Season Speculation, Trade Ideas and Discussion

[Jdiddy701]

I think if Suns offered Tyson Chandler for WCS, Sacramento would accept. I just think it's a bad "family" move for the Suns. What do you guys think?


Sent from my iPhone using RealGM mobile app

[bwgood77]

I think if Suns offered Tyson Chandler for WCS, Sacramento would accept. I just think it's a bad "family" move for the Suns. What do you guys think?


Sent from my iPhone using RealGM mobile app

Don't want him.

Read on Twitter

[AtheJ415]

I think if Suns offered Tyson Chandler for WCS, Sacramento would accept. I just think it's a bad "family" move for the Suns. What do you guys think?


Sent from my iPhone using RealGM mobile app

Don't want him.

Read on Twitter

I actually do. Normally I'm all about the stats, and I agree his are awful, but his defensive ability is legitimate going back to Kentucky imo and the Kings overall are a tire fire. Plus with his DNP's, I imagine he doesn't get much playing time with the only good player on their team (Cousins). I think the potential there is good and he would be a good fit for our style. Tyson isn't a big sacrifice to me, but I do agree he has less value than when he was drafted because his play hasn't improved.

We have a weird direction to go as a team. I think we should keep Len because his upside per dollar will be worth it even though he will get a raw amount that is high, but is within means of comparable players. I think we need to address getting a 2nd center (with Len as one of the 2 centers) and PG (to replace Knight), and somewhere at a position other than the 2 and 3 we need to add a star or develop one. I'm more a proponent of playing the FA game than trading our young guys for someone. The 2 targets that seemed like potential fits were Hayward (Utah's salary situation is going to be a problem) and Cousins (they just aren't a good fit. I can't imagine the org likes Cousins at this point and he prob hates them behind closed doors), but with Warren now it would be tough to add Hayward unless we're going small with one at the 4. I look at the FA list a lot and I just don't see who fits the bill other than Cousins.

[Saberestar]

I am torn about WCS. I liked him before the draft, but in the NBA he has been awful.

I do not know if he can improve or if he is another bad selection from the Kings.

Fredette, Thomas Robinson and Stauskas has been bad all the time, even after being traded to another team.

[ImNotMcDiSwear]

I could see us doing a three-way with Knight to Sacto, Cauley-Stein to a third team, and ??? to us.

Boston, Houston, Indiana, New York, Portland?

[carey]

I could see us doing a three-way with Knight to Sacto, Cauley-Stein to a third team, and ??? to us.

Boston, Houston, Indiana, New York, Portland?

What? I'll take WCS for Knight straight up right now. Then we don't re-sign Len and use alllll that cap space to get one of the big FAs this Summer.

[bwgood77]

I could see us doing a three-way with Knight to Sacto, Cauley-Stein to a third team, and ??? to us.

Boston, Houston, Indiana, New York, Portland?

What? I'll take WCS for Knight straight up right now. Then we don't re-sign Len and use alllll that cap space to get one of the big FAs this Summer.

WCS is terrible. As bad as Len has been, he has been FAR better than WCS at age 23. WCS is head scratchingly VASTLY overrated by quite a few people.

Comparison: http://bkref.com/tiny/1gQvC

WCS wasn't even that great in college, despite the hype. He couldn't enter the draft until after his JR year, and that was because they only had him focus on defense, and he was a really good man 2 man defender in college in the crappy SEC. The only reason he got so much exposure that year was because the team was so good, but that was more of a team effort including Towns, Booker, Lyles, etc.

I mean, just look at his college numbers. http://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/players/willie-cauley-stein-1.html

In the nba, he isn't even just bad defensively, he is god awful offensively and a black hole and pulls down the whole offense in a big way when he is on the floor.

[Zelaznyrules]

I have zero interest in WCS. But I have zero interest in Brandon Knight too so I wouldn't be heartbroken if we made that deal. I think I'd lean towards sticking it out with Brandon though just to see if he could rehab his image. But if his presence is the only reason we aren't playing Ulis, that might motivate me to accept even a meager offer like WCS.

[bwgood77]

I have zero interest in WCS. But I have zero interest in Brandon Knight too so I wouldn't be heartbroken if we made that deal. I think I'd lean towards sticking it out with Brandon though just to see if he could rehab his image. But if his presence is the only reason we aren't playing Ulis, that might motivate me to accept even a meager offer like WCS.

We'd have to take a lot more salary back too. I don't want another guy like WCS taking potential minutes away from Bender and Chriss, so I can't see us doing it. I'd say that playing with Booker and Ulis for a year in college might be a plus if we got him, but he simply imo just isn't a guy who's ever going to make any kind of positive impact overall when he is on the floor. Even if he plays some good D at times, he doesn't rebound enough or doesn't even block shots at a better rate than Len, so even on that entire end he doesn't provide enough, and that's before we even get to how bad he is on offense.

[MathiasPW]

I have zero interest in WCS. But I have zero interest in Brandon Knight too so I wouldn't be heartbroken if we made that deal. I think I'd lean towards sticking it out with Brandon though just to see if he could rehab his image. But if his presence is the only reason we aren't playing Ulis, that might motivate me to accept even a meager offer like WCS.

We'd have to take a lot more salary back too. I don't want another guy like WCS taking potential minutes away from Bender and Chriss, so I can't see us doing it. I'd say that playing with Booker and Ulis for a year in college might be a plus if we got him, but he simply imo just isn't a guy who's ever going to make any kind of positive impact overall when he is on the floor. Even if he plays some good D at times, he doesn't rebound enough or doesn't even block shots at a better rate than Len, so even on that entire end he doesn't provide enough, and that's before we even get to how bad he is on offense.

I know you are secretly trying to trade for him offering your random filler in Dynasty, BW.....

[NTB]

https://www.reddit.com/r/suns/comments/5cfvx4/out_of_our_starting_5_devin_booker_is_forcing_the/?st=ivec4e8w&sh=fc1e3ca8

stats.nba.com tracks DFG% which is the percentage a player shoots when being guarded by the player tracked. Here's our starting 5.
Tyson Chandler 42%
Eric Bledsoe 53%
Jared Dudley 45%
TJ Warren 50%
Marquese Chriss 65% (yikes)
Devin Booker 40%
I looked this up assuming Bledsoe or Chandler would be the best, but Booker forces only 28% from 3pt when he's guarding and I imagine that helped his stats a lot.

[Kerrsed]

I would offer the Kings Len for WCS straight up.

Of course his numbers are low, how do you expect to do anything without a decent PG and playing C next to the likes of Demarcus Cousins?? In college he was known for his defense and rebounding, but was still raw. He has the intangibles, but cant quite utilize them coming off the bench and being besides an all around beast in DMC and the offensive power in Gay.

As for a comparison, lets use LAST SEASONS stats as they both had similar minutes and a larger sample size: Here

A lot close to each other, huh? And you still have to remember, that was WCS rookie season and was playing next to one of the most dominant bigs in the league, while Len already had a few years in the league (al' be it injury plagued), but also Len had no one comparable to DMC playing next to him at PF.

Im just saying, i think if you put Len on the Kings, you would see his numbers drop even lower than what WCS's currently are, and vice versa with his numbers being better than Lens here in Phoenix.

It also helps set up our future a bit. How you may ask? Easy:

Step 1: Draft Booker
Step 2: Draft Ulis
Step 3: Trade Len for WCS
Step 4: Wait for KAT to become disgruntled like most high end players do in Minnesota
Step 5: ?????????????????????
Step 6: PROFIT!

Its the Re-Unification Plan!

[Saberestar]

A Len for WCS trade is not a bad one, but I am not sure if I would make it.

With WCS you have two more years of his production after this season on a rookie contract, that is a big advantage respect to Len.

[Kerrsed]

Watch on YouTube

Watch on YouTube

[dremill24]

If the Kings are having trouble finding minutes for their young big, why would they trade him for another young big who is in line for a big pay raise?

[ATTL]

Because they're the kings.

[Kerrsed]

Well for 1, its the Kings (lol).

But also WCS and Len are both guys that are seeming like they need a change of scenery to help them reach their potential. Ive had it up to here with Len. Sure, he still has potential, but i dont think he will ever reach that potential in a Suns uniform. Same thing goes for WCS.

Now to add onto my thoughts of being perfectly fine with trading Len for WCS, i honestly dont think thats where the deal would end, but more so where it would begin. I think most Suns fans would be perfectly fine sending them Knight as well, as they really could do with having a semi legit PG or even a secondary ballhandler starting at the SG spot. Either way, Knight would be an instant upgrade at either PG or SG for them. For as much hate as he gets from Suns fans (Myself included), when he took over last year as our starting PG when Bled went down, he did a pretty damn good job. His numbers were lesser, but damn near identical to Bledsoes.

Per 36
Bledsoe - 21.5 points (48%2PT, 38%3PT), 6.5 assists, 4 rebounds, 2 steals, 3.7 turnovers.
Knight - 19.6 (46%2PT, 34%3PT), 5 assists, 4 rebounds, 1 steal, 3.4 turnovers.

And for as much as Bledsoe is lauded for his Defense, it really was THAT much better than Knights. The stats show a similar Defensive rating (107 vs 111) and the WS and DWS are even closer.

Now Knight coming off the bench is a whole different story. Bench Knight is the Knight that i hate. He isnt handling the demotion as well as the FO would like it to seem.

With all that being said, i think he could do much much better in the starting line-up whether it be for us or the Kings. So as for the trade, something like Len/Knight for WCS/Afflalo would be doable in my book as well. I believe just this simple of a trade could boost their team enough to get at least 10 more wins than currently constructed.

Now of course we would also have to look at the inevitable, The Kings would/could ask for Bledsoe instead of Knight, and truth be told, im not totally against it. Look, i love me some Bledsoe, but i think he hasnt lived up to the hype of the player that we thought he would be. Injurys have lessoned his ceiling in my book, but i just have a feeling that he wont be the PG for us or for our future. Sacramento would want him as he is currently more valuable than Knight, but also because of his relationship with Cousins, and the hope that obtaining him would not only keep Cousin happy, but would also help keep Cousins in a Kings jersey.

But Bledsoe would also have to net us a higher return than just WCS and Afflalo, and they dont have much on the roster that i would be willing to take on besides Skal, so somekind of future pick would have to be involved. Currently, Chicago own their 2017 1st (top 10 protected) and Philly also has the right to swap picks if its in the top 10, so if the Kings end up with a worse record than the Sixers, the Sixers will swap the pick. If the Kings end up with a top 10 pick, Chicago will receive the Kings 2017 2nd round pick instead. Philly also owns the Kings 2019 pick unprotected, so we would have to either get and even later pick (2021?) or make a deal that could net us their 2017 pick if it falls within the Chicago protected 1-10, with a back-up option of a later pick if the Bulls do end up with the pick. Yes it sounds complicated, but thats what FO's are for and i hope they are reading this post.

Sooooo... TL:DR

Len for WCS
Len/Knight for WCS/Afflalo
Len/Bledsoe for WCS/Afflalo/Skal/2017 1st (#1-10) or future 1st.

[bwgood77]

I would offer the Kings Len for WCS straight up.

Of course his numbers are low, how do you expect to do anything without a decent PG and playing C next to the likes of Demarcus Cousins?? In college he was known for his defense and rebounding, but was still raw. He has the intangibles, but cant quite utilize them coming off the bench and being besides an all around beast in DMC and the offensive power in Gay.

As for a comparison, lets use LAST SEASONS stats as they both had similar minutes and a larger sample size: Here

A lot close to each other, huh? And you still have to remember, that was WCS rookie season and was playing next to one of the most dominant bigs in the league, while Len already had a few years in the league (al' be it injury plagued), but also Len had no one comparable to DMC playing next to him at PF.

Im just saying, i think if you put Len on the Kings, you would see his numbers drop even lower than what WCS's currently are, and vice versa with his numbers being better than Lens here in Phoenix.

It also helps set up our future a bit. How you may ask? Easy:

Step 1: Draft Booker
Step 2: Draft Ulis
Step 3: Trade Len for WCS
Step 4: Wait for KAT to become disgruntled like most high end players do in Minnesota
Step 5: ?????????????????????
Step 6: PROFIT!

Its the Re-Unification Plan!

The only reason I'd think about trading Len for him if you thought they were about even is that WCS still has years on a rookie contract and if we are really hesitant on Len. I still want to give Len time. Len still a much much better rebounder and he had to either get limited bench minutes or play right next to Chandler out of position last year. As good as rebounder as DMC is, Chandler isn't a slouch when it comes to that.

But mainly I've just never been a fan of WCS's game, and of course look at what team drafted him. The team that blows draft picks. His skills are not right for the NBA. He would have to become such an elite defender and rebounder (almost Rodman like) to be a guy worth getting minutes.

I'm obviously not high on Len either, but that doesn't mean I want to replace him with someone probably worse. I'd rather address it in the draft and keep Tyson through his contract.

I want someone with a little size/muscle in the middle and if not, I want them to be really versatile offensively.

[bwgood77]

Well for 1, its the Kings (lol).

But also WCS and Len are both guys that are seeming like they need a change of scenery to help them reach their potential. Ive had it up to here with Len. Sure, he still has potential, but i dont think he will ever reach that potential in a Suns uniform. Same thing goes for WCS.

Now to add onto my thoughts of being perfectly fine with trading Len for WCS, i honestly dont think thats where the deal would end, but more so where it would begin. I think most Suns fans would be perfectly fine sending them Knight as well, as they really could do with having a semi legit PG or even a secondary ballhandler starting at the SG spot. Either way, Knight would be an instant upgrade at either PG or SG for them. For as much hate as he gets from Suns fans (Myself included), when he took over last year as our starting PG when Bled went down, he did a pretty damn good job. His numbers were lesser, but damn near identical to Bledsoes.

Per 36
Bledsoe - 21.5 points (48%2PT, 38%3PT), 6.5 assists, 4 rebounds, 2 steals, 3.7 turnovers.
Knight - 19.6 (46%2PT, 34%3PT), 5 assists, 4 rebounds, 1 steal, 3.4 turnovers.

And for as much as Bledsoe is lauded for his Defense, it really was THAT much better than Knights. The stats show a similar Defensive rating (107 vs 111) and the WS and DWS are even closer.

Now Knight coming off the bench is a whole different story. Bench Knight is the Knight that i hate. He isnt handling the demotion as well as the FO would like it to seem.

With all that being said, i think he could do much much better in the starting line-up whether it be for us or the Kings. So as for the trade, something like Len/Knight for WCS/Afflalo would be doable in my book as well. I believe just this simple of a trade could boost their team enough to get at least 10 more wins than currently constructed.

Now of course we would also have to look at the inevitable, The Kings would/could ask for Bledsoe instead of Knight, and truth be told, im not totally against it. Look, i love me some Bledsoe, but i think he hasnt lived up to the hype of the player that we thought he would be. Injurys have lessoned his ceiling in my book, but i just have a feeling that he wont be the PG for us or for our future. Sacramento would want him as he is currently more valuable than Knight, but also because of his relationship with Cousins, and the hope that obtaining him would not only keep Cousin happy, but would also help keep Cousins in a Kings jersey.

But Bledsoe would also have to net us a higher return than just WCS and Afflalo, and they dont have much on the roster that i would be willing to take on besides Skal, so somekind of future pick would have to be involved. Currently, Chicago own their 2017 1st (top 10 protected) and Philly also has the right to swap picks if its in the top 10, so if the Kings end up with a worse record than the Sixers, the Sixers will swap the pick. If the Kings end up with a top 10 pick, Chicago will receive the Kings 2017 2nd round pick instead. Philly also owns the Kings 2019 pick unprotected, so we would have to either get and even later pick (2021?) or make a deal that could net us their 2017 pick if it falls within the Chicago protected 1-10, with a back-up option of a later pick if the Bulls do end up with the pick. Yes it sounds complicated, but thats what FO's are for and i hope they are reading this post.

Sooooo... TL:DR

Len for WCS
Len/Knight for WCS/Afflalo
Len/Bledsoe for WCS/Afflalo/Skal/2017 1st (#1-10) or future 1st.

Can't believe you'd trade Bledsoe for those guys, none of who may be guys that can even get any playing time on a playoff caliber team.

[bwgood77]

If the Kings are having trouble finding minutes for their young big, why would they trade him for another young big who is in line for a big pay raise?

They won't. They just drafted the big greek and Skal as well, and then have Koufos as well.