Knicks-Rockets PG: Who didn't see this coming?

[Jay10]

I wonder what the New York media's angle would be if the entire roster was made up of rookies and no vets?

[shtolky]

Dude I'm on KP bandwagon, but I'm not delusional either. Dude looks like **** on D and like pussy on O - it is what it is, the sooner KP wakes and bullys the fck up the better! If waking him up means fanbase talking **** about him - lets accomplish that.

I think the criticism against KP these first four games is valid (though it is only four games), but I think people forget to realize he is still only 21. The negative for KP is that he seems way too passive thus far. He's got that dog in him deep down, but he's also a really nice, sweet kid who doesn't want to rock the boat, especially with the new vets in town. I think it's fair to say he is the most talented person on this team but at 21 with his personality, he tends to float around, trying to be the perfect teammate. The positive is that again, he is only 21. At 20, he was so impressive to us that we all thought he would immediately become an all-star. Take his most frequently mentioned comparison, Dirk, and you'll remember he didn't really put it together until year 3 (it's true, look it up). It's tempting to want to think he will be this juggernaut this season, but he really is progressing fine in my opinion. I agree it's frustrating to see him float around when he should be the man on this team, but KP is honestly the least of my worries about this team, by a country mile.

Thats why this year should've been about developing him, and not to get in the 1st round.

KP doesn't have that alpha mentality, that he can chuck 20 shots per game no matter what.. He knows he isn't teams best offensive player, and not even the 2nd one. So he doesn't want to hurt the team.

I can't really disagree with you there. I do think he will get that alpha mentality, but it will be after Melo leaves, probably after next season. I really do think he has that dog in him, but right now he's just a little too passive for his own good. We have seen a lot of super young players start out looking passive who develop into alpha players.

[HEZI]

I love the fantastic logic this board applies that Phil talking to players at practice is the reason we lost this game... get real.

The reason we lost this game is because we gave up 118 points and give up wide open 3's as if it's a philosophy of ours to do so. Our offense isn't great but, that will fix itself. There's too much talent on that end to not be at least average. It's the defense we should all be concerned with especially KP"s. If he continues to struggle covering stretch bigs then it's going to be a long season.

Our defense sucks because of this guy



He's got us practicing defense against the triangle, even though nobody runs the triangle except us

The players don't even respect this dude and we saw it last year when he was interim head coach. He shouldn't be an assistant coach, I don't even think Hornacek wanted him but we all know Phil Jackson insists he stays.

[Blockwatcher]

The only two teams still delusional enough to trade for Melo are the Cavs and Clippers. Melo can not guard the 3 at all. He is way too slow-footed to be on the perimeter. Our best short-term option is to move Melo to the 4, KP to 5 and bring Noah off the bench. Then, I think that it would be wise to entertain a Melo for Blake swap ASAP.

Melo for Blake <-------Doc's reaction

I meant to hit this last night...

Really though. Melo to the clippers makes the most sence. He can come off their bench and provided a huge role. BUT be ready to get back Jamal Crawford, Paul Peirce, and filler. Only positive would be 1 unprotected pick in the mid 20's.

I would sign for that RIGHT NOW

[BowlRips]

Serious flaws with this team.. The inability to defend is a serious flaw but could be corrected over time.
Having said that, I still think they will turn it around.
Schedules been tough and Rose is just getting back into form after his civil suit.
Give it 20 games before we can seriously right them off

[Fat Kat]

Also KP has 78 possible games to get better this year lol.

But nope it won't happen overnight. Santa Claus isn't real either.

The same can be said for the team as a whole, but that's not stopping the over the top reactions or the tank rhetoric. KP will improve and the team will improve. Let's just not pick and choose who can be criticized. KP is a big reason this team is struggling.

[Sark]

The only two teams still delusional enough to trade for Melo are the Cavs and Clippers. Melo can not guard the 3 at all. He is way too slow-footed to be on the perimeter. Our best short-term option is to move Melo to the 4, KP to 5 and bring Noah off the bench. Then, I think that it would be wise to entertain a Melo for Blake swap ASAP.

Melo for Blake <-------Doc's reaction

I meant to hit this last night...

Really though. Melo to the clippers makes the most sence. He can come off their bench and provided a huge role. BUT be ready to get back Jamal Crawford, Paul Peirce, and filler. Only positive would be 1 unprotected pick in the mid 20's.

I would sign for that RIGHT NOW

I would sign up for it yesterday.

[Knicksfan1992]

KP's usage doesn't impact his defense. It doesn't impact the fact that he simply just needs to turn on NBA 2k to understand the tendencies of the opponents he's defending. He doesn't need to read a scouting report to realize Ryan Anderson only shoots 3s and isn't a threat to drive. He doesn't need to watch film. He doesn't need the coach to tell him to dominate. He may end up being a beta, but as long as he makes an impact on the court, he'll be worth every penny he'll get.

And none of the above involves the triangle offense, pick-and-roll offense, Carmelo Anthony, Derrick Rose, or Joakim Noah.

These facts won't stop people from their agendas. Should the Knicks make a more concerned effort to get him the ball? Yes. But KP has to WANT the ball too... It's a 2 way street. Perfect example last night there was a specific play he grabs a freakish offensive rebound over RA and instead of bullying up and taking it right at him afterwards in a compromised position he waited a brief second and took a turn around fadeaway over a guy 5 inches shorter than him... I was furious. You gotta man the fuq up and get at dudes and show you're not a punk in the paint and then you'll get the ball more. KP seems content sitting in the mid-range area and the 3 point line and hoisting his jumpers. He'll make a nice career out of that but, won't even come close to his ceiling. I have faith in the kid and he has the right attitude away from the court. But he has to start imposing himself on it.

[DaGawd]

Also KP has 78 possible games to get better this year lol.

But nope it won't happen overnight. Santa Claus isn't real either.

The same can be said for the team as a whole, but that's not stopping the over the top reactions or the tank rhetoric. KP will improve and the team will improve. Let's just not pick and choose who can be criticized. KP is a big reason this team is struggling.

Except Rose Noah Melo and the other vets are largely already playing at the highest or close to it level they are capable of at this point in their careers... they wont get much better.. this team is what theyre showing us they are. Ass

[whocares1]

KP is trash. That is the Knicks' biggest problem.

Oh, shut up.

Ignore him. He's a Lin fanboy who has been trashing on KP for a while. Yes, whocares1, we know.

Lin fanboy? I like Lin but he's just a role player. KP doesn't "suck" my point was that if he doesn't become a star, then the Knicks don't have one redeeming quality on their roster for future seasons. Thus we have nothing to look forward to.

[Fat Kat]

Also KP has 79 possible games to get better this year lol.

But nope it won't happen overnight. Santa Claus isn't real either.

The same can be said for the team as a whole, but that's not stopping the over the top reactions or the tank rhetoric. KP will improve and the team will improve. Let's just not pick and choose who can be criticized. KP is a big reason this team is struggling.

Except Rose Noah Melo and the other vets are largely already playing at the highest or close to it level they are capable of at this point in their careers... they wont get much better.. this team is what theyre showing us they are. Ass

As is KP. At least the other players have shown us they are capable of playing at a high level on playoff teams. Porzingis is playing like a biatch. Let's not deflect from that point.

[ChaosHamster]

dolan is why kp is neither guarding his man or the lane. got it.

I see you're ignoring the positional issue. Continue. He is no man's land because he doesn't have the foot speed to close out and cover the penetrating man. It's a common issue with out of position bigs guarding the perimeter.

I mean, last year everyone was raving how good he can guard even the small guards in the perimeter. for a 7`3 guy.

And I certainly don't remember him guarding stretch fours being a big problem.

So I don't understand how people aren't seeing that this is overall team defense issue. Failed switches, zero communication on who should pick who in transition defense, him staying far off his guy when he is on the 3pt line, because he has an instruction from coaches to be closer to the paint all the time.

Remember, how last year they were switching in every PNR, so opposition team created mismatches left and right, but at least they weren't losing guys that often as this team.

And how can people even assume KP is that dumb, that he doesn't know Anderson, or pretty much every 4 in the league, can hit 3, so he leaves them wide open. Or he knows.. but just decides to **** it, let them shoot.

I mean, all those things, miss communication, failed switches, him not founding balance between being a paint presence and guarding a 3pt line, is also his fault. But people are ignoring the overall team issues hard here...

[xNewYorkMadex]

I missed the 2nd half last night, so I just watched it now.

It was clear since we didnt have a defensive gameplan, Hornacek told the team to basically switch everything. Saw alot of KP or Noah on Harden, and the small guards on Capela and Anderson. The communication on D is just not there. If you are switching everything, players really shouldnt be open. But because of pure laziness and people not talking on D, Rockets got tons of easy buckets in the paint.

I will say, Melo is atrocious on D. His leadership on the floor is awful. Hes another one like Brandon Jennings on D. Melo is INCREDIBLY lazy on defense. He never puts the blame on himself for poor D and thinks its someone elses fault. One prime example was when he let Ariza cut to the rim uncontested. Rose was guarding Gordon (?) at the corner 3, for some reason Melo tells Rose to guard Ariza who doesnt even have the ball, and Melo goes to focus on Harden but Melo is actually in no mans land guarding literally no one, Ariza cuts to the rim uncontested for an easy bucket. Next trip down Melo yells at Rose for not guarding Ariza, but its Melo's own damn fault for trying to switch for no reason at all.

Melo needs to get his head out of his ass on D.

KP's problem is just a mix of poor communication and sagging off way too much. I dont remember KP having problems guarding PF's last season. He can do it. He simply is helping too much sometimes. Because Hornacek told the team to switch everything, KP would switch everything and Lee would stay on Harden and thus it left Anderson open again and again. Guys need to talk out there. Too many people are assuming instead of talking.

Guys need to start holding eachother accountable. Noah hasnt been great defensively either, but I trust him and Lee more than anyone on the team on knowing what the team is supposed to do on D. We have a bunch of new players, but we cant walk around eggshells with Melo. Gotta call him out on his bs. KP has been trash too, but KP's mistakes are more on bad reads and miscommunication which can be fixed. Melo's mistakes are pure laziness and we cant have that.

I expect the team to switch everything on defense against Chicago too. We really dont have a defensive gameplan at all. People can talk about the offense all they want, doesnt matter if Rose, Melo and KP all average 25 PPG on beautiful efficiency. The defense will bury this team.

[dakomish23]

People crucifying KP need to look at their boy Melo. KP was fronted Melo couldnt even throw a lob pass into him with Ariza on him. KP was not passed to with Ariza on him on another play when Melo decided to just shoot the 3. No one is looking for KP.

The guys simply have to play team ball and look for the mismatches. Horny even said they dont look for him enough. The guy is 7'3 rockets had no answers yet he had no FG's. People would say he's soft but KP did not get a damn pass when in position a bunch of times.

Melo gets post positiona nd gets it damn near every time. Black hole!

Also the standing around needs to stop when Melo and Rose makes a move. Rose drove a bunch of times but has no one to pass it to it gets annoying.

When KP played with just Melo he did well

When KP played with just Jennings he did well

When KP played with both he did well

Tell me how has KP done with DRose?

How can anyone, even the KP is God crew, not see how terrible DRose is for this starting lineup???!!!

The proof as always is what we have seen on the court. That 4th quarter where KP started shows life till DRose called two ISO plays for himself could not be a better example of what you will see happen to KP as long as DRose is on the floor.

Blame Melo!!!

[Sprewell4Three]

The same can be said for the team as a whole, but that's not stopping the over the top reactions or the tank rhetoric. KP will improve and the team will improve. Let's just not pick and choose who can be criticized. KP is a big reason this team is struggling.

Except Rose Noah Melo and the other vets are largely already playing at the highest or close to it level they are capable of at this point in their careers... they wont get much better.. this team is what theyre showing us they are. Ass

As is KP. At least the other players have shown us they are capable of playing at a high level on playoff teams. Porzingis is playing like a biatch. Let's not deflect from that point.

What do you mean paying like a biatch? Did you see the other 3 games where he scored 21, 18 and 16? He had a freaking bad game against the Rockets. Whooptiedoo

[whocares1]

dolan is why kp is neither guarding his man or the lane. got it.

I see you're ignoring the positional issue. Continue. He is no man's land because he doesn't have the foot speed to close out and cover the penetrating man. It's a common issue with out of position bigs guarding the perimeter.

I mean, last year everyone was raving how good he can guard even the small guards in the perimeter. for a 7`3 guy.

And I certainly don't remember him guarding stretch fours being a big problem.

So I don't understand how people aren't seeing that this is overall team defense issue. Failed switches, zero communication on who should pick who in transition defense, him staying far off his guy when he is on the 3pt line, because he has an instruction from coaches to be closer to the paint all the time.

Remember, how last year they were switching in every PNR, so opposition team created mismatches left and right, but at least they weren't losing guys that often as this team.

And how can people even assume KP is that dumb, that he doesn't know Anderson, or pretty much every 4 in the league, can hit 3, so he leaves them wide open. Or he knows.. but just decides to **** it, let them shoot.

I mean, all those things, miss communication, failed switches, him not founding balance between being a paint presence and guarding a 3pt line, is also his fault. But people are ignoring the overall team issues hard here...

No he had problems guarding the perimeter last year too. It just was hidden a little better because the overall defense was better last season especially with Fisher. I was hoping he'd come into the season ready to play most of the time at the 5, but he gained no muscle whatsoever.

[mrcalzone]

Really. You can't turn on KP after 4 games this season. He is the franchise's best shot of any legitimacy. He isn't playing well and he is obviously getting lost on defense, but it's still early in the season and early in his development.

I do think that Kurt Rambis is toxic and has any team had a successful or winning record with him on the coaching staff(either as HC or an assistant?) I think he needs to DL some asian porn and go away.

[BeagleBoss]

I love the fantastic logic this board applies that Phil talking to players at practice is the reason we lost this game... get real.

The reason we lost this game is because we gave up 118 points and give up wide open 3's as if it's a philosophy of ours to do so. Our offense isn't great but, that will fix itself. There's too much talent on that end to not be at least average. It's the defense we should all be concerned with especially KP"s. If he continues to struggle covering stretch bigs then it's going to be a long season.

And you don't think Phil insisting on running an expired, too slow, predictable offense has a lot to do with it? If players aren't comfortable and happy playing offense, they are not going to try their best on defense.

[F N 11]

People crucifying KP need to look at their boy Melo. KP was fronted Melo couldnt even throw a lob pass into him with Ariza on him. KP was not passed to with Ariza on him on another play when Melo decided to just shoot the 3. No one is looking for KP.

The guys simply have to play team ball and look for the mismatches. Horny even said they dont look for him enough. The guy is 7'3 rockets had no answers yet he had no FG's. People would say he's soft but KP did not get a damn pass when in position a bunch of times.

Melo gets post positiona nd gets it damn near every time. Black hole!

Also the standing around needs to stop when Melo and Rose makes a move. Rose drove a bunch of times but has no one to pass it to it gets annoying.

When KP played with just Melo he did well

When KP played with just Jennings he did well

When KP played with both he did well

Tell me how has KP done with DRose?

How can anyone, even the KP is God crew, not see how terrible DRose is for this starting lineup???!!!

The proof as always is what we have seen on the court. That 4th quarter where KP started shows life till DRose called two ISO plays for himself could not be a better example of what you will see happen to KP as long as DRose is on the floor.

Blame Melo!!!

I said in the post above that no one moves around when Rose and Melo goes to work. Melo even more blatant because its always a jump shot.

Yes Melo is one to blame. You have a new team yet you force it for yourself instead of the mismatch in KP vs Ariza. He would take Ariza but cant pass to KP on Ariza? Frustrating. Theres a lot of blame to be passed around but there was about 4 alarming plays by Melo.

-1 on 4 did not pass when it was a double. Drove into the quadruple team.
-Dribbled up court like its 2k without knowing his surrounding and got it stolen by Brewer
-Ariza fronted KP with no post help and Melo could not, I repeat could not throw a simple lob pass leading to an easy dunk.
-Ariza on KP again Melo settles for the long contested 3

Thats unacceptable at least when Rose chucks its a drive to the basket.Eventually the floor will be spread and Rose can make some plays. Clear as day he is trying to submit to ISO Melo. He hasnt found his rhythm passing yet. You dont just lose passing ability, guys have to maneuver around with you.

[Wharton Alum 08]

Also KP has 79 possible games to get better this year lol.

But nope it won't happen overnight. Santa Claus isn't real either.

The same can be said for the team as a whole, but that's not stopping the over the top reactions or the tank rhetoric. KP will improve and the team will improve. Let's just not pick and choose who can be criticized. KP is a big reason this team is struggling.

Except Rose Noah Melo and the other vets are largely already playing at the highest or close to it level they are capable of at this point in their careers... they wont get much better.. this team is what theyre showing us they are. Ass

Noah doesn't have any lift. The thing that's throwing me off is Rose doing nothing but getting attempts at the rim and not shooting 1 FT. He gets 2 calls (and that's modest) yesterday and his line looks so much better 8-16 with 20 but he's getting so much contact and no call