Knicks-Rockets PG: Who didn't see this coming?

[HEZI]

Then Noah has to move his ass faster down the court. Again, if you want to rip KP for getting burned by stretch 4s (which is fine), then don't complain about his rim protection.

Actually I can complain about both because he's been awful in every part of defense this season.

He's been bad, but not worse than Rose, Melo, or Lee. KP has a dbpm of -1.8. Melo is -3.1, Lee is -4.2, and Rose is -4.5. They all suck on defense except for Noah who is +1.7.

You can throw those numbers in the trash because they mean nothing. KP is the main culprit for playing terrible defense and it's throwing everybody off. Defense needs to be played as a unit and all it takes is one guy not knowing what he's doing for it to fall apart. That one guy who is causing it all to fall apart is Kristaps Porzingis.

[Capn'O]

Phil has control no matter what.

Melo: "TRADE ME!!!"
Phil: "No"

Melo: "K"

You jumped ahead to step two.

Dude, there's not a player in the league, Lebron included, that can force a gm or owner to make a move they don't want to. A NTC allows a player to deny a trade, not force one, hence the name NO TRADE CLAUSE. It's not FTC, FORCE TRADE CLAUSE.

First off, LeBron has forced the Cavs to do plenty of stuff they didn't want to but that's beside the point.

You're still on Step 2 of what would happen if Step 1 occurs. Step 1 is:

Melo has to ask to be traded

I'll even lower the bar to "Melo has to consent to be traded" to get to Step 2. Then, at Step 2, Phil has some control over where he goes and for what. Until we get to Step 2, talk of a Melo trade is moot. And we are not there.

[whocares1]

Actually I can complain about both because he's been awful in every part of defense this season.

He's been bad, but not worse than Rose, Melo, or Lee. KP has a dbpm of -1.8. Melo is -3.1, Lee is -4.2, and Rose is -4.5. They all suck on defense except for Noah who is +1.7.

You can throw those numbers in the trash because they mean nothing. KP is the main culprit for playing terrible defense and it's throwing everybody off. Defense needs to be played as a unit and all it takes is one guy not knowing what he's doing for it to fall apart. That one guy who is causing it all to fall apart is Kristaps Porzingis.

He isn't the main culprit. The defense was terrible in the 4th against the Pistons while he was on the bench. He is just one of the culprit.

[HEZI]

He's been bad, but not worse than Rose, Melo, or Lee. KP has a dbpm of -1.8. Melo is -3.1, Lee is -4.2, and Rose is -4.5. They all suck on defense except for Noah who is +1.7.

You can throw those numbers in the trash because they mean nothing. KP is the main culprit for playing terrible defense and it's throwing everybody off. Defense needs to be played as a unit and all it takes is one guy not knowing what he's doing for it to fall apart. That one guy who is causing it all to fall apart is Kristaps Porzingis.

He isn't the main culprit. The defense was terrible in the 4th against the Pistons while he was on the bench. He is just one of the culprit.

It was actually the opposite, the defense was on point in the 4th and the Pistons were held to only 16 points in the entire quarter, and that was because Porzingis was on the bench. The problem in the 4th was they couldn't score a basket on the offensive side, but defensively they shut down the Pistons. Porzingis was on the bench the entire quarter until only 3 minutes in the game. Proves my point

The sad part is that the Knicks were actually within 3-5 points the entire time Porzingis was on the bench, but when he came back in the Pistons went on a run and the lead ballooned up to 10, after KCP hit a 3 pointer. Do you want to guess who he hit that shot on after being left wide open? If you guessed Porzingis then you would be correct.

[blueNorange]

Actually I can complain about both because he's been awful in every part of defense this season.

He's been bad, but not worse than Rose, Melo, or Lee. KP has a dbpm of -1.8. Melo is -3.1, Lee is -4.2, and Rose is -4.5. They all suck on defense except for Noah who is +1.7.

You can throw those numbers in the trash because they mean nothing. KP is the main culprit for playing terrible defense and it's throwing everybody off. Defense needs to be played as a unit and all it takes is one guy not knowing what he's doing for it to fall apart. That one guy who is causing it all to fall apart is Kristaps Porzingis.

didn't you show me those exact same stats when saying gallinari is the worst defensive player in the nba?

[HEZI]

He's been bad, but not worse than Rose, Melo, or Lee. KP has a dbpm of -1.8. Melo is -3.1, Lee is -4.2, and Rose is -4.5. They all suck on defense except for Noah who is +1.7.

You can throw those numbers in the trash because they mean nothing. KP is the main culprit for playing terrible defense and it's throwing everybody off. Defense needs to be played as a unit and all it takes is one guy not knowing what he's doing for it to fall apart. That one guy who is causing it all to fall apart is Kristaps Porzingis.

didn't you show me those exact same stats when saying gallinari is the worst defensive player in the nba?

No I didn't I kept telling you that from my point of view and you said I was the only one to see it that way and that's when I brought in the numbers to back it up. You are the one who called Gallinari a 2 way player so do you really want to go there again?

[Icandoallthings]

If anyone listens to the Locked on Nba podcast in their preview on the Knicks they mentioned that the team does not have a single player who had an above average offensive efficiency. They essentially were predicting that the offense would be incredibly bad if not historically bad. Honestly the core of this team Melo, Rose Noah is a clown show. The difference between a current superstar player like Harden and a former superstar like Melo is massive. Harden can find a way to bring it almost every single night Melo maybe every 5 games. Rose is a 6MOTY candidate dressed up as a starting PG for Halloween. Noah for all his talk about hard work and toughness still cant shoot a bunny. This team still doesn't have a real PG or a true franchise player. KP needs to be the 5 because he sure as hell cant play the 4. Noah can play spot minutes but he needs to be working with a shooting coach 3-4 hrs a day.

[Vash]

To be honest.... Ron Baker needs minutes... Along with Plumlee... They might have limited talent... but these boys are smart... make the right plays... play great defense... and hustle the entire time they are out on the floor...

Trust me Knick fans on this board are not that bright. I agree with Ron Baker and Plumlee and lets see what Mingus can do.

But nope, people on the Knicks board, 60%-70% of them thought Melo, Marbury, Francis, Crawford, Curry, Noah were all good moves. It's as if those fans are running the Knicks at this point. Those fans will always clamor for loser players.

Right thing to do is to trade Melo if you can and surround KP with team players who move the ball, but like that 60%-70% of Knick fans, it's always someone else and never Melo.

So what is happening to KP is he's posting up and not being rewarded. In fact all that the KNicks are doing is giving into Melo. He posts up, he MUST get the ball and that is why the KNicks suck. Remember how he REFUSED to play D'Toni's system and pouted on the court and ALWAYS broke plays.

Guess what D'Toni was right and so was George Karl.

If the Knicks are going to lose, might as well lose playing team ball, rather than a lackluster no effort, hard to watch game.

[Rotten Apple]

He's been bad, but not worse than Rose, Melo, or Lee. KP has a dbpm of -1.8. Melo is -3.1, Lee is -4.2, and Rose is -4.5. They all suck on defense except for Noah who is +1.7.

You can throw those numbers in the trash because they mean nothing. KP is the main culprit for playing terrible defense and it's throwing everybody off. Defense needs to be played as a unit and all it takes is one guy not knowing what he's doing for it to fall apart. That one guy who is causing it all to fall apart is Kristaps Porzingis.

He isn't the main culprit. The defense was terrible in the 4th against the Pistons while he was on the bench. He is just one of the culprit.

He's been our worst defender by far this season.

[Sark]

[Rotten Apple]

All you dudes who post this ball movement and team ball bs are hypocrites because you're the same posters who cry about Porzingis not shooting every time down the floor.

Y'all don't want team ball y'all want Porzingis and only Porzingis ball.

[NOOB77]

Preach!

I agree, the responsibility falls on everybody. You have to be alert and aware all the time,

How about last night man, when Porzingis kept giving Harden layups/dunks

Watch on YouTube

Look at Porzingis just lay out the carpet for Harden to go to the basket. This is just not acceptable

Lee looks so mad at him.

Please check Melo's effort on that play -- that is Westbrook/Jordan like effort and help from Melo -- this is what team should strive for.

Melo actually made the right play by staying on his man in that situation KP should have cut Harden off. If Melo cuts Harden off then it is an open 3. Melo was actually guarding someone. KP was just standing there watching Harden go right past him while guarding nobody. But lets blame Melo.

What is so hard about saying KP **** the bed that play? Why do you guys feel the need to defend everything? He played horrible yesterday don't look to blame everyone else. Probably the worst game in his young career. He played bad it happens learn from it move on and grow as a player. But you don't need to try to shift blame to others. KP had a crappy game made tons of mistakes deal with it and move on.

[K_ick_God]

There's no excuse really for bad D -- I didn't see the game but if KP is just standing around, that's either his conditioning, coaching, or something is going wrong altogether. But on O, he does have limited moves for now (he has a nice post game that he should get back to and I'm sure his face-up moves will get much better). However, passiveness on O is not the worst thing in the world for a young player.

Sometimes you need very hard shots to bail you out. But that's not KP's job and he should err on the side of not launching bad shots. Those players are ... problematic, even if they can make a few but take them when their team doesn't even need to be bailed out. They're just taking impulse shots.

And it's one of the reasons that as Melo ages, he's getting unbearable to watch. Stop playing like you're 27.

[NewEra]

Melo in his feelings

[NOOB77]

There's no excuse really for bad D -- I didn't see the game but if KP is just standing around, that's either his conditioning, coaching, or something is going wrong altogether. But on O, he does have limited moves for now (he has a nice post game that he should get back to and I'm sure his face-up moves will get much better). However, passiveness on O is not the worst thing in the world for a young player.

Sometimes you need very hard shots to bail you out. But that's not KP's job and he should err on the side of not launching bad shots. Those players are ... problematic, even if they can make a few but take them when their team doesn't even need to be bailed out. They're just taking impulse shots.

And it's one of the reasons that as Melo ages, he's getting unbearable to watch. Stop playing like you're 27.

The only thing I don't like to see on offense from KP is when he gets a play ran for him on a pinch post or even in the post he is allow smaller defenders to push him way off his spot instead of holding his ground. It was way to easy for Harris (Pistons) game to move KP where ever he wanted. He isn't taking advantage of his size.

One other think is he has to pick is spots to be aggressive especially with the second unit with Rose and Melo on the bench. He needs to be the focal point then.

[Phish Tank]

To be honest.... Ron Baker needs minutes... Along with Plumlee... They might have limited talent... but these boys are smart... make the right plays... play great defense... and hustle the entire time they are out on the floor...

Trust me Knick fans on this board are not that bright. I agree with Ron Baker and Plumlee and lets see what Mingus can do.

But nope, people on the Knicks board, 60%-70% of them thought Melo, Marbury, Francis, Crawford, Curry, Noah were all good moves. It's as if those fans are running the Knicks at this point. Those fans will always clamor for loser players.

Right thing to do is to trade Melo if you can and surround KP with team players who move the ball, but like that 60%-70% of Knick fans, it's always someone else and never Melo.

So what is happening to KP is he's posting up and not being rewarded. In fact all that the KNicks are doing is giving into Melo. He posts up, he MUST get the ball and that is why the KNicks suck. Remember how he REFUSED to play D'Toni's system and pouted on the court and ALWAYS broke plays.

Guess what D'Toni was right and so was George Karl.

If the Knicks are going to lose, might as well lose playing team ball, rather than a lackluster no effort, hard to watch game.

why you back?

[HEZI]

All you dudes who post this ball movement and team ball bs are hypocrites because you're the same posters who cry about Porzingis not shooting every time down the floor.

Y'all don't want team ball y'all want Porzingis and only Porzingis ball.

He can't even make free throws

[reub]

At least if Plumlee were in the game and somebody had an easy layup he'd flatten them and make them think twice about the next time.

[cayuck]

So much apocalyptic talk on this board. D'antoni's run and gun 3pt shooting rockets were a horrible matchup for Knicks and all the early chemistry problems were magnified.

Knicks matchup much better with the 2pt shooting bulls. It will be funny if the Knicks beat the bulls, who have gotten off to a decent start, and this entire board 180's into playoff title mode with people making arguments for why we will beat the warriors. Give this team 20-30 games before deciding if they are a failure, can compete, or have an identity. It's been 4 games...

[K_ick_God]

All you dudes who post this ball movement and team ball bs are hypocrites because you're the same posters who cry about Porzingis not shooting every time down the floor.

Y'all don't want team ball y'all want Porzingis and only Porzingis ball.

He can't even make free throws

He shot 84% last year. You prefer to cherrypick 4 games and 20 FTs?