so where are we standing on Jimbo and Mitch now?

[snaquille oatmeal]

so so far it looks like we have a team, well not a playoff team but a team we can build on in the not so far future. knock on wood!
where are we on our opinion of Jim Buss and Mitch now?
http://www.silverscreenandroll.com/2016/11/4/13530392/la-lakers-mitch-kupchak-jim-buss-deadline-young-talent
discuss.....

[danfantastk32]

Not much has changed for me.

Hey listen....high hopes ain't a championship run. We just beat a good team last night, and that's nice. But I just sat through like 4 of the most brutal years imaginable. I'm only willing to give this guy a certain amount of credit for these draft picks. I woulda picked Ingram second....wouldn't you have? Is Dan Gilbert suddenly a great owner cause Lebron came back?

Has my position softened a bit?? Sure. But I'm not a huge fan of the 2 Free-Agents he picked up. I think we got those draft picks in-spite of his attempts to build around Kobe....and it seems like if we do become a decent team/contender.....it will be despite the $30+ million he wasted on sub-par old guys. They look decent now....well we got them for 4 years. Will we be able to pay our young guys moving forward? Sure would be a pi$$er to watch Nance or Randle walk cause we got old-man Deng iced up in the locker room.

I'll give him props for some of this: Clarkson. Taking Russell instead of Okofur. Nance was a great pick. Luke has been great so far....but even then, was this one of the turds finally sticking to the wall, or was this Jim actually making a good pick?

I feel like I'm watching inspector-gadget half the time with this guy, but OOPS...we got grips of great young guys....OOPS....brilliant coaching hire. Yeah...at some point, even if it is entire dumb-luck....title 17 is title 17. I will be forced to give the guy credit for a great team, even if I do think he bumbled into it.

But we ain't got a great team yet....so while my patience has softened with the guy considerably, thats about it. If Jeanie did can his arse at the end of the season, I certainly wouldn't cry.

[Pythagoras]

I've been incredibly hard on Jim/Mitch during this rebuild, but the future looks super bright, and they deserve a ton of credit. First, they've drafted exceptionally well. D'Lo over Okafor, Clarkson in the 2nd, and Nance Jr in the late first, all look like fantastic picks. They've made some poor coaching hires, but they've learned from their mistakes. This time they hired a fresh, bright, up and coming basketball mind in Luke, as opposed to another retread, *cough Thibs*, and that looks like another great move. Then there's Ingram and Randle. You could argue that those two were the no brainer picks for where they were drafted, but they still deserve props for being patient and and hanging onto those picks, as opposed to trading them, like I and many others were advocating.

I'm stoked for this team's future, and I can't wait to see what happens with them in the second half of the season, when I expect them to really start finding it's stride. I thought this team had a great opportunity to win 35 games this year. If they go 4-2 over the next 6 and get out to a 7-5 start, I don't think getting close to 40 wins is out of the question. If that happens, I will have done a complete 180 on Jim/Mitch and I'd be at the point where I be disappointed if they weren't allowed to see this thing to the end.

[Tee212]

nice thread, well revisit after all star time. how their chemistry looked last night is something i would of expected 1.5 years from now. it happened that fast is whats shocking the fan base. the loses were competitive as well.

[Pythagoras]

Not much has changed for me.

Hey listen....high hopes ain't a championship run. We just beat a good team last night, and that's nice. But I just sat through like 4 of the most brutal years imaginable. I'm only willing to give this guy a certain amount of credit for these draft picks. I woulda picked Ingram second....wouldn't you have? Is Dan Gilbert suddenly a great owner cause Lebron came back?

Ingram was a no brainer pick, but there was legitimate discussion over whether they should trade the pick for a quick fix second tier "star". They deserve a ton of credit for not mortgaging the future for the sake of a quick fix.

Has my position softened a bit?? Sure. But I'm not a huge fan of the 2 Free-Agents he picked up. I think we got those draft picks in-spite of his attempts to build around Kobe....and it seems like if we do become a decent team/contender.....it will be despite the $30+ million he wasted on sub-par old guys. They look decent now....well we got them for 4 years. Will we be able to pay our young guys moving forward? Sure would be a pi$$er to watch Nance or Randle walk cause we got old-man Deng iced up in the locker room.

As long as the team is willing to pony up, there's no danger of not being able to hold on the young guys. Deng and Mozgov's contracts will have no impact on whether Randle and Nance stay.

I'll give him props for some of this: Clarkson. Taking Russell instead of Okofur. Nance was a great pick. Luke has been great so far....but even then, was this one of the turds finally sticking to the wall, or was this Jim actually making a good pick?

I feel like I'm watching inspector-gadget half the time with this guy, but OOPS...we got grips of great young guys....OOPS....brilliant coaching hire. Yeah...at some point, even if it is entire dumb-luck....title 17 is title 17. I will be forced to give the guy credit for a great team, even if I do think he bumbled into it.

I don't see how anyone could suggest hiring Luke was dumb luck. He was widely considered to be a great basketball mind and was one of the hottest potential coaches on the market.

But we ain't got a great team yet....so while my patience has softened with the guy considerably, thats about it. If Jeanie did can his arse at the end of the season, I certainly wouldn't cry.

There is literally zero reason for Jeannie to make a drastic move this offseason if this team shows growth an wins well over 30 games. None.

Bottom line, while I think they've made some mistakes along the way, and I haven't agreed with every move, things are looking up. The hardest part of the rebuild is over, and I have confidence these guys can get us back on top.

[MAMBAEMD]

I'm fine with Jim and Mitch.

We have great young guys and very solid veterans.
We have versatile and athletic bigs, and very promising guards and wing.

They've done a great job putting together a solid and fun team.

And thy hired Luke that has done an incredible job coaching, and most importantly turning the culture around, and in a short period of time.

I want Mitch to continue to manage, and let Luke do what he wants with coaching and player development.
And I want Jim to stay in the background.

[danfantastk32]

Not much has changed for me.

Hey listen....high hopes ain't a championship run. We just beat a good team last night, and that's nice. But I just sat through like 4 of the most brutal years imaginable. I'm only willing to give this guy a certain amount of credit for these draft picks. I woulda picked Ingram second....wouldn't you have? Is Dan Gilbert suddenly a great owner cause Lebron came back?

Ingram was a no brainer pick, but there was legitimate discussion over whether they should trade the pick for a quick fix second tier "star". They deserve a ton of credit for not mortgaging the future for the sake of a quick fix.

Ton of credit? TON of credit? Nah....

I feel like I'm watching inspector-gadget half the time with this guy, but OOPS...we got grips of great young guys....OOPS....brilliant coaching hire. Yeah...at some point, even if it is entire dumb-luck....title 17 is title 17. I will be forced to give the guy credit for a great team, even if I do think he bumbled into it.

I don't see how anyone could suggest hiring Luke was dumb luck. He was widely considered to be a great basketball mind and was one of the hottest potential coaches on the market.

Hey....Luke wanted to come coach ONLY the Lakers. That had nothing to do with Jim. That part was total luck. Just like Dan Gilbert gets no credit for Lebron hearing angels tell him he must bring a title to Cleveland, I give Jim no credit for the fact that the Lakers were the only team Luke would leave GS for. That was one of those "in spite of what a mess we were"...not a "thanks to Jim" deal. Secondly....I'd question how much Jim REALLY thought about what the Luke experiment would be like...or did he just roll the dice that would only roll for him? In other words....If Luke died tonight....and Jim had to hire a new coach, how confident are you that Jim has the coaching thing figured out now, and would "of course grab a great hire"....or would you wonder if that all turned out to be dumb luck? Think about that for a second.

But we ain't got a great team yet....so while my patience has softened with the guy considerably, thats about it. If Jeanie did can his arse at the end of the season, I certainly wouldn't cry.

There is literally zero reason for Jeannie to make a drastic move this offseason if this team shows growth an wins well over 30 games. None.

Bottom line, while I think they've made some mistakes along the way, and I haven't agreed with every move, things are looking up. The hardest part of the rebuild is over, and I have confidence these guys can get us back on top.[/quote]

Things are looking up eh? Well we were at the bottom of the sludge at the bottom of the barrel....so 'things are looking up' was pretty much inevitable. It's HARD to be a 17 win team. Getting better than 17 wins means a whole lot of jack-squat to me. Getting better than 30 wins means a whole lot of jack-squat to me too.

One team I can't stand is the Clippers. I can't stand their fans either. One of the things I hated the most, is how they thought they had this "NBA thing" under their thumb, cause they had a promising roster, and a pretty good season when CP3 came.

Don't be a Clipper. We're 3-3.....6 games into our season. Jim Buss ain't done sh** yet. Except bullocks our last 3-4 seasons.

[danfantastk32]

wow...i butchered that post right proper. Ah well....hopefully you can figure it out...cause Im too lazy to fix it

[RingsDontLie]

Can't really blame Mitch or Jim because of a little thing called the CP3 veto by Mr. DS which is what really set us back.

[Pythagoras]

Ton of credit? TON of credit? Nah....

I disagree. There was a lot of pressure on them coming into this season, and it would have been easy to say "forget the future, we need to make a move now." Picking Ingram was easy, keeping the pick wasn't. I remember there being a lot of chatter this offseason about who they could trade that pick for.

Hey....Luke wanted to come coach ONLY the Lakers. That had nothing to do with Jim. That part was total luck. Just like Dan Gilbert gets no credit for Lebron hearing angels tell him he must bring a title to Cleveland, I give Jim no credit for the fact that the Lakers were the only team Luke would leave GS for. That was one of those "in spite of what a mess we were"...not a "thanks to Jim" deal. Secondly....I'd question how much Jim REALLY thought about what the Luke experiment would be like...or did he just roll the dice that would only roll for him? In other words....If Luke died tonight....and Jim had to hire a new coach, how confident are you that Jim has the coaching thing figured out now, and would "of course grab a great hire"....or would you wonder if that all turned out to be dumb luck? Think about that for a second.

Well, I haven't heard anything about the Lakers being the "only" place Luke wanted to go if he left. And the Lebron situation is not comparable. As far as I know, Lebron just picked Cleveland because he wanted to go back and bring a title there. Their front office didn't have to sell him. The Lakers, as far as I know, had to actually have a meeting with Luke to let him know of their vision/future for the team.

Things are looking up eh? Well we were at the bottom of the sludge at the bottom of the barrel....so 'things are looking up' was pretty much inevitable. It's HARD to be a 17 win team. Getting better than 17 wins means a whole lot of jack-squat to me. Getting better than 30 wins means a whole lot of jack-squat to me too.

What moves could Jeannie come in and make this offseason that would improve the team's outlook? Bring in a young brilliant basketball mind as coach? Already got that. Infuse the team with young talent? What are D'Lo, Ingram, Clarkson, Randle, and Nance? Convince some big name free agent to sign? We've already gone through this. Nobodies signing with the team if they aren't competitive. And while getting better than 30 wins may mean "jack-squat" to you, the reality is, that would be an indicator of this young core's ability to develop into a championship contender, whether you concede that or not.

One team I can't stand is the Clippers. I can't stand their fans either. One of the things I hated the most, is how they thought they had this "NBA thing" under their thumb, cause they had a promising roster, and a pretty good season when CP3 came.

Don't be a Clipper. We're 3-3.....6 games into our season. Jim Buss ain't done sh** yet. Except bullocks our last 3-4 seasons.

As much as I hate to say it, the Clippers were well on their way to being one the NBA's elite, they just handed too much control to Doc, and he ruined the team. You're right, the Lakers haven't figured this thing out yet, but there's no denying they are headed in the right direction. They've made bad decisions along the way, but they've also made good ones as well which could have a huge positive long lasting impact for this franchise.

You are right though, sample size is still way too small to be too confident, but I've seen enough to be hopeful.

[Pythagoras]

wow...i butchered that post right proper. Ah well....hopefully you can figure it out...cause Im too lazy to fix it

No worries, I got it.

[danfantastk32]

I disagree. There was a lot of pressure on them coming into this season, and it would have been easy to say "forget the future, we need to make a move now." Picking Ingram was easy, keeping the pick wasn't. I remember there being a lot of chatter this offseason about who they could trade that pick for.

Well...Ok, let's talk about that for a second. Yeah...you had some guys here saying we aughta flip that for Paul George. I mean no sh** we shoulda flipped it for Paul George. That wasn't happening.

Other than that...and a few "blogs" out there playing god....was there really a debate about trading that pick? Yeah fine...he kept the pick. That was nice that he did that. I don't consider that "great management".

[danfantastk32]

Well, I haven't heard anything about the Lakers being the "only" place Luke wanted to go if he left. And the Lebron situation is not comparable. As far as I know, Lebron just picked Cleveland because he wanted to go back and bring a title there. Their front office didn't have to sell him. The Lakers, as far as I know, had to actually have a meeting with Luke to let him know of their vision/future for the team.

What I heard was he had no interest in leaving GS, except that it was his dream job. I believe that came from Kerr. And that does make the Lebron situation comparable IMO. It's about how much credit can either owner REALLY take for the events that took place. Lebron happened to be born in Cleveland. THAT was why he came back. It was really DESPITE Dan Gilbert. Dan Gilber in no way/shape/form had anything to do with it. It wasn't the culture he was fostering, it wasn't the amazing team he had, it wasn't this great pitch that lured him from the Heat. No....he woke up one day and read in the paper that the greatest player in the game was joining his team.

It's the same with Jim. If Luke had played for the Heat...and was a "Miami guy", then we wouldn't have been on his radar, and none of this would have happened. That's dumb luck in my book.

[danfantastk32]

As much as I hate to say it, the Clippers were well on their way to being one the NBA's elite, they just handed too much control to Doc, and he ruined the team. You're right, the Lakers haven't figured this thing out yet, but there's no denying they are headed in the right direction. They've made bad decisions along the way, but they've also made good ones as well which could have a huge positive long lasting impact for this franchise.

No....as of right now, they are a playoff team that has never gotten past the second round, with a core that's watching it's window close. They are not elite at all. They certainly THOUGHT they were gonna win a title. Pretty much expected it. As of the 5th of November 2016, they are alot of nothing. And the Lakers are a .500 team.

Jim has a .500 team on his hands as of right now. Yeah....I'm not blind. Things certainly look good. But Jim just crawling out of the hole, as far as I'm concerned. He aint got no rings...he aint got no WC series under his belt. Just a collection of youth that's fun to watch.

Like I said...my patience has softened. The direction of the ship is turned to the right path. I'll give him that. Wow....4-5 years in, and we're looking up. Sorry....that doesn't get you off the hot-seat.

[Pythagoras]

....was there really a debate about trading that pick?

There clearly wasn't a debate among ownership, which showed a clear commitment to sticking with the plan. But there were a LARGE number of fans pressuring to do something with that pick. People weren't talking about the number two for Paul George straight up. They were talking about giving up the number two, and ALL of our other young assets for PG. There was also discussion about moving the number two plus filler for second tier stars like Melo, Gordon Hayward, Jimmy B., etc. And while there were a large number of patient fans who would have been like, "those deals suck!", there were a large number of fans who were desperate for the team to do SOMETHING.

What I heard was he had no interest in leaving GS, except that it was his dream job. I believe that came from Kerr. And that does make the Lebron situation comparable IMO. It's about how much credit can either owner REALLY take for the events that took place. Lebron happened to be born in Cleveland. THAT was why he came back. It was really DESPITE Dan Gilbert. Dan Gilber in no way/shape/form had anything to do with it. It wasn't the culture he was fostering, it wasn't the amazing team he had, it wasn't this great pitch that lured him from the Heat. No....he woke up one day and read in the paper that the greatest player in the game was joining his team.

It's the same with Jim. If Luke had played for the Heat...and was a "Miami guy", then we wouldn't have been on his radar, and none of this would have happened. That's dumb luck in my book.

I suppose that's a somewhat fair point about this being his dream job, but... Still not comparable to the Lebron situation. When the best player in the world tells you he's coming to play for you, with the only reason being he happened to be born from there, then yeah, that's dumb luck. The Lakers were lucky Luke wanted to come here, but they still had to recognize he had game and pick him, that's not luck, as Luke didn't have anywhere near the pedigree of Lebron.

No....as of right now, they are a playoff team that has never gotten past the second round, with a core that's watching it's window close. They are not elite at all. They certainly THOUGHT they were gonna win a title. Pretty much expected it. As of the 5th of November 2016, they are alot of nothing. And the Lakers are a .500 team.

Jim has a .500 team on his hands as of right now. Yeah....I'm not blind. Things certainly look good. But Jim just crawling out of the hole, as far as I'm concerned. He aint got no rings...he aint got no WC series under his belt. Just a collection of youth that's fun to watch.

Like I said...my patience has softened. The direction of the ship is turned to the right path. I'll give him that. Wow....4-5 years in, and we're looking up. Sorry....that doesn't get you off the hot-seat.

The Clippers are a failure because they made a stupid decision when they were almost at the top of the mountain, (handing personnel decisions over to Doc). No, Jim hasn't done anything... yet. He's learned from his mistakes though, and righted the ship. Plus, I consider this a marathon, not a sprint. If in three years, the Lakers are a perennial 55-60 win team again, in championship contention, with a wealth of home grown drafted talent under their belt, then I'm not going to give a fig newton how they got there.

[danfantastk32]

Plus, I consider this a marathon, not a sprint. If in three years, the Lakers are a perennial 55-60 win team again, in championship contention, with a wealth of home grown drafted talent under their belt, then I'm not going to give a fig newton how they got there.

Exactly. It's been 4 years of mad decisions/moves....6 good games aint gonna flip that for me. Your absolutely right...if we're in contention then I will be happy with what he's done. But I'm not happy with "bright futures".

I'll recognize a good thing when I see it, and right now there's alot to be excited and hopeful for. But like I said, I question how much of that is Jim, how much is that "inspector gadget effect" I mentioned. Time will tell. If he's figuring it out....great. I don't hate "the guy". I'm totally fine if he's our owner. I just wanna see us contending. Alot of bad moves have been made, IMO. I think we could have been alot further along if he'd committed to a rebuild long ago, when most saw that it was necessary.

I like your attitude over all. We disagree with nuances. I think your quick to give credit. I'm more of a hard-a** in that respect. You ain't got nothing, till cash is in hand. The Clippers learned that (they prob didn't.....but oh well) when they proclaimed this Clipper town. How empty and just juvenile does that sound 3 years later?

You are correct thought....there is a share of credit to go Jims way. My point is this....you give him some good, you give him some bad. Even if I concede a bit more credit than I do.....that makes him what? A decent owner at this point? I wanna see the goods. I wanna see him continue to make right decisions. Not trading our second pick in the draft is what most guys would do. That doesn't separate him, IMO. Jerry had a handful of bad choices to go with a Jar full of titles, finals appearances, and all that.

So far Jim's got a jar full of "lowest evers". A handful of 'good' choices doesn't get you out of the hotseat, in my book. He's gotta continue to do the things that get us into contention. You give me a WC-Finals appearance, and I will get off his back.

[snaquille oatmeal]

Well, I haven't heard anything about the Lakers being the "only" place Luke wanted to go if he left. And the Lebron situation is not comparable. As far as I know, Lebron just picked Cleveland because he wanted to go back and bring a title there. Their front office didn't have to sell him. The Lakers, as far as I know, had to actually have a meeting with Luke to let him know of their vision/future for the team.

What I heard was he had no interest in leaving GS, except that it was his dream job. I believe that came from Kerr. And that does make the Lebron situation comparable IMO. It's about how much credit can either owner REALLY take for the events that took place. Lebron happened to be born in Cleveland. THAT was why he came back. It was really DESPITE Dan Gilbert. Dan Gilber in no way/shape/form had anything to do with it. It wasn't the culture he was fostering, it wasn't the amazing team he had, it wasn't this great pitch that lured him from the Heat. No....he woke up one day and read in the paper that the greatest player in the game was joining his team.

It's the same with Jim. If Luke had played for the Heat...and was a "Miami guy", then we wouldn't have been on his radar, and none of this would have happened. That's dumb luck in my book.

my two cents, the Lakers did overpay Luke the player, I don't think the Heat would have

[danfantastk32]

my two cents, the Lakers did overpay Luke the player, I don't think the Heat would have

ok..but that wasn't Jim.

[LALifer49]

While I like our young prospects and coach very much, I am worried about our future because of the Deng and Mozgov contracts which I hate. I think this team is a couple years and a big FA signing away from doing big things, and those two dead weight contracts could come to haunt us. I think we could survive one of those contracts but 2? Ugh, that is more than a max taken up. I also think when it comes time, we wont be able to pay Randle, Clarkson, Dlo, Nance, Ingram, and potentially Zubac. Though I like him, Clarkson is the one who I think goes.

If we could trade Clarkson and one of those contracts, preferably Deng, for maybe a 3 and D guy and draft picks or something, then that'd be good. Like I said, I like Clarkson but I see him as the most expendable of the core pieces, and if we can use him to get rid of one of the bad contracts that'd be huge. I'm not saying do the trade this season though, this is next year or 2 years down the line.

If we could go forward in a few years with a core of Dlo, 3 and D guy, Ingram, Randle/Nance, Bigtime FA (Cousins?), Zubac, and whoever else fills out the lineup, we are definitely making a splash.

**So on the topic of Jim and Mitch: Like what they've set up, hate the 2 big offseason signings that I think could **** it all up.

[dipstick]

Yes it's early. This team hasn't done anything yet. But after so many titles and always keeping competitive, why are we so rough on Jim Buss and even Mitch? We have to try to be objective. No Brainers are still decisions you make and over those decisions there were non moves that we have no idea happened or did not happen along the way.

As far as I can remember the only poor decision was choosing D'antoni over Jackson. The Nash deal was pure bad luck but was good in the context of Dwight and Kobe. Striking out during free agency was frustrating but was there really anything Jim and Mitch could have done?

The lakers were used to quick fixes. Probably even us. The FO tried during free agency but kept their eye on the prize. There was always a plan on how to rebuild and they did not stray. For that I have to give credit.

Was hiring Byron Scott such a bad thing? Honestly I do not know. At that point 2 years ago, I don't even know what the criteria was. We took forever making a decision to find a coach who would be mentor to rentals.

Yes it's been frustrating during the rebuild but I think no rebuild wouldn't be. Otherwise you're taking shortcuts and not doing it properly. So yes, it's premature to say they have done a good job, but in the context of a rebuild, even more so premature to say they have failed.