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OT - Trump

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Re: OT - Trump 

Post#41 » by yesh » Wed Nov 9, 2016 6:25 pm

Mylie10 wrote:
bondom34 wrote:
Mylie10 wrote:I hope there isn't any violence from either side.

I doubt it. To me I don't understand the "anti establishment" idea. If that's the stance, you voted the rich racist white guy. What bothers me is just the hate the man spews constantly, and how half the voters could see that and think "yeah, that's who I want in charge". Its just sad.


So do you believe that people who voted for Trump did so because hes a racist and hella rich? lol

Why do you think Bernie had such a huge movement going? He's considered anti establishment.

Clinton is the epitome of establishment. And shes hella rich. And she made most of her fortune through their foundation, which may have some legal troubles, and while an official of the government.

A lot of Republicans are establishment, and do nothing that they ran on to get elected.

DC is full of status quo establishment and most americans feel they don't represent them. This aint hard to understand if you really look into it.


That's completely false about Bernie being popular because he was anti establishment. He was popular because he identified the issues in America and wanted to fix them.
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Re: OT - Trump 

Post#42 » by Sam Lowry Jr » Wed Nov 9, 2016 6:28 pm

I feel bad for rural America who voted for him, thinking that he will bring back jobs and "make America great again". A lot of the jobs of the working and middle class in middle America are labor jobs that have been replaced by technology. These jobs aren't coming back. We might lose a generation trying to readjust and find new jobs to help these people.

What I fear is what will happen when Trump's supporters realize this and the gap between the have and have nots, the educated v. uneducated, the cultural elite v. the fly by states, etc. widen.

Living in the San Francisco Bay Area bubble, you are often shielded away from a lot of how the rest of the country is doing. Having traveled quite a bit to some of these states, however, I see the big disparity and differences that exist in a large part of the country. Last night, that divide was clear. We've seen it happen not only here in the US, but in all parts of the world. As an optimist, I hope that divide lessens over the next four years, even if we have somebody so unqualified and temperamental as Trump leading the way. As a realist, I cannot feel a little fear and anxiety...
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Re: OT - Trump 

Post#43 » by Little Digger » Wed Nov 9, 2016 6:47 pm

I think the over the top political correctness shoved down our throats helped cause the rejection of the Obama/Clinton empire..Now us just left of center types have Trump for at least 4 years :nonono: ..Thanks a lot flaming liberals.
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Re: OT - Trump 

Post#44 » by clyde21 » Wed Nov 9, 2016 6:50 pm

Little Digger wrote:I think the over the top political correctness shoved down our throats is what caused the rejection of the Obama/Clinton empire..Now us left of center types have Trump for at least 4 years..Thanks a lot flaming liberals.


Not a fan of PC either, but you don't see me voting for a mouth-breathing, bigoted maniac in retaliation. :crazy:
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Re: OT - Trump 

Post#45 » by yesh » Wed Nov 9, 2016 6:55 pm

Little Digger wrote:I think the over the top political correctness shoved down our throats helped cause the rejection of the Obama/Clinton empire..Now us just left of center types have Trump for at least 4 years :nonono: ..Thanks a lot flaming liberals.


You got any examples of this kind of thing, because that just sounds like a trump soundbyte. Obama is a centrist president so calling his presidency an empire is strange from someone claiming to be center left.
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Re: OT - Trump 

Post#46 » by yesh » Wed Nov 9, 2016 6:57 pm

Sam Lowry Jr wrote:I feel bad for rural America who voted for him, thinking that he will bring back jobs and "make America great again". A lot of the jobs of the working and middle class in middle America are labor jobs that have been replaced by technology. These jobs aren't coming back. We might lose a generation trying to readjust and find new jobs to help these people.

What I fear is what will happen when Trump's supporters realize this and the gap between the have and have nots, the educated v. uneducated, the cultural elite v. the fly by states, etc. widen.

Living in the San Francisco Bay Area bubble, you are often shielded away from a lot of how the rest of the country is doing. Having traveled quite a bit to some of these states, however, I see the big disparity and differences that exist in a large part of the country. Last night, that divide was clear. We've seen it happen not only here in the US, but in all parts of the world. As an optimist, I hope that divide lessens over the next four years, even if we have somebody so unqualified and temperamental as Trump leading the way. As a realist, I cannot feel a little fear and anxiety...


Wait till Paul Ryan guys their benefits.
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Re: OT - Trump 

Post#47 » by floppymoose » Wed Nov 9, 2016 7:27 pm

GoldenState4Life wrote:
clyde21 wrote:
GoldenState4Life wrote:
Ktvu app/sfgate.com, vandalism in Oakland overnight by a small (100 people) group. 1 protester hit by SUV on highway 24, teachers leading student walk outs.....


Vandilism =/= violence.


The severely injured woman on highway 24 disagrees with you.


I don't know the details on the accident yet. So far it doesn't sound like what I would call violent protest.
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Re: OT - Trump 

Post#48 » by Left*My*Heart » Wed Nov 9, 2016 7:28 pm

It was Clinton's failure to reach the blue collar types in the rust belt, who broke from their union ties and voted for a change. You had out of work coal miners campaigning for Trump and you had Lady Gaga, Springstein, Perry out campaigning for Clinton. The Dems lost focus who they represent, the supposed common middle class and poor, but surrounding yourself with people who are totally out of touch with today's issues didn't sit well.

I have Latino and Black friends, who voted for Obama the past two elections and they voted surprisingly for Trump. They say it's because nothing has changed in the past 8 years to make their lives better. The inner city issues are the same and there is some frustration with Obama for not doing more for them. I heard several times that they feel the Democrats think we are all stupid and they know what is best for us. This was a vote against the establishment and the status quo. I know a couple of Sanders supporters, who voted for Trump. They were really pissed at Clinton's underhanded political sabotage.

Clinton has some many issues working against her, from her health, the Clinton foundation, hacked emails and FBI investigations. Trump is a dick and a polarizing figure. A candidate running with Trump's message, without the BS, would have beaten Clinton badly.

Trump is a liberal on some fronts and at least he isn't a far far right nut job.

The world needs to relax. I'm not a Trumpster, but the idea he is going to start a nuclear war is pure nonsense. I actually think a no fly zone in Syria would push Russia into a position we don't want to be in and that was Clinton's idea. There are checks and balances in place to keep a President from doing anything stupid.

Either way, I am embarrassed even if Clinton had been elected.
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Re: OT - Trump 

Post#49 » by floppymoose » Wed Nov 9, 2016 7:30 pm

Mylie10 wrote: she made most of her fortune through their foundation


She makes money, like her husband, off of speaking engagements. Those are lucrative because he is a former president and she was a Senator and first lady and Secretary of State. The Clinton Foundation doesn't have a lot of impact on their earning ability. The Clinton Foundation is just a Breitbart dog whistle.
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Re: OT - Trump 

Post#50 » by Left*My*Heart » Wed Nov 9, 2016 7:34 pm

What President or former President makes 2 mil for a speaking engagement?
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Re: OT - Trump 

Post#51 » by Left*My*Heart » Wed Nov 9, 2016 7:40 pm

I love how the Clinton and Trump supporters turn a blind eye to their candidates wrong doings. I'm totally ashamed that our supposed greatest nation in the world, turns out two misfits as our presidential candidates. This was the best we could do?

What a crime.
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Re: OT - Trump 

Post#52 » by Sam Lowry Jr » Wed Nov 9, 2016 8:00 pm

Left*My*Heart wrote:What President or former President makes 2 mil for a speaking engagement?



HRC's speaking engagement fees averaged $200,000/speech, not $2M. Also, it was much less than Trump's $1.5M for speaking fee.

http://www.cnn.com/2016/02/05/politics/hillary-clinton-bill-clinton-paid-speeches/

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/the-fight-over-hillary-clintons-speaking-fees-is-ridiculous/2016/02/05/ca4d8952-cc4e-11e5-ae11-57b6aeab993f_story.html

Not sure where you get the $2M number from, but would be curious to see.
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Re: OT - Trump 

Post#53 » by Left*My*Heart » Wed Nov 9, 2016 8:20 pm

Sam Lowry Jr wrote:
Left*My*Heart wrote:What President or former President makes 2 mil for a speaking engagement?



HRC's speaking engagement fees averaged $200,000/speech, not $2M. Also, it was much less than Trump's $1.5M for speaking fee.

http://www.cnn.com/2016/02/05/politics/hillary-clinton-bill-clinton-paid-speeches/

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/the-fight-over-hillary-clintons-speaking-fees-is-ridiculous/2016/02/05/ca4d8952-cc4e-11e5-ae11-57b6aeab993f_story.html

Not sure where you get the $2M number from, but would be curious to see.


I was referring to Bill and I was incorrect, it was a 2 year, 2mil contract for speaking engagements, though the details of the contract weren't given. The wikileaks were trying to establish a quid pro quo for contracts etc, while Clinton was secretary of state.

http://www.cnn.com/2016/10/26/politics/wikileaks-john-podesta-teneo-clinton-foundation/

The Trump speaking fee is outrageous in itself.
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Re: OT - Trump 

Post#54 » by Coxy » Wed Nov 9, 2016 8:29 pm

Left*My*Heart wrote:I love how the Clinton and Trump supporters turn a blind eye to their candidates wrong doings. I'm totally ashamed that our supposed greatest nation in the world, turns out two misfits as our presidential candidates. This was the best we could do?

What a crime.


This would seem to be the biggest issue for the rest of the world looking in I guess. Surely, as advanced as the USA are in regards to forward thinking and change, there could have been a time when reason came in and the country could have put in a no confidence vote for either. I mean, there are probably 10's of thousands of good American leaders out there that could speak for the people on actual change and not be a giant dick or pro-establishment.

Seems like democracy, in the American form, has failed this time around. Could be a chance for a review on how elections of this magnitude happen from now on. Surely Obama could have gone month to month until someone else came along.
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Re: OT - Trump 

Post#55 » by clyde21 » Wed Nov 9, 2016 8:59 pm

This was a White and Christian backlash against minorities. Simple as that. They were out in folds trying to prove that this is "their country".
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Re: OT - Trump 

Post#56 » by Left*My*Heart » Wed Nov 9, 2016 9:11 pm

Coxy wrote:
Left*My*Heart wrote:I love how the Clinton and Trump supporters turn a blind eye to their candidates wrong doings. I'm totally ashamed that our supposed greatest nation in the world, turns out two misfits as our presidential candidates. This was the best we could do?

What a crime.


This would seem to be the biggest issue for the rest of the world looking in I guess. Surely, as advanced as the USA are in regards to forward thinking and change, there could have been a time when reason came in and the country could have put in a no confidence vote for either. I mean, there are probably 10's of thousands of good American leaders out there that could speak for the people on actual change and not be a giant dick or pro-establishment.

Seems like democracy, in the American form, has failed this time around. Could be a chance for a review on how elections of this magnitude happen from now on. Surely Obama could have gone month to month until someone else came along.


I think if things weren't so rigged and those with money and power are above the law, that both candidates could have easily came under law suits, indictments, etc. Clinton came close to being indicted and I'm not sure we have heard the last of her or Bill's foundation. Had women not waited so long to claim Trump molested them, there could have been charges brought against him. I do find it odd that a woman waits 40 years to report she was raped by a billionaire. Hell rape me and you have that kind of money, either pay me off or I will tarnish your name forever. However, she waits 40 years to say something? Okay maybe, doesn't sound right.

There is some stipulation that Obama would remain in office, until the process of finding new candidates. I don't know the exact process. http://www.nydailynews.com/news/politics/clinton-trump-sick-campaign-article-1.2788686

That scared a lot of people; having Obama in office any longer than necessary and another reason why Clinton was defeated. It was a vote for 4 more years of the same.

I personally think it's funny that Trump won. A complete outsider that was up against a huge money backed political machine. I didn't vote for him and I didn't vote for Clinton either. I know of things the Clintons were doing while Bill was governor of Arkansas and it goes beyond my core values and beliefs. I'm hoping Bill and Hillary remove themselves completely from the political scene and only hope to hear about them if they are going to be indicted. This was a huge upset, in a sports analogy, Colts/Jets Superbowl.

I have had a lot of fun giving a bad time to the devote democrats and republicans.

I don't think it democracy has failed. From the outside looking in, it has been a circus, but this is a revolution. I don't hate Trump, think he is a fool at times, but he does have some good ideas. He isn't way left and he isn't way right and is actually a democrat to start with. I'm more optimistic about our future under Trump than I would ever be under Clinton. My anti-government views and overall hostility towards our main stream media are happy happy for the moment. A 2 am tweet by Trump or another video of him making him out to be more slimy than he already is, will of course ruin that.
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Re: OT - Trump 

Post#57 » by Left*My*Heart » Wed Nov 9, 2016 9:30 pm

Sam Lowry Jr wrote:I feel bad for rural America who voted for him, thinking that he will bring back jobs and "make America great again". A lot of the jobs of the working and middle class in middle America are labor jobs that have been replaced by technology. These jobs aren't coming back. We might lose a generation trying to readjust and find new jobs to help these people.

What I fear is what will happen when Trump's supporters realize this and the gap between the have and have nots, the educated v. uneducated, the cultural elite v. the fly by states, etc. widen.

Living in the San Francisco Bay Area bubble, you are often shielded away from a lot of how the rest of the country is doing. Having traveled quite a bit to some of these states, however, I see the big disparity and differences that exist in a large part of the country. Last night, that divide was clear. We've seen it happen not only here in the US, but in all parts of the world. As an optimist, I hope that divide lessens over the next four years, even if we have somebody so unqualified and temperamental as Trump leading the way. As a realist, I cannot feel a little fear and anxiety...

I actually feel more optimistic about rural and inner city America than I would under 4 more years of the same and worse. What is given for free costs someone. Socialism isn't the answer, it is a failed form of society because those that have the power, don't share and keep the rest of us down. If you are an elitist, good for you, I'm not, I'm upper middle class. There isn't a party anymore for me, I'm stuck in the middle. Unqualified is a non issue, because of regardless Trump isn't going to surround himself with a bunch of people who have no clue. I 'm not fond of some of the republicans he is going to surround himself with. The temperamental thing is big and real thing. I'm just hoping it doesn't get us into trouble. I do know that he isn't going fire a nuke, that takes more than our President to make happen. He loves his family too much to destroy the world playing that game.

The gap between the haves and have nots have grown each year. Regardless of party, there hasn't been a savior for those really in need. We would rather send our money to Haiti than to our inner cities. Yes, there is fraud and corruption here that keeps a lot of money out of the hands that need it.

My optimism is with the possibility of our economy growing and that we find work for those factory workers. Maybe we can become a leader in something again.

There was supposed to be programs in place to reeducate the workforce that had been displaced. That was an Obama objective.

As a black friend told me, he has been a democrat all of his life and this was the first election he has voted republican. He feels that the policies of the democrats has hurt him financially and civil issues are the same for him. He actually has helped me feel better about Trump.
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Re: OT - Trump 

Post#58 » by Left*My*Heart » Wed Nov 9, 2016 9:40 pm

clyde21 wrote:This was a White and Christian backlash against minorities. Simple as that. They were out in folds trying to prove that this is "their country".

Wow really? I think the white and Christian vote were up, but I know multiple minorities that voted for Trump. I view statements like these as a reason we aren't going anywhere on the race front. The democrats painted a picture of uneducated whitie that was Trump's backers.

I think you will find that in certain areas of the country he had strong Latino support. The only Latinos I know that didn't support him, have relatives in this country illegally. I have a Muslim friend that voted for Trump. I only know of a couple of my black friends who did not vote for Trump.

It isn't popular to be a minority and support Trump.
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Re: OT - Trump 

Post#59 » by Sam Lowry Jr » Wed Nov 9, 2016 10:14 pm

Left*My*Heart wrote:
My optimism is with the possibility of our economy growing and that we find work for those factory workers. Maybe we can become a leader in something again.

There was supposed to be programs in place to reeducate the workforce that had been displaced. That was an Obama objective.


Yeah, the factory worker jobs have been displaced by technology and productivity gains. I think reeducation of workforce is needed, but it's no quick fix and in the end, it might be at the cost of a generation of Americans before something is developed; what these new jobs are and what skill sets are needed for them are still ill-defined.

And that's my biggest fear, that a lot of America has already lost her patience (obviously from this election) and when Trump - or whoever - doesn't fulfill his/her promise in 4-8 years, where does that leave us?
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Re: OT - Trump 

Post#60 » by Coxy » Wed Nov 9, 2016 10:30 pm

America sure is damn complicated.

Just split the country up into 3. East, West and Mid. Elect a leader for each. It's too big and critical for the planet to have a country pivotal for the worlds economy to be so messed up now. Thanks, /end rant.

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