Jahlil Okafor

[thamadkant]

From everything coming from Philly, Jah is off the table as of right now. Noel is going to be the one moved.

Primarily because 76ers are still rebuilding and Noel is due for a massive contract and 76ers have 2 other big guys to build around.

[tsherkin]

From everything coming from Philly, Jah is off the table as of right now. Noel is going to be the one moved.

Primarily because 76ers are still rebuilding and Noel is due for a massive contract and 76ers have 2 other big guys to build around.

I would advance the idea that moving the remarkable defensive force for the questionable offensive potential of Okafor is flatly stupid.

[papidulo]

Crazy how ppl talk about Okafor as if hes 29 and has already peaked, and not just 20.
It takes big men more time to get adjusted to the NBA, bc the interior game is more about brute strength, something most 20 year olds dont have. Okafor may not have the best foot speed, but he can develop into a solid defender given the time.

Offensively, he has a solid post-up game. To me, I dont see why he cant model his game after a guy like Lamarcus Aldridge.

The problems he has are:

1) Hes in Philly, where everyone looks bad bc they have no vets to learn from

2) His skillset is so specific that he needs to play with a specific type of big. One that stretches the floor offensively, but also can be the primary defender. This is the same problem that Sacramento has in finding someone to play with Cousins.

The first 2 bigs that come to mind for me that Jah could fit with are Anthony Davis and Serge Ibaka.

Hopefully he can get out of Philly and have a long and productive career

[papidulo]

Winslow was the best player on that Duke championship team, not Okafor.

To be forreal, Tyus Jones was the best player on that team...

But thats why college is college, and the pros is the pros.

[akhan786]

I agree with a lot of the criticisms of Okafor.

What I don't get is when the criticisms start to become hate that eventually makes it seem like one of the most offensively gifted centers in the league can't improve when he's only 20 freaking years old....

Give the guy a chance. Last year the entire team was essentially perfectly tuned to set up Okafor for failure and he STILL put up decent numbers. I for one am super excited to see what happens when he's surrounded by a good point guard, shooters, and a fanbase that wants him to become a star.

The problem is, I don't think that will happen in Philly. So he might become one of the biggest what ifs he can never get away from Embiid's shadow and the unrealistic hate from Philly fans.

[LakersLegacy]

Why don't you think he's getting the love?

Maybe it's his inability to can't anchor a defense, or help stretch the floor on offense? No one denies his low post scoring skills, but he has some deficiencies which aren't easy fixes.

He isn't getting live because Embid and Noel are stealing his show.

[Duke4life831]

I think most people agree that players can make a tremendous leap in their games from when they are 19/20 years old to when they are 27/28 years old. However, it seems like most fans are very close-minded when it comes to the kind of player that Okafor will become. That is, he is not afforded the same leeway that guys like Myles Turner, Devin Booker, D'Angelo Russell get when it comes to potentially fixing weaknesses in their games. And that there is nothing that he can do to become a top player in the NBA because at 20 years old, his career trajectory is pretty much known already (whereas with other young players, the sky is the limit). Pretty weird.

I do agree with all of this. There seems to be some players that people tend to give the benefit of the doubt to and others they give 0 too. And its not like Okafor lacks physical tools either. Okafor is 6'11 with a 7'6 winspan and yes hes not an explosive athlete but the dude moves pretty damn well for a guy his size and has great footwork and hand eye coordination. The dude has the physical tools to be at least an average defensive big.

He is terrible at defending the PnR, no one would deny that, but his rim protection and rebounding issues I think get overblown big time. Okafor is good at boxing out, Philly as a team last year rebounded better with him on the court. And when it comes to rim protection, per 36 minutes KAT averaged just .5 more blocks a game. They allowed the same shooting %s, Okafor actually held his opponents to a lower FG% from 6 ft and in than Towns while defending the same amount of shots per game from that area. And if we go to more advanced stats like points saved per game (according to Nylon Calculus), Okafor saved more points from rim protection than guys like Steven Adams, Dwight, Marc Gasol, Anthony Davis, Tyson Chandler, Blake, Tristan Thompson, Giannis. When it comes to his offense, people act like he only shoots down low with his back to the basket, a guy like Cousins has had multiple seasons where a higher % of his shots came within 2 feet than Okafor last year. Jahlil shoots from the 10-15ft range at a higher % than Cousins ever has and a higher rate than Cousins (except for 1 season).

With all that said, Id still take KAT and KP over him and probably Turner as well. Okafor has his flaws but the way he has been written off by some already is pretty weird.

[76ciology]

Building up for Jah's next game against the Hornets where his minutes will go up to 24?

[E-Balla]

Has any 17/7 decent efficiency rookie ever gotten as little love as this guy?

Here is a prospect I was very excited about coming out of college, who in a very bad situation with no guard help put up good numbers while displaying amazing post moves. His numbers once he gets even a passable pg like ish smith are even better, and if I recall pretty efficient.

Yet no one is listing him as a big of the future or even one of the top prospects of his draft. He has the potential to be a prolific scorer. To quote the black eyed peas "where is the love?"

Weak defender. Unimpressive rebounder.

Totally agree here. I will say as a defender he was a rookie and as far as rookies go he wasn't too terrible.

Doesn't really project confidence for developing into an offensive focal player.

How not he's a young big that scored amazingly well. Plenty of great players were bad offensively as rookies because they could only score off their raw talent and they couldn't yet do it in a way that helped the team.

No demonstrated range past about 10 feet.

That's not true. Past 10 feet he took about 4 shots a game at 33%. To compare him to other rookie bigs Demarcus was about 36% on the same amount of attempts per night and Davis was 29% on slightly less attempts per night. And Demarcus had more range but he and AD were both 27% from 15+ as rookies. You're too caught up in what he did at Duke and comparing him to the jumpers of KP, KAT, and Myles. As far as young bigmen go his jumper is developing normally.

Slightly below average efficiency (albeit as a rookie and in some turbulent circumstances), why should he get more pub?

Because a 20 year old big man putting up 17.5 ppg on -0.5 TS% while showing improvements in his biggest area of weakness (his FT shooting) with the worst offense ever around him (they were still the worst without him the year before) is impressive? He's still more impressive than the best C in the league currently was as a rookie.

He's not a "big of the future," he doesn't do enough to garner that sort of label. He might become a better scorer, he certainly has the moves and works well off of a halfway decent point guard but I mean, it's pretty clear that he's not the same level of talent as some of the guys who get talked about ahead of him. He projects as a very reasonable player, but more of a utility player than a top-end star.

*shrugs*

He's in that "g'head and prove it" stage now more than anything, as others have moved ahead of where he is and only time will give us the answers.

I think all of these guys outside of KAT and Porzingis are in the prove it stage though. Jokic barely got PT, Turner was bad but good for a rookie, and Embiid is coming off a 2 year hiatus and is only 3 games in. Jahlil is somehow getting less hype than all other young Cs despite having the 4th most impressive resume of the bunch.

[tsherkin]

How not he's a young big that scored amazingly well. Plenty of great players were bad offensively as rookies because they could only score off their raw talent and they couldn't yet do it in a way that helped the team.

Oh yeah, I"m not looking at him and going "meh, TS%" or anything like that. I'm looking at his size, his approach to the game, his skill set, the odds of him being a worthy focal player based on the last 3.5 decades of NBA basketball, etc, etc.

That's not true.

It's definitively true. It doesn't mean he can't develop it, but he blew chunks past ten feet. He shot 27.4% from 16-23 feet and 35.3% from 10-15 feet, both of which are quite bad.

To compare him to other rookie bigs Demarcus was about 36% on the same amount of attempts

Yeah but Cousins shot 39.5% from 16-23 feet, and he did it on over half of that volume. He shot 32.8% from 10-15 feet, which sucked, and hasn't evidenced any development there since, just seasonal variance. Cousins also took basically a half decade to even begin to be a worthwhile offensive piece, struggling alternately with finishing rate at the basket and his jumper before finally at least figuring out how to draw a lot of fouls and improving at the line. He's also more worthwhile because of the stuff that he does that has nothing to do with offense, and has always been a noticeably superior passer than Okafor.

I think all of these guys outside of KAT and Porzingis are in the prove it stage though. Jokic barely got PT, Turner was bad but good for a rookie, and Embiid is coming off a 2 year hiatus and is only 3 games in. Jahlil is somehow getting less hype than all other young Cs despite having the 4th most impressive resume of the bunch.

I don't really disagree here. I was reacting there specifically to "big of the future."

Anyway, as I've said in a couple of other posts ITT, Okafor needs a decent PG and some time to show us what he's got, for sure. Philly probably isn't the place for him if teams want to try to run him as a 5, so we'll see. I would bet against him being a franchise player, but I'd be more intrigued at trying to see how he will compare to Utah Carlos Boozer. A little more punch in terms of creating his own offense, a little less on the glass, still a net positive player with a strong PG kind of thing.

[phifans]

Okafor may be the only one who got more love from nutral fans than from his own teams' fans which is weird.

[E-Balla]

Al Jefferson is a player that led teams to playoff appearances and was good for 20/10.

~ 22/11 on below-average efficiency more valuable for the absence of competent offensive support than anything else, but yes. They were the 24th-ranked offense in the league with him at the helm, but the 5th-best defense. Jefferson had nothing really to do with the latter, so which do you think was the primary leading factor in their success during a 43-win season?

Are you forgetting he lead Utah to 2 top 10 offenses including a 6th place finish one year where he won his most games in his 2 best passing seasons? Millsap might've been better overall but Al lead that 6th ranked offense (had +10.4 offensive on/off).

Given Okafor's size and defense, he's better-served at the 4, with a stretch 5 alongside him, I'd imagine. Technically, he can play the 5, but that seems less than ideal.

His size? He's 6-11, 270, with a 7-5 wingspan and a
9-3 standing reach. That's bigger than most Cs. And defensively the one thing he's not bad at is defending the rim. Why play him at PF where he'll be asked to be out the paint more and he'd guard more PNRs. That was one of his problems last year he averaged 7 rebounds per 36 when he was out there with Nerlens and 9.5 when he wasn't out there and the team played worse when they shared the floor (they were 5 pp100 worse with Jahlil and Noel playing when compared to just Jahlil). He's a C that needs a team around him not a piece to the puzzle.

[tsherkin]

Are you forgetting he lead Utah to 2 top 10 offenses including a 6th place finish one year where he won his most games in his 2 best passing seasons? Millsap might've been better overall but Al lead that 6th ranked offense (had +10.4 offensive on/off).

No. Read forward, I dealt with all three of those seasons

And defensively the one thing he's not bad at is defending the rim.

Yeah, but he's no Roy Hibbert. In order to be a slow-footed player weak at help defense and be a 5, you want to be properly elite at that, which he is not. And again, he's a crappy rebounder, which further underscores his lack of suitability to the position.

He's a C that needs a team around him not a piece to the puzzle.

He's not the focal piece, I think that should be reasonably clear at this point. He's got too many weaknesses directly relevant to the position he plays.

[Curmudgeon]

Well, Philly is 0-4, and Okafor didn't even play in two of those games. They say he's recovered from his knee injury and he was just "resting." Plus ça change, plus c'est la même chose.

The discussions of how good Okafor could be are just wishful piffle until Philly actually wins a game or two and Okafor contributes something to those wins.

[E-Balla]

It's definitively true. It doesn't mean he can't develop it, but he blew chunks past ten feet. He shot 27.4% from 16-23 feet and 35.3% from 10-15 feet, both of which are quite bad.

To compare him to other rookie bigs Demarcus was about 36% on the same amount of attempts

Yeah but Cousins shot 39.5% from 16-23 feet, and he did it on over half of that volume. He shot 32.8% from 10-15 feet, which sucked, and hasn't evidenced any development there since, just seasonal variance. Cousins also took basically a half decade to even begin to be a worthwhile offensive piece, struggling alternately with finishing rate at the basket and his jumper before finally at least figuring out how to draw a lot of fouls and improving at the line. He's also more worthwhile because of the stuff that he does that has nothing to do with offense, and has always been a noticeably superior passer than Okafor.

Cousins did take a while to get good but he's a big that entered the league at 20 that's what you expect and that's my point. When it comes to whether or not Myles will improve enough to no longer be a bad player everyone expects it but when its Okafor no one expects him to improve for some reason even though he's shown massive improvement from college to his rookie season and he improved as the year went on. And like I said before Demarcus totally had more range but AD didn't. Now if you want to make the argument you don't see him improving that's cool but I don't get how the majority doesn't see him continuing to improve while all these other guys get passes because they're young.

I see the same with with Julius Randle who averaged a double double last year and no one mentioned it.

I don't really disagree here. I was reacting there specifically to "big of the future."

Anyway, as I've said in a couple of other posts ITT, Okafor needs a decent PG and some time to show us what he's got, for sure. Philly probably isn't the place for him if teams want to try to run him as a 5, so we'll see. I would bet against him being a franchise player, but I'd be more intrigued at trying to see how he will compare to Utah Carlos Boozer. A little more punch in terms of creating his own offense, a little less on the glass, still a net positive player with a strong PG kind of thing.

I think he's a way better scorer than Boozer. I know it was limited PT but he averaged 23 pp36 on 61.2 TS% when he hit the floor with Ish and 22.7 pp36 on 57.3 TS% after his suspension following the Boston ordeal (927 minute sample). His season ended early but he was so bad in November it skewed his overall numbers well below his median season performance.

[tsherkin]

Now if you want to make the argument you don't see him improving that's cool

I see him improving. My argument was that I don't see him improving enough to be worthwhile as a primary offensive focus. There's a reason that in subsequent posts I was talking about his age and being a rookie, his play with Ish Smith and so forth.

I think he's a way better scorer than Boozer.

Right. Point missed. I wasn't making a direct comparison, I was talking about his utility to the team. Second to a focal perimeter player. I absolutely agree that Okafor is a better isolation scorer than Boozer. Whether or not he can add more of the off-ball stuff that Boozer did which made him very useful on offense remains to be seen.

I know it was limited PT but he averaged 23 pp36 on 61.2 TS% when he hit the floor with Ish and 22.7 pp36 on 57.3 TS% after his suspension following the Boston ordeal (927 minute sample). His season ended early but he was so bad in November it skewed his overall numbers well below his median season performance.

Beyond the most perfunctory of looks, none of those numbers matter. I absolutely agree that the Ish Smith stuff is significant, though, because quality guard play can make a very large difference. We'll see what happens when he finally gets back on the court, but I will cheerfully bet against him as a primary player. I would, however, be interested to see him as #2.

[Unbreakable99]

All you need to know is that we couldn't trade Okakor. Teams aren't stupid. They know he's a difficult player to build around. You need so many pieces for him to fit. If we put Embiid on the block today teams would be beating down our door. Okafor can't even net a top 10 pick at this point. Noel has more value. I'll trade any team with a good wing or guard but no team is doing that and I understand why.

[Madhouse]

Baiting

[Ericb5]

All you need to know is that we couldn't trade Okakor. Teams aren't stupid. They know he's a difficult player to build around. You need so many pieces for him to fit. If we put Embiid on the block today teams would be beating down our door. Okafor can't even net a top 10 pick at this point. Noel has more value. I'll trade any team with a good wing or guard but no team is doing that and I understand why.

This is completely false. All that you know is that we WOULDN'T trade Okafor, and not that we COULDN'T.

It has always been an assumption in the Anti-Okafor crowd that the Sixers would trade him in a second if they could get anything for him. There is absolutely no evidence to support that, but people still believe it.

[chefy]

when lamarcus aldrige was averaging similar stats (lesser actually) during his early years he was considered a "project"..folks were saying he'll be fine etc.

another very talented player wasted due to basketball politics.


btw he is far from a weak defender/rebounder.