OT: The next President of the United States: ★★★ Donald Trump ★★★

[TheSuzerain]

Global warming is a fundamental consequence of the third law of thermodynamics. It is essentially impossible for global warming to not occur over the long run. We can only affect the rate at which it happens. To be fair whatever rate we choose is somewhat arbitrary.

I'm confused by this.

That's because it's uninformed gibberish.

[musiqsoulchild]

What is funny is that Romney lost with that percentage. If you look at the numbers, Trump actually did better with minorities than Romney. Beyond that, the candidate quality between 2012 and 2016 for the democrats was also "seismic". Democrats don't want to hear this but apparently Hillary was driving away people even faster than Trump was.

Democrats have their heads in the sand on the racism thing. That's all they want to see. This election had a race based component, but that isn't what flipped it. As I have been saying, what flipped this election was a number of democratic strongholds that strongly went for Obama (meaning they aren't racist) switching to go for Trump. It was largely economic based.

Instead of having a discussion about the real why's and policy directions, we have this constant discussion about racism that had virtually nothing to do with the outcome of the election.

The policy direction that Trump is promising is inherently anti-immigrant and anti-minority.

Systemic racism is also racism.

OK, let's discuss his general policy discussions.

Immigration: He is clearly against illegal immigrants. He hasn't outlined much of a policy at all for legal immigrants. Illegal immigration creates a supply of cheap labor which suppresses wages for low skilled workers. Given that in many cases these are also minorities, this is not inherently racist. All of that being said, immigration on its whole is beneficial to the greater economy. Personally, I have a huge issue with ILLEGAL immigration on two fronts:
- It creates a second class group of people without the full rights and benefits of being a citizen who can be exploited.
- When presidents pick and choose which laws they enforce, then they become dictators. Its a really slippery slope.

Trade reform: The intent is to get more jobs for poor and middle class people who again are minorities. Not racist. Beneficial to the greater economy? Interesting debate.

Banning muslims: An immigrant from Afghanistan is far more likely to carry out a domestic terror attack than one from, say, Denmark. With that said, this policy is inherently racist as it is using statistics to paint an entire ethnic group. Beyond that, immigrants from Afghanistan are still pretty unlikely to carry out an attack.

Infrastructure spending: Not racist. Technically disproportionately benefits poor and middle class. Again, actually helps minorities more than white people statistically. Is it worth the additional debt though?

Repeal and replace obamacare: This hurts the working poor getting heavily subsidized health care from the government. Helps small business owners. A lot depends on what the "replace" is. Given the statistical distribution of minorities, this likely is not pro-minority.

Global isolationism: Not racist. Again, would technically free up money used for defense for domestic programs which disproportionately benefit minorities. Would this really be a good idea though?

I'm sure I am missing something. With that said, Trump's policies overall seem to benefit poor african americans more than anyone. . . . if they work. A lot of these things are aimed at helping poor and middle class people get jobs. With that said, if implemented poorly this could send the whole world economy in the toilet.

I just wish we could have a little deeper conversation about this than shutting down every discussion by shouting "racism".

As a side note, the biggest issue here is that Trump is blatantly anti-non American. He isn't trying to hide that. He is putting america and americans first and if he is successful, non americans will not benefit. A lot of the global angst is based around that. Not ever really discussed but important is just how much areas like Western Europe, Australia, Canada, etc. benefit from the global economic system that the US subsidizes. Trump is threatening to take those subsidies away.

Trumps trade ideas and global isolationism pave the path for :

Step 1: Create decent jobs for otherwise poor minorities
Step 2: Make them and their families dependent on such jobs while inflationary costs rise
Step 3: Such families typically live in zipcodes that are already ordained to have below average schools, hospitals and public services
Step 4: Detroit redux

We are thinking about the now. If we think about the future, isolationism and creating a slew of meager paying jobs is going to perpetuate a permanent under-class that will predominantly comprise minority groups.

The way this has been countered in the past is that immigrants come into the country with a better educational foundation and a much more rigorous financial discipline. And they invigorate and create upward mobility.

But Trump is no fan of immigration either.

[Rerisen]

End result:
Rich guy nets $6
Hillary nets $2
Middle class guy loses $10 while getting $2 in government benefits

I would rather have the middle class guy just keep his $10. Simplistic example but the real world has so many money flows a lot of people miss how the mechanisms of income inequality work. I wish we could have these type of discussions instead of the stupid and simplistic "racism" comments that seem to dominate today.

I think people have a hard time understanding that voters will weigh different interests depending on their unique situation. For the guy that really needs that $10 back or is worried about his economic future, that of his children, or people he knows, these factors will lead them to vote one way. While someone that doesn't need that $10 so much, and also doesn't really care about the first guy, might decide more abstract goals like a higher public discourse (re offensive comments) is the most important interest to them and vote another way. Someone looking for a job may vote one way, while someone who doesn't even have prospects at all will vote another.

I'm not sure if the biggest divisions in the country haven't become class based. But where the parties represent within these classes changed around this election vs the 60s-90s.

Anyhow, your comments in this thread are a bolt of rationality and common sense. Unfortunately, I don't think the atmosphere is at a place where such level discussion is going to win out over people shouting past each other.

[The 6ft Hurdle]

Someone earlier in this thread had asked that this be closed. I must say, I agree with him/her. The things I'm reading in this thread, from both sides of the fence, do nothing but make me sad. We're so rooted in our own way of thinking that anyone who thinks differently is instantly slapped with some sort of label - regardless of the merit of their views.

This nation was (and has been) going downhill long before Trump or Clinton threw their hats in the ring. Calling whole swaths of people derogatory names because of the extreme outliers is counter-productive and just sad.

I respectfully request that this thread be closed. I understand the need to vent and to get feelings out there. What I'm seeing here is just more of the same posturing by both sides of an equally corrupt and broken system.

Let's just talk basketball.

Well, I think the discussion thus far has been good for the most part --- probably a lot better and more meaningful to me than newspaper, local news TV comment sections, social media, even Reddit. Mostly because I see this is as a community, one that I keep coming back to, even when I'm less than thrilled about the actual Chicago Bulls, hell the entire NBA. So this discussion is actually fun for me.

I must say that I share your concern not just on this board but of the general discourse, where we act like if someone else support something different, they are of a different species that we must fight against at all costs and never be wrong or at least admit error --- and I myself am guilty of thinking that way, especially this past election night.

However, I think...let's talk it out, bruh.

[Susan]

Lol ill buy my "rope" if you buy a one way plane ticket to ummm i think Iraq would be a Fantastic place for you "like minded" fokes to set up shop.

Hey you all would be doing us a favor actually,we wouldn't have to fight isis then,you all could explain and Express your feelings,and demand your gay rights in such a way that would make their frecking heads explode and save us our bombs.

Yeap your right Turmp did have it wrong.we dont need to bomb the **** out of them,we will just send them YOU and your buddies.maybe you guys can emasculate them to the point where we just need to tell the isis fighters they have a big fat ass and they run to their caves and cry about their feelings insteed of blowing everything to ****.

I hope you become less filled with hate following this election.

[Talclipse]

Lol ill buy my "rope" if you buy a one way plane ticket to ummm i think Iraq would be a Fantastic place for you "like minded" fokes to set up shop.

Hey you all would be doing us a favor actually,we wouldn't have to fight isis then,you all could explain and Express your feelings,and demand your gay rights in such a way that would make their frecking heads explode and save us our bombs.

Yeap your right Turmp did have it wrong.we dont need to bomb the **** out of them,we will just send them YOU and your buddies.maybe you guys can emasculate them to the point where we just need to tell the isis fighters they have a big fat ass and they run to their caves and cry about their feelings insteed of blowing everything to ****.

So not going to answer any of the questions I asked then?

Im on mobile and all of the quotes become a mess when i try to reply to them so i just made a general statement hehe.

As for what you said on abortion with the father daughter thing and the rapists blah blah.you guys always use those,yet one evil can NOT wash away another.

Im sure that the two of us live in completely different worlds and have different believes.for me i believe our population has falling so far from any type of moral standard that issues of daddy daughter babys,and rapes have become a epidemic that either way we go now days we are screwed.

At the end of the day,in that moment right as they are tearing that child literally apart does it really matter how it got there?? Please please stop and just picture that moment and set aside all of your views for just a second and look at it for what it is.

That child didn't ask to be there,they had no hand in becoming what they are,yet it is being punished for others actions.

I understand lots of **** things happen to women at times,those are the minority.most abortions are done because of a teen mom that dont wanna look bad to mom and dad,after a crazy night at a party,because the boy friend left,because of school,to get back at the man and a million of other reasons.

And all of it,every single one is the death of a child that had ZERO to do with the action that got them there.

Its not right.no sin can wash away another sin..and our government should in NO WAY be apart of it.if you choose to make that decision,then it is between you,the doctor,and God.just do not bring those of us that dont support it into the fold by forcing it to be allowed under our lands law,or use our tax dollars to pay for it.

[musiqsoulchild]

End result:
Rich guy nets $6
Hillary nets $2
Middle class guy loses $10 while getting $2 in government benefits

I would rather have the middle class guy just keep his $10. Simplistic example but the real world has so many money flows a lot of people miss how the mechanisms of income inequality work. I wish we could have these type of discussions instead of the stupid and simplistic "racism" comments that seem to dominate today.

I think people have a hard time understanding that voters will weigh different interests depending on their unique situation. For the guy that really needs that $10 back or is worried about his economic future, that of his children, or people he knows, these factors will lead them to vote one way. While someone that doesn't need that $10 so much, and also doesn't really care about the first guy, might decide more abstract goals like a higher public discourse (re offensive comments) is the most important interest to them and vote another way. Someone looking for a job may vote one way, while someone who doesn't even have prospects at all will vote another.

I'm not sure if the biggest divisions in the country haven't become class based. But where the parties represent within these classes changed around this election vs the 60s-90s.

Anyhow, your comments in this thread are a bolt of rationality and common sense. Unfortunately, I don't think the atmosphere is at a place where such level discussion is going to win out over people shouting past each other.

The example that Fish gave encapsulates the issue really well.

Taxation brings in money to the government that can (hopefully) be channeled appropriately with more going towards security nets for the underprivileged and the underserved.

The philosophical divide of who can manage that money better - wether it should be returned to the middle class guy or used by the government is the real issue.

The poor and the needy cannot exist on the charity of many good people. You need something more tangible than that for Rice and Beans and a $3 bus ride to the minimum wage job.

[League Circles]

I'm confused by this.

at the risk of exposing my logic as imperfect I will casually explained it here. The third law of thermodynamics among other things that are inherently related basically says that in a closed system, irreversible actions increase entropy of the system. All real actions are irreversible. All things being equal, higher entropy results in higher temperature. Now there is no such thing as a truly closed system and the Earth is not a closed system. However heat transfer can only occur to or from the Earth by radiation as opposed to by convection or conduction which are the other two types of heat transfer. Now we don't really have a way of knowing whether the universe is radiating heat to or away from us at a net level. In theory it could also be neutral. Of those three possibilities that there is neutral net radiation to and from the earth, that there is net radiation away from the earth, and if there is net radiation towards the Earth global warming would occur in two of the three. If we happen to be lucky enough that the way that the universe is arranged we have net heat transferred away from the Earth, then we probably don't have to worry about global warming and our real, irreversible actions on Earth are heating up the Earth in a way that we desperately need to avoid becoming too cold. However in the neutral situation or the situation where we have net radiation towards the Earth then our real, irreversible actions cause global warming. I choose to play it safe and assume that we are not in the lucky best case scenario. I don't know of any way that this could ever be measured.

Oh I see. FWIW this is then 2nd law.

Actually I forgot that I've had some revised ideas on this.

1. We are definitely radiating heat towards all bodies in the universe that are at lower temps than earth
2. we are definitely absorbing radiation from all bodies in the universe that are at higher temps than earth
3. the only factor in this that we can control at all is earth's temperature, but the net heat transfer relies on the temp and position of every body in the universe

So despite what I said before, part of me wonders in internal heat generation (increased heat within the earth's system boundary due largely to human behavior) matters much at all. Maybe the universal bodies that we can't control will essentially always damper our temp changes - we create more heat, we just radiate more away - we create less heat, the universe radiates more to us. This is very interesting to me and I have some education it in but it's above my level of knowledge.

FWIW, I am very concerned about the environment, but much more concerned with water quality and biological balance than with global warming.

[League Circles]

Global warming is a fundamental consequence of the third law of thermodynamics. It is essentially impossible for global warming to not occur over the long run. We can only affect the rate at which it happens. To be fair whatever rate we choose is somewhat arbitrary.

I'm confused by this.

That's because it's uninformed gibberish.

What's uninformed about it? How am I wrong? Do you even know what I'm saying? Have you studied thermodynamics?

[Dr Spaceman]

Global warming is a fundamental consequence of the third law of thermodynamics. It is essentially impossible for global warming to not occur over the long run. We can only affect the rate at which it happens. To be fair whatever rate we choose is somewhat arbitrary.

I'm confused by this.

at the risk of exposing my logic as imperfect I will casually explained it here. The third law of thermodynamics among other things that are inherently related basically says that in a closed system, irreversible actions increase entropy of the system. All real actions are irreversible. All things being equal, higher entropy results in higher temperature. Now there is no such thing as a truly closed system and the Earth is not a closed system. However heat transfer can only occur to or from the Earth by radiation as opposed to by convection or conduction which are the other two types of heat transfer. Now we don't really have a way of knowing whether the universe is radiating heat to or away from us at a net level. In theory it could also be neutral. Of those three possibilities that there is neutral net radiation to and from the earth, that there is net radiation away from the earth, and if there is net radiation towards the Earth global warming would occur in two of the three. If we happen to be lucky enough that the way that the universe is arranged we have net heat transferred away from the Earth, then we probably don't have to worry about global warming and our real, irreversible actions on Earth are heating up the Earth in a way that we desperately need to avoid becoming too cold. However in the neutral situation or the situation where we have net radiation towards the Earth then our real, irreversible actions cause global warming. I choose to play it safe and assume that we are not in the lucky best case scenario. I don't know of any way that this could ever be measured.

Alright, but if this were true: the Earth's temperature would have been increasing at a linear rate since its creation. Data shows this is obviously not the case.

A little more wordily: the inputs and outputs of heat to the earth can be assumed to be in equilibrium. If the sun were heating up, the Earth would be heating up at a supremely faster rate than it is now. If it were getting colder, our temp would be declining at a again faster rate. The Universe temperature is marginally above 0, on average, and neither the sun or Earth are ever making a dent in that.

So we're basically left wth the Earth: what's changing? It can't be more heat input, and it can't be the universe itself getting warmer, so it's got to be the Earth losing less heat. In other words, it's becoming more insulated. The data doesn't agree with really any thermodynamic explanation because the rate of change isn't linear. Something artificial is getting in the way.

[musiqsoulchild]

Also, more than racism this was the USA excersising it's strong Judaeo-Christian and Catholic roots.

This is also in many ways race- baiting. Which Trump executed beautifully. Islam was basically on trial in this election.

Roe v Wade, Gay marriage, separation of Church and State ---- these are all on the line.

[Dr Spaceman]

at the risk of exposing my logic as imperfect I will casually explained it here. The third law of thermodynamics among other things that are inherently related basically says that in a closed system, irreversible actions increase entropy of the system. All real actions are irreversible. All things being equal, higher entropy results in higher temperature. Now there is no such thing as a truly closed system and the Earth is not a closed system. However heat transfer can only occur to or from the Earth by radiation as opposed to by convection or conduction which are the other two types of heat transfer. Now we don't really have a way of knowing whether the universe is radiating heat to or away from us at a net level. In theory it could also be neutral. Of those three possibilities that there is neutral net radiation to and from the earth, that there is net radiation away from the earth, and if there is net radiation towards the Earth global warming would occur in two of the three. If we happen to be lucky enough that the way that the universe is arranged we have net heat transferred away from the Earth, then we probably don't have to worry about global warming and our real, irreversible actions on Earth are heating up the Earth in a way that we desperately need to avoid becoming too cold. However in the neutral situation or the situation where we have net radiation towards the Earth then our real, irreversible actions cause global warming. I choose to play it safe and assume that we are not in the lucky best case scenario. I don't know of any way that this could ever be measured.

Oh I see. FWIW this is then 2nd law.

Actually I forgot that I've had some revised ideas on this.

1. We are definitely radiating heat towards all bodies in the universe that are at lower temps than earth
2. we are definitely absorbing radiation from all bodies in the universe that are at higher temps than earth
3. the only factor in this that we can control at all is earth's temperature, but the net heat transfer relies on the temp and position of every body in the universe

So despite what I said before, part of me wonders in internal heat generation (increased heat within the earth's system boundary due largely to human behavior) matters much at all. Maybe the universal bodies that we can't control will essentially always damper our temp changes - we create more heat, we just radiate more away - we create less heat, the universe radiates more to us. This is very interesting to me and I have some education it in but it's above my level of knowledge.

FWIW, I am very concerned about the environment, but much more concerned with water quality and biological balance than with global warming.

Okay, I see where the confusion is. You're assuming it's possible for the universe to warm the Earth, in a basic sense, it's absolutely not. The universe is very very very cold, close to absolute 0. That's why planets farther from the sun are much colder.

[The 6ft Hurdle]

End result:
Rich guy nets $6
Hillary nets $2
Middle class guy loses $10 while getting $2 in government benefits

I would rather have the middle class guy just keep his $10. Simplistic example but the real world has so many money flows a lot of people miss how the mechanisms of income inequality work. I wish we could have these type of discussions instead of the stupid and simplistic "racism" comments that seem to dominate today.

I think people have a hard time understanding that voters will weigh different interests depending on their unique situation. For the guy that really needs that $10 back or is worried about his economic future, that of his children, or people he knows, these factors will lead them to vote one way. While someone that doesn't need that $10 so much, and also doesn't really care about the first guy, might decide more abstract goals like a higher public discourse (re offensive comments) is the most important interest to them and vote another way. Someone looking for a job may vote one way, while someone who doesn't even have prospects at all will vote another.

I'm not sure if the biggest divisions in the country haven't become class based. But where the parties represent within these classes changed around this election vs the 60s-90s.

Anyhow, your comments in this thread are a bolt of rationality and common sense. Unfortunately, I don't think the atmosphere is at a place where such level discussion is going to win out over people shouting past each other.

I agree that people have a hard time understanding different voter mindsets, just like you think people's displeasure is over "offensive comments" and their big issue is an abstraction like "higher public discourse."

[Rerisen]

The example that Fish gave encapsulates the issue really well.

Taxation brings in money to the government that can (hopefully) be channeled appropriately with more going towards security nets for the underprivileged and the underserved.

The philosophical divide of who can manage that money better - wether it should be returned to the middle class guy or used by the government is the real issue.

The poor and the needy cannot exist on the charity of many good people. You need something more tangible than that for Rice and Beans and a $3 bus ride to the minimum wage job.

These are of course the everlasting philosophies that have driven elections probably since the industrial age. How big a social safety net, free market vs central planning, etc. Short of a candidate being thrown in jail, they won't overurle that many will vote along these beliefs the same every time, while maybe only 20 to 30% in the middle can be swayed by their unique situation or personality of the candidate. I think the 24 hour news cycle and internet has somewhat tricked people into thinking this election was somehow different and only about choosing (the least worst) individual character, because it is the lowest easiest common denominator to discuss, rather than more weighty but still highly relevant philosophy differences.

[Gandalf]

On abortion..who in their right minds think they have a !!!!!!RIGHT!!!!!!! to end ANYONES life simply because of a inconvenience that will be placed on them??? IF YOU DONT WANT TO BE PREGNANT STOP SPEADING YOUR LEGS!!! You GAVE UP your RIGHT to do with your body as you want when YOU HAD SEX!!!then you ask the government (my tax dollars)to PAY to murder that child because you dont want the responsibility of being a parent???

Do you believe a woman who has been raped and becomes pregnant should be forced to carry her rapists' child?

Do you believe a 13-year-old girl who has been impregnated by her father should be forced to have that baby?

Do you believe a woman whose life is threatened by a pregnancy should be legally forced to have the baby even if it costs her her life?

If YOU want to murder a child that YOU created then YOU need to do so on you're OWN DIME NOT MINE!!!

You do realize that not a dime of taxpayer money funds abortions at Planned Parenthood, right?

"Abortions represent 3 percent of total services provided by Planned Parenthood, and roughly 10 percent of its clients received an abortion. The group does receive federal funding, but the money cannot be used for abortions by law. "

http://www.factcheck.org/2011/04/planned-parenthood/

So celebrate! Your dimes are safe.

To those that are against Trump i say this,dont forget that he didn't just pop into the white house,WE THE PEOPLE put him in there..the majority of us are sick of the corrupt system,the gay rights,the abortion,the war on Christianity, constantly trying to take our guns,all of the politically correct garbage.This is OUR TIME for change and to lead this country in a different direction..GO TRUMP!!!!!

Oo and BTW you can label me whatever the hell you want.the time of your hateful lables making a hill of beans are through..to hell with political correctness,GO FREEDOM OF SPEACH AND OPINION!!!

Also If this message offended or hurt anyones little feelings please feel free to print it out and shove it right up your liberal brainwashed globalist undercarriage...

Just wanted to say thank you for being you. Whenever I begin to doubt the validity of my opinions I can return to the above nugget of Trump-inspired wisdom and feel so much better about myself. Now hurry along to the hardware store. I'm sure you have some rope to buy.

Lol ill buy my "rope" if you buy a one way plane ticket to ummm i think Iraq would be a Fantastic place for you "like minded" fokes to set up shop.

Hey you all would be doing us a favor actually,we wouldn't have to fight isis then,you all could explain and Express your feelings,and demand your gay rights in such a way that would make their frecking heads explode and save us our bombs.

Yeap your right Turmp did have it wrong.we dont need to bomb the **** out of them,we will just send them YOU and your buddies.maybe you guys can emasculate them to the point where we just need to tell the isis fighters they have a big fat ass and they run to their caves and cry about their feelings insteed of blowing everything to ****.

Well, actually countries as Iraq, Saudi,etc would suit better people with similiar opinions like yours. No gay rights, stoning for being gay, religion in the government, let's not even talk about abortion...perfect. Just saying here, sending people with different opinion to Iraq is not really free speech huh.

Bulls basketball now, I think the discussion here is nearing its end.

[League Circles]

Alright, but if this were true: the Earth's temperature would have been increasing at a linear rate since its creation. Data shows this is obviously not the case.

A little more wordily: the inputs and outputs of heat to the earth can be assumed to be in equilibrium. If the sun were heating up, the Earth would be heating up at a supremely faster rate than it is now. If it were getting colder, our temp would be declining at a again faster rate. The Universe temperature is marginally above 0, on average, and neither the sun or Earth are ever making a dent in that.

So we're basically left wth the Earth: what's changing? It can't be more heat input, and it can't be the universe itself getting warmer, so it's got to be the Earth losing less heat. In other words, it's becoming more insulated. The data doesn't agree with really any thermodynamic explanation because the rate of change isn't linear. Something artificial is getting in the way.

Why would the bolded parts necessarily be true at all? I don't believe a universal assumption of equilibrium is at all consistent with what we can surmise about the universe, though I may be wrong. I'm definitely open to ideas.

Why can't the universe be getting warmer? Or colder? I have instincts and thoughts as to the answers to these questions but no confident position.

Nonetheless, I assume, for lack of better info, neutral input and output of heat exchange from earth. In which case, yes we are unavoidably causing global warming (as is every natural process on earth). All we can do is affect the rate of warming. And I support limiting that rate through worldwide policy and national policy.

[The 6ft Hurdle]

Also, more than racism this was the USA excersising it's strong Judaeo-Christian and Catholic roots.

This is also in many ways race- baiting. Which Trump executed beautifully. Islam was basically on trial in this election.

Roe v Wade, Gay marriage, separation of Church and State ---- these are all on the line.

And like I said earlier in the thread, in my very own family, most orthodox (conservative) Catholics I observe on Facebook who are pro-life began hating Trump and vowed Never Trump, but are now basking in the victory as if he's the candidate they wanted all along. It's bizarro-land.

[coldfish]

In summation, I can understand why you don't have the fears of a Trump presidency that I do but that's because you probably don't stand to lose much from it. You may agree or disagree with his policies but you likely won't lose a right or government provided protection that you rely on. However, there are others in this country who will LOSE rights in a way that has never truly happened in our history. And I'm not even talking about serious issues like tax reform, climate change, etc but just near basic rights people won't have.

OK, being brutally honest.

Illegal immigrants: Trump said that he is going to round them up. What that looks like is door to door searches with people being ripped out of their homes by force, transferred to internment camps before being permanently shipped to a 3rd world nation.

muslims: Trump has made it clear that he is going to have the federal government crawl up their rears. They can expect heavy monitoring with a quick trigger on criminal investigations. Basically living in a police state before being locked up or worse.

women: I have a young daughter. I wonder if when she gets to high school or college, someone will assault her using Trump's model as a reference.

That **** is awful. I think it was you that noted that any sliver of support for Trump is based around the idea that he was lying when he said this stuff. I *get* why people don't like him and are afraid of him. I don't get why people call all of his supporters racist because I *get* why *those* people support him too.

Because there are different levels of being complicit with what he does. Of course there are people who take their racism to the extreme but you cannot possibly say "I do not condone these actions yet I will vote for him". By voting for him, you are maybe not encouraging those actions but you certainly are condoning them.

When you vote for someone, you are condoning their actions. I didn't encourage Clintons email server use but after reviewing it, I did condone it because I did give her my vote.

Essentially, you don't get to choose what parts of a candidate you condone and which you don't; it's all or nothing when you cast a vote.

I just don't see it that way. I think its entirely possible for a person to look at a candidate and say: I disagree with this aspect of their policy or persona. I wish it wasn't that way and I hope that they either change or that aspect of their policy or persona is stopped by the other facets of government. However, other aspects of their policy or persona have more value or the other candidate has more negatives, therefore I will vote for them.

You really do get to choose what parts of a candidate you condone and which you don't. Quite frankly, I'm flabbergasted at this line of reasoning. We live in a two party system. The number of people who vote for a candidate they 100% agree with is extremely small.

This probably is the type of fundamental issue where there is no resolution or middle ground. With that said, at least I gained some insight into how the people referring to all Trump supporters as racists think.

[Talclipse]

Do you believe a woman who has been raped and becomes pregnant should be forced to carry her rapists' child?

Do you believe a 13-year-old girl who has been impregnated by her father should be forced to have that baby?

Do you believe a woman whose life is threatened by a pregnancy should be legally forced to have the baby even if it costs her her life?



You do realize that not a dime of taxpayer money funds abortions at Planned Parenthood, right?

"Abortions represent 3 percent of total services provided by Planned Parenthood, and roughly 10 percent of its clients received an abortion. The group does receive federal funding, but the money cannot be used for abortions by law. "

http://www.factcheck.org/2011/04/planned-parenthood/

So celebrate! Your dimes are safe.



Just wanted to say thank you for being you. Whenever I begin to doubt the validity of my opinions I can return to the above nugget of Trump-inspired wisdom and feel so much better about myself. Now hurry along to the hardware store. I'm sure you have some rope to buy.

Lol ill buy my "rope" if you buy a one way plane ticket to ummm i think Iraq would be a Fantastic place for you "like minded" fokes to set up shop.

Hey you all would be doing us a favor actually,we wouldn't have to fight isis then,you all could explain and Express your feelings,and demand your gay rights in such a way that would make their frecking heads explode and save us our bombs.

Yeap your right Turmp did have it wrong.we dont need to bomb the **** out of them,we will just send them YOU and your buddies.maybe you guys can emasculate them to the point where we just need to tell the isis fighters they have a big fat ass and they run to their caves and cry about their feelings insteed of blowing everything to ****.

Well, actually countries as Iraq, Saudi,etc would be better for people with similiar opinions like yours. No gay rights, stoning for being gay, religion in the government, let's not talk about abortion...perfect.

Bulls basketball now, I think the discussion here is nearing its end.

Actually this country was founded by people that have like minds as myself and Trump supporters.you guys are the anomalies that wish to take over,kinda how Al Qaeda and Isis want to take over...soooo yeah i said it you sick pricks are the terrorists in a land that doesn't want your views and are sick of hearing your belly acking.

[Rerisen]

I agree that people have a hard time understanding different voter mindsets, just like you think people's displeasure is over "offensive comments" and their big issue is an abstraction like "higher public discourse."

An abstract issue is as real a concept as something concrete like how much gets taken out of your taxes. I was not dismissing it as better or worse reason to decide, nor as illegitimate. Just something a bit more unknown in how it will manifest in ones life. To be clear I was talking about something not outlined by any specific policy.