Political Roundtable Part XI

[pineappleheadindc]

Trump. Supporters. Don't be deliberately obtuse, makes you look dumb.

Sorry Zonker.

You *do* know that I mostly agree w/you on political points, right?

[pineappleheadindc]

-- Almost half of eligible voters did not cast a vote in the election. That's just pathetic.

I think this issue is overstated. In swing states, voter participation is between 65-70%. In Minnesota, it was 74%. Total voter turnout is low because so many states are not competitive.

Some people simply don't follow politics much and don't feel qualified to pick a candidate. That is their right, and I consider it an honorable choice. Personally, I often leave blank the ballot questions on some local judges and councilmen if I haven't taken the time to research them. Would it be better for me to just guess based on the sound of their name or their party affiliation?

I guess we have to agree to disagree.

One of the recurring themes in the election on the Trump side is how all of the "insiders" had weilded secret power over the lives of the citizenry. That happens with a citizenry is disengaged.

I think the democracy would be better if *everyone* were engaged, that we all were invested in every candidate and decision -- even judges, county ordinances, etc -- involving the public sphere. Elected officials would be less apt to do fewer "insider" things with an engaged and responsive citizenry IMO.

[nate33]

-- Almost half of eligible voters did not cast a vote in the election. That's just pathetic.

I think this issue is overstated. In swing states, voter participation is between 65-70%. In Minnesota, it was 74%. Total voter turnout is low because so many states are not competitive.

Some people simply don't follow politics much and don't feel qualified to pick a candidate. That is their right, and I consider it an honorable choice. Personally, I often leave blank the ballot questions on some local judges and councilmen if I haven't taken the time to research them. Would it be better for me to just guess based on the sound of their name or their party affiliation?

I guess we have to agree to disagree.

One of the recurring themes in the election on the Trump side is how all of the "insiders" had weilded secret power over the lives of the citizenry. That happens with a citizenry is disengaged.

I think the democracy would be better if *everyone* were engaged, that we all were invested in every candidate and decision -- even judges, county ordinances, etc -- involving the public sphere. Elected officials would be less apt to do fewer "insider" things with an engaged and responsive citizenry IMO.

We don't necessarily disagree. I'd be happy if more people voted, so long as they took the time and researched the candidates first.

Where I have concerns is in initiatives that require voting, or when there are huge campaigns to encourage people to "get out and vote" rather than to encourage them to get informed first.

[pineappleheadindc]

I think this issue is overstated. In swing states, voter participation is between 65-70%. In Minnesota, it was 74%. Total voter turnout is low because so many states are not competitive.

Some people simply don't follow politics much and don't feel qualified to pick a candidate. That is their right, and I consider it an honorable choice. Personally, I often leave blank the ballot questions on some local judges and councilmen if I haven't taken the time to research them. Would it be better for me to just guess based on the sound of their name or their party affiliation?

I guess we have to agree to disagree.

One of the recurring themes in the election on the Trump side is how all of the "insiders" had weilded secret power over the lives of the citizenry. That happens with a citizenry is disengaged.

I think the democracy would be better if *everyone* were engaged, that we all were invested in every candidate and decision -- even judges, county ordinances, etc -- involving the public sphere. Elected officials would be less apt to do fewer "insider" things with an engaged and responsive citizenry IMO.

We don't necessarily disagree. I'd be happy if more people voted, so long as they took the time and researched the candidates first.

Where I have concerns is in initiatives that require voting, or when there are huge campaigns to encourage people to "get out and vote" rather than to encourage them to get informed first.

Actually then, we agree. I don't think there should be a requirement to vote. I guess my "blue skies" post was more about how I wish our country was. I'd like to see more *informed voting* as you do.

[tontoz]

-- Almost half of eligible voters did not cast a vote in the election. That's just pathetic.

I think this issue is overstated. In swing states, voter participation is between 65-70%. In Minnesota, it was 74%. Total voter turnout is low because so many states are not competitive.

Some people simply don't follow politics much and don't feel qualified to pick a candidate. That is their right, and I consider it an honorable choice. Personally, I often leave blank the ballot questions on some local judges and councilmen if I haven't taken the time to research them. Would it be better for me to just guess based on the sound of their name or their party affiliation?

Good point. I was in Tenn the week before the election. I didn't need a poll to tell me who would win there. I didn't see a Hillary sticker or sign all week.

[Illmatic12]

Well, no surprise private prison stocks are now booming! There will be oodles of undocumented immigrants to round up and throw in jail

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2016/11/10/the-private-prison-industry-was-crashing-until-donald-trumps-victory/

Oh and what do you know,

As Rudy Giuliani rails against Black Lives Matter, his law firm reaps tens of thousands of dollars lobbying Congress for the biggest operator of private prisons in America.
In January, the former law-and-order mayor left his longtime firm, Giuliani & Bracewell, and jumped to Greenberg Traurig, a major lobbyist law firm with dozens of deep pocket clients.

One client is a subsidiary of the Corrections Corporation of America, the Nashville-based for-profit firm that runs or manages 77 prisons housing 88,500 inmates across the U.S.

Giuliani’s law firm is currently fighting a law that would bar the government from hiring private contractors like CCA to run prisons

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/politics/rudy-giuliani-law-firm-paid-big-money-lobby-prisons-article-1.2707601


Can't wait until the Donald announces that he's filling his cabinet positions with great names such as Rudy Giuliani, Chris Christie, Ben Carson, Newt Gingrich.. and any number of pro-establishment neocon lobbyists! #MakeAmericaGreatAgain

[nate33]

-- Almost half of eligible voters did not cast a vote in the election. That's just pathetic.

I think this issue is overstated. In swing states, voter participation is between 65-70%. In Minnesota, it was 74%. Total voter turnout is low because so many states are not competitive.

Some people simply don't follow politics much and don't feel qualified to pick a candidate. That is their right, and I consider it an honorable choice. Personally, I often leave blank the ballot questions on some local judges and councilmen if I haven't taken the time to research them. Would it be better for me to just guess based on the sound of their name or their party affiliation?

Good point. I was in Tenn the week before the election. I didn't need a poll to tell me who would win there. I didn't see a Hillary sticker or sign all week.

For what it's worth, European nations like Germany, Italy, France and Finland have turnout rates in the 65-70 range according to Pew. So our turnout in swing states is about normal.

[Wizardspride]

Read on Twitter

[DCZards]

-- Romney outperformed Trump in terms of popular vote. Which means Obama 2012 outpolled Trump by a mile.
-- The story isn't that there was a flock of voters TO Trump because they like him/GOP message or voted against Clinton. For Trump underperformed Romey2012 by 1.5M votes.
-- The story is that the Democratic base did not come out for Clinton, who trailed Obama 2012 by almost 7M votes. African American voters didn't turn out and it cost Clinton.

Yes, the turnout of African American voters was down from 2012. But no one realistically expected AA to turn out in the historically high numbers that they did for Obama. Just wasn't going to happen.

But please don't blame black folks for Hillary Clinton losing this election. She lost because white women did not vote for her in the #s that they were expected to. #andstillwerise

[dckingsfan]

I have two last separate, long posts about related topics you touch on. They are

1. The Democratic party is, IMO, a dysfunctional sham and Barack Obama's hubris over the last eight years lost this election for Team Blue.

2. Trump voters who think they were against the "establishment" are ignorant and have been shammed.

Probably coming tonight.

Look forward to the post. I inherently think you are right on both points - although I haven't done any research on the issues.

[Kanyewest]

I think this issue is overstated. In swing states, voter participation is between 65-70%. In Minnesota, it was 74%. Total voter turnout is low because so many states are not competitive.

Some people simply don't follow politics much and don't feel qualified to pick a candidate. That is their right, and I consider it an honorable choice. Personally, I often leave blank the ballot questions on some local judges and councilmen if I haven't taken the time to research them. Would it be better for me to just guess based on the sound of their name or their party affiliation?

I guess we have to agree to disagree.

One of the recurring themes in the election on the Trump side is how all of the "insiders" had weilded secret power over the lives of the citizenry. That happens with a citizenry is disengaged.

I think the democracy would be better if *everyone* were engaged, that we all were invested in every candidate and decision -- even judges, county ordinances, etc -- involving the public sphere. Elected officials would be less apt to do fewer "insider" things with an engaged and responsive citizenry IMO.

We don't necessarily disagree. I'd be happy if more people voted, so long as they took the time and researched the candidates first.

Where I have concerns is in initiatives that require voting, or when there are huge campaigns to encourage people to "get out and vote" rather than to encourage them to get informed first.

True voters should be more informed. But requiring voters to vote in countries like Australia have seemed to have the desired effect that more citizens are more informed than those of other countries of their own politics. I think that people do not necessarily have to fill out a ballot: (ie have to choose between Trump and Clinton) but I believe more participation will make people more knowledgeable than they were before had they not performed their civic duty. I understand that voting participation is not a cure all but it is a step in the right direction that our citizen's have a responsibility- similar to countries where military participation or government service is mandatory

Policies to increase voting might be as simple as just changing election day to a Saturday or Sunday. It shouldn't be on a Tuesday anymore given that people no longer after to travel long distances after Church to vote.

[Induveca]

For those that watched the Project Veritas undercover videos that led to Scott Foval and Bob Creamer getting (supposedly) axed.

A related Soros organization is leading the "marches" around the country and busing people into cities. (Note the SMS message number and response).



Beyond this the signs being used for "Never Trump" are the exact same template that hung above Creamer's desk in the hidden videos. Same ones used by the Aaron Black character as well in Chicago.

I know people are angry, but being an angry puppet is quite different than an angry individual. Soros is a horrible person, I hope people look at his record as well.

[Kanyewest]

-- Romney outperformed Trump in terms of popular vote. Which means Obama 2012 outpolled Trump by a mile.
-- The story isn't that there was a flock of voters TO Trump because they like him/GOP message or voted against Clinton. For Trump underperformed Romey2012 by 1.5M votes.
-- The story is that the Democratic base did not come out for Clinton, who trailed Obama 2012 by almost 7M votes. African American voters didn't turn out and it cost Clinton.

Yes, the turnout of African American voters was down from 2012. But no one realistically expected AA to turn out in the historically high numbers that they did for Obama. Just wasn't going to happen.

But please don't blame black folks for Hillary Clinton losing this election. She lost because white women did not vote for her in the #s that they were expected to. #andstillwerise

Plenty of blame to go around for the Democrats. A weak candidate, the DNC, people who voted for Clinton because they thought she was more electable, a poor VP choice, lack of desperation/complacency from people like myself, a campaign strategy that spread itself too thin in unwinnable states like Georgia and Arizona, and lower turnout from all demographics other than rural whites.

[montestewart]

Spoiler:

For those that watched the Project Veritas undercover videos that led to Scott Foval and Bob Creamer getting (supposedly) axed.

A related Soros organization is leading the "marches" around the country and busing people into cities. (Note the SMS message number and response).

Beyond this the signs being used for "Never Trump" are the exact same template that hung above Creamer's desk in the hidden videos. Same ones used by the Aaron Black character as well in Chicago.

I know people are angry, but being an angry puppet is quite different than an angry individual. Soros is a horrible person, I hope people look at his record as well.

Without respect to the other arguments, I'll point out that black on yellow or yellow on black have long been desired colors for protest signs, for their visibility from a distance if nothing else.

Non-lefties use them too





Others who are harder to categorize also like them

[AFM]

Why won't jar jar die...

[montestewart]

Read on Twitter

With Trump, Giuliani, and Gingrich at the top, infidelity will continue to find bipartisan support as a very American activity

[FAH1223]

3 days in & so far Trump is cucking out on the Wall, Obamacare, Muslim ban & his transition team is filled with neocons and K Street lobbyists.

Way to Drain the Swamp!

Read on Twitter

Pence was one of few GOP governors who expanded Medicaid and Trump is on record advocating universal health care.

There is a real cleavage between the *stated* ideology of Trump-Pence and Paul Ryan.

[FAH1223]

Gotta love Bernie, he's all class

Watch on YouTube

[Induveca]

Love how CNN/MSM was 99% wrong on nearly *everything*, yet Clinton supporters are quoting their BS here as if it was gospel.

[AFM]

Wolf Blitzer is honestly a hack. "Say you would have won, Bernie, say it!!! We need the quote for our click bait headline!!!!!"