The Kevin Durant Thread (2016 - 17 Pt. 1)

[StepBackCrack]

I think people should move on regarding his decision. I believe everyone posted their opinion on it already. There is no need to discuss it over and over again in his thread. People should discuss the recent things about him. Like his play with the Warriors in this season so far. Is he affecting them in a negative way or not? Did he make them worse? Or is it too early to judge the team with him? Things like that.

[microfib4thewin]

Would y'all have liked if Michael had joined the Pistons in 1990 a month after they lost to them in a hard fought 7 game series?

Imagine finding out that he had been talking with them throughout that whole season about joining them WHILE they were beating his team's ass (literally).

You really expect people not to have a problem with **** like that? Come on now.

Are we talking about him joining a team that beat him or are we talking about him joining a stacked team? I can see why some people have issues with both. For the first, I don't see why joining a team that beat him is specifically a problem. It's no different than joining another team that gives the player the biggest chance at winning a title. For the second, players go to better teams all the time, so how does one define when it is okay and not okay to join a team? That is entirely subjective and there is no standard on measuring when it is too much.

[TheBrodie]

Would y'all have liked if Michael had joined the Pistons in 1990 a month after they lost to them in a hard fought 7 game series?

Imagine finding out that he had been talking with them throughout that whole season about joining them WHILE they were beating his team's ass (literally).

You really expect people not to have a problem with **** like that? Come on now.

Are we talking about him joining a team that beat him or are we talking about him joining a stacked team? I can see why some people have issues with both. For the first, I don't see why joining a team that beat him is specifically a problem. It's no different than joining another team that gives the player the biggest chance at winning a title. For the second, players go to better teams all the time, so how does one define when it is okay and not okay to join a team? That is entirely subjective and there is no standard on measuring when it is too much.

In the competitive nature , you simply dont join a team who just beat you coming back from a 3-1 lead. Especially when you have a contending team yourself and a top 5 player with you. And thats not even mentioning that its a 73-9 team , with a unanimous mvp , a greatest shooting backcourt , a top 2 dpoy twice in a row, iggy the FMVP off the bench and so on. I mean that was the weakest move ive seen in the history of the game. Its truly sad.

Curry Klay Dray and Iggy went out , bought all the ingrediants, cooked the meal , set the table up , and now KD just sat down at the table to eat. Its weak, but it goes well along with his beta mentality if we are being honest.

[ProfessorJM]

I don't either like or hate KD's departure. For the departure part I think KD has good reasons to do it. A large part of OKC's relevancy rests on Durant. While WB can be a wrecking ball it can go both ways and I think people can undersell how much he's hurting the team when he isn't playing well. I have not liked any of the moves OKC has made before the new TV deal. With a young core it doesn't make sense for the team to get younger, and that's what OKC has been doing. Letting players go after their rookie contract is up so they avoid paying big money and start over with another pick. Unless they have superstar potential how much value can you get from a player's first 3-4 years? They are opening up the pocket now but it is already too late. GSW is a powerhouse in the foreseeable future, the Spurs look to dominate again with an improving Kawhi, the Cavs are looking better than ever since Lebron's return, and who knows which other team will step up to the plate in the future? Even in the unlikely chance that Durant becomes better, OKC is still not the favorites to win it all.

As for the part about going to GSW, it removes a lot of uncertainty of winning a ring. GSW do have question marks with their current defense and depth, but I think they will get at least one title with how talented and balanced they are. Some people say joining such a stacked team automatically tarnishes Durant's legacy. I say Durant should be judged on how he contributed on the team instead of looking at his situation. Plenty of people put Lebron down for forming the big 3, and Lebron still manage to play at a historic level. Don't jump the gun is what I think about where Durant will end up all time.

I think this is a very fair and well thought out post. I think OKC this year would have been a very serious contender with GS and Cle but definitely not a heavy favorite. I think OKC made some mistakes in how they operated fiscally and dealt with Durant but that's neither here nor there at this point. I'm even questioning if Westbrook will stay there long-term but signing Adams I think helps.

I personally do think Durant will never (in terms of his basketball legacy) approach LeBron/Magic/Bird much less Jordan no matter how many titles he wins with this current roster, but absolutely everyone should wait and see what happens and make their judgments from there. I don't think Durant should care about his legacy anyway. He should do what makes him happy, and he has no responsibility to any team, player, the league, or anything or anyone other than himself.

[JulesWinnfield]

Talking about legacy... imagine the unthinkable... that this Golden State team actually doesn't win the ring(s) that we all have them getting fitted for at some point. If the defense and rebounding become too big a concern, there are diminishing returns on offense and their flaws can't be overcome to reach the mountain top as constituted... imagine KD goes through his career playing with Westbrook, harden, curry, Durant, Thompson, green and doesn't wind up with a ring despite his individual exploits... That's a complicated as hell legacy. I'm not saying it's going to happen, I'd bet on them breaking through at some point, but man, for his sake he better. The move makes it easier on him (at least on paper, but we must remember all of this is still on paper and the actual breathing example of this team might still teach us a thing or two about basketball) but it does add a crazy level of pressure that he always avoided

[microfib4thewin]

Talking about legacy... imagine the unthinkable... that this Golden State team actually doesn't win the ring(s) that we all have them getting fitted for at some point. If the defense and rebounding become too big a concern, there are diminishing returns on offense and their flaws can't be overcome to reach the mountain top as constituted... imagine KD goes through his career playing with Westbrook, harden, curry, Durant, Thompson, green and doesn't wind up with a ring despite his individual exploits... That's a complicated as hell legacy. I'm not saying it's going to happen, I'd bet on them breaking through at some point, but man, for his sake he better. The move makes it easier on him (at least on paper, but we must remember all of this is still on paper and the actual breathing example of this team might still teach us a thing or two about basketball) but it does add a crazy level of pressure that he always avoided

That's a superficial way of looking at things. Harden was only there for 3 years and only had one year as a borderline allstar. Injuries killed their chances in 2013 and 2015. When they were healthy they lost to '12 Lebron, '14 Spurs, and '16 Warriors. First one being the possible GOAT at his peak, second being a mini super team and the last being the greatest team in history. I do not see a reason to hold it against Durant that he is still ringless. Moving forward, if things happen in Golden State outside of Durant's control that reduces their chances I also would not hold it against Durant if he is still titleless.

[JulesWinnfield]

Talking about legacy... imagine the unthinkable... that this Golden State team actually doesn't win the ring(s) that we all have them getting fitted for at some point. If the defense and rebounding become too big a concern, there are diminishing returns on offense and their flaws can't be overcome to reach the mountain top as constituted... imagine KD goes through his career playing with Westbrook, harden, curry, Durant, Thompson, green and doesn't wind up with a ring despite his individual exploits... That's a complicated as hell legacy. I'm not saying it's going to happen, I'd bet on them breaking through at some point, but man, for his sake he better. The move makes it easier on him (at least on paper, but we must remember all of this is still on paper and the actual breathing example of this team might still teach us a thing or two about basketball) but it does add a crazy level of pressure that he always avoided

That's a superficial way of looking at things. Harden was only there for 3 years and only had one year as a borderline allstar. Injuries killed their chances in 2013 and 2015. When they were healthy they lost to '12 Lebron, '14 Spurs, and '16 Warriors. First one being the possible GOAT at his peak, second being a mini super team and the last being the greatest team in history. I do not see a reason to hold it against Durant that he is still ringless. Moving forward, if things happen in Golden State outside of Durant's control that reduces their chances I also would not hold it against Durant if he is still titleless.

It's superficial in a lot of ways to be sure at least to this point, but it could never be argued that he didn't play with an overwhelming amount of talent. Injuries did hurt them in 13 and 15. I don't necessarily kill him for being ringless to this point, although I do think he has had a window... but moving forward if this golden state thing doesn't reach the heights we expect it's going to bounce back on him fairly or not. Regardless of what individual numbers he is putting up

[KD35Brah]

Talking about legacy... imagine the unthinkable... that this Golden State team actually doesn't win the ring(s) that we all have them getting fitted for at some point. If the defense and rebounding become too big a concern, there are diminishing returns on offense and their flaws can't be overcome to reach the mountain top as constituted... imagine KD goes through his career playing with Westbrook, harden, curry, Durant, Thompson, green and doesn't wind up with a ring despite his individual exploits... That's a complicated as hell legacy. I'm not saying it's going to happen, I'd bet on them breaking through at some point, but man, for his sake he better. The move makes it easier on him (at least on paper, but we must remember all of this is still on paper and the actual breathing example of this team might still teach us a thing or two about basketball) but it does add a crazy level of pressure that he always avoided

That's a superficial way of looking at things. Harden was only there for 3 years and only had one year as a borderline allstar. Injuries killed their chances in 2013 and 2015. When they were healthy they lost to '12 Lebron, '14 Spurs, and '16 Warriors. First one being the possible GOAT at his peak, second being a mini super team and the last being the greatest team in history. I do not see a reason to hold it against Durant that he is still ringless. Moving forward, if things happen in Golden State outside of Durant's control that reduces their chances I also would not hold it against Durant if he is still titleless.

Ibaka was also out the 1st 2 games against the Spurs in the '14 series.

[mischievous]

Talking about legacy... imagine the unthinkable... that this Golden State team actually doesn't win the ring(s) that we all have them getting fitted for at some point. If the defense and rebounding become too big a concern, there are diminishing returns on offense and their flaws can't be overcome to reach the mountain top as constituted... imagine KD goes through his career playing with Westbrook, harden, curry, Durant, Thompson, green and doesn't wind up with a ring despite his individual exploits... That's a complicated as hell legacy. I'm not saying it's going to happen, I'd bet on them breaking through at some point, but man, for his sake he better. The move makes it easier on him (at least on paper, but we must remember all of this is still on paper and the actual breathing example of this team might still teach us a thing or two about basketball) but it does add a crazy level of pressure that he always avoided

That's a superficial way of looking at things. Harden was only there for 3 years and only had one year as a borderline allstar. Injuries killed their chances in 2013 and 2015. When they were healthy they lost to '12 Lebron, '14 Spurs, and '16 Warriors. First one being the possible GOAT at his peak, second being a mini super team and the last being the greatest team in history. I do not see a reason to hold it against Durant that he is still ringless. Moving forward, if things happen in Golden State outside of Durant's control that reduces their chances I also would not hold it against Durant if he is still titleless.

I don't think it should be neccesarily held against him that he lost, but one shouldn't ignore that he underperformed relative to his standards in those 3 series mentioned. In 2012 he seemed to have an excellent series against the Heat on paper, nearly 31 on 65 ts%(?), but he wasn't rebounding or playmaking particularly well and nor did he have any impact on defense. Even just watching him play I didn't feel he was as impactful as his pretty scoring numbers might suggest. 2014 was just flat out not a good series against the Spurs, not a garbage series by any means but he sets the standard for himself. In 2016 against the Warriors he shot 51.7 ts% over the last 3 games, and in game 7 I particularly remember him getting a lot of his points after a blowout was pretty much already set in. So in game 7, he seemed to have a great game if you glance at the stat sheet but in reality it wasn't.

[StepBackCrack]

Durant literally could have made no wrong and still end up ringless in OKC. In his first finals he played great and he was only 23 years old with a super young Thunder team. He did what he could. Losing to peaking super Heat with a peaking 27 years old LBJ is to be expected. No shame in that at all. In 2014, they lost to a great Spurs team (arguably the best ever Spurs team) and there was no shame in that as well. That Spurs team even dominated the Heat. Not to mention Ibaka missing games at that series affected them. If he played all the games, maybe thing would turn out differently. In 2016, on paper, they certainly weren't supposed to beat GSW but after the 3-1 lead (which Durant played a huge role in getting OKC to that point), he could have done better in game 6 and made the finals. However, even if they made the finals, winning a title is far from a given thing. Cavs were strong and well rested for the finals unlike OKC if they made it there. So basically, he could have done nothing wrong and still end up ringless in OKC. That's really understandable when you play in such a tough conference and then you have to beat the best team of the East after you go through legit contenders like Spurs, GSW and LAC who you have to battle first. Such battles takes a lot of mental and physical energy. It's a tough task. If OKC was in the East instead of Miami/Cavs, their chances of making finals or even winning would be a lot higher.

In his new GSW career however, the pressure is EXTREMELY high on his shoulders because anything less than a perfect result would be held against him. People would not even care if GSW has injuries that cause them to lose in the future. They would just lock at the results and mock Durant with no mercy if GSW doesn't win titles. So yeah, the pressure he put on himself by going to GSW is immense. How he handles such pressure is something we are yet to see. I like his chances of handling that pressure tho. Based on his play so far, it seems to me that he is ready for what's coming.

[StepBackCrack]

None can deny that he had bad moments in the playoffs. He isn't the only great player to have those moments tho.

[JulesWinnfield]

You could easily argue Durant was not the best player on his own team during the 14 or 16 playoffs (it's pretty inarguable, I've been through this before in detail and won't be doing it again on an NFL Sunday if I'm met with pushback on this point), his play clearly dipped in both runs after the regular season. It's true he had some bad luck, it's also true he had opportunities he didn't capitalize on (none that would accompany the ire that a failure this season would). They had a window in OKC with a championship level cast

[StepBackCrack]

They did have a window but him not winning with OKC shouldn't be held against him. They lost to pretty great teams and in most cases, they faced better coached teams. Brooks was a bad coach. OKC relied mostly on pure talent. Only Donovan was decent/good coach and he was there for one season only. I wish they brought him earlier and I wish they didn't screw up so bad with Harden. That was a tragic trade to say the least. Harden wasn't only a great 3rd option but he also was the closest friend to Kevin. So yeah, James meant a lot to him.

[JulesWinnfield]

They did have a window but him not winning with OKC shouldn't be held against him. They lost to pretty great teams and in most cases, they faced better coached teams. Brooks was a bad coach. OKC relied mostly on pure talent. Only Donovan was decent/good coach and he was there for one season only. I wish they brought him earlier and I wish they didn't screw up so bad with Harden. That was a tragic trade to say the least. Harden wasn't only a great 3rd option but he also was the closest friend to Kevin. So yeah, James meant a lot to him.

I don't really crush him for not having a ring to this point. My initial post on this topic was more about moving forward, but at the end of the day the OKC stuff will also be part of the puzzle when his career is done. All this is based on a lot of projection, I'd be stunned if golden state didn't win one together. But nothing is a given...

[StepBackCrack]

They did have a window but him not winning with OKC shouldn't be held against him. They lost to pretty great teams and in most cases, they faced better coached teams. Brooks was a bad coach. OKC relied mostly on pure talent. Only Donovan was decent/good coach and he was there for one season only. I wish they brought him earlier and I wish they didn't screw up so bad with Harden. That was a tragic trade to say the least. Harden wasn't only a great 3rd option but he also was the closest friend to Kevin. So yeah, James meant a lot to him.

I don't really crush him for not having a ring to this point. My initial post on this topic was more about moving forward, but at the end of the day the OKC stuff will also be part of the puzzle when his career is done. All this is based on a lot of projection, I'd be stunned if golden state didn't win one together. But nothing is a given...

So true. That's why I think it's pretty premature to just assume that GSW will win 2/3/4/5/6 rings! Nothing is a given. GSW is a new team that needs to solve many things first and basketball isn't math. You can't just say, 2014 KD + 2016 Steph + 2016 Klay + 2016 Dray + 2016 Iggy = Impossible to beat and so unfair. That's wrong. Basketball doesn't work like that. I bet they won't look as great as they look on paper even after figuring out many things eventually. Durant will still need show his best to make his team win. He has more help now but that doesn't mean the team doesn't need his best level. They absolutely do.

[RCM88x]

I think if GS doesn't win this year they won't with this cast. It will be basically impossible to field a team with those 4 guys next season if they dont take significantly less money than their max. Considering the CBA is probably going to make it even more difficult for them to keep the team together, I personally think its win or die for this team.

However, its possible that there will be a huge number of valuable vets who are willing to take the minimum to play for the team. Weather or not they will actually be valuable come playoff time is still questionable, same goes for the young guys like Clarke and McCaw.

To me it looks like Iggy and Livingston are probably on their last legs as top tier bench players, both seem to have taken a massive step back from where they were this time last season. Without a good bench eating up minutes, I think that the shooting of Steph and Klay is very subject and will not be a the level it was in 15' and 16', especially in the playoffs.

[StepBackCrack]

[Wall34]

KD consistency is crazy i wonder how long he can keep this 20 point streak up.

[StepBackCrack]

KD consistency is crazy i wonder how long he can keep this 20 point streak up.

I hope I'm wrong but I don't think he will catch Wilt. He is too far ahead. Oscar, however, is within reach.

[StepBackCrack]

His passing was awesome tonight. His rebounding is back to be good. Much better than in the previous game. In general, he is having his best start of a season so far. Unlike what most people believe, his production didn't go down at all with the Warriors so far. He is getting enough touches to do great.