The difference in offenses in the Cavs game

[Nemesis21]

Vuc's screens are terrible compared to what Biz brings.

I also disagree that Gordon is "built to play the 3". He can easily play 4 and did very well at it. Skiles had him guarding C's some games and he was killing it.

The reason I want to trade Vuc for a SF is because he will hate coming off the bench and want to get moved anyway. Plus we need more offense. We have needed a SF for a very long time.

Yes the immediate fix is to start Biz and spread Ibaka out on offense. But when Gordon is at the 4 he really was doing some great stuff on offense. Most bigger 4's dont want to chase him out to the line and he was getting great open looks.

which sf do you want vucevic to trade for?

http://www.espn.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=gvgntbt


Vooch, Meeks and 2017 unprotected 1st round pick for George.

Pacers would have 2 1st rd picks next draft, they could use them to move into top 5(2 picks plus a player, IE Brooks,Teague, Ellis, Stuckey) to possibly get one of Josh Jackson, Jayson Tatum, Markell Fultz, Jonathan Isaac.



EP/DJ
Fournier/Hezonja
George/Green
AG/Rudez
Ibaka/Biz



Teague/Brooks
Ellis/Meeks
top 5/Miles
Young/Jefferson
Turner/Vooch

[Def Swami]

Bump.

Zach Lowe's Ten Things I Like and Don't Like:
7. The Magic's clogged toilet spacing

Orlando's spacing is as bad as advertised. Where in the hell is Evan Fournier supposed to go on this pick-and-roll, with defenders sagging off Nikola Vucevic, Aaron Gordon, and Elfrid Payton?



Gordon looks nothing like Paul George, as the Magic promised he might; he's 0-of-6 out of the pick-and-roll across four games, per Synergy. The offense has cratered with Bismack Biyombo on the floor; the Biyombo-Vucevic double-center look has predictably been a disaster, and the vaunted Biyombo-Ibaka combo hasn't worked -- yet.

Neither of those two can post up, so teams are fine switching smaller guys onto them if it neuters a Magic pick-and-roll. They aren't natural playmakers on the move. By the time they spot a crease for a pass or drive, it's already closed.

It's early, and the Magic have faced solid defensive teams. They will figure some things out. But all the worries about their lack of shooting have manifested. When you're playing C.J. Watson in crunch time to generate some spacing, and going offense-defense with Gordon, you've got issues.

http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/17950115/zach-lowe-10-things-like

[Nemesis21]

Bump.

Zach Lowe's Ten Things I Like and Don't Like:
7. The Magic's clogged toilet spacing

Orlando's spacing is as bad as advertised. Where in the hell is Evan Fournier supposed to go on this pick-and-roll, with defenders sagging off Nikola Vucevic, Aaron Gordon, and Elfrid Payton?



Gordon looks nothing like Paul George, as the Magic promised he might; he's 0-of-6 out of the pick-and-roll across four games, per Synergy. The offense has cratered with Bismack Biyombo on the floor; the Biyombo-Vucevic double-center look has predictably been a disaster, and the vaunted Biyombo-Ibaka combo hasn't worked -- yet.

Neither of those two can post up, so teams are fine switching smaller guys onto them if it neuters a Magic pick-and-roll. They aren't natural playmakers on the move. By the time they spot a crease for a pass or drive, it's already closed.

It's early, and the Magic have faced solid defensive teams. They will figure some things out. But all the worries about their lack of shooting have manifested. When you're playing C.J. Watson in crunch time to generate some spacing, and going offense-defense with Gordon, you've got issues.

http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/17950115/zach-lowe-10-things-like

Hopefully we get it figured out.

[fendilim]

I don't even know if it's a necessity to change the starting lineup, to be honest. We just need to pick one of Vuc and Ibaka to be inside and one to be outside on all plays. I think both Vuc and Ibaka have decent enough range that we can and should be using them as 3pt shooters when the opportunities arise, but they won't arise as long as both of them are inside the arc.

Vuc playing from the perimeter is probably optimal because he also has fantastic passing from there. But then, Ibaka is the more established 3pt shooter between the two, and I'd imagine Vuc is probably the better post player between the two (although Ibaka has shown some real promise when he bothers to get in there).

Swapping Vuc for Biz is the other option, which I think would work equally well.

We just need screens, screens and more screens, and space for players to operate.

Or, sure, you can run Gordon at the 4 and bring in another SF, but I'd imagine that's just going to result in taking the ball out of Gordon's hands and limiting him to cuts and clean ups around the rim, especially since he's not a post up guy. That, to me, is just a waste of his potential.

He's good at that, why shouldn't we put him at the best position for him to succeed?

[BadMofoPimp]

Vuc's screens are terrible compared to what Biz brings.

I also disagree that Gordon is "built to play the 3". He can easily play 4 and did very well at it. Skiles had him guarding C's some games and he was killing it.

The reason I want to trade Vuc for a SF is because he will hate coming off the bench and want to get moved anyway. Plus we need more offense. We have needed a SF for a very long time.

Yes the immediate fix is to start Biz and spread Ibaka out on offense. But when Gordon is at the 4 he really was doing some great stuff on offense. Most bigger 4's dont want to chase him out to the line and he was getting great open looks.

which sf do you want vucevic to trade for?

http://www.espn.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=gvgntbt


Vooch, Meeks and 2017 unprotected 1st round pick for George.

Pacers would have 2 1st rd picks next draft, they could use them to move into top 5(2 picks plus a player, IE Brooks,Teague, Ellis, Stuckey) to possibly get one of Josh Jackson, Jayson Tatum, Markell Fultz, Jonathan Isaac.



EP/DJ
Fournier/Hezonja
George/Green
AG/Rudez
Ibaka/Biz



Teague/Brooks
Ellis/Meeks
top 5/Miles
Young/Jefferson
Turner/Vooch

Not a chance.

It would take Vooch/AG/Mario and next years first at the very least if not more.

[Bensational]

Or, sure, you can run Gordon at the 4 and bring in another SF, but I'd imagine that's just going to result in taking the ball out of Gordon's hands and limiting him to cuts and clean ups around the rim, especially since he's not a post up guy. That, to me, is just a waste of his potential.

He's good at that, why shouldn't we put him at the best position for him to succeed?

We already are using him that way, and giving him the opportunity to learn to create offends off the dribble.

So essentially what you're saying is you want to stop trying to develop a 21 year old player?

[fendilim]

Or, sure, you can run Gordon at the 4 and bring in another SF, but I'd imagine that's just going to result in taking the ball out of Gordon's hands and limiting him to cuts and clean ups around the rim, especially since he's not a post up guy. That, to me, is just a waste of his potential.

He's good at that, why shouldn't we put him at the best position for him to succeed?

We already are using him that way, and giving him the opportunity to learn to create offends off the dribble.

So essentially what you're saying is you want to stop trying to develop a 21 year old player?

I don't see why we should give him a bigger role until he can prove that he can create and score more consistently.

Until then, I'd want to see more of what produces the higher percentage to win basketball games and not experimental plays.

[BadMofoPimp]

Or, sure, you can run Gordon at the 4 and bring in another SF, but I'd imagine that's just going to result in taking the ball out of Gordon's hands and limiting him to cuts and clean ups around the rim, especially since he's not a post up guy. That, to me, is just a waste of his potential.

He's good at that, why shouldn't we put him at the best position for him to succeed?

We already are using him that way, and giving him the opportunity to learn to create offends off the dribble.

So essentially what you're saying is you want to stop trying to develop a 21 year old player?

I think he is suggesting developing Gordon primarily as a Power Forward.

[PennytoShaq]

Bump.

Zach Lowe's Ten Things I Like and Don't Like:
7. The Magic's clogged toilet spacing

Orlando's spacing is as bad as advertised. Where in the hell is Evan Fournier supposed to go on this pick-and-roll, with defenders sagging off Nikola Vucevic, Aaron Gordon, and Elfrid Payton?



Gordon looks nothing like Paul George, as the Magic promised he might; he's 0-of-6 out of the pick-and-roll across four games, per Synergy. The offense has cratered with Bismack Biyombo on the floor; the Biyombo-Vucevic double-center look has predictably been a disaster, and the vaunted Biyombo-Ibaka combo hasn't worked -- yet.

Neither of those two can post up, so teams are fine switching smaller guys onto them if it neuters a Magic pick-and-roll. They aren't natural playmakers on the move. By the time they spot a crease for a pass or drive, it's already closed.

It's early, and the Magic have faced solid defensive teams. They will figure some things out. But all the worries about their lack of shooting have manifested. When you're playing C.J. Watson in crunch time to generate some spacing, and going offense-defense with Gordon, you've got issues.

http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/17950115/zach-lowe-10-things-like

Yeah this is the problem. No spacing at all. I have to imagine the staff sees this and wants to fix it.