The media is amazing.

[AshBlackstone]

Tobias Harris is basically the same player he was in Orlando, with worse rebounding, and we suddenly traded an allegedly budding superstar for nothing.

At 24 years old, and another year of looking exactly the same....it appears the only thing we traded was a high end role player.

But my how the media perception of him has changed.

[KingRobb02]

Are you ignoring the fact that he was pretty good when he was here? No one thought he was a bad player, just no real role on this team as a bully scorer. The criticism comes from us dumping guys for a playoff push, when we weren't really at that point on the rebuild timeline.

[AshBlackstone]

Are you ignoring the fact that he was pretty good when he was here? No one thought he was a bad player, just no real role on this team as a bully scorer. The criticism comes from us dumping guys for a playoff push, when we weren't really at that point on the rebuild timeline.

I'm not saying he's bad. But the media acts like we unloaded a superstar for nothing. He's a role player, and one that is playing the same caliber of basketball he was here, at best.

I'll let go of a role player to roll the dice in free agency. The long shot of landing a superstar in free agency or via trade has always been our only real path to being a contender based on our slot in each draft.

He was traded to clear cap space, we didn't lure anyone. It doesn't mean we made the wrong move. It was the right play considering our circumstances.

[Xatticus]

I'm not sure where you've been or what media source prompted reigniting a top that has been debated exhaustively, but this is a curious time to try to defend it. It was difficult enough to defend the trade when it happened. Given Harris' role in Detroit's ascent, coupled with Orlando's struggles, I think your position is untenable. I mean, we used that money to sign Green. We need to let this one go and move on.

[407Junkie]

I didn't like Harris' fit on this team and wanted him gone but giving him away for nothing and cap space was stupid. You always try to get valuable pieces back when dealing talent not some damn cap space. Another silly move by the lost gm.

[erod009]

Tobias Harris is basically the same player he was in Orlando, with worse rebounding, and we suddenly traded an allegedly budding superstar for nothing.

At 24 years old, and another year of looking exactly the same....it appears the only thing we traded was a high end role player.

But my how the media perception of him has changed.

He's playing a new system with different teamates, it takes time, small sample size.... lol

[AshBlackstone]

I'm not sure where you've been or what media source prompted reigniting a top that has been debated exhaustively, but this is a curious time to try to defend it. It was difficult enough to defend the trade when it happened. Given Harris' role in Detroit's ascent, coupled with Orlando's struggles, I think your position is untenable. I mean, we used that money to sign Green. We need to let this one go and move on.

What ascent? They're a .500 basketball team, and they are basically fighting for the 8th seed. That's who they are, and they're at their ceiling. Orlando is looking to take the opposite approach of the Detroit Pistons, and go for broke.

My position is the only one that's right. Orlando wasn't winning with Harris, because he's a glorified role player. Orlando didn't land a player with real star potential in the draft, not because of bad drafting, but because they had unfortunate draft positioning.

That means, the only chance we had to improve is acquiring a star via trade or free agency. We clearly struck out on acquiring a star via trade, so our only remaining hope was free agency. So we traded Harris for cap space.

It wasn't one of many options, it was the only course of action we could take. We are clearly not looking to be a middling playoff team. We are looking to go all or nothing. Which is the approach every franchise should be taking. Any other approach is wrong, and a detriment to what your ultimate goal is....winning a championship.

We dealt Harris for cap space as we should have, it didn't work out, but Hennigan played the hand he was dealt correctly. If he's in that position 100 more times, he should play it the exact same way every time.

[AshBlackstone]

Tobias Harris is basically the same player he was in Orlando, with worse rebounding, and we suddenly traded an allegedly budding superstar for nothing.

At 24 years old, and another year of looking exactly the same....it appears the only thing we traded was a high end role player.

But my how the media perception of him has changed.

He's playing a new system with different teamates, it takes time, small sample size.... lol

He's played 35 games with Detroit now, and had an entire offseason to workout with them. Ibaka has played 8 games in Orlando, and was traded mid-offseason.

You're making an apples to oranges comparison.

[PennytoShaq]

People say we used the money to sign Green. That's a short term truth only. Green expires at the end of the year and is clearly not a long term pice of this team.

We traded Harris for cap flexibility because we did not forsee him as a core member of the team. It's been explained already why by guys who were in the locker room after games (Adamos for one), but many still choose to not accept facts and instead continue to twist words to make things seem gloomy.

Cap space and flexibility is never gloomy, even if the team we currently have is not performing well. Gloomy is having this roster and not being able to do anything about it for years.

[Jameerthefear]

People say we used the money to sign Green. That's a short term truth only. Green expires at the end of the year and is clearly not a long term pice of this team.

We traded Harris for cap flexibility because we did not forsee him as a core member of the team. It's been explained already why by guys who were in the locker room after games (Adamos for one), but many still choose to not accept facts and instead continue to twist words to make things seem gloomy.

Cap space and flexibility is never gloomy, even if the team we currently have is not performing well. Gloomy is having this roster and not being able to do anything about it for years.

That's not the point. The fact of the matter is we got nothing for Tobias. Yes, we have capspace, but so does pretty much everyone else. We got fleeced in that deal, I said it the day it happened and I'll say it now. No way in hell should we not have gotten AT least a first rounder

[Xatticus]

I'm not sure where you've been or what media source prompted reigniting a top that has been debated exhaustively, but this is a curious time to try to defend it. It was difficult enough to defend the trade when it happened. Given Harris' role in Detroit's ascent, coupled with Orlando's struggles, I think your position is untenable. I mean, we used that money to sign Green. We need to let this one go and move on.

What ascent? They're a .500 basketball team, and they are basically fighting for the 8th seed. That's who they are, and they're at their ceiling. Orlando is looking to take the opposite approach of the Detroit Pistons, and go for broke.

My position is the only one that's right. Orlando wasn't winning with Harris, because he's a glorified role player. Orlando didn't land a player with real star potential in the draft, not because of bad drafting, but because they had unfortunate draft positioning.

That means, the only chance we had to improve is acquiring a star via trade or free agency. We clearly struck out on acquiring a star via trade, so our only remaining hope was free agency. So we traded Harris for cap space.

It wasn't one of many options, it was the only course of action we could take. We are clearly not looking to be a middling playoff team. We are looking to go all or nothing. Which is the approach every franchise should be taking. Any other approach is wrong, and a detriment to what your ultimate goal is....winning a championship.

We dealt Harris for cap space as we should have, it didn't work out, but Hennigan played the hand he was dealt correctly. If he's in that position 100 more times, he should play it the exact same way every time.

And yet this team is currently desperate for what Harris brings at the offensive end. Detroit was .500 and on the outside of the playoffs at the time of the trade. They went 17-11 after the trade to qualify. That's marked improvement.

Hennigan built his hand. If Harris wasn't worth the contract and needed to be moved, he never should've given him the contract.

This specific topic has been discussed ad nauseam.

[PennytoShaq]

People say we used the money to sign Green. That's a short term truth only. Green expires at the end of the year and is clearly not a long term pice of this team.

We traded Harris for cap flexibility because we did not forsee him as a core member of the team. It's been explained already why by guys who were in the locker room after games (Adamos for one), but many still choose to not accept facts and instead continue to twist words to make things seem gloomy.

Cap space and flexibility is never gloomy, even if the team we currently have is not performing well. Gloomy is having this roster and not being able to do anything about it for years.

That's not the point. The fact of the matter is we got nothing for Tobias. Yes, we have capspace, but so does pretty much everyone else. We got fleeced in that deal, I said it the day it happened and I'll say it now. No way in hell should we not have gotten AT least a first rounder

By "pretty much everyone else", I guess you mean 10 -12 teams with varying amounts?

http://basketball.realgm.com/analysis/243084/The-Maximum-Available-2017-Cap-Space-For-All-30-NBA-Teams-Version-10

Due to the Tobias trade, the Magic will have 24million in space with the potential to have 43 million depending on how they move forward on existing deals.

[BadMofoPimp]

Are you ignoring the fact that he was pretty good when he was here? No one thought he was a bad player, just no real role on this team as a bully scorer. The criticism comes from us dumping guys for a playoff push, when we weren't really at that point on the rebuild timeline.

I'm not saying he's bad. But the media acts like we unloaded a superstar for nothing. He's a role player, and one that is playing the same caliber of basketball he was here, at best.

I'll let go of a role player to roll the dice in free agency. The long shot of landing a superstar in free agency or via trade has always been our only real path to being a contender based on our slot in each draft.

He was traded to clear cap space, we didn't lure anyone. It doesn't mean we made the wrong move. It was the right play considering our circumstances.

Did the media use the words "Star" or "Superstar"?

[MagicFan32]

Tobias Harris is basically the same player he was in Orlando, with worse rebounding, and we suddenly traded an allegedly budding superstar for nothing.

At 24 years old, and another year of looking exactly the same....it appears the only thing we traded was a high end role player.

But my how the media perception of him has changed.

Yeah the magic really couldn't use a player who can get his own shot could they

[Xatticus]

Tobias Harris is basically the same player he was in Orlando, with worse rebounding, and we suddenly traded an allegedly budding superstar for nothing.

At 24 years old, and another year of looking exactly the same....it appears the only thing we traded was a high end role player.

But my how the media perception of him has changed.

Yeah the magic really couldn't use a player who can get his own shot could they

I think Payton is that guy, but we don't actually want him to take that shot unless he is within five feet of the basket.

[Skin]

Tobias Harris is basically the same player he was in Orlando, with worse rebounding, and we suddenly traded an allegedly budding superstar for nothing.

At 24 years old, and another year of looking exactly the same....it appears the only thing we traded was a high end role player.

But my how the media perception of him has changed.

Well they tried to tell us that Hillary would win in a landslide too.... so...

[OrlandO]

He got some hype due to a hot start, but has cooled off recently... appears to be settling back to his usual scoring numbers. We did basically give him up for nothing and I think it's clear at this point we could have used him more than jeff green. I'm more interested in seeing other guys step up and perform as they're expected than worry about Harris being Harris in detroit though. Media downplayed the magic even when we had dwight, so it's not too surprising they're taking a crap on us now.

[Def Swami]

Regardless of how you perceive Harris, you can't justify that trade in any way. The Magic ditched a young, productive starter on a playoff team who can score the ball for essentially nothing in return. The Magic were never in a position to just cut losses on an asset with that much value, and for a team deprived of talent, scoring especially, it made no sense to just get rid of a player who could get buckets at a more efficient clip than most of the other wings on the team. Harris on his contract was and is a far more valuable commodity than the cap space we acquired. I wish we still had that trade chip in our back pocket still smh.

I accept that the national media is always going to underplay the Magic. But to be fair, the Magic have given them very few reasons not to over the last few years and especially this season so far.

[Def Swami]

I'm not sure where you've been or what media source prompted reigniting a top that has been debated exhaustively, but this is a curious time to try to defend it. It was difficult enough to defend the trade when it happened. Given Harris' role in Detroit's ascent, coupled with Orlando's struggles, I think your position is untenable. I mean, we used that money to sign Green. We need to let this one go and move on.

What ascent? They're a .500 basketball team, and they are basically fighting for the 8th seed. That's who they are, and they're at their ceiling. Orlando is looking to take the opposite approach of the Detroit Pistons, and go for broke.

My position is the only one that's right. Orlando wasn't winning with Harris, because he's a glorified role player. Orlando didn't land a player with real star potential in the draft, not because of bad drafting, but because they had unfortunate draft positioning.

That means, the only chance we had to improve is acquiring a star via trade or free agency. We clearly struck out on acquiring a star via trade, so our only remaining hope was free agency. So we traded Harris for cap space.

It wasn't one of many options, it was the only course of action we could take. We are clearly not looking to be a middling playoff team. We are looking to go all or nothing. Which is the approach every franchise should be taking. Any other approach is wrong, and a detriment to what your ultimate goal is....winning a championship.

We dealt Harris for cap space as we should have, it didn't work out, but Hennigan played the hand he was dealt correctly. If he's in that position 100 more times, he should play it the exact same way every time.

This is where we differ and I believe the approach was severely wrong. I don't doubt that the strategy was to clear the cap space to make a run at a star free agent this summer. But, that was a dumb, poorly guided decision. There are so few free star agents available every year and the demand is so high. The Magic, a team who peaked at 35 wins last year and have not seen the playoffs in 4 years, has seen 4 coaches over the last 20 or so months, plays in a small market, and with NO all-stars or all-star potential in sight, was never going to be a free agent destination for an impact player. They should have known that (Hennigan is a smart guy and he sure knew it, but went along with it to save his job) and they struck out in free agency. The cap space is not as valuable since so many teams have it. There are teams in the league who are extending young players on their team (Blazers, Thunder, etc.) not because they're overly committed to every single one of those players, but because they know they're more valuable to them as trade assets under contract that could potentially be used in a big deal if the opportunity arises. The Magic squandered that asset.

If they still had Tobias Harris, that would have been another valuable trade asset that could have been used in potential trades. I'll use the Kings in this hypothetical example. If any one is actually questioning his real value, the Sacramento Kings threw a max contract at him the same year we re-signed him. If a guy like Demarcus Cousins demanded a trade in February, we could have thrown Harris in a package for Cousins, and we already know that the Kings valued a player like Harris. But, now we're deprived of that asset.

I agree that this team lacks stars. Tobias Harris is far from a star player. But he could have served a vital role on our current team and still be used as a trade asset to acquire a star down the road.

[JAY DASH]

I think we would all be ok with Tobias and Aaron at the 3 and 4 as opposed to having Aaron and Serge at the 3 and 4 right now. Ask yourself what would we lose in that scenario. Of course it's too late for that but if we asked SVG to trade us Tobias for Serge straight up he'd laugh in our faces. Maybe we should try though because "the old Serge" would fit in great with the Pistons lol.