Knicks-Rockets PG: Who didn't see this coming?

Post #601 » by **moocow007** » Thu Nov 3, 2016 1:24 pm

If the Knicks were 1-3 but were competing but just losing because of a pass here or a play there, then sure, no reason to have premonitions of doom, but they are looking as dazed and confused as they've been since Larry Brown. The "a lot of new players and time to gel" argument is an excuse cause plenty of other teams have major overhauls and they are fine.

thebuzzardman · Post #602 » by **thebuzzardman** » Thu Nov 3, 2016 1:24 pm

god shammgod wrote:
thebuzzardman wrote:
blueNorange wrote:

Your "Franchise talent"

Can't guard modern NBA 4's.
Can protect the rim but will get bodied 1 on 1 by 95% of all NBA centers or power forwards.
Isn't strong enough to post up
Doesn't have a ton of post moves anyway
Relies heavily on the 3, which he shoots inconsistently, and so far, frankly, for a low percentage.
Good at playing within the flow of an offense but
Bad at establishing position or working to get the ball; aimless on offense at times.
Sets "Meh" screens in the P&R
Good mid range jumper on the rare occasions he gets himself set up to take one

Doesn't sound "Franchisey" to me. Sounds like a worse Jack Sikma.

first we drafted channing frye and now we drafted a really tall channing frye

Phil Jackson's "Honey I Stretched And Bleached Channing Frye"

will34 · Post #603 » by **will34** » Thu Nov 3, 2016 1:25 pm

moocow007 wrote:If the Knicks were 1-3 but were competing but just losing because of a pass here or a play there, then sure, no reason to have premonitions of doom, but they are looking as dazed and confused as they've been since Larry Brown. The "a lot of new players and time to gel" argument is an excuse cause plenty of other teams have major overhauls and they are fine.

That's the big issue. The effort isn't there and that is inexcusable.

orphicwhip · Post #604 » by **orphicwhip** » Thu Nov 3, 2016 1:25 pm

god shammgod · Post #605 » by **god shammgod** » Thu Nov 3, 2016 1:25 pm

phil just knows that he's gonna be out of here one day not too far away and this will all be somebody else's problem.

thebuzzardman · Post #606 » by **thebuzzardman** » Thu Nov 3, 2016 1:25 pm

moocow007 wrote:If the Knicks were 1-3 but were competing but just losing because of a pass here or a play there, then sure, no reason to have premonitions of doom, but they are looking as dazed and confused as they've been since Larry Brown. The "a lot of new players and time to gel" argument is an excuse cause plenty of other teams have major overhauls and they are fine.

They've been dazed and confused for so long yes it's true

Knicks_Fan2 · Post #607 » by **Knicks_Fan2** » Thu Nov 3, 2016 1:26 pm

Dkillanyk4lyf wrote:Is kp trash absolutely not, is he a 1st option on a championship team no. Can he be a 2nd option on a championship team i believe so.

Which is why we need to tank and draft a future number 1 guy,which i beleive this draft class has plenty of franchise guys.

http://www.tankathon.com/

You could be right. Ultimately, though, I think folks miss the point. The critics of KP aren't completely wrong; he has not played well. But what is the goal? To win a title, right? And what we have seen of the last few years is that cultivating your elite talent is the chief objective of any building team. Are we doing that? If KP isn't that guy, don't we want to conclusively know that as opposed to having all these questions of whether he is being used correctly or featured enough? I am sure Hornacek knows this and is why he is staggering him right now but, ultimately, I just don't see a world where he is not the center (would be nice to have a Draymond next to him but that's why Draymond is a max player) and I hope that happens sooner rather than later. Tough spot for Hornacek though to bench Joakim which is why he has gone with the staggered approach which is very understandable.

seren · Post #608 » by **seren** » Thu Nov 3, 2016 1:28 pm

I didn't see this coming. It is entirely possible to be 1-3 at this point, but that is not the only issue. Our defense sucks big time. Games are not even competitive. I was expecting that we will at least be in the games with all the veterans on the squad. I was wrong.

thebuzzardman · Post #609 » by **thebuzzardman** » Thu Nov 3, 2016 1:29 pm

Wharton Alum 08 wrote:
NYKfan77 wrote:When we committed to full on Melo ISO ball with Woodson we won 54 games and made it to the second round our best season in decades. You guys want team ball and we suck......Hmmmmm

KP4GOD

They don't want team ball they want KP ball. I don't know how you feature him though. He doesn't have a post game and he's not shooting it well from deep

Well, 33% from 3 (KP's percentage) is like 50% from 2, so maybe they can have KP take 20 3 pointers a game.

7x3 = 21. 20 ppg scorer for the win.

Post #610 » by **moocow007** » Thu Nov 3, 2016 1:30 pm

K P 6 wrote:This guy won his first year in PHX with leser players. Dont give me these guys are washed. It can be done. Let the man coach. what happened to that preseason offense jesus.

NYKnicksTAPE · Post #611 » by **NYKnicksTAPE** » Thu Nov 3, 2016 1:33 pm

moocow007 wrote:If the Knicks were 1-3 but were competing but just losing because of a pass here or a play there, then sure, no reason to have premonitions of doom, but they are looking as dazed and confused as they've been since Larry Brown. The "a lot of new players and time to gel" argument is an excuse cause plenty of other teams have major overhauls and they are fine.

even teams like the Lakers are out here competing...we've been playing like a bottom 5 team

xNewYorkMadex · Post #612 » by **xNewYorkMadex** » Thu Nov 3, 2016 1:35 pm

What C.Lee said was fascinating. It makes all the sense in the world. Ever since Phil took over the team has been running the triangle on defense. I am sure the team never actually practiced playing defense against the pick n rolls. You know, the offense that tons of teams run in the NBA.

No wonder this team has been embarassing for years on the defensive end. They dont practice in game situations so once we're out there we dont know wtf to do. Just a dumb franchise.

thebuzzardman · Post #613 » by **thebuzzardman** » Thu Nov 3, 2016 1:35 pm

DaGawd wrote:
KnicksGod wrote:KP is young and figuring things out but he's also not trying to be disruptive. He's had a couple productive games too, out of 4. Even Cleveland wasn't bad.

This whole narrative is lame. KP will be more than aggressive enough. It took them a few years to get Paul George to try to be the main option. Feeling it out and letting it come to you is no sin.

This.. A lot of stars take a couple year before they truely elite alpha level players. It's amazing to me people are ready to give up on this kid 4 games into his sophomore season...

The truly great players just keep getting better.

KP's failed that test. He might become very good, but greatness may not be in the cards. Oh well.

Meat · Post #614 » by **Meat** » Thu Nov 3, 2016 1:37 pm

looking at what embid and saric did last night, all i can say is "trust the process" top 3 draft pick for the next 3 years please

Post #615 » by **dakomish23** » Thu Nov 3, 2016 1:39 pm

So DRose can call his own number as the PG 20-25 times a game, not pass the ball, but blame Melo.

How the hell can anyone watch last night's game and not see this ****?

Melo scored 5 more points on 3 less shots than DRose and had more assists than DRose. He also had more assist attempts.

So he shoots less and passes more than DRose but it's Melo's fault? LOL

But it's blame Melo. That's an agenda not basketball analysis.

Go rewatch the 4th. KP finally showing signs of life with Jennings out there. For some reason Jeff puts DRose in. What does he immediately do in a blowout loss? Calls his number twice and turns to over both times.

Then this fool take about defensive identity in the post game. ROFL

Listen you falsetto fake ass PG. No one is going to bust their ass on defense just to see you be a selfish ball hog on offense who actually can't make shots.

Melo is doing what he did in 11-12. Force the issue of what comes natural to him because what comes natural to him is not being maximized. It's not an excuse. He could take 10 FGA and just try to move the ball and we could lose by 15 instead of 20 I guess.

I can't believe the KP Cult isn't up in arms about how little our PG looks for KP.

Get this 6-4 Amare out of the starting lineup!!!

BeagleBoss · Post #616 » by **BeagleBoss** » Thu Nov 3, 2016 1:40 pm

Thinking about it, I think I got it. The awful defense is mostly due to effort, right? I honestly believe the players are so discouraged and angry about having to run the slow it down stagnant triangle that they just give up on D. Also, they are practicing defending the triangle and only the triangle and have no idea how to defend other systems in real games. So this isn't going to change until Phil is gone and takes his triangle with him. These players and no players want to run this system in 2016. It doesn't work. It's too predictable and slow.

Post #617 » by **moocow007** » Thu Nov 3, 2016 1:41 pm

xNewYorkMadex wrote:What C.Lee said was fascinating. It makes all the sense in the world. Ever since Phil took over the team has been running the triangle on defense. I am sure the team never actually practiced playing defense against the pick n rolls. You know, the offense that tons of teams run in the NBA.

No wonder this team has been embarassing for years on the defensive end. They dont practice in game situations so once we're out there we dont know wtf to do. Just a dumb franchise.

Maybe the problem is the following...

The Jordan Bulls didn't need to have a game plan for their opponents, they were the top dogs and they just ran their system and other teams had to adjust. Same with the Kobe and Shaq Lakers. Maybe having to game plan the other team just isn't in his coaching vocabulary? The defending the Triangle is just a by product of the other half of the team only running the Triangle on offense.

Post #618 » by **King of Canada** » Thu Nov 3, 2016 1:44 pm

god shammgod wrote:phil just knows that he's gonna be out of here one day not too far away and this will all be somebody else's problem.

It's almost as if he just wanted a big payday before retirement.........

xNewYorkMadex · Post #619 » by **xNewYorkMadex** » Thu Nov 3, 2016 1:46 pm

As for KP, the kid needs to be more of a man out there. i dont think people are expecting him to he dominant, but at least attempt to be aggressive. he never fights for position in the post and easily gets pushed out. Plant your feet and dare anyone to knock you out of it man. Be strong.

The Melo and Rose is excuse is dead. KP was out there for half a qtr without them and only got 1 shot off. He wasnt moving with a purpose at all and never bothered to get himself open. Very disappointing performance.

Im not writing him off. But damn KP, be a man. Hes too content playing in the background. Not making excuses for him either on my next point, but its possible the triangle isnt getting the best out of him.

Sprewell4Three · Post #620 » by **Sprewell4Three** » Thu Nov 3, 2016 1:46 pm

I swear some Knicks fans need their heads examined. Why has there been KP bashing ? Really? Let the kid grow and play. Everyone else should be held to a higher standard because they've been in the league for years.
I swear we always get stars that are way past their primes from Amare to Noah and Rose. I like Noah but you could tell he's on the tail end of his career.