OT: The next President of the United States: ★★★ Donald Trump ★★★

[League Circles]

I think SVG should be ashamed of himself for saying:

I don’t know even know if I have political differences with him. I don’t even know what are his politics. I don’t know, other than to build a wall and 'I hate people of color, and women are to be treated as sex objects and as servants to men.' I don’t know how you get past that. I don’t know how you walk into the booth and vote for that.

The bolded is just an outright lie. No wonder he is so upset. He's working on the premise of a lie.

IDK, I was pissed last night, just like I was pissed when Rose was traded. I'm trying to be positive now, just like I did when Gar and Pax turned to Rondo, etc.

FWIW, there are things about Donald that I think are absolutely disgusting and unacceptable, such as making fun of people's appearance (we've all done it but doing it in public as an adult in power is despicable), and making fun of that reporter's disability. That's some low, low ****.

Its not a "lie" b/c you disagree.

Correct. It's a lie because he never said anything remotely like those things.

[kulaz3000]

I have to agree with Michael Moore, and some other people who have discussed why Hillary lost. The fact is, Trump no matter what type of gibberish he muttered, he said them with conviction and purpose, and everywhere he spoke he had a clear message for the people which riled them up and the bottom line is he got the every day people so riled up to want to get out and vote. On the flip side, Hillary said things that she and her people thought the public wanted to hear, with no conviction, no hard stance on any particular issue, and was flaky as hell. I bet if you asked every single American who they'd vote for, Hillary would win, but when it mattered Hillary simply didn't give enough people reason to go out and vote.

Trump played the media and the people like puppets, he used-fan fare, mob mentality, he got the media to talk about nonsense that didn't matter, and most of all he got enough people excited enough to get out and vote. Hillary went into this election trying not to lose, whereas Trump when in guns blazing, and getting people excited both in a negative way, or a positive way, he summoned some sort of reaction from the people regardless, Hillary did none of that. Trump got people to care, whether you agreed with those people or not, just look at all those rallies, those people regardless of how misinformed they were actually cared and were pumped to go out and vote no matter how long the lines were.

On a side note, can I say in the most non-sexist way possible, the notion that women should have vote for Hillary because she is a women and America finally deserves an woman to be president was such bull. Every time I heard that, it just infuriated me! It really did, because yes, a woman has every right to be the president of the greatest country on the planet but it should be for the right reasons, not because she is just the first woman to run! America deserves a great President, they'll need to wait another 4 years at a chance at that.

[Rerisen]

Yes, that's always my main point when I counter in the way I've done here on these issues. Calling Donald Trump a racist a thousand times isn't going to create better policy, and it certainly isn't going to win over the hearts and minds of his supporters.

Often I think lots of people don't want to win over hearts and minds and live in harmony. They want to achieve ideological defeat of their opponents, win everything 51/49, and dance on the graves of their opponents for the brief period of "victory" they feel they have won.

It's interesting that 42% of the electorate now identifies as Independent and its growing all the time. Less and less people are tying party affiliation as central to their core identity. Which is a positive, as when you do that, it seems almost invariably the other side ends up being seen as unconscionably evil.

[kingkirk]

Oh, OK. Did you have equally honest outrage over the incredibly racist Australian politicians?

http://www.aljazeera.com/indepth/features/2016/07/australia-pauline-hanson-wins-anti-islam-ticket-160710095439162.html

If you didn't think my question was honest, you haven't learned much about me in 12 years here, which sucks. Please see my reply to GardenofSound if you don't believe my comment.

Yes, I'm pissed off that a muppet like Pauline Hanson is able to be a politican in my country. She is human trash. It's equally disturbing that we have stupid ass people supporting her nonsense, though thankfully, her power and word is minuscule in my country in comparison to the nonsense spoken by your president and the groups that support him.

The One Nation party in Australia and their actions in government campaigning is barely a bleep in comparison to the goings on of this US election. Trump & Co make Hanson look humane.

[kulaz3000]

Oh, OK. Did you have equally honest outrage over the incredibly racist Australian politicians?

http://www.aljazeera.com/indepth/features/2016/07/australia-pauline-hanson-wins-anti-islam-ticket-160710095439162.html

If you didn't think my question was honest, you haven't learned much about me in 12 years here, which sucks. Please see my reply to GardenofSound if you don't believe my comment.

Yes, I'm pissed off that a muppet like Pauline Hanson is able to be a politican in my country. She is human trash. It's equally disturbing that we have stupid ass people supporting her nonsense, though thankfully, her power and word is minuscule in my country in comparison to the nonsense spoken by your president and the groups that support him.

The One Nation party in Australia and their actions in government campaigning is barely a bleep in comparison to the goings on of this US election. Trump & Co make Hanson look humane.

And thank goodness for that. Now that I'm a permanent resident in Australia, I've seen her mug on the news every so often and each time she speaks I just cringe. I'm just thankful she doesn't have half the charisma that Trump has otherwise she could very well have a chance to rally around more support, because though she does have supports it's still very much taboo to do so in my opinion.

[FecesOfDeath]

Trump got people to care, whether you agreed with those people or not, just look at all those rallies, those people regardless of how misinformed they were actually cared and were pumped to go out and vote no matter how long the lines were.

That's an incredibly bigoted and backhanded compliment.

[Rerisen]

Oh, OK. Did you have equally honest outrage over the incredibly racist Australian politicians?

http://www.aljazeera.com/indepth/features/2016/07/australia-pauline-hanson-wins-anti-islam-ticket-160710095439162.html

If you didn't think my question was honest, you haven't learned much about me in 12 years here, which sucks. Please see my reply to GardenofSound if you don't believe my comment.

Yes, I'm pissed off that a muppet like Pauline Hanson is able to be a politican in my country. She is human trash. It's equally disturbing that we have stupid ass people supporting her nonsense, though thankfully, her power and word is minuscule in my country in comparison to the nonsense spoken by your president and the groups that support him.

The One Nation party in Australia and their actions in government campaigning is barely a bleep in comparison to the goings on of this US election. Trump & Co make Hanson look humane.

Is is true Australia has one of the most stringent immigration policies around? That you take in only specialized people deemed needed in the economy (doctors, scientists, etc) while shipping anyone else who arrives back to essentially offshore detention camps? Is there outcry about this at large or is it deemed a sensible strategy there? From what I've read both major parties support this.

[Gandalf]

/edit

[TheStig]

Watch on YouTube

So fitting....

[burlydee]

I think SVG should be ashamed of himself for saying:

I don’t know even know if I have political differences with him. I don’t even know what are his politics. I don’t know, other than to build a wall and 'I hate people of color, and women are to be treated as sex objects and as servants to men.' I don’t know how you get past that. I don’t know how you walk into the booth and vote for that.

The bolded is just an outright lie. No wonder he is so upset. He's working on the premise of a lie.

IDK, I was pissed last night, just like I was pissed when Rose was traded. I'm trying to be positive now, just like I did when Gar and Pax turned to Rondo, etc.

FWIW, there are things about Donald that I think are absolutely disgusting and unacceptable, such as making fun of people's appearance (we've all done it but doing it in public as an adult in power is despicable), and making fun of that reporter's disability. That's some low, low ****.

Its not a "lie" b/c you disagree.

Correct. It's a lie because he never said anything remotely like those things.

He was accused by 8 women of inappropriate sexual conduct bordering on assault. He has made numerous abusive comments about women's appearance solely on the basis of disagreeing with him. His ex-wife claimed that she raped him in sealed court filings (that were leaked). He stated "I can grab them by the..." You know what? You can help those who are willfully ignorant.

[League Circles]

Oh, OK. Did you have equally honest outrage over the incredibly racist Australian politicians?

http://www.aljazeera.com/indepth/features/2016/07/australia-pauline-hanson-wins-anti-islam-ticket-160710095439162.html

If you didn't think my question was honest, you haven't learned much about me in 12 years here, which sucks. Please see my reply to GardenofSound if you don't believe my comment.

Yes, I'm pissed off that a muppet like Pauline Hanson is able to be a politican in my country. She is human trash. It's equally disturbing that we have stupid ass people supporting her nonsense, though thankfully, her power and word is minuscule in my country in comparison to the nonsense spoken by your president and the groups that support him.

The One Nation party in Australia and their actions in government campaigning is barely a bleep in comparison to the goings on of this US election. Trump & Co make Hanson look humane.

Is is true Austrailia has one of the most stringent immigration policies around? That you take in only specialized people deemed needed in the economy (doctors, scientists, etc) while shipping anyone else who arrives back to essentially offshore detention camps? Is there outcry about this at large or is it deemed a sensible strategy there? From what I've read both major parties support this.

I won't answer for Mark as I don't know, but if so that is particularly egregious as Australia has a very low population density and, similar to the US, a history marked by outsiders destroying indigenous people culture in the relatively recent past. (my point is that countries like the US, UK but especially extra low population density countries like Canada and Australia should probably welcome a little more than their share of immigrants.

[Rerisen]

I won't answer for Mark as I don't know, but if so that is particularly egregious as Australia has a very low population density and, similar to the US, a history marked by outsiders destroying indigenous people culture in the relatively recent past. (my point is that countries like the US, UK but especially extra low population density countries like Canada and Australia should probably welcome a little more than their share of immigrants.

I only mention it here because I've heard several hardline politicians cite their model approvingly. Numbers I can find is yearly asylum to Australia is about 13,000 (26000 next year). As a percentage of population that would be small fraction of what the US does. While wild rhetoric against illegal immigrants is counterproductive and unnecessary, the reality is the US offers a better life to an amazingly larger percentage of people every year.

[League Circles]

Its not a "lie" b/c you disagree.

Correct. It's a lie because he never said anything remotely like those things.

He was accused by 8 women of inappropriate sexual conduct bordering on assault. He has made numerous abusive comments about women's appearance solely on the basis of disagreeing with him. His ex-wife claimed that she raped him in sealed court filings (that were leaked). He stated "I can grab them by the..." You know what? You can help those who are willfully ignorant.

All of that could be true (or untrue to some extent), and it still would not mean that he "hates people of color" or that women should be treated as servants of men or as sex objects (I've never fully understood what that term is supposed to mean).

IMO it's entirely possible that those sexual wrongs he may have committed were the result of incredible arrogance, horniness, and an incredibly inaccurate self image and inaccurate sense of how attracted women were to him, rather than some sort of belief that they should be serving him or treated as "sex objects". But hey, if it involves women or minorities and it's in any way negative, let's just go for the top shelf in vitriol.

[burlydee]

Correct. It's a lie because he never said anything remotely like those things.

He was accused by 8 women of inappropriate sexual conduct bordering on assault. He has made numerous abusive comments about women's appearance solely on the basis of disagreeing with him. His ex-wife claimed that she raped him in sealed court filings (that were leaked). He stated "I can grab them by the..." You know what? You can help those who are willfully ignorant.

All of that could be true (or untrue to some extent), and it still would not mean that he "hates people of color" or that women should be treated as servants of men or as sex objects (I've never fully understood what that term is supposed to mean).

IMO it's entirely possible that those sexual wrongs he may have committed were the result of incredible arrogance, horniness, and an incredibly inaccurate self image and inaccurate sense of how attracted women were to him, rather than some sort of belief that they should be serving him or treated as "sex objects". But hey, if it involves women or minorities and it's in any way negative, let's just go for the top shelf in vitriol.

He has a long history of insulting comment to and about women - http://www.telegraph.co.uk/women/politics/donald-trump-sexism-tracker-every-offensive-comment-in-one-place/

You called Stan Van Gundy a liar. Stan Van Gundy never said "Donald Trump said these things." He said Donald Trump views women as sex objects. I think that is a valid opinion based on his own statements. I'm not going to go through Trump's history of racism, which includes 2 housing discrimination suits and an employment discrimination suit and a little thing where he spent about 8 years wondering if the current President was born in Kenya. Its okay if you're fine with all that, but don't start call people liars b/c they point it out. You're one of those people who thinks accusations of racism and sexism are worse than racism and sexism themselves.

[CjayC]

It should've been Bernie, but the DNC the sad sacks of **** they are were too busy undermining and conspiring agaisnt him to rally around him. He actually got the young people pumped up and involved, Civil Rights track record, etc... Who could get pumped for Hillary? Heck I heard she never even set foot in the state of Wisconsin. What a complete joke.

[kingkirk]

Is is true Australia has one of the most stringent immigration policies around? That you take in only specialized people deemed needed in the economy (doctors, scientists, etc) while shipping anyone else who arrives back to essentially offshore detention camps? Is there outcry about this at large or is it deemed a sensible strategy there? From what I've read both major parties support this.

I couldn’t tell you if it’s one of the most stringent immigration policies as I’m ignorant to other countries and their policies, though imo, it’s absurdly harsh and inhumane. It’s not as black and white as you suggest – though no doubt we have some screening that occurs. The offshore detention centers are typically reserved for those who come here via boat, which is a big problem if you listen to the government.

To me, it’s ridiculous and shameful how we treat these refugees. They’re fleeing their countries and risking their lives jumping on these terrible boats that could sink at any moment, all for a chance to just live a normal life. If they survive the trip, they’re often caught and marooned on an offshore island. It’s horrible.

Racism and xenophobia is certainly an issue here, one that is growing. It’s continually swept under the rug and our leaders continue to suggest we tolerate and not racist, but that’s bullsh*t. How history towards our indigenious people, even to this day, suggests otherwise.

[kingkirk]

And thank goodness for that. Now that I'm a permanent resident in Australia, I've seen her mug on the news every so often and each time she speaks I just cringe. I'm just thankful she doesn't have half the charisma that Trump has otherwise she could very well have a chance to rally around more support, because though she does have supports it's still very much taboo to do so in my opinion.

Wow, didn't know you were living out here now. Where abouts?

Not sure if you ever saw that episode of Q&A a few months back when she was on, but it was deplorable. Here's a snippet.

Watch on YouTube

Anyways, I'm ranting now and making this thread all about my own lefty ideologies. Should probably recede back into the basketball world to escape all this nonsense.

[League Circles]

He was accused by 8 women of inappropriate sexual conduct bordering on assault. He has made numerous abusive comments about women's appearance solely on the basis of disagreeing with him. His ex-wife claimed that she raped him in sealed court filings (that were leaked). He stated "I can grab them by the..." You know what? You can help those who are willfully ignorant.

All of that could be true (or untrue to some extent), and it still would not mean that he "hates people of color" or that women should be treated as servants of men or as sex objects (I've never fully understood what that term is supposed to mean).

IMO it's entirely possible that those sexual wrongs he may have committed were the result of incredible arrogance, horniness, and an incredibly inaccurate self image and inaccurate sense of how attracted women were to him, rather than some sort of belief that they should be serving him or treated as "sex objects". But hey, if it involves women or minorities and it's in any way negative, let's just go for the top shelf in vitriol.

He has a long history of insulting comment to and about women - http://www.telegraph.co.uk/women/politics/donald-trump-sexism-tracker-every-offensive-comment-in-one-place/

You called Stan Van Gundy a liar. Stan Van Gundy never said "Donald Trump said these things." He said Donald Trump views women as sex objects. I think that is a valid opinion based on his own statements. I'm not going to go through Trump's history of racism, which includes 2 housing discrimination suits and an employment discrimination suit and a little thing where he spent about 8 years wondering if the current President was born in Kenya. Its okay if you're fine with all that, but don't start call people liars b/c they point it out. You're one of those people who thinks accusations of racism and sexism are worse than racism and sexism themselves.

Insulting women based on their looks is offensive and grade A ass hole behavior, but it's not sexist.

I'm not very familiar with the details of this lawsuit so I will not comment. If I recall correctly they were not successful lawsuits and if I'm correct on that they showed little in the way of proving racism. The birther issue was absurd in my opinion but I still wouldn't call it racist. It was more like it was carefully concocted to appeal to racists. And in an effective way apparently. I do not believe that accusations of racism and sexism are worse than racism and sexism. However I believe they are much much more common than the relatively rare real racism and sexism which are rare because they are illogical and almost all Americans have been exposed to how illogical they are. That said there is a lot of misogyny and xenophobia in our society and Trump very well may exhibit those character flaws. I definitely believe that Donald Trump is an absolute **** and a bad guy. To me that's enough. It doesn't need to be extended to the catchphrases the gotcha phrases such as racist and sexist.

[Rerisen]

Is is true Australia has one of the most stringent immigration policies around? That you take in only specialized people deemed needed in the economy (doctors, scientists, etc) while shipping anyone else who arrives back to essentially offshore detention camps? Is there outcry about this at large or is it deemed a sensible strategy there? From what I've read both major parties support this.

I couldn’t tell you if it’s one of the most stringent immigration policies as I’m ignorant to other countries and their policies, though imo, it’s absurdly harsh and inhumane. It’s not as black and white as you suggest – though no doubt we have some screening that occurs. The offshore detention centers are typically reserved for those who come here via boat, which is a big problem if you listen to the government.

To me, it’s ridiculous and shameful how we treat these refugees. They’re fleeing their countries and risking their lives jumping on these terrible boats that could sink at any moment, all for a chance to just live a normal life. If they survive the trip, they’re often caught and marooned on an offshore island. It’s horrible.

Racism and xenophobia is certainly an issue here, one that is growing. It’s continually swept under the rug and our leaders continue to suggest we tolerate and not racist, but that’s bullsh*t. How history towards our indigenious people, even to this day, suggests otherwise.

The conditions are pretty bad from the stories I've read, there must be a better compromising solution somewhere. But I also doubt most Australians would welcome as many people as could reach their shores. Maybe my assumption is wrong, but if they did I'm sure they could make it an issue and vote similar thinking politicians in.

The situation the US faces is tougher because of a shared border and Trump's way of talking about it was indeed extremely overboard. At the same time I think there is absolutely zero chance he is going to be deporting 12 million people. Breaking up established families and ruining lives is inhumane. However saying that, its not the same as saying there should be incredibly lax border control for unlimited numbers forever more. I personally suspect (hope) he would negotiate his position down to better controlling the border in whatever fashion, which is not a racist thing for a country to do. Semi open border policy is not really rational as we are seeing in Europe, and has to be thought in a deeper way than just a cynical push for expected one way voters.

[waffle]

Correct. It's a lie because he never said anything remotely like those things.

He was accused by 8 women of inappropriate sexual conduct bordering on assault. He has made numerous abusive comments about women's appearance solely on the basis of disagreeing with him. His ex-wife claimed that she raped him in sealed court filings (that were leaked). He stated "I can grab them by the..." You know what? You can help those who are willfully ignorant.

All of that could be true (or untrue to some extent), and it still would not mean that he "hates people of color" or that women should be treated as servants of men or as sex objects (I've never fully understood what that term is supposed to mean).

IMO it's entirely possible that those sexual wrongs he may have committed were the result of incredible arrogance, horniness, and an incredibly inaccurate self image and inaccurate sense of how attracted women were to him, rather than some sort of belief that they should be serving him or treated as "sex objects". But hey, if it involves women or minorities and it's in any way negative, let's just go for the top shelf in vitriol.

I don't think you can really pull apart the 2.