Knicks-Rockets PG: Who didn't see this coming?

[dakomish23]

People really expected the Knicks to look like the Spurs/Warriors after 4 games, when they are going up against teams with rosters that have been together for multiple years, and the only other team with as much turnover as the Knicks in terms of roster are the Nets?

Frank and other NY beat writers aren't going to mention that important factor.

@ Frank trying to create a fake feud between Hornacek and Phil to the fans.

The problem is the team not knowing each other well enough on the defensive end when it comes to switching or staying with their man.

HOU has a new roster.

The difference is their roster fits together for what they're trying to accomplish.

DRose in this starting lineup is a disaster as long he keeps being, well, DRose.

[Sprewell4Three]

Dudes are really out here tryna cap KPs potential already....its really wild to me

Imagine if we actually drafted Steph back then. We would've ripped him apart for not being the GOAT shooter by year 2, and wanted him to come off the bench.

In year 2 steph had ankle injuries. The Knicks would have most likely included him in a Melo deal.

[dablackprodigy]

Its just 4 games

This excuse is getting old too.

Excuse? lol you guys are calling for everyones heads after 4 games and 3 losses. Two losses against vastly superior teams in confidence and schemes. We will get better relax half of these guys haven't played with each other

[ChilledAlex]

There should be bans sent out for people that criticize KP. This is why I can't stand The fan base sometimes. We're always turning on our young players. It's only been 4 games into KPs 2nd year and we already have talk of him already reaching his potential... wow

Dude I'm on KP bandwagon, but I'm not delusional either. Dude looks like **** on D and like pussy on O - it is what it is, the sooner KP wakes and bullys the fck up the better! If waking him up means fanbase talking **** about him - lets accomplish that.

I think the criticism against KP these first four games is valid (though it is only four games), but I think people forget to realize he is still only 21. The negative for KP is that he seems way too passive thus far. He's got that dog in him deep down, but he's also a really nice, sweet kid who doesn't want to rock the boat, especially with the new vets in town. I think it's fair to say he is the most talented person on this team but at 21 with his personality, he tends to float around, trying to be the perfect teammate. The positive is that again, he is only 21. At 20, he was so impressive to us that we all thought he would immediately become an all-star. Take his most frequently mentioned comparison, Dirk, and you'll remember he didn't really put it together until year 3 (it's true, look it up). It's tempting to want to think he will be this juggernaut this season, but he really is progressing fine in my opinion. I agree it's frustrating to see him float around when he should be the man on this team, but KP is honestly the least of my worries about this team, by a country mile.

First 2 games KP was arguably the best Knick player. 3rd game he wasn't bad but you could see him forcing bad shots and being bad on defence, however he put up 18-6. Now this game he looked abysmal on both ends. It's only logical that people are seeking for explanation because he has never been this bad. Of course you can't expect young dude to put whole team on his shoulders specially when everyone is playing badly, but what frustrates me is that he looked worse than ever.

[Red Vines]

Not surprisingly a lot of Knicks fans haven't seen the ups and downs of player development...

[Johnny Hoops]

We can't defend the perimeter? Or the interior? Who knew?

I will say though, KP at the 5 staying down low did keep things inhospitable down there. He really shouldn't be playing around the arc for long stretches on defense.

The team has no leader on the floor. Rose has no interest (or ability) in being an actual PG, Melo is back to only wanting to play on the ball. Noah was sorta useless, and KP was passive and was ignored as a result.

Everyone from Hornacek on down needs to look at themselves in the mirror, because getting slapped around on the boards is not a thing you need time to gel to avoid.

Baker looked good though, as did the Knicks City Dancers (if you're on League Pass), so I guess there is that.

This about summed it up GONYK - nice job.

What strikes me the day after the abomination is the thought how does a team of mostly solid veterans Noah/Melo/Rose/Lee and then KP ---- not understand how to play basic pick and roll defense. I mean ok - if you get beat by a guy who is nailing tough/extended 3 pointers but giving up uncontested layups, dunks and then completely wide open 3 pointers.

This wreaks of a mutiny and I just don't get that because Horny is a grounded guy (someone who did defend hard) and a guy who appears to be a players coach -- so I ask myself what the hell is up because basketball isn't this hard.

KP looks absolutely lost -- almost like he doesn't feel like he is one of the guys --- not sure if there is something that happened but KP's mind appears to be elsewhere. Hopefully he's not dating a Kardashian.

[Sark]

and i'm most upset about kp because who really cares about the rest of these players. this team at it's best was doing nothing this year. he represents hope. if he can't improve then we're really nowhere.

But don't you want KP to be put in the best positions to improve instead of trying to fit around two insanely high usage players?

those high usage players are also making him the worst defender in the starting lineup and play with no energy. c'mon.

When you don't touch the ball for pretty much an entire half, then yea you get disinterested. It's human nature. You never played with a ballhog before? It's annoying as hell, and he's got 2 of them.

[F N 11]

People crucifying KP need to look at their boy Melo. KP was fronted Melo couldnt even throw a lob pass into him with Ariza on him. KP was not passed to with Ariza on him on another play when Melo decided to just shoot the 3. No one is looking for KP.

The guys simply have to play team ball and look for the mismatches. Horny even said they dont look for him enough. The guy is 7'3 rockets had no answers yet he had no FG's. People would say he's soft but KP did not get a damn pass when in position a bunch of times.

Melo gets post positiona nd gets it damn near every time. Black hole!

Also the standing around needs to stop when Melo and Rose makes a move. Rose drove a bunch of times but has no one to pass it to it gets annoying.

[HKSVIP]

Lee said they need to practice defense in the pick and roll because that's what most teams play and they always practice the triangle. I'm not sure what Lee is saying but I only saw the triangle run like twice when KP was the low post player in the 4th quarter and we were already down big. We cannot blame our struggles on the offensive end. We have had more assists than turnovers in our losses. We just need to move the ball quicker and that will come with time. I like the offensive sets we are in for the most part. Melo and Rose will always ISO though and that's with most offenses in the league with their best offensive players. The problem is defense. Especially in transition. Nobody picks up their man. I feel like we should run straight back into a zone defense and then adjust accordingly once they slow the transition down. it's really pathetic watching this team. It''s like they are all expecting each other to make a play for another and help on defense. We need to get on the same page and each player needs to play like they want to win. I can see it happening next game. Noah and Rose vs their old teams and Melo always shows up vs Chicago. Plus, good three point shooting teams are killing us. Not so sure the Bulls are quite that but they've been knocking them down. Let's work on the defense.

[Jay10]

People really expected the Knicks to look like the Spurs/Warriors after 4 games, when they are going up against teams with rosters that have been together for multiple years, and the only other team with as much turnover as the Knicks in terms of roster are the Nets?

Frank and other NY beat writers aren't going to mention that important factor.

@ Frank trying to create a fake feud between Hornacek and Phil to the fans.

The problem is the team not knowing each other well enough on the defensive end when it comes to switching or staying with their man.

HOU has a new roster.

The difference is their roster fits together for what they're trying to accomplish.

DRose in this starting lineup is a disaster as long he keeps being, well, DRose.

Houston only added 3 players to their roster during the summer: Eric Gordon, Ryan Anderson, and Nene

[Knicksfan1992]

I love the fantastic logic this board applies that Phil talking to players at practice is the reason we lost this game... get real.

The reason we lost this game is because we gave up 118 points and give up wide open 3's as if it's a philosophy of ours to do so. Our offense isn't great but, that will fix itself. There's too much talent on that end to not be at least average. It's the defense we should all be concerned with especially KP"s. If he continues to struggle covering stretch bigs then it's going to be a long season.

[JXL]

Dallas is 0-4, yet no one is panicking because they know they have no chance in the West. So is Washington.

Yet for us, for a new team, a new coach, it's Armageddon.

Only thing they need to work on during practice (for a month) is defense. They're too talented offensively, yet too soft and lackadaisical defensively. They need serious work.

[kane]

Dennis Smith vs Markelle Fultz

this is a good draft to have a lottery pick

[ChaosHamster]

There should be bans sent out for people that criticize KP. This is why I can't stand The fan base sometimes. We're always turning on our young players. It's only been 4 games into KPs 2nd year and we already have talk of him already reaching his potential... wow

Dude I'm on KP bandwagon, but I'm not delusional either. Dude looks like **** on D and like pussy on O - it is what it is, the sooner KP wakes and bullys the fck up the better! If waking him up means fanbase talking **** about him - lets accomplish that.

I think the criticism against KP these first four games is valid (though it is only four games), but I think people forget to realize he is still only 21. The negative for KP is that he seems way too passive thus far. He's got that dog in him deep down, but he's also a really nice, sweet kid who doesn't want to rock the boat, especially with the new vets in town. I think it's fair to say he is the most talented person on this team but at 21 with his personality, he tends to float around, trying to be the perfect teammate. The positive is that again, he is only 21. At 20, he was so impressive to us that we all thought he would immediately become an all-star. Take his most frequently mentioned comparison, Dirk, and you'll remember he didn't really put it together until year 3 (it's true, look it up). It's tempting to want to think he will be this juggernaut this season, but he really is progressing fine in my opinion. I agree it's frustrating to see him float around when he should be the man on this team, but KP is honestly the least of my worries about this team, by a country mile.

Thats why this year should've been about developing him, and not to get in the 1st round.

KP doesn't have that alpha mentality, that he can chuck 20 shots per game no matter what.. He knows he isn't teams best offensive player, and not even the 2nd one. So he doesn't want to hurt the team.

[Knicks_Fan2]

dolan is why kp is neither guarding his man or the lane. got it.

I see you're ignoring the positional issue. Continue. He is no man's land because he doesn't have the foot speed to close out and cover the penetrating man. It's a common issue with out of position bigs guarding the perimeter.

[JXL]

People really expected the Knicks to look like the Spurs/Warriors after 4 games, when they are going up against teams with rosters that have been together for multiple years, and the only other team with as much turnover as the Knicks in terms of roster are the Nets?

Frank and other NY beat writers aren't going to mention that important factor.

@ Frank trying to create a fake feud between Hornacek and Phil to the fans.

The problem is the team not knowing each other well enough on the defensive end when it comes to switching or staying with their man.

HOU has a new roster.

The difference is their roster fits together for what they're trying to accomplish.

DRose in this starting lineup is a disaster as long he keeps being, well, DRose.

Does D'Antoni set up offenses at all? It's run and gun, shoot 3's, let Harden be PG. It's not hard to see that cause Harden is that good.

[Sark]

Dennis Smith vs Markelle Fultz

this is a good draft to have a lottery pick

You are forgetting Josh Jackson.

[shtolky]

If the Knicks were 1-3 but were competing but just losing because of a pass here or a play there, then sure, no reason to have premonitions of doom, but they are looking as dazed and confused as they've been since Larry Brown. The "a lot of new players and time to gel" argument is an excuse cause plenty of other teams have major overhauls and they are fine.

100% agree with this

I sort of agree with this. Honestly, only last night was truly alarming of the four games. One bad half against clearly the best team in the league right now, and a stinker last night. Pistons...fine, but we still had a shot to win that game late in the fourth (I know this is a bit of a stretch).

That being said, we have seen teams undergo major overhauls be fine, but we have seen some where it has taken time. Also, we have literally changed almost the entire team, whereas teams like the Heat and KG Celtics simply added a few key pieces. We have 10 new players and a new coach. The Heat with prime Lebron took a month before they even resembled what they became, and even they had to wait it out for a while. And as we know, we don't have anyone near Lebron, Wade, or Bosh in terms of talent, so while the excuse that we need to gel is a bit tiring, it's not entirely untrue. Also don't forget Rose was basically gone all preseason. The team plays like they don't know each other, and in a sense, they don't. I won't panic until it's December or even January, and even if we still suck by then, guess what, we actually have a our pick in a draft LOADED with guards, the exact position we need help at.

[god shammgod]

Dallas is 0-4, yet no one is panicking because they know they have no chance in the West. So is Washington.

Yet for us, for a new team, a new coach, it's Armageddon.

Only thing they need to work on during practice (for a month) is defense. They're too talented offensively, yet too soft and lackadaisical defensively. They need serious work.

they're not really talented offensively. melo is the best scoring option but he is a volume scorer who can't finish that well at the rim anymore. kp is mostly a jump shooter who doesn't shoot a great percentage. and rose can only score on drives to the rim and mostly misses layups.

[Johnny Hoops]

We finally got a guard that penetrates but isnt a good facilitator (YEP)

KP's in his second year looks worse and still cant get position on smaller players (he looks disinterested / like something off the court is an issue)

Our headcoach makes creepy smiles while were losing (those are sarcastic smiles (I could kill that player for that dumb play smiles) - I don't understand why people don't get that)

our bench is trash (YES - it is) ---- though Holiday/Baker I think have some potential -- Holiday may need to play some 3.

our defense is trash (WOW is it trash)

our rotations are trash (nothing is working so eveything looks bad -- I mean when your starters get torched repeatedly its usually a sign that the bench or switching players isn't going to help much)

Our starting center spends more time on the bench than the court 4 years 72mill (he doesn't stand out and teams just completely sag off him - pretty obvious game plan which negates back-door cuts / etc. -- he has to score some buckets)

Our rim gets more penetration than pornstars (yep - over pressure the perimeter (get beat) and layup/dunk drill at the rim)

Kyle o'quinn has been playing decent and nobody cares (meh)

Lance thomas robbed us blind (if this cat jumps in the air with his back to the ball on D one more time he should be dragged off court)

Sasha still gets playtime (can NOT believe he is getting PT ahead of anybody on the bench - he is a sieve defensively)

Carmelo still doesn't pass the ball