Knicks-Rockets PG: Who didn't see this coming?

[13ringsruling]

what are you even talking about?
i'm not commenting on the team being good or bad. i'm commenting on the notion that offense is the problem. you could run rose/kp pnr all. game. long. and it will NOT CHANGE the fact that the knicks allowed 116pts and plenty of WIDE OPEN 3 point shots.

the offense has nothing to do with it and fools that comment "the triangle is killing this team" are idiots. i watched the same body language on different players the year the team won 37 games and missed the playoffs and that had nothing to do with phil OR the triangle.

HUH??? The Knicks inability to do anything on offense to put pressure on opposing teams absolutely impacts the defensive end. The notion that poor play on one end doesn't impact the play on the other end is just ludicrous. You talk body language. Why do you think that a team of offensive centric players have such poor body language? Because they are frustrated, confused, flustered on the end of the court that they are supposed to be better at. Absolutely it would impact them when they are on defense.

Why is this so hard to understand? When you with an offense THERE'S NO WAY you're going to overcompensate and on the defensive end. This offense has been killing flow since Phil arrived. What makes anyone think a team of scorers who are handcuffed by an antiquated offense are going to be able to tighten the screws on defense? Right now, we we expend tons of energy on on and offense that's become easy to defend. Then since the opposition has expended so little energy on guarding a predictable offense we're gassed and they've got reserves. Nevermind our coach playing plodding bench players over sparkplugs or putting our best shotblocker on the perimeter to guard the entire arc!! There's no way Jeff, Phil or Rambis ever considers defense cause all they are focused on is this motherf***king geometry!!!

so youre telling me kristaps forgets to close out on one of the better 3pt shooting big men in the league, REPEATEDLY, because he is thinking too much about/trying too hard on offense?

lmao

[Sprewell4Three]

Look at the Celtics, Look at the Lakers, Look at the T-Wolves.... teams that built through the draft. While this team has basically one good young player after years of being mediocre. There has to be a way to make Dolan sell the team or something.

[Adelheid]

Knicks threads on regular season certainly do not disappoint now do they?

[moocow007]

When your PG is calling his own number 95% of the time and sucks at it, that's always going to be the main thing wrong with your team.

It's that simple.

But Rose has always been like that. Shouldn't be a surprise. Rose is along the lines of Steph Marbury and Steve Francis...and I don't mean that in a bad way per se. The Knicks should be trying to figure out a way to maximize Roses strengths and not expecting him focus on areas he's not good at.

In fact this inability to align players with system has been one of the biggest underlying problems with the Knicks for well over a decade. Their problem is not talent. They've had plenty of talent. Their problem has been getting players that fit the system that they want to run. Why who your GM is is so important and not just anyone can be a GM.

Larry Brown and the players he had was a brutal mix. Mike DAntoni and the players he had was a terrible mix. There's a reason why Mike Woodson has been the most successful head coach since the turn of the 21st century (15 years). It's not because he's the best coach. It's because he actually had players that fit the system he runs. In 2012-2013 that mix of players were a near perfect mix for his system and the Knicks won 54 games.

This isn't a secret. It's why the Spurs have been so great. It's why the Warriors were so good. It's why the Bulls and Lakers under Jackson were great. It's what the Mavericks even without the greatest talent have been able to play above the talent they have. Cause the players fit the system. And when the players fit they are more successful which makes them play harder and remain positive which allows them to not go into long ruts which is what has been burying teams like the Knicks. You give any halfway solid coach players that fit his system and he'll be more often successful than not,

[WesleyExChiFan]

Hornacek has lost this team. Guaranteed. The talent level isn't that great but the effort on defense isn't there. Hell, the Nets try harder.

Right now, that's the team's identity. SOFT.

Four games and the coach has lost the team?

Come on now

If anything, the players are not jiving with each other and that's on them at this point more than the coach. This early on the one things the players can do until a system is really in place is play with heart and if they start the season in quit mode you don't pin that on the new coach, but on the players

A good leader makes all the difference. Hornacek may not have lost them, but it doesn't look like he ever had them. I'm not seeing the effort.

To be fair though...and I hate to say this..Rose and Noah may just be washed up.

[BodyCount]

Read on Twitter

yeah well he didn't really look like lock down defender in any game, so he can just stfu about it. Can't defend even Ish Smith.

[Clyde Frazier]

Hornacek has lost this team. Guaranteed. The talent level isn't that great but the effort on defense isn't there. Hell, the Nets try harder.

Right now, that's the team's identity. SOFT.

Far from it. Conclusions can't be made 4 games into the season.

[BBALLER4FR]

HUH??? The Knicks inability to do anything on offense to put pressure on opposing teams absolutely impacts the defensive end. The notion that poor play on one end doesn't impact the play on the other end is just ludicrous. You talk body language. Why do you think that a team of offensive centric players have such poor body language? Because they are frustrated, confused, flustered on the end of the court that they are supposed to be better at. Absolutely it would impact them when they are on defense.

Why is this so hard to understand? When you with an offense THERE'S NO WAY you're going to overcompensate and on the defensive end. This offense has been killing flow since Phil arrived. What makes anyone think a team of scorers who are handcuffed by an antiquated offense are going to be able to tighten the screws on defense? Right now, we we expend tons of energy on on and offense that's become easy to defend. Then since the opposition has expended so little energy on guarding a predictable offense we're gassed and they've got reserves. Nevermind our coach playing plodding bench players over sparkplugs or putting our best shotblocker on the perimeter to guard the entire arc!! There's no way Jeff, Phil or Rambis ever considers defense cause all they are focused on is this motherf***king geometry!!!

so youre telling me kristaps forgets to close out on one of the better 3pt shooting big men in the league, REPEATEDLY, because he is thinking too much about/trying too hard on offense?

lmao

No, I'm telling you Kristaps, our best shotblocker last year, should never be tasked with guarding a perimeter that features Anderson and Harden running screens around the arc. You wonder why his offense sucks? It's because the coach has put him in an impossible position defensively. He's gassed. Who do you think is expending more energy out there - Harden, Anderson and Gordon playing do-si-do on the perimeter of KP trying to figure out when to switch and when to fight through to guard this trio of bombers? ANd once you've figured out who expended the most energy think about the other end. Who do you think will be more effecting - KP or the team running the offense we showed in the preseason?

[Mike Breen]

I predicted 35 games +/- 5 at the beginning of the season. I'm feeling more comfortable with the lower end of that estimate right now.

[Clyde Frazier]

Hornacek will still get the $15 million on his 3 year deal if he gets fired, right?

Hornacek probably won't quit no matter if Phil has made it impossible for him to coach properly. Hornacek can continue laughing his way to the bank while Phil and all the players undermine his authority.

Damn it Phil.

Do you not realize how nuts it is to want a coach fired this early in the season with a brand new team? The snap judgments are hilariously bad.

[CJackson]

Hornacek has lost this team. Guaranteed. The talent level isn't that great but the effort on defense isn't there. Hell, the Nets try harder.

Right now, that's the team's identity. SOFT.

Four games and the coach has lost the team?

Come on now

If anything, the players are not jiving with each other and that's on them at this point more than the coach. This early on the one things the players can do until a system is really in place is play with heart and if they start the season in quit mode you don't pin that on the new coach, but on the players

A good leader makes all the difference. Hornacek may not have lost them, but it doesn't look like he ever had them. I'm not seeing the effort.

To be fair though...and I hate to say this..Rose and Noah may just be washed up.

You have to look to Melo, Noah and Rose for that leadership and fire. Team effort after four games is in no way on the coach

[ctorres]

Hornacek will still get the $15 million on his 3 year deal if he gets fired, right?

Hornacek probably won't quit no matter if Phil has made it impossible for him to coach properly. Hornacek can continue laughing his way to the bank while Phil and all the players undermine his authority.

Damn it Phil.

Do you not realize how nuts it is to want a coach fired this early in the season with a brand new team? The snap judgments are hilariously bad.

I don't want Hornacek fired man. I want things to work out.

[moocow007]

Hornacek will still get the $15 million on his 3 year deal if he gets fired, right?

Hornacek probably won't quit no matter if Phil has made it impossible for him to coach properly. Hornacek can continue laughing his way to the bank while Phil and all the players undermine his authority.

Damn it Phil.

Do you not realize how nuts it is to want a coach fired this early in the season with a brand new team? The snap judgments are hilariously bad.

I don't want Hornacek fired man. I want things to work out.

I want to win. Whatever that needs to happen to get that done, get it done. If it means firing Hornacek then go ahead.

[HEZI]

Why is this so hard to understand? When you with an offense THERE'S NO WAY you're going to overcompensate and on the defensive end. This offense has been killing flow since Phil arrived. What makes anyone think a team of scorers who are handcuffed by an antiquated offense are going to be able to tighten the screws on defense? Right now, we we expend tons of energy on on and offense that's become easy to defend. Then since the opposition has expended so little energy on guarding a predictable offense we're gassed and they've got reserves. Nevermind our coach playing plodding bench players over sparkplugs or putting our best shotblocker on the perimeter to guard the entire arc!! There's no way Jeff, Phil or Rambis ever considers defense cause all they are focused on is this motherf***king geometry!!!

so youre telling me kristaps forgets to close out on one of the better 3pt shooting big men in the league, REPEATEDLY, because he is thinking too much about/trying too hard on offense?

lmao

No, I'm telling you Kristaps, our best shotblocker last year, should never be tasked with guarding a perimeter that features Anderson and Harden running screens around the arc. You wonder why his offense sucks? It's because the coach has put him in an impossible position defensively. He's gassed. Who do you think is expending more energy out there - Harden, Anderson and Gordon playing do-si-do on the perimeter of KP trying to figure out when to switch and when to fight through to guard this trio of bombers? ANd once you've figured out who expended the most energy think about the other end. Who do you think will be more effecting - KP or the team running the offense we showed in the preseason?

The opening possession after the tip, the very opening possession of the game was KP leaving Anderson wide open for an easy James Harden pass for 3 from Anderson. It wasn't a pick and roll play or a pick and pop play, it was as basic of a play as there is in the game, Harden gets the ball Harden makes a simple chest pass Ryan Anderson shoots and scores. That is just awful IQ and awareness and understanding of your opponent.

The very next trip down the floor, KP makes the same exact mistake. I'm sorry but that is 100% on Porzingis. It's not his coach or his position at the 4, it's just him being lazy and not engaged on what is going on on the floor.

[BeagleBoss]

Hornacek has lost this team. Guaranteed. The talent level isn't that great but the effort on defense isn't there. Hell, the Nets try harder.

Right now, that's the team's identity. SOFT.

Far from it. Conclusions can't be made 4 games into the season.

Sure you can. Don't pretend like preseason didn't happen. Heck, our first preseason game was against this same Houston team and we got beat worse tonight! Meaning this team and this coach have made no progress since early October. 6 preseason games, 4 regular season games and numerous practices in which Hornecek himself admitted tonight they practice defense the majority time of it, is enough prove this team isn't going anywhere and this season is done. They are not getting any better and the inevitable injury bug hasn't happened yet!

[K_ick_God]

As long as we're talking downfall.

Read on Twitter

[K_ick_God]

Hornacek has lost the team lol. On November 2 (two). 2. 2. 2. November 2.

[BeagleBoss]

Do you not realize how nuts it is to want a coach fired this early in the season with a brand new team? The snap judgments are hilariously bad.

I don't want Hornacek fired man. I want things to work out.

I want to win. Whatever that needs to happen to get that done, get it done. If it means firing Hornacek then go ahead.

Firing Hornecek does nothing since Phil will just replace him with another puppet. The issue here is Phil. He needs to go. Forcing the triangle is demoralizing the entire franchise.

[High level]

Chicago and Rose fan here. I'm just baffled by Rose play so far. Imy rooting for him and for the knicks to be contenders but Imy just out done by his poor assist numbers and horrific defense so far. I know it's just 4 games in but he looks like he's having a hard time playing PG as a starter. Hopes he figures it out and you guys can get on track.

[Clyde Frazier]

Do you not realize how nuts it is to want a coach fired this early in the season with a brand new team? The snap judgments are hilariously bad.

I don't want Hornacek fired man. I want things to work out.

I want to win. Whatever that needs to happen to get that done, get it done. If it means firing Hornacek then go ahead.

He actually has a track record of being a competent coach, though. Firing him doesn't point to winning in reality.