2016-17 Rookie Watch thread

[nurseryc]

After 3 games,

6.7ppg, 1-6 from the 3 point line (0.167%).

[Chuck Everett]

The other three young players (Clarkson, Russell and Randle) are shoot first/ball dominant players and he's a rookie. He's going to have to show superior skills for them to take a backseat to him. May not happen until his second year to be honest.

[Yuri Vaultin]

After 3 games,

6.7ppg, 1-6 from the 3 point line (0.167%).

Absolutely nothing is wrong with him.
He is young.
He is a project.
He will be very good in time.
Small sample size.
Silly thread.

[Slava]

Nothing really and a confusing question 3 games into the season. He had to leave the game against Utah early as he felt some tendonitis in his knee but otherwise pretty standard for a 18 year old rookie.

[MotownMadness]

3 games!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[GimmeDat]

People get caught up in the hype and forget there's a difference between a 22yo rookie and a 19 year old one. Regardless of pedigree, they're going to take time to live up to their potential.

[Lord Eder]

He's played a total of 49 minutes...

[GimmeDat]

The talk about Jaylen Brown was incredibly divisive leading up to the draft.

His attitude made some love him and some hate him. Some people were turned off because he was cocky, I remember one NBA GM saying he was 'by far the worst interview all week'; said he was arrogant and didn't demonstrate a good feel for the game in his answers. Others were endeared by his confidence and the lack of hiring an agent.

In terms of on the court, the opinions were just as extreme. A lot of his critics said that he was an athlete with little basketball ability and no feel for the game, and it was backed up by a pretty unspectacular college season from him.

I think the majority agreed that either way that he was going to be raw, and that's what's surprised me. He has come out of the gates STRONG as a rookie, really helping Boston's 2nd unit. He's demonstrated a better shot than what he showed at Cal, as well as a much more refined offensive game including a much improved handle (many felt the guy flat out couldn't dribble) and a craftier scoring game, both slashing and pulling up.

Personally, I was sold on him when I came to learn more about his attitude and personal life.. I remember reading a few articles on the draft that really sold me on him capitalizing on his clear potential. Then, when I started seeing him connecting and training with Jimmy, you could really pick up on the parallel's between the two.

Brown has the physical tools, the drive, the alpha mentality and the intelligence to succeed at a high level in this league.

[Impuniti]

Warriors are tied with several teams for 4th place. They're 100% not making the WCF this year.

[Reeko]

And to think people said he'd be the next Durant...

[cksdayoff]

every year, threads like this pop up after the first week of the nba season. remember last year when realgm said d-lo was a bust after the first few weeks lol

[MotownMadness]

People get caught up in the hype and forget there's a difference between a 22yo rookie and a 19 year old one. Regardless of pedigree, they're going to take time to live up to their potential.

This, these kids have gotten through their careers to this point being the most talented, athletic or whatever on the court. Now your in a league of the best of the best grown men and it takes time.

[LofJ]

As far as I know the kid hasn't even turned 19 yet. If you were expecting him to be good you had very unrealistic expectations. It's going to take him a few years to hit his stride.

[Boof]

I remember reading here during the draft and seeing Jaylen Brown immediately declared a bust and then used as proof Ainge couldn't draft. Kid doesn't look raw at all. Has a very impressive skillset, can get to the rim, can operate in the post, not a shooter yet...but there's faith he can get there. What are you guys thinking now, is he a star in the making?

Very few people said he was a bust. The backlash was that the Celtics reached for him.

Which honestly still never made a lot of sense. I can't believe how quickly the story changed on the draft..seemed like in a matter of days (pre-draft), everyone went from believing 3-8 was a crapshoot with no clear best player to all of a sudden Dunn was the consensus number 3 with a guy like Brown being a 'reach.' Brown was never really a reach at 3 until a couple days before the draft when the narrative changed for whatever reason. I could probably dig up mock drafts that had all of Brown, Murray, Hield, Dunn, Bender, and Chriss number 3 or 4 within weeks to a couple months prior to the draft.

Reach in an NBA draft is kind of a dumb thing to talk about to begin with, if you say Jaylen is more of a guy in the 5 range, and upset they took him like 2-3 picks too early, I mean you really don't get much for trading back. If he's your guy then just take him. Don't take back a late first and possibly miss your guy.

[Boof]

Very few people said he was a bust. The backlash was that the Celtics reached for him.

Which honestly still never made a lot of sense. I can't believe how quickly the story changed on the draft..

The same can be said of a ton of Boston fans opinion on using the 3rd pick on Brown.

Heh that's true, Brown was a guy on my radar so I wasn't upset at the time just surprised but, personally Murray would have been my pick. Ainge and his team watch every play of every top pick's college career so I'm glad he's making the picks and not me.

[robbie84]

Those questioning the Celtics have to understand that we are trying to create a contender whilst building through the draft.
There is potentially a deadline for this current contender plan as Avery Bradley and Isaiah Thomas' contract situations slowly creeps up on us. We'll have a hard time deciding which one to keep when the time comes to pay up 20+ million that they may be looking at. If Evan Turner got 15 million then Bradley could get close to 20 million pretty easily. IT is looking at 20-25 million on the open market and this giant cap.

I think there is a 3/4 year window plan, but for that plan to succeed we need to be blown away with offers on guys like Brown, Smart, Rozier and the Brooklyn picks to surround IT, Horford, Crowder and Bradley with a legitimate top 10 player.

If we aren't blown away with the quality of player coming back- I mean absolutely blown away, we'll just keep developing Smart, Brown, Rozier, our Euro picks and future Brooklyn picks, whilst trying to pick up diamond in the rough guys like Crowder and IT.

Right now Celtics fans are hopeful (perhaps dreaming), that we either nab a top 5/10 player somehow with these young guys in a trade, or Smart, Brown, Rozier and the BRK picks are the foundation of a very, very good team.

There are only two guys I could see us giving up the farm for, and those are DeMarcus Cousins or Blake Griffin.

[Slartibartfast]

The talk about Jaylen Brown was incredibly divisive leading up to the draft.

His attitude made some love him and some hate him. Some people were turned off because he was cocky, I remember one NBA GM saying he was 'by far the worst interview all week'; said he was arrogant and didn't demonstrate a good feel for the game in his answers. Others were endeared by his confidence and the lack of hiring an agent.

In terms of on the court, the opinions were just as extreme. A lot of his critics said that he was an athlete with little basketball ability and no feel for the game, and it was backed up by a pretty unspectacular college season from him.

I think the majority agreed that either way that he was going to be raw, and that's what's surprised me. He has come out of the gates STRONG as a rookie, really helping Boston's 2nd unit. He's demonstrated a better shot than what he showed at Cal, as well as a much more refined offensive game including a much improved handle (many felt the guy flat out couldn't dribble) and a craftier scoring game, both slashing and pulling up.

Personally, I was sold on him when I came to learn more about his attitude and personal life.. I remember reading a few articles on the draft that really sold me on him capitalizing on his clear potential. Then, when I started seeing him connecting and training with Jimmy, you could really pick up on the parallel's between the two.

Brown has the physical tools, the drive, the alpha mentality and the intelligence to succeed at a high level in this league.

Brown has impressed me in several respects as well (and I agree with your last sentence), but I think your scouting report is tinged by the what could be moreso than the what is.

Jaylen has only taken 3 shots outside of 15 feet so far and has missed all of them. He's also been as bad as you'd expect an enthusiastic but super-young guy would be on D.

His rebounding - a strength in college - has almost disappeared now that he's seeing more time as a small-ball 4.

Where he's looked great is his explosiveness attacking close-outs and then finishing with either hand with great touch and hangtime as opposed the slash and crash stuff he did at Cal. Also attacking in the post - superb quickness moving side to side and great extension on his fallaway.

He's also shown much better passing instincts than at Cal, including a beauty of a crosscourt bounce pass that hit IT on the money for a transition lay-up.

What he's yet to show is whether he can create for himself off the wing. He can definitely blow-by big men like Frank Kaminsky, and bottom-of-the-barrel defenders like Bogdanovic and McBuckets, and he can post-up guys like Belinelli, but his big problem at Cal was turning the ball over when attacking guys who would get up into his dribble or settling for his mediocre J when he was given space.

I felt pre-draft that Jaylen had a pretty decent floor - that kind of first-step and slashing ability means you can score in this league. The problem, counter-intuitive as it may seem, is his ceiling. Do guys who have a ready to go slashing and scoring game but big holes elsewhere typically develop the rest of their game? DeMar DeRozan for example has had a fine career, but he never added a 3 and has never gotten the most out of his athletic tools defensively or on the glass. Corey Maggette got even less out his abilities after starting strong. We may be seeing something similar with Andrew Wiggins, whose defensive development and floor game has lagged behind his ability to get to the rim and score the ball.

Not complaining - Brown's talent justifies #3, even if I would have preferred Dunn or Chriss or even Murray. Just wanted to point out that a few of the reasons Brown was frowned on by draftniks still apply.

[GimmeDat]

The talk about Jaylen Brown was incredibly divisive leading up to the draft.

His attitude made some love him and some hate him. Some people were turned off because he was cocky, I remember one NBA GM saying he was 'by far the worst interview all week'; said he was arrogant and didn't demonstrate a good feel for the game in his answers. Others were endeared by his confidence and the lack of hiring an agent.

In terms of on the court, the opinions were just as extreme. A lot of his critics said that he was an athlete with little basketball ability and no feel for the game, and it was backed up by a pretty unspectacular college season from him.

I think the majority agreed that either way that he was going to be raw, and that's what's surprised me. He has come out of the gates STRONG as a rookie, really helping Boston's 2nd unit. He's demonstrated a better shot than what he showed at Cal, as well as a much more refined offensive game including a much improved handle (many felt the guy flat out couldn't dribble) and a craftier scoring game, both slashing and pulling up.

Personally, I was sold on him when I came to learn more about his attitude and personal life.. I remember reading a few articles on the draft that really sold me on him capitalizing on his clear potential. Then, when I started seeing him connecting and training with Jimmy, you could really pick up on the parallel's between the two.

Brown has the physical tools, the drive, the alpha mentality and the intelligence to succeed at a high level in this league.

Brown has impressed me in several respects as well (and I agree with your last sentence), but I think your scouting report is tinged by the what could be moreso than the what is.

Jaylen has only taken 3 shots outside of 15 feet so far and has missed all of them. He's also been as bad as you'd expect an enthusiastic but super-young guy would be on D.

His rebounding - a strength in college - has almost disappeared now that he's seeing more time as a small-ball 4.

Where he's looked great is his explosiveness attacking close-outs and then finishing with either hand with great touch and hangtime as opposed the slash and crash stuff he did at Cal. Also attacking in the post - superb quickness moving side to side and great extension on his fallaway.

He's also shown much better passing instincts than at Cal, including a beauty of a crosscourt bounce pass that hit IT on the money for a transition lay-up.

What he's yet to show is whether he can create for himself off the wing. He can definitely blow-by big men like Frank Kaminsky, and bottom-of-the-barrel defenders like Bogdanovic and McBuckets, and he can post-up guys like Belinelli, but his big problem at Cal was turning the ball over when attacking guys who would get up into his dribble or settling for his mediocre J when he was given space.

I felt pre-draft that Jaylen had a pretty decent floor - that kind of first-step and slashing ability means you can score in this league. The problem, counter-intuitive as it may seem, is his ceiling. Do guys who have a ready to go slashing and scoring game but big holes elsewhere typically develop the rest of their game? DeMar DeRozan for example has had a fine career, but he never added a 3 and has never gotten the most out of his athletic tools defensively or on the glass. Corey Maggette got even less out his abilities after starting strong. We may be seeing something similar with Andrew Wiggins, whose defensive development and floor game has lagged behind his ability to get to the rim and score the ball.

Not complaining - Brown's talent justifies #3, even if I would have preferred Dunn or Chriss or even Murray. Just wanted to point out that a few of the reasons Brown was frowned on by draftniks still apply.

I agree with all of that.

Some of the things I was pointing out were elements of his game that people pointed to and almost said they were so broken he'd never improve on them, like shooting, passing, etc. and I think he's shown enough to show that that's not the case. I think it's clear that he has okay mechanics on his shot, even though he's not a shooter yet, and I think he's shown enough to show that he is a willing passer.

[Boof]

The talk about Jaylen Brown was incredibly divisive leading up to the draft.

His attitude made some love him and some hate him. Some people were turned off because he was cocky, I remember one NBA GM saying he was 'by far the worst interview all week'; said he was arrogant and didn't demonstrate a good feel for the game in his answers. Others were endeared by his confidence and the lack of hiring an agent.

In terms of on the court, the opinions were just as extreme. A lot of his critics said that he was an athlete with little basketball ability and no feel for the game, and it was backed up by a pretty unspectacular college season from him.

I think the majority agreed that either way that he was going to be raw, and that's what's surprised me. He has come out of the gates STRONG as a rookie, really helping Boston's 2nd unit. He's demonstrated a better shot than what he showed at Cal, as well as a much more refined offensive game including a much improved handle (many felt the guy flat out couldn't dribble) and a craftier scoring game, both slashing and pulling up.

Personally, I was sold on him when I came to learn more about his attitude and personal life.. I remember reading a few articles on the draft that really sold me on him capitalizing on his clear potential. Then, when I started seeing him connecting and training with Jimmy, you could really pick up on the parallel's between the two.

Brown has the physical tools, the drive, the alpha mentality and the intelligence to succeed at a high level in this league.

Brown has impressed me in several respects as well (and I agree with your last sentence), but I think your scouting report is tinged by the what could be moreso than the what is.

Jaylen has only taken 3 shots outside of 15 feet so far and has missed all of them. He's also been as bad as you'd expect an enthusiastic but super-young guy would be on D.

His rebounding - a strength in college - has almost disappeared now that he's seeing more time as a small-ball 4.

Where he's looked great is his explosiveness attacking close-outs and then finishing with either hand with great touch and hangtime as opposed the slash and crash stuff he did at Cal. Also attacking in the post - superb quickness moving side to side and great extension on his fallaway.

He's also shown much better passing instincts than at Cal, including a beauty of a crosscourt bounce pass that hit IT on the money for a transition lay-up.

What he's yet to show is whether he can create for himself off the wing. He can definitely blow-by big men like Frank Kaminsky, and bottom-of-the-barrel defenders like Bogdanovic and McBuckets, and he can post-up guys like Belinelli, but his big problem at Cal was turning the ball over when attacking guys who would get up into his dribble or settling for his mediocre J when he was given space.

I felt pre-draft that Jaylen had a pretty decent floor - that kind of first-step and slashing ability means you can score in this league. The problem, counter-intuitive as it may seem, is his ceiling. Do guys who have a ready to go slashing and scoring game but big holes elsewhere typically develop the rest of their game? DeMar DeRozan for example has had a fine career, but he never added a 3 and has never gotten the most out of his athletic tools defensively or on the glass. Corey Maggette got even less out his abilities after starting strong. We may be seeing something similar with Andrew Wiggins, whose defensive development and floor game has lagged behind his ability to get to the rim and score the ball.

Not complaining - Brown's talent justifies #3, even if I would have preferred Dunn or Chriss or even Murray. Just wanted to point out that a few of the reasons Brown was frowned on by draftniks still apply.

I agree with all of that.

Some of the things I was pointing out were elements of his game that people pointed to and almost said they were so broken he'd never improve on them, like shooting, passing, etc. and I think he's shown enough to show that that's not the case. I think it's clear that he has okay mechanics on his shot, even though he's not a shooter yet, and I think he's shown enough to show that he is a willing passer.

Sooo glad they didn't trade the pick, id rather roll the dice on this kid. He might end up being the best player in the draft.

[Duke4life831]

The other three young players (Clarkson, Russell and Randle) are shoot first/ball dominant players and he's a rookie. He's going to have to show superior skills for them to take a backseat to him. May not happen until his second year to be honest.

Ya can be kinda hard to watch the Lakers sometimes right now. It seems like if the ball goes to Clarkson he is no doubt going to shoot it. Right now it just seems like Clarkson, Randle and Russell are all trying to prove how good they can be, instead of trying to make the team the best. I dont think its that bad of a thing since LA are not contenders this year and theyre young. But ya Ingram can go 5-6 possessions straight without ever getting the ball or even getting looked at.

Also I think Ingram has looked pretty solid when you think about his age and size. Hes playing good D already (arguably the Lakers best perimeter defender already) and seems to moving pretty well. Give the guy a couple years to get some weight and he should be pretty good. I can see him contending for all stars down the road.