Season Speculation, Trade Ideas and Discussion

[Dambo]

When's the trade deadline?

[bwgood77]

http://www.brightsideofthesun.com/2016/11/5/13533606/phoenix-suns-playing-rookies-less-in-favor-of-wins

I think I feel better now

Less than two weeks into the 2016-17 season, Suns coach Earl Watson is already developing a reputation among the fans of being more interested in wins than player development.

In their first wins of the season, a pair of overtime thrillers, Watson leaned heavily on veterans at the expense of his rookies. P.J. Tucker played more minutes (53) than all three promising rookies combined (25). In fact, Dragan Bender and Tyler Ulis did not even take off their warmups in either game.

Yuck

It sucks but it could be politics. Maybe the FO has asked Watson to play the veterans more early on because maybe we are still trying to sell season tickets? IDK. Or we are just trying to up Tucker's value. Or we are just trying to bring the rookies along slowly.

Ingram played quality minutes against the Warriors but he is being brought along slowly too so really I'm not too worried about it this early in the season. Rookie seasons I imagine are very brutal for their mind & body.

I know and I have always advocated playing guys like Tucker, particularly early to provide an example of the type of intensity and effort it takes during games to compete. He hasn't played well but he is still getting in game shape, and you do have the trade value to try and build up if possible. Part of it for me is I haven't been as excited about a rookie in a long time.

The article is somewhat misleading in that usually only rebuilding teams have rookies play early and no one else has 2 top 8 picks, and a 2nd rounder as ready as Ulis other than maybe Deyontae Davis.

If we are still distributing minutes like this in two months though I really won't be too happy.

[bwgood77]

Nope. A couple of wins were necessary. Bender will get minutes, but sitting a couple of games will not hurt him. Playing the vets for wins is not about the wins. It is about rewarding Warren, Booker, and Bledsoe for their hard work. You cannot develop everyone all at once in the same way. All three of those players really needed these two games. For Warren it was about being able to perform well in wins, not just in losses. For Bledsoe, it was the experience of making clutch shots. For Booker, it was getting back on track. The vets were not the stars in these wins, they were enablers. They enabled our young guys to succeed. Even Chandler's minutes are helping Len. This is why it take both veterans and young players on a roster to develop young players.

BTW. With the roster we now have, player development is more important than picking higher.

I wasn't even talking about those guys.

[bwgood77]

When's the trade deadline?

After the all star game.

[LukasBMW]

I wonder if Melo has anything left in the tank?

If we are hovering above .500 and NY is out of the race, I wonder if he'd waive his no trade clause.

We send them Knight so he can grow with KP. We take Melo and his huge contract. Since we are under the cap, it works in the trade machine.

Bledsoe/Ulis
Booker/Barbosa
TJ/PJ/Bender
Melo/Dudley
Tyson/Len

If actually leaves us thin on guards. It doesn't help our center situation. It also leaves our bench super weak on scoring. But that front line looks pretty good.

[NTB]

I think Melo is just waiting for his retirement. He is one of the most skilled players in the world but has no passion at all. I'd love to see him in Suns uniform 2 years ago but not now.

[Mr Puddles]

Nope. A couple of wins were necessary. Bender will get minutes, but sitting a couple of games will not hurt him. Playing the vets for wins is not about the wins. It is about rewarding Warren, Booker, and Bledsoe for their hard work. You cannot develop everyone all at once in the same way. All three of those players really needed these two games. For Warren it was about being able to perform well in wins, not just in losses. For Bledsoe, it was the experience of making clutch shots. For Booker, it was getting back on track. The vets were not the stars in these wins, they were enablers. They enabled our young guys to succeed. Even Chandler's minutes are helping Len. This is why it take both veterans and young players on a roster to develop young players.

BTW. With the roster we now have, player development is more important than picking higher.

Couldn't agree more. I'd like to add that it would be very discouraging for our core - Warren, Booker, Bledsoe (and I'll add Chandler in as well) - to play their buts off only to lose because of a mistake by one of our rookies. If it's Tucker or Barbosa making a game altering mistake, those guys have developed enough credibility to be excused by our core. However, losing a tight game because Watson insists on playing Bender can have our core turn against the head coach and can be a confidence killer for our rook. These guys are competitive athletes playing to win and if they think that the front office is only concerned with playing our youth there is a good chance they'll become dissatisfied with the organization.

Let's remember that Watson is already playing Warren ahead of Tucker, and Booker ahead of Knight in the rotations - two decisions that were not as obvious as they appear in hindsight, and that I doubt Hornacek would have taken. Also Chriss is already part of the rotation and playing a respectable 15min a game, at age 19.

I'm expecting to see Bender and Ulis more after the all-star break - as well as during games with big leads/deficits. Until then, don't be surprised if they don't log-in minutes during close games.

[NavLDO]

Why would the Nets trade Lopez?

They don't have any draft picks so tanking makes no sense AND he is their only good player.

The only trade that makes sense for them is moving him in exchange for a bulk of young talent.

The other team would have to be a team on the cusp of competing and have attractive young players or picks.

Maybe to OKC in exchange for assets to help OKC on the inside or maybe Portland.

Sure we have Knight and Len, but I don't know that either of those is attractive.

If we could get him for spare parts? Absolutely! But I'm not keen on moving any picks for him.

Hey...That's fits the Suns' description to a 'T' !! (j/k, but let's play along, shall we??)

So one reason why they might be interested in trading Lopez would be a complete make over, and in hopes of attaching a couple of other players in the deal, then receiving young players and picks, as you alluded. I think you are spot on with your assessment of WHY they would even consider trading Lopez.

I think if McD is smart, he can put together a nice pkg that doesn't hurt our future too much, yet gets us Lopez (assuming we even want him, but for argument sake, let's say McD/Sarver discuss and Sarver says..."Make it happen!! I want to 'win' NLT next season!!")

So, based upon FA restrictions, a lot of Nets player are off the table, so if a trade were to take place right now, this would likely be our best bet, (and let's not 'over-value' Bledsoe here, either; he's not an All-Star or even close to an All-NBA PG) with us adding in a 1st, be it our lottery protected 2018 pick, or if pushed, the Heat 2018 pick:

http://www.espn.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=z3xegua

Leaves us with basically, any mixture that works at PG...and I hate to keep hammering the point, but the NBA IS going towards, I'll call it, 'position-vague' or 'position-nebulous', so same concept we ran with a '2-PG-system', this would be like a '2-SG-system'; we could have a Booker/Ulis, Booker/Bogdanovic, or Booker/Barbosa backcourt. And LeVert is a guy I liked coming out, but his injuries will likely result in him being a career bench player, even though he likely has starter-ability, and played both PG and SG in college, and averaged 40% from 3PT over his last 3 seasons combined on 4 attempts per game, so with that said:

Booker/Ulis/LeVert
Bogdanovic/Jenkins/Barbosa
Warren/Tucker/Derrick Jones Jr.
Chriss/Bender/Dudley
Lopez/Chandler/Williams

If we wait until December, that opens a lot of other possibilities...and if we do this, I say 'screw it' an put Dudley at the end of the rotation and get Chriss and Bender as much time as possible with Lopez NOW, so we can be competitive next season.

This trade is horrible. Our team would be without any defense with this trade. Jesus No!

http://thesportsquotient.com/nba/2016/2/13/brook-lopez-nbas-most-underrated-big-man

Defensively, Lopez is no slouch. Because of his ability to score, we often measure his success by points and offensive efficiency. Lopez gets a lot of criticism defensively, but he clearly can hold his own. According to fastbreak.com, opponents within six feet of the rim are shooting 10.1 percent worse against Lopez than they are against the rest of the league. Lopez also ranks eighth in the NBA in blocks per game, right ahead of Karl-Anthony Towns and behind Kristaps Porzingis. What he lacks in quickness and athleticism he makes up for with his 7‘5 1/2 wingspan along with excellent timing and intelligence.

...AND...

http://thebrooklyngame.com/valuable-brook-lopez/

I beat this drum like there’s draft picks inside of it, but that’s because it’s true: Lopez is an underrated rim protector, a big man defends more shots taken within six feet than any other NBA player, according to NBA.com’s defensive statistics. He’s also effective at turning them away, turning what’s regularly a 60 percent look into a 51 percent look.

Another rim protection figure — Nylon Calculus’s excellent “Rim Protection” stat — has Lopez saving just under a point per game, ahead of his more defensive-minded brother and sixth out of 23 centers with at least 1,000 minutes played. He is a solid shotblocker and shot deterrer, and both the eye test and the numbers back that up.

Also, what defense are you particularly worried about?? Between Lopez and Chandler, we'd be fine down low. Not to mention Tucker and what he just did to AD a couple of nights ago. Also, Chriss has shown a real penchant early o hi his career for defense, as has Bender. Warren has shown this season that he is getting better defensively, as well.

So, we lose Bledsoe, the only real Defensive presence on this team, but Ulis, should he develop as he has shown in SL, also showed a real penchant on the defensive side of the ball, as well. Len has been hit or miss, so I'm not concerned about trading him out for Lopez one bit, and Knight, well, he's just garbage, so I'm not sure what defense you are so worried about losing.

I'll take what Lopez brings to the table over what Bledsoe does any day of the week. And Bojan as a SG over Knight is a no brainer. And Len, at this point is hit or miss; Lopez is pretty much 'hit' day in and day out, so I'm surprised that that anyone would have real heartache with this trade, unless you are worried about winning too many games, because Lopez, Warren, and Booker are three offensive weapons that will keep us in any game, whereas Bledsoe, Len, and Knight have all been highly inconsistent this season...heck, they've been inconsistent throughout their entire careers with the Suns.

[ImNotMcDiSwear]

I really like Bledsoe-Ulis at the 1; I think that's a perfect combo to pair with Booker in the backcourt. Given all the family talk and all the work Bled has put in, I don't see any reason to want to deal Bled. And given the fact that we're fairly well-positioned at C, I also don't see any reason to add the aging Brook Lopez at this time.

Every day I login to realgm hoping to see a rumor that there is a decent offer on the table for Brandon Knight. Given his poor play to this point, I don't know if such an offer could be made by anyone. At this point, I'm almost inclined to just see his ass glued to the bench. He's been that bad. And given his health, the green light he has, and the PT he sees against backups, there's no excuse for his abysmal play.

[Bogyo]

Yeah, I also guess we re stuck with him.
My only hope is that we lose enough games as is for the management to realize before the trade deadline that we should play the rookies, and they free up time by trading PJ and Knight for an expiring and a (mid?) late first round pick.
Although the "too much youth" could become a problem (see: celtics, boston), but I just can't stand the way Knight plays the beautiful game of basketball.

[NavLDO]

I can not understand why some posters of this forum always want to involve Bledsoe in trades that brings nothing better for our franchise.Bledsoe is one of the best defensive pgs in this league with great offensive potential and fits perfectly with booker and warren, coming still evolving defensively. People here have to have more patience with him, since improved his skills this season!

And I cannot understand why posters continue to overvalue Bledsoe's worth. Out of 252 possible games since being with the Suns, Bledsoe has played 161 games; that's 81 games, or an entire season out of 3, or you can look at it as 27 games per season.

The one season he 'led' us fully as a PG, we end up 39-43. WITH Bledsoe healthy last year, we were 12-19. And this season we are 2-4. Please show me how he's so valuable to us?? Sure, he's the best player on the team, but again, he's nowhere near All-Star or All-NBA status, so why is he valued so much by posters here.

Side by side--Bledsoe vs Lopez--who is likely to have a bigger impact on our team?? Who's the better player, over all--be it perceived or what the stats show--either way?

The rest of the trade is 'meh' for 'meh', so who wouldn't trade Bledsoe for Lopez straight up? So yeah, that is why we'd likely have to throw in a pick, because Bojan is better than both Knight or Len, as well. LeVert is thrown in to make it an even 3 for 3 swap, but gives us a high BBIQ, high-upside-type of player. Knight's 'upside' is long past, and Len may get there, one day, but so far, even I have to admit, the signs are showing more towards unlikely than likely.

So what is so terrible about this trade for a Suns perspective??? Other than the fact that Brooklyn would like laugh and hang-up on McD if he called offering that pkg for essentially, Lopez.

A prior All-Star Big for a non-All-Star PG.

169 games missed over 8 years for a 21.7 per year avg...but 84 gms the last 3 years, 65 of those coming in 2013 season.

140 games missed over 6 years for a 23.2 per year avg...but 81 gms the last 3 years, 51 of those coming from last season.

So there are the reasons why Bledsoe is being 'sacrificed' in MY trade...I can't speak for others, but assume it's something similar.

[ImNotMcDiSwear]

Here's what I don't get about BK. Gets better every season, culminating with his final year in MKE, where he posts 18, 5 and 4 with nearly 2 steals, shooting 44% from the field, including 41% from 3, hitting clutch shots and leading the perennially also-ran Bucks into the playoffs:

Watch on YouTube

Looking pretty good. Then he gets to us. The numbers drop and continue to drop. Boneheaded plays, totally un-clutch, getting worse the closer he gets to his "prime". I can't understand it. I'm sure Ryan is beyond baffled.

[Fo-Real]

I would say no to Lopez. That's a win now move, and we should be building for the future. I get everybody wants to get rid of Knight but I think we could get a pick for Knight from somebody, or package him with others for a better fit than Lopez.

I would agree it's a win now and we should build, but it gets Knight off the team (huge plus), and means moving on from Len if we don't view him as the future C. In this core and keeps us from being forced to overpay him for nothing. Not to mention it brings an Allstar center back with it.

[NavLDO]

I would say no to Lopez. That's a win now move, and we should be building for the future. I get everybody wants to get rid of Knight but I think we could get a pick for Knight from somebody, or package him with others for a better fit than Lopez.

Lopez is only 28, and just 1.6ish years older than Bledsoe, so why is Lopez looked upon like he has only 3-4 seasons left? In all likelihood, and if he sustains like Tyson has, he has 6 or so more seasons in him; or basically, one 5-year contract. Keeping Bledsoe is no different, IMO.

And why is an offensive center than can spread the floor such a poor fit for us? Like I showed in an earlier post, his defense is also not nearly as bad as perceived.

Now, if your reasoning is strictly age-related in that you only want sub-25ers, then ok, I guess that Len, or Bender, are the better 'fits' for us. But bringing in a consistent 19/7 threat, and a prior All-Star, to me, would be a smart move for this organization--Lopez and Chandler to develop guys like Chriss and Bender would fit this team excellently; these are the types of Vets that will bring true talent to mentor our new bigs.

[ImNotMcDiSwear]

I would say no to Lopez. That's a win now move, and we should be building for the future. I get everybody wants to get rid of Knight but I think we could get a pick for Knight from somebody, or package him with others for a better fit than Lopez.

I would agree it's a win now and we should build, but it gets Knight off the team (huge plus), and means moving on from Len if we don't view him as the future C. In this core and keeps us from being forced to overpay him for nothing. Not to mention it brings an Allstar center back with it.

It's not bad value, it's just not a good fit. We're in great shape with Tyson and Alex. If there were a third team offering something we would want for Lopez in the deal, my guess is that Brooklyn would prefer whatever that third team is offering - since it would likely have to consist of at least one future first.

[Qwigglez]

Short and simple narrative is the Heat suck so they tank and rebuild.

Trade 1 (not Suns related):
Heat get - Darren Collison / Matt Barnes / WCS / 1st round pick (top 10 protected)
Kings get - Goran Dragic
One more effort to keep Boogie

Trade 2:
Heat get - Brandon Knight / Alex Len / PJ Tucker / 1st round pick 2017 (top 5 protected) / 2 Miami 1st Round picks
Suns get - Hassan Whiteside
I know, Brandon Knight has no trade value. But he does! He is the ultimate tank commander! Surefire way the Heat get that No 1 overall pick!
Suns roster:
Bledsoe/Booker/Warren/Dudley/Whiteside
Ulis/LB/Bender/Chriss/Chandler

Wouldn't happen ever I know. I was just brainstorming at work and thought Whiteside would be the perfect center for us.

[Fo-Real]

You know, I am ok with all of Alex Len's deficits as long as he comes in the game and is ultra active and aggressive on offense and defense like ha has been the a couple of the last few games. He needs to be coached and hyped up before he comes in and constantly reminded to stay hype, and I am ok with his play. Its when he just goes through the motions and is invisible when he is truly . Even when he misses close post ups, I am happy if he fought for position, adamantly called for the damn ball, and attempted a good move and not just settled for a ugly fall away off balance jumper, I am ok with it. A motivated aggressive Alex is enjoyable, he needs to stop playing like he is afraid to foul out and be aggressive on offense and defense.

[gaspar]

Here's what I don't get about BK. Gets better every season, culminating with his final year in MKE, where he posts 18, 5 and 4 with nearly 2 steals, shooting 44% from the field, including 41% from 3, hitting clutch shots and leading the perennially also-ran Bucks into the playoffs:

Spoiler:

Watch on YouTube

Looking pretty good. Then he gets to us. The numbers drop and continue to drop. Boneheaded plays, totally un-clutch, getting worse the closer he gets to his "prime". I can't understand it. I'm sure Ryan is beyond baffled.

He's just in a slump. He's not the only player in the league who's struggling right now. There are some really good players who really suck ass right now. Before last game you could easily add Booker to THIS LIST. Some people need to chill the **** out with this Knight hate, he will improve his game soon.

[Barkley_34]

Hey...That's fits the Suns' description to a 'T' !! (j/k, but let's play along, shall we??)

So one reason why they might be interested in trading Lopez would be a complete make over, and in hopes of attaching a couple of other players in the deal, then receiving young players and picks, as you alluded. I think you are spot on with your assessment of WHY they would even consider trading Lopez.

I think if McD is smart, he can put together a nice pkg that doesn't hurt our future too much, yet gets us Lopez (assuming we even want him, but for argument sake, let's say McD/Sarver discuss and Sarver says..."Make it happen!! I want to 'win' NLT next season!!")

So, based upon FA restrictions, a lot of Nets player are off the table, so if a trade were to take place right now, this would likely be our best bet, (and let's not 'over-value' Bledsoe here, either; he's not an All-Star or even close to an All-NBA PG) with us adding in a 1st, be it our lottery protected 2018 pick, or if pushed, the Heat 2018 pick:

http://www.espn.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=z3xegua

Leaves us with basically, any mixture that works at PG...and I hate to keep hammering the point, but the NBA IS going towards, I'll call it, 'position-vague' or 'position-nebulous', so same concept we ran with a '2-PG-system', this would be like a '2-SG-system'; we could have a Booker/Ulis, Booker/Bogdanovic, or Booker/Barbosa backcourt. And LeVert is a guy I liked coming out, but his injuries will likely result in him being a career bench player, even though he likely has starter-ability, and played both PG and SG in college, and averaged 40% from 3PT over his last 3 seasons combined on 4 attempts per game, so with that said:

Booker/Ulis/LeVert
Bogdanovic/Jenkins/Barbosa
Warren/Tucker/Derrick Jones Jr.
Chriss/Bender/Dudley
Lopez/Chandler/Williams

If we wait until December, that opens a lot of other possibilities...and if we do this, I say 'screw it' an put Dudley at the end of the rotation and get Chriss and Bender as much time as possible with Lopez NOW, so we can be competitive next season.

This trade is horrible. Our team would be without any defense with this trade. Jesus No!

http://thesportsquotient.com/nba/2016/2/13/brook-lopez-nbas-most-underrated-big-man

Defensively, Lopez is no slouch. Because of his ability to score, we often measure his success by points and offensive efficiency. Lopez gets a lot of criticism defensively, but he clearly can hold his own. According to fastbreak.com, opponents within six feet of the rim are shooting 10.1 percent worse against Lopez than they are against the rest of the league. Lopez also ranks eighth in the NBA in blocks per game, right ahead of Karl-Anthony Towns and behind Kristaps Porzingis. What he lacks in quickness and athleticism he makes up for with his 7‘5 1/2 wingspan along with excellent timing and intelligence.

...AND...

http://thebrooklyngame.com/valuable-brook-lopez/

I beat this drum like there’s draft picks inside of it, but that’s because it’s true: Lopez is an underrated rim protector, a big man defends more shots taken within six feet than any other NBA player, according to NBA.com’s defensive statistics. He’s also effective at turning them away, turning what’s regularly a 60 percent look into a 51 percent look.

Another rim protection figure — Nylon Calculus’s excellent “Rim Protection” stat — has Lopez saving just under a point per game, ahead of his more defensive-minded brother and sixth out of 23 centers with at least 1,000 minutes played. He is a solid shotblocker and shot deterrer, and both the eye test and the numbers back that up.

Also, what defense are you particularly worried about?? Between Lopez and Chandler, we'd be fine down low. Not to mention Tucker and what he just did to AD a couple of nights ago. Also, Chriss has shown a real penchant early o hi his career for defense, as has Bender. Warren has shown this season that he is getting better defensively, as well.

So, we lose Bledsoe, the only real Defensive presence on this team, but Ulis, should he develop as he has shown in SL, also showed a real penchant on the defensive side of the ball, as well. Len has been hit or miss, so I'm not concerned about trading him out for Lopez one bit, and Knight, well, he's just garbage, so I'm not sure what defense you are so worried about losing.

I'll take what Lopez brings to the table over what Bledsoe does any day of the week. And Bojan as a SG over Knight is a no brainer. And Len, at this point is hit or miss; Lopez is pretty much 'hit' day in and day out, so I'm surprised that that anyone would have real heartache with this trade, unless you are worried about winning too many games, because Lopez, Warren, and Booker are three offensive weapons that will keep us in any game, whereas Bledsoe, Len, and Knight have all been highly inconsistent this season...heck, they've been inconsistent throughout their entire careers with the Suns.

I respect your opinion, but I think completely different from you. Lopez just left another injury, I see it better than Bledsoe offensively, defensively not even need to speak.
Bogdanovic is doing a good season, but is a poorly complement to Devin. (Not defending anything). In your view, what would be our first team with this trade? who would defend after this trade? Ulis? Booker? Cris? Lopes? Bogdanovic? Ulis is ready?
I wish you would point me all the solutions to my questions.

[NavLDO]

So, since I'm like 0-20 with my trade ideas, how about another. I'll just keep doing it until I get it right, I suppose.

FACT: Richaun Holmes was a DNP last night in favor of Embiid/Okafor last night...is that foretelling??? IDK...

FACT: I've had a man-crush on Holmes and Jerami Grant since last season, and now Grant has been traded away...NOT to us, so I am sad. Therefore, I really want Holmes.

FACT: Nik Stauskus has had a very up-and-down career so far (mostly down).

FACT: A mixture of Embiid/Okafor/Saric/Rodriguez/Ilyasova and possibly Noel and/or Simmons could work and make the Sixers competitive in the East.

So, here's trade option 1:

http://www.espn.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=z524kzo

Tucker/Pick for Holmes/Stauskus

Trade option 2:

http://www.espn.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=z5n88aj

I have no idea how the 'trade machine' has Knight/Bledsoe for that pkg as the Sixers 'losing' wins, but, ok...

Yes, this is similar to the Brooklyn trade in that we are trading away our PGs, but we get AZ Wildcat TJ McConnell back, who seems to be a decent distributor of the ball, something both Knight and Bledsoe Lack, but we lose the 'drive' threat that EB brings. Anyway, I doubt they give up the LAL pick, but they have their pick to give away in this scenario, and I think that's fair for making them INSTANTLY competitive with Bledsoe and Knight:

Sixers:
Bledsoe/Rodriguez
Knight/Thompson
Saric/Covington
Noel??/Simmons (in January)
Embbiid/Okafor??

Us:
McConnell/Ulis
Booker/Stauskus or Jenkins (whichever we don't 'kick to the curb to make room)
Warren/Tucker
Holmes/Chriss/Ilyasova (1 yr-easy drop, if desired at end of season, or draft day?? Not sure of rule on that, but needed in the trade to make $ work)
Chandler/Len

And remember, we're getting a good 1st Rd pick back in this scenario-whatever McD can peel away from the Sixers in this trade proposal for losing Bledsoe. Not an instant return, but one, nonetheless.

I think we could really use Holmes, especially in the long run as all our young'ns, including him, develop, and we still have Dudley, Chandler, and Tucker as vets.

Either of these two trade proposals work for you guys?? For me, it's all about getting Holmes.