I like him best after Gobert anyways. His dynamic speed gives him some untapped offensive potential as well, particularly working in an offense that creates as much spacing as our starting line-up does.

AB/Jae/Noel is just all kinds of speed and aggression defensively. And Noel doesn't have a lot of beef, but he can really go vertical. I think he can continue developing into an elite rebounder in the mode of high-intensity beanpoles like Joakim Noah.

Yeah, I agree with you on Biyombo. I wasn't talking about him and his contract per se. I just used him (and other two) as an example of a player that would fit our need better than Vucevic, ignoring their availability and contracts.

[LarryBirdsFingr]

**** vucevic he leaks like a siv