The (Where Ainges Fear to) Trade Thread, 2016-17 (1.0)
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Re: The (Where Ainges Fear to) Trade Thread, 2016-17 (1.0)
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Re: The (Where Ainges Fear to) Trade Thread, 2016-17 (1.0)
What about Koufos, 7 boards in 21 minutes per game, 11 per 36 for his career. I'm pretty sure his salary his low enough that we could still squeeze in a max guy in the offseason.
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Re: The (Where Ainges Fear to) Trade Thread, 2016-17 (1.0)
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Re: The (Where Ainges Fear to) Trade Thread, 2016-17 (1.0)
OFWGKTA wrote:What about Koufos, 7 boards in 21 minutes per game, 11 per 36 for his career. I'm pretty sure his salary his low enough that we could still squeeze in a max guy in the offseason.
Would be on the hook for 8.5m per year for the next two years. Not good enough to justify. The new rules basically hamstring us from taking *anything* beyond this season. Even a guy making 3m or something would be dicey.
Re: The (Where Ainges Fear to) Trade Thread, 2016-17 (1.0)
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Re: The (Where Ainges Fear to) Trade Thread, 2016-17 (1.0)
Curmudgeon wrote:cl2117 wrote:Yeah but Chandler's deal is 100x worse than Bogut's.
Only if you plan to let Bogut walk at the end of the year. If healthy, Bogut is a 15 million a year player (at least) at today's salary levels and you've wasted your assets on a one year rental.
Absolutely plan to let Bogut walk. Would be looking for a better long term fit.
If you trade for Chandler, when he's 35/36 and a shell of his former self, you'll have to waste even more assets to dump his contract so that you can get that better long-term fit anyway.
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Re: The (Where Ainges Fear to) Trade Thread, 2016-17 (1.0)
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Re: The (Where Ainges Fear to) Trade Thread, 2016-17 (1.0)
Banks2Pierce wrote:OFWGKTA wrote:What about Koufos, 7 boards in 21 minutes per game, 11 per 36 for his career. I'm pretty sure his salary his low enough that we could still squeeze in a max guy in the offseason.
Would be on the hook for 8.5m per year for the next two years. Not good enough to justify. The new rules basically hamstring us from taking *anything* beyond this season. Even a guy making 3m or something would be dicey.
Could always try to dump him for nothing to a team with cap space though.
Koufos really wouldn't be my target, but I think there are plenty of guys who have contracts that extend beyond this year, but who are eminently moveable if need be like Vucevic or Faried and who might help us this year.
I'm not totally writing off taking on a guy who has money that goes beyond this year, but if Danny were to go that route I'd want him to make sure it was a guy who could be moved very easily for nothing/small value to clear that space.
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Re: The (Where Ainges Fear to) Trade Thread, 2016-17 (1.0)
cl2117 wrote:Could always try to dump him for nothing to a team with cap space though.
Koufos really wouldn't be my target, but I think there are plenty of guys who have contracts that extend beyond this year, but who are eminently moveable if need be like Vucevic or Faried and who might help us this year.
An injury or underperformance and you suddenly can't move them. Or we have to attach 1st round picks to them or other guys just to get them off the books. Not to mention right now(until the New Year), the salary matcher is probably Amir or a few young guys that we might still have some interest in. Faried and Vuc may be better fits with our current roster, but not adding a ton more in the win column in comparison with Amir.
Re: The (Where Ainges Fear to) Trade Thread, 2016-17 (1.0)
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Re: The (Where Ainges Fear to) Trade Thread, 2016-17 (1.0)
Banks2Pierce wrote:cl2117 wrote:Could always try to dump him for nothing to a team with cap space though.
Koufos really wouldn't be my target, but I think there are plenty of guys who have contracts that extend beyond this year, but who are eminently moveable if need be like Vucevic or Faried and who might help us this year.
An injury or underperformance and you suddenly can't move them. Or we have to attach 1st round picks to them or other guys just to get them off the books. Not to mention right now(until the New Year), the salary matcher is probably Amir or a few young guys that we might still have some interest in. Faried and Vuc may be better fits with our current roster, but not adding a ton more in the win column in comparison with Amir.
No I agree they aren't the right fit for where we're at, I think Bogut epitomizes what we need.
That being said I really wouldn't shy away from getting a guy like Vuc or Faried or Lopez etc. despite their contracts extending, if we could do so at a really good price. Yes there is risk that an injury could make them immovable (less worried about underperformance since they're younger vets so you kind of know what you're getting already and their contracts aren't bad). At the same time though it does also help insulate you from the risk that we enter FA this summer and can't get anything done and can't land a firework worthy trade offer. You've then got a nice fit already on your roster to take into 2017 and hope something develops during the season.
Again it's not ideal, but I also don't like the idea of writing off almost anybody who isn't a star who has multiple years on their contract. If you can get one of those guys at a good price now and wouldn't have to give up much to dump them next year (barring injury of course) I think that's a viable alternative to nabbing a Bogut or Z-bo expiring big that is obviously a better fitting route.
I also wouldn't consider it until Zeller is available to be moved. Danny needs to see this team healthy and on the court for an extended period of time before he can know definitively what we need. I mean obviously rebounding is a concern, but with more time Ainge will better be able to tell if that production can come from either the PF or C position or if we specifically need a C etc. etc. No rush, wait until Tyler can be the filler and then start making your calls.
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Re: The (Where Ainges Fear to) Trade Thread, 2016-17 (1.0)
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Re: The (Where Ainges Fear to) Trade Thread, 2016-17 (1.0)
We need a rebounder. Nothing could be more obvious. And Zeller is unmoveable unless you are willing to take back a longer contract.
I like Bogut, but I wouldn't be willing to pay for what Dallas would almost certainly demand in retun, especially if I did not expect to keep him beyond the end of this year.
I like Bogut, but I wouldn't be willing to pay for what Dallas would almost certainly demand in retun, especially if I did not expect to keep him beyond the end of this year.
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Re: The (Where Ainges Fear to) Trade Thread, 2016-17 (1.0)
Banks2Pierce wrote:OFWGKTA wrote:What about Koufos, 7 boards in 21 minutes per game, 11 per 36 for his career. I'm pretty sure his salary his low enough that we could still squeeze in a max guy in the offseason.
Would be on the hook for 8.5m per year for the next two years. Not good enough to justify. The new rules basically hamstring us from taking *anything* beyond this season. Even a guy making 3m or something would be dicey.
That's why you trade Bradley for him and Mclemore. Or Amir/Jae for Gay/Koufos. You can do cap neutral deals that way..
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Re: The (Where Ainges Fear to) Trade Thread, 2016-17 (1.0)
Andrew McCeltic wrote:Banks2Pierce wrote:OFWGKTA wrote:What about Koufos, 7 boards in 21 minutes per game, 11 per 36 for his career. I'm pretty sure his salary his low enough that we could still squeeze in a max guy in the offseason.
Would be on the hook for 8.5m per year for the next two years. Not good enough to justify. The new rules basically hamstring us from taking *anything* beyond this season. Even a guy making 3m or something would be dicey.
That's why you trade Bradley for him and Mclemore. Or Amir/Jae for Gay/Koufos. You can do cap neutral deals that way..
Well the goal of acquiring a low key rebounder is to do so without losing any of our main guys consisting of IT/Smart/Bradley/Horford/Crowder/Olynyk. Plus Bradley could get us a better guy than Koufos and McLemore.
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Re: The (Where Ainges Fear to) Trade Thread, 2016-17 (1.0)
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Re: The (Where Ainges Fear to) Trade Thread, 2016-17 (1.0)
Edug27 wrote:Marvel wrote:Edug27 wrote:
Lol. I'll be sure to check back in.
Wait, what are we disagreeing on here...that i'll come off the AB hype train?
Some combination of the following..
1. You'll realize Hayward is a much better overall player than Bradley.
2. That Bradley isn't going to be a center piece for a package for a super star.
3. Hayward is the best you'll get for Bradley.
4. Hayward is worth 20+ mil and Bradley isn't.. but he'll still command it.
5. Hayward and Noel give us a better shot at Cleveland and make us a much better overall team.
I love Avery Bradley. Heck of a 2-way player..He's also a good person on and off the court. And I'm not trading him in a package for Gordon Hayward considering we can straight up sign Hayward as a Free agent this summer. Imagine if Boston traded Smart/2016BK for Horford last season? Exactly. Patience is key here folks.
Let's not panic. This team hasn't been 100% yet. Smart/KO were out the first few games...and as soon as Smart came back we lost Horford and then Crowder. Now KO is back....Horford and Crowder will be back soon. Lets see how this full unit does. In basketball it's amazing what 1 or 2 guys can do for a depth chart. with these guys back, suddenly everyone is back in order.
IT-Bradley-Crowder-Horford-Amir
Rozier-Smart-JBrown-Jonas-KO with Mickey-Green-Zeller-Jackson-Young available for spot minutes.
Danny can't and won't make panic moves. Remember, this is an 82-game season. The Celtics were 14-13 through 27 games last season!
Everyone just relax. I do agree that we need another rebounder. And I think eventually Danny does something to help address our issues on the boards. But he isn't going to sacrifice our future OR sacrifice our cap space in order to do so. He will wait for the right opportunity to add someone...Right now, most teams are still feeling their way through and trying to figure out who they are. The Celtics are obviously one of those teams.
Panic moves rarely work out. Joe Johnson being traded for Delk/Rodgers way back when is a panic move.
Re: The (Where Ainges Fear to) Trade Thread, 2016-17 (1.0)
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Re: The (Where Ainges Fear to) Trade Thread, 2016-17 (1.0)
Edug27 wrote:Marvel wrote:Edug27 wrote:
Lol. I'll be sure to check back in.
Wait, what are we disagreeing on here...that i'll come off the AB hype train?
Some combination of the following..
1. You'll realize Hayward is a much better overall player than Bradley.
2. That Bradley isn't going to be a center piece for a package for a super star.
3. Hayward is the best you'll get for Bradley.
4. Hayward is worth 20+ mil and Bradley isn't.. but he'll still command it.
5. Hayward and Noel give us a better shot at Cleveland and make us a much better overall team.
Let me disillusion you on this one. You are not getting Hayward for Bradley... and if it's a package with Bradley in it... Bradley won't be the main piece in that package.
Re: The (Where Ainges Fear to) Trade Thread, 2016-17 (1.0)
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Re: The (Where Ainges Fear to) Trade Thread, 2016-17 (1.0)
ddb wrote:I love Avery Bradley. Heck of a 2-way player..He's also a good person on and off the court. And I'm not trading him in a package for Gordon Hayward considering we can straight up sign Hayward as a Free agent this summer. Imagine if Boston traded Smart/2016BK for Horford last season? Exactly. Patience is key here folks.
I love Avery as well. But he is the player we need to move in my opinion. Doesn't need to be now, but eventually. So I'm just tossing names out there that would make good deals and upgrade the roster. Hayward is an upgrade over Bradley. You bring up a good point of signing Hayward in the summer... But didn't Danny want IT during the summer, and ended up having to trade for him.
Let's not panic. This team hasn't been 100% yet. Smart/KO were out the first few games...and as soon as Smart came back we lost Horford and then Crowder. Now KO is back....Horford and Crowder will be back soon. Lets see how this full unit does. In basketball it's amazing what 1 or 2 guys can do for a depth chart. with these guys back, suddenly everyone is back in order.
Agree. No one should panic. But I do believe Danny needs to be aggressive around the deadline time. You don't invest 110+ million in Horford to just keep the roster as is.
Danny can't and won't make panic moves. Remember, this is an 82-game season. The Celtics were 14-13 through 27 games last season!
Yes agree. But this roster is better than last year. The expectations are higher than last years. So you shouldn't expect the same record and results.
Everyone just relax. I do agree that we need another rebounder.
Rebounder and a player who can create their own shot.
Re: The (Where Ainges Fear to) Trade Thread, 2016-17 (1.0)
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Re: The (Where Ainges Fear to) Trade Thread, 2016-17 (1.0)
Who is trading for Hayward? He's a free agent in July.
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Re: The (Where Ainges Fear to) Trade Thread, 2016-17 (1.0)
stitches wrote:Edug27 wrote:Marvel wrote:
Wait, what are we disagreeing on here...that i'll come off the AB hype train?
Some combination of the following..
1. You'll realize Hayward is a much better overall player than Bradley.
2. That Bradley isn't going to be a center piece for a package for a super star.
3. Hayward is the best you'll get for Bradley.
4. Hayward is worth 20+ mil and Bradley isn't.. but he'll still command it.
5. Hayward and Noel give us a better shot at Cleveland and make us a much better overall team.
Let me disillusion you on this one. You are not getting Hayward for Bradley... and if it's a package with Bradley in it... Bradley won't be the main piece in that package.
Of course. I just threw it out there. Hayward is a free agent this summer if he chooses to be.. If Utah does not plan on resigning, or he plans to test the market, then it makes that an interesting situation where Utah doesn't have a boat load of leverage. Just interesting stuff to think about.
Re: The (Where Ainges Fear to) Trade Thread, 2016-17 (1.0)
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Re: The (Where Ainges Fear to) Trade Thread, 2016-17 (1.0)
Curmudgeon wrote:Who is trading for Hayward? He's a free agent in July.
.... teams don't trade for players who will be free agents?
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Re: The (Where Ainges Fear to) Trade Thread, 2016-17 (1.0)
Edug27 wrote:Curmudgeon wrote:Who is trading for Hayward? He's a free agent in July.
.... teams don't trade for players who will be free agents?
Sure they do, but the price goes down unless the player is willing to sign an immediate extension, which in today's NBA never happens.
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Re: The (Where Ainges Fear to) Trade Thread, 2016-17 (1.0)
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Re: The (Where Ainges Fear to) Trade Thread, 2016-17 (1.0)
Edug27 wrote:stitches wrote:Edug27 wrote:
Some combination of the following..
1. You'll realize Hayward is a much better overall player than Bradley.
2. That Bradley isn't going to be a center piece for a package for a super star.
3. Hayward is the best you'll get for Bradley.
4. Hayward is worth 20+ mil and Bradley isn't.. but he'll still command it.
5. Hayward and Noel give us a better shot at Cleveland and make us a much better overall team.
Let me disillusion you on this one. You are not getting Hayward for Bradley... and if it's a package with Bradley in it... Bradley won't be the main piece in that package.
Of course. I just threw it out there. Hayward is a free agent this summer if he chooses to be.. If Utah does not plan on resigning, or he plans to test the market, then it makes that an interesting situation where Utah doesn't have a boat load of leverage. Just interesting stuff to think about.
If I had to guess Utah will pay whatever it takes to keep him. About the leverage - Utah has about 45 million more leverages than any other team, but I doubt this would be his main concern if he want to leave. The main consideration for him I think will be whether or not he sees good future for the team and himself competitively. The only reason to trade him would be if he in no uncertain terms tells the FO that he leans towards leaving after the season. I see no other reason they would trade him at this current moment.
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Re: The (Where Ainges Fear to) Trade Thread, 2016-17 (1.0)
Curmudgeon wrote:Edug27 wrote:Curmudgeon wrote:Who is trading for Hayward? He's a free agent in July.
.... teams don't trade for players who will be free agents?
Sure they do, but the price goes down unless the player is willing to sign an immediate extension, which in today's NBA never happens.
I don't think Boston would be too concerned with losing him in free agency... Especially if they are wiling to pay him.
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Re: The (Where Ainges Fear to) Trade Thread, 2016-17 (1.0)
stitches wrote:Edug27 wrote:stitches wrote:
Let me disillusion you on this one. You are not getting Hayward for Bradley... and if it's a package with Bradley in it... Bradley won't be the main piece in that package.
Of course. I just threw it out there. Hayward is a free agent this summer if he chooses to be.. If Utah does not plan on resigning, or he plans to test the market, then it makes that an interesting situation where Utah doesn't have a boat load of leverage. Just interesting stuff to think about.
If I had to guess Utah will pay whatever it takes to keep him. About the leverage - Utah has about 45 million more leverages than any other team, but I doubt this would be his main concern if he want to leave. The main consideration for him I think will be whether or not he sees good future for the team and himself competitively. The only reason to trade him would be if he in no uncertain terms tells the FO that he leans towards leaving after the season. I see no other reason they would trade him at this current moment.
Right. Again, it's just a hypothetical.
Re: The (Where Ainges Fear to) Trade Thread, 2016-17 (1.0)
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Re: The (Where Ainges Fear to) Trade Thread, 2016-17 (1.0)
Sure Utah would trade Hayward, but not at a discount.
"Numbers lie alot. Wins and losses don't lie." - Jerry West
"You are what your record says you are."- Bill Parcells
"Offense sells tickets. Defense wins games. Rebounding wins championships." Pat Summit
"You are what your record says you are."- Bill Parcells
"Offense sells tickets. Defense wins games. Rebounding wins championships." Pat Summit