The (Where Ainges Fear to) Trade Thread, 2016-17 (1.0)

[DarkAzcura]

ya maybe you'd have to include crowder, so what? You wanna win games or do you want to win championships?

You're gonna have to give up a lot to get a superstar. You need superstars to win championships. Crowder isn't leading you to a championship. If he's one of the pieces that needs to be included, so be it.

It's your choice, you can go the Detroit pistons route and hope to win a championship that way. It's happened once in 69 NBA championships. Good luck..

Nah man they wanted Crowder, #3 from last year and the BKN 2017 pick at least. You don't empty the cupboard for Butler when you've got other options. Don't blow your load too early.

I don't think Butler is 2 top 5 picks better than Crowder. I'll take Crowder, Brown and Giles and see what happens.

But the point is, that there wasn't a clear trade for 2017 BKN for a superstar. Only Butler was rumored to be available and the price was too high. It's not like they had a plethora of options at their feet and turned their nose up at them.

Your information is wrong my friend. It was mentioned many times in the media how Ainge is being really picky with trades. Trying to fleece teams like he did for Thomas and Crowder and other Gms aren't having it.

Boston has the pieces to bring in a superstar, but your GM is too picky in trades. In the long run it's going to cost the franchise as I mentioned.

Didn't pick up a cheap option or try to trade Sully on a rookie deal(no roster space, had to let him go)

Cut a 1st round pick with 3 years left on a rookie deal(RJ Hunter, no roster space, lost him for nothing)

Is going to probably have to let Kelly walk next off-season...maybe Mickey doesn't get his option picked up either to make room for the 4 draft picks and potential "Max Player free agent"

Another two first round picks, walking for nothing....

The longer you wait to make a trade not only do you continue to lose assets but like I said, I believe BK will over achieve this year and that asset will decrease. You underestimate how many teams will tank come mid-season. BK is going to beat those teams every time.

lol the Ainge wants rip people off is an invention of the national media. Absolutely no one on this planet thought Ainge was ripping teams off when he traded for Crowder with Rondo. Pure revisionist history.

The Celtics tried trading 4 first round picks in 2015 to pick up the 9th-10th pick..only moving up 5-6 spots, they were willing to trade their 16th pick, a 15th pick from a side deal from ATL, and probably either the 2016 or 2018 BKN pick. Do you think Ainge was trying to rip people off in that deal?

Most people thought Ainge got ripped when trading Perkins, Pierce, KG, etc. it's only ever in retrospect that people are saying WOW, Ainge ripped that team off!

Supposedly, the Bulls asked for the 2016 BKN pick, Bradley, and Crowder for Butler. Pure rip off if true from the Bulls. Butler is not that good. Our information isn't incorrect just because you read a different article than us. No one really knows the demands. To me, it seems like teams are trying to get more than usual from the Celtics just because they believe the Celtics can afford it, which is pure junk. Teams are probably floating information out there that the Celtics are trying to rip teams off just because we aren't giving them (Philly and Chicago) all of our assets for their overrated stars/players (Butler, Noel, Okafor).

[SMTBSI]

Your information is wrong my friend. It was mentioned many times in the media how Ainge is being really picky with trades. Trying to fleece teams like he did for Thomas and Crowder and other Gms aren't having it.

Boston has the pieces to bring in a superstar, but your GM is too picky in trades. In the long run it's going to cost the franchise as I mentioned.

lol the Ainge wants rip people off is an invention of the national media. Absolutely no one on this planet thought Ainge was ripping teams off when he traded for Crowder with Rondo. Pure revisionist history.

I love how a bunch of rumors and rumblings and salty fan blog posts just became fact.

Doesn't matter if it's actually true that Ainge is being unrealistic in trade negotiations, everybody knows it's true, and, therefore, it is.

We don't really know a darned thing about what goes on behind those closed doors, except what someone with an agenda wants us to believe, but we shouldn't let that get in the way of a good conspiracy theory.

[Andrew McCeltic]

Max free agent and a home run lotto pick, yeah, we're probably set. Botched pick, no max free agent, different story.

I think rolling over our cap space again makes sense, *but*...

Rozier or Olynyk (or Smart) for Noel, moving Olynyk for a rookie-scale guy (could we do Olynyk, Young for Nurkic?) keeps us cap neutral...

We could also potentially do better on the trade market with our expirings than we could in free agency.. Between Amir, Zeller and Jerebko, the offers on the table (Vucevic? Hayward? Rudy Gay? Enes Kanter?) could be better than who's left next summer, if we don't get Blake Griffin.

I'm sure Danny will explore all options including trades. However, I heard they are pretty confident that they can land Hayward via free agency this summer. He is a target that may, or may not be their 1st option, but either way they feel like there is mutual interest between both parties there. With that said, would they prefer to sign Hayward and then package our pick with a couple guys to go after another star? That would form a BIG 4 of sorts. IT, Horford, Hayward and then player X acquired in a big trade. Plus whatever is left out of the the following group: Bradley, Crowder, Rozier, Brown, Smart, etc.

Hayward's a good player.

But think about letting Amir, Zeller and Jerebko expire, signing Hayward, extending Olynyk and trading the BKN 17 and another couple of players for a star. (Who?)

Then consider alternatives: Amir/Rozier for Faried/Nurkic; Crowder/Jerebko for Hayward, or Rudy Gay/Mclemore. If we're willing to go over the cap, we could make out better than from saving a max cap slot.

FWIW I don't think Hayward leaves Utah and if he does, we're still playing the odds we can get him.

[cl2117]

Your information is wrong my friend. It was mentioned many times in the media how Ainge is being really picky with trades. Trying to fleece teams like he did for Thomas and Crowder and other Gms aren't having it.

Boston has the pieces to bring in a superstar, but your GM is too picky in trades. In the long run it's going to cost the franchise as I mentioned.

Didn't pick up a cheap option or try to trade Sully on a rookie deal(no roster space, had to let him go)

Cut a 1st round pick with 3 years left on a rookie deal(RJ Hunter, no roster space, lost him for nothing)

Is going to probably have to let Kelly walk next off-season...maybe Mickey doesn't get his option picked up either to make room for the 4 draft picks and potential "Max Player free agent"

Another two first round picks, walking for nothing....

The longer you wait to make a trade not only do you continue to lose assets but like I said, I believe BK will over achieve this year and that asset will decrease. You underestimate how many teams will tank come mid-season. BK is going to beat those teams every time.

I'm pretty sure my information is right, but I guess I'll take the word of a salty Raptors fan that it's not instead...

The fact that you can't name a single trade that should have gone down is proof enough that you in fact have no clue what you're talking about. It's definitely our GM being too picky in trades which is why the Celtics haven't completed a trade for a star...

I mean just look at all the examples reported by the same media that he passed up on superstar trades because he's being too picky. Oh wait there aren't any. Unless you can name a single one outside of Butler, which I've already explained was viewed as a massive overpay had it gone down. I'll wait....

You the North? Do us a favor and stay on that side of the border and realgm. That is until you get the right information my friend.

[bigfoot_cryptozoology]

Thinking outside the box... I don't think the Melo to the Celtics window is quite over yet, but it would mean the Celtics giving up on signing an impact Free Agent and Boston really seems to want to participate in Free Agency. However, a Horford - Brown - Melo - Bradley - IT rotation would be intriguing, and there is the possibility of moving Melo and the 2017 Nets pick for a younger star in Griffin.

So, a trade along the lines of Crowder - Rozier - Amir - Jerebko - 2018 Celtics Pick - 2019 Memphis Pick for Melo and Quinn would work.

[Celts17Pride]

Thinking outside the box... I don't think the Melo to the Celtics window is quite over yet, but it would mean the Celtics giving up on signing an impact Free Agent and Boston really seems to want to participate in Free Agency. However, a Horford - Brown - Melo - Bradley - IT rotation would be intriguing, and there is the possibility of moving Melo and the 2017 Nets pick for a younger star in Griffin.

So, a trade along the lines of Crowder - Rozier - Amir - Jerebko - 2018 Celtics Pick - 2019 Memphis Pick for Melo and Quinn would work.

The Melo ship has sailed.

[Writebloc]

Thinking outside the box... I don't think the Melo to the Celtics window is quite over yet, but it would mean the Celtics giving up on signing an impact Free Agent and Boston really seems to want to participate in Free Agency. However, a Horford - Brown - Melo - Bradley - IT rotation would be intriguing, and there is the possibility of moving Melo and the 2017 Nets pick for a younger star in Griffin.

So, a trade along the lines of Crowder - Rozier - Amir - Jerebko - 2018 Celtics Pick - 2019 Memphis Pick for Melo and Quinn would work.

The Melo ship has sailed.

Replace ship with barge and sailed with sinking and I think you nailed it...

[ddb]

Thinking outside the box... I don't think the Melo to the Celtics window is quite over yet, but it would mean the Celtics giving up on signing an impact Free Agent and Boston really seems to want to participate in Free Agency. However, a Horford - Brown - Melo - Bradley - IT rotation would be intriguing, and there is the possibility of moving Melo and the 2017 Nets pick for a younger star in Griffin.

So, a trade along the lines of Crowder - Rozier - Amir - Jerebko - 2018 Celtics Pick - 2019 Memphis Pick for Melo and Quinn would work.

honestly, that's way too much to give up for Melo. No thanks. I'm not even sure I would do Crowder for Melo straight up. that's real talk

[ddb]

and regarding Hayward....The way Avery Bradley has been improving every single year, I'm fine with just sticking with him long term and giving him a big payday when it's his time as a FA. And Jaylen Brown looks like the real deal....We already have Crowder locked into such a great contract that we might as well keep him too even if that means he eventually goes to a bench role ala Andre Iggy.

Where this team needs to improve is bringing in a star big man. If somehow, someway we could land Blake Griffin in free agency and then draft another stud player to add into the mix, then I think we're going to be very good for a very long time.

IT-AB-Brown-Griffin-Horford
Rozier-Smart-Crowder-Giles?-Olynyk

[24istheLAW]

If the Mavs fall continue to fall apart, I'd like to hit them about Bogut and Barea.

Bogut is a UFA after the season so he shouldn't be that hard to pry away. I'd like to get him into the starting lineup and move Johnson to the bench. Horford-Bogut-Johnson-Olynyk would be a pretty complete rotation in the frontcourt. And since it doesn't look like there are many contenders in need of a center, the price might be doable.

Barea I doubt will be available, but if he's unhappy or they don't want him, adding a legit backup PG who is under contract for 2 more years and less than $8M total would be nice. It's fun to dream on younger players but depth has been an issue 2 years in a row when the important games begin and Barea would be a more agreeable solution to that problem than Gerald Green.

[ddb]

If the Mavs fall continue to fall apart, I'd like to hit them about Bogut and Barea.

Bogut is a UFA after the season so he shouldn't be that hard to pry away. I'd like to get him into the starting lineup and move Johnson to the bench. Horford-Bogut-Johnson-Olynyk would be a pretty complete rotation in the frontcourt. And since it doesn't look like there are many contenders in need of a center, the price might be doable.

Barea I doubt will be available, but if he's unhappy or they don't want him, adding a legit backup PG who is under contract for 2 more years and less than $8M total would be nice. It's fun to dream on younger players but depth has been an issue 2 years in a row when the important games begin and Barea would be a more agreeable solution to that problem than Gerald Green.

So you're onto something, but it needs to be tweaked a bit. I am in favor of improving this team in the short term, but it would HAVE TO BE the right scenario in which we DO NOT give up ANY assets that impact our core or top draft assets.

So if Bogut ends up being a short term rental, then what are we sending back in return? I'd be fine doing Amir for Bogut. Or Zeller/Young for Bogut. But that's it.

[Wes-J]

No on Barea but I'm definitely all for Bogut. He's got playoff experience we're looking for.

What other centers could be targets?

[24istheLAW]

No on Barea but I'm definitely all for Bogut. He's got playoff experience we're looking for.

What other centers could be targets?

There are some on longer contracts. Koufos might be given what a disaster Sacramento is, but he comes with two more years left at $8M-$9M. It's a fair price but still not one I'd like to pay. The time to get Koufos was a few years ago when he was undervalued. In general I'd prefer to rent a big man than pay a premium on team control.

The thinking with Barea is more opportunity. He can shoot .375 from deep, score in the mid range, he's efficient offensively, he can dish out the ball, he's been a key part of good benches, yet the NBA doesn't seem to value him much and he's locked into making as little as a useful player can possibly make. IT is small too.

[Wes-J]

No on Barea but I'm definitely all for Bogut. He's got playoff experience we're looking for.

What other centers could be targets?

There are some on longer contracts. Koufos might be given what a disaster Sacramento is, but he comes with two more years left at $8M-$9M. It's a fair price but still not one I'd like to pay. The time to get Koufos was a few years ago when he was undervalued. In general I'd prefer to rent a big man than pay a premium on team control.

The thinking with Barea is more opportunity. He can shoot .375 from deep, score in the mid range, he's efficient offensively, he can dish out the ball, he's been a key part of good benches, yet the NBA doesn't seem to value him much and he's locked into making as little as a useful player can possibly make. IT is small too.

With the glut of good PG's in the league I would prefer more of a 3D specialist but Barea's not bad.

I should rephrase and say what are the potential PF/C options.

[Green89]

and regarding Hayward....The way Avery Bradley has been improving every single year, I'm fine with just sticking with him long term and giving him a big payday when it's his time as a FA. And Jaylen Brown looks like the real deal....We already have Crowder locked into such a great contract that we might as well keep him too even if that means he eventually goes to a bench role ala Andre Iggy.

Where this team needs to improve is bringing in a star big man. If somehow, someway we could land Blake Griffin in free agency and then draft another stud player to add into the mix, then I think we're going to be very good for a very long time.

IT-AB-Brown-Griffin-Horford
Rozier-Smart-Crowder-Giles?-Olynyk

Lots of talk on Hayward by the media who liked to make the Butler connection a point of emphasis, but no one close to the C's camp has really said we were going after him or wanted him. With Bradley's increased play (if his shoulder holds up) and Brown and Crowder \, it doesn't make a whole lot of sense unless we lose 1 of those 3. I think Danny's main target is obviously Blake, and by having a great season this year, we can up our chances. However, LA is also on track to have a great year. We should just hope the relationship between Blake and Paul and Jordan doesn't stay tight this season, as it will help our cause even further. Also, us going deep in the playoffs and them getting ousted early would be great, too!

[Celtic Esquire]

But what's happening behind the scenes is newsy, too. Some rival executives are increasingly convinced that the Nets are open to moving Lopez between now and the February deadline in the proverbial right deal.

Rumblings of Boston interest have been forcefully shot down by sources familiar with the Celtics' thinking, but the situation bears monitoring ... and not simply because the Celts could ultimately decide that a big in-season move is wisest in the event they can't create as much cap space next summer as they once hoped.

http://www.espn.com/blog/marc-stein/post/_/id/4645/the-latest-on-motiejunas-brook-lopez-and-more

[CelticFaninLBC]

and regarding Hayward....The way Avery Bradley has been improving every single year, I'm fine with just sticking with him long term and giving him a big payday when it's his time as a FA. And Jaylen Brown looks like the real deal....We already have Crowder locked into such a great contract that we might as well keep him too even if that means he eventually goes to a bench role ala Andre Iggy.

Where this team needs to improve is bringing in a star big man. If somehow, someway we could land Blake Griffin in free agency and then draft another stud player to add into the mix, then I think we're going to be very good for a very long time.

IT-AB-Brown-Griffin-Horford
Rozier-Smart-Crowder-Giles?-Olynyk

Blake would be great, but is a long shot. Hayward provides depth and trade flexibility. They basically have to spend this summer, because they don't have max cap space in 2018, if they plan to keep AB, IT, and Smart...

Add Hayward and then they can use something like Smart, Crowder and a pick for a big...

[skywalker33]

Max free agent and a home run lotto pick, yeah, we're probably set. Botched pick, no max free agent, different story.

I think rolling over our cap space again makes sense, *but*...

Rozier or Olynyk (or Smart) for Noel, moving Olynyk for a rookie-scale guy (could we do Olynyk, Young for Nurkic?) keeps us cap neutral...

We could also potentially do better on the trade market with our expirings than we could in free agency.. Between Amir, Zeller and Jerebko, the offers on the table (Vucevic? Hayward? Rudy Gay? Enes Kanter?) could be better than who's left next summer, if we don't get Blake Griffin.

I'm sure Danny will explore all options including trades. However, I heard they are pretty confident that they can land Hayward via free agency this summer. He is a target that may, or may not be their 1st option, but either way they feel like there is mutual interest between both parties there. With that said, would they prefer to sign Hayward and then package our pick with a couple guys to go after another star? That would form a BIG 4 of sorts. IT, Horford, Hayward and then player X acquired in a big trade. Plus whatever is left out of the the following group: Bradley, Crowder, Rozier, Brown, Smart, etc.

Hayward's a good player.

But think about letting Amir, Zeller and Jerebko expire, signing Hayward, extending Olynyk and trading the BKN 17 and another couple of players for a star. (Who?)

Then consider alternatives: Amir/Rozier for Faried/Nurkic; Crowder/Jerebko for Hayward, or Rudy Gay/Mclemore. If we're willing to go over the cap, we could make out better than from saving a max cap slot.

FWIW I don't think Hayward leaves Utah and if he does, we're still playing the odds we can get him.

McCeltic...just to clarify, Nurkic isn't going to be traded, dream on !!

[claycarver]

McCeltic...just to clarify, Nurkic isn't going to be traded, dream on !!

Dream about acquiring Nurkic?

Nurkic is a fine player, I'd love to have him, but we dream about Durant and Davis. Not Nurkic.

[skywalker33]

McCeltic...just to clarify, Nurkic isn't going to be traded, dream on !!

Dream about acquiring Nurkic?

Nurkic is a fine player, I'd love to have him, but we dream about Durant and Davis. Not Nurkic.

And there's the truth of it, but don't we all......