Official Brett Brown thread

[TTP]

You think Saric is horrible on offense, but if that's the case, why is the Sixers' offense best when he's on the floor?

Dario Saric currently has a -5 BPM while Richaun Holmes has a 2.2 BPM...

BPM relies on a player's box score information and the team's overall performance to estimate a player's performance relative to league average. BPM is a per-100-possession stat, the same scale as Adjusted Plus/Minus: 0.0 is league average, +5 means the player is 5 points better than an average player over 100 possessions (which is about All-NBA level), -2 is replacement level, and -5 is really bad.http://www.basketball-reference.com/about/bpm.html

Dario Saric is "really bad."

BPM is a box score stat that doesn't do a great job of measuring intangibles (the things that don't show up in the box score).

I've already postulated that Saric is very good at things that don't show up in the box score. You still haven't answered my question though so I'll ask it again. You think Saric is horrible on offense, but if that's the case, why is the Sixers' offense best when he's on the floor?

[SelfishPlayer]

You think Saric is horrible on offense, but if that's the case, why is the Sixers' offense best when he's on the floor?

Dario Saric currently has a -5 BPM while Richaun Holmes has a 2.2 BPM...

BPM relies on a player's box score information and the team's overall performance to estimate a player's performance relative to league average. BPM is a per-100-possession stat, the same scale as Adjusted Plus/Minus: 0.0 is league average, +5 means the player is 5 points better than an average player over 100 possessions (which is about All-NBA level), -2 is replacement level, and -5 is really bad.http://www.basketball-reference.com/about/bpm.html

Dario Saric is "really bad."

BPM is a box score stat that doesn't do a great job of measuring intangibles (the things that don't show up in the box score).

I've already postulated that Saric is very good at things that don't show up in the box score. You still haven't answered my question though so I'll ask it again. You think Saric is horrible on offense, but if that's the case, why is the Sixers' offense best when he's on the floor?

Sounds like you are attempting to make Saric into some kind of team player glue guy that does everything great that the coach asks of him, most of which is not quantifiable, yet it's all for a team with ZERO WINS! That's what is quantifiable, he's a horrible basketball player starting on a team with zero wins while there are players on the bench that are better than he is, one of them the former #3 pick in the draft. How the hell is Saric starting over the #3 pick in the draft and stinking up the joint while doing it?

[TTP]

Dario Saric currently has a -5 BPM while Richaun Holmes has a 2.2 BPM...



Dario Saric is "really bad."

BPM is a box score stat that doesn't do a great job of measuring intangibles (the things that don't show up in the box score).

I've already postulated that Saric is very good at things that don't show up in the box score. You still haven't answered my question though so I'll ask it again. You think Saric is horrible on offense, but if that's the case, why is the Sixers' offense best when he's on the floor?

Sounds like you are attempting to make Saric into some kind of team player glue guy that does everything great that the coach asks of him, most of which is not quantifiable, yet it's all for a team with ZERO WINS! That's what is quantifiable, he's a horrible basketball player starting on a team with zero wins while there are players on the bench that are better than he is, one of them the former #3 pick in the draft. How the hell is Saric starting over the #3 pick in the draft and stinking up the joint while doing it?

I'm attempting to use data and all available information to come to an informed and logical conclusion. Sounds like you are attempting to dodge my question and then use caps in order to sensationalize and try to make up for a weak argument.

You are saying these things are not quantifiable, but that's not entirely true. Certain statistics do a better job telling the entire story than others. RPM does a better job quantifying things that BPM, PER, etc do not. Looking at on/off splits does a decent job of indicating whether a player makes his team better.

Why does it matter that we have zero wins for the context of our discussion? It doesn't make the statistics any less relevant.

Give it up with the #3 pick in the draft argument. It's weak and we have a year's worth of pro data that is significantly more relevant than anything from pre-draft. Anthony Bennett was the #1 pick in his draft - that alone does not make him worthy of playing time over those that have earned it by playing better. The irony here is that Okafor's career BPM is -4.1, so by your own logic, he's pretty bad and not worthy of playing time.

It is a pretty interesting comparison though. Saric has been one of the least efficient scorers on the team, yet lineups that include him have been among the team's best offenses. Okafor has been among the more efficient scorers on the team, yet lineups that include him have been among the team's worst offenses. Assuming this kept up over a larger sample, what would you make of that?

[SelfishPlayer]

Why does it matter that we have zero wins for the context of our discussion? It doesn't make the statistics any less relevant.

The context is that Brett Brown needs to be fired and my suggestions are those that I believe will improve the Sixers in the win column. We know what results when Saric and Ersan play at the PF position, LOSSES! We don't know what happens when Embiid, Okafor, and Holmes receive the bulk of minutes at the C/PF positions.

[TTP]

Why does it matter that we have zero wins for the context of our discussion? It doesn't make the statistics any less relevant.

The context is that Brett Brown needs to be fired and my suggestions are those that I believe will improve the Sixers in the win column. We know what results when Saric and Ersan play at the PF position, LOSSES! We don't know what happens when Embiid, Okafor, and Holmes receive the bulk of minutes at the C/PF positions.

Using that same logic though, we have losses when Embiid, Okafor, and Holmes play at the C position. Should we be trying other people out at the C position instead? Should we move them both to point guard? Should we switch up everyone on the team's position? Do you see why your argument is weak?

[SelfishPlayer]

Why does it matter that we have zero wins for the context of our discussion? It doesn't make the statistics any less relevant.

The context is that Brett Brown needs to be fired and my suggestions are those that I believe will improve the Sixers in the win column. We know what results when Saric and Ersan play at the PF position, LOSSES! We don't know what happens when Embiid, Okafor, and Holmes receive the bulk of minutes at the C/PF positions.

Using that same logic though, we have losses when Embiid, Okafor, and Holmes play at the C position. Should we be trying other people out at the C position instead? Should we move them both to point guard? Should we switch up everyone on the team's position? Do you see why your argument is weak?

Sorry, Embiid will not be playing PG in this league. All of this to keep Saric a 38% shooter with a -5 BPM in the starting lineup? Some fans don't want the Sixers to win.

[TTP]

Sorry, Embiid will not be playing PG in this league. All of this to keep Saric a 38% shooter with a -5 BPM in the starting lineup? Some fans don't want the Sixers to win.

I think you're stuck on repeat mate.

You sure know what it takes to win though, referencing Holmes' 75% 3 point percentage and using it as evidence that he can play the 4. Suggest me a starting lineup you'd use since you don't like Saric. Construct a rotation.

[TTP]

By the way, Okafor and Holmes played 124 minutes on the court together last season (18% of Holmes' total minutes). The team's net rating during those minutes was -17.9. Not the biggest sample but that number is almost as bad as the -19.5 that Okafor put up with Nerlens and significantly worse than the overall team rating of -11.2. To suggest that Brown has never given it a chance is false.

[SelfishPlayer]

Sorry, Embiid will not be playing PG in this league. All of this to keep Saric a 38% shooter with a -5 BPM in the starting lineup? Some fans don't want the Sixers to win.

I think you're stuck on repeat mate.

You sure know what it takes to win though, referencing Holmes' 75% 3 point percentage and using it as evidence that he can play the 4. Suggest me a starting lineup you'd use since you don't like Saric. Construct a rotation.

So Holmes can't play the PF position?

[TTP]

Sorry, Embiid will not be playing PG in this league. All of this to keep Saric a 38% shooter with a -5 BPM in the starting lineup? Some fans don't want the Sixers to win.

I think you're stuck on repeat mate.

You sure know what it takes to win though, referencing Holmes' 75% 3 point percentage and using it as evidence that he can play the 4. Suggest me a starting lineup you'd use since you don't like Saric. Construct a rotation.

So Holmes can't play the PF position?

I don't think he can, at least not right now. He can't space and I don't think he can defend the perimeter. Both of those are pretty important for playing the 4. He's extremely efficient around the rim but his effectiveness goes down with another big in the lineup crowding the paint.

[SelfishPlayer]

I think you're stuck on repeat mate.

You sure know what it takes to win though, referencing Holmes' 75% 3 point percentage and using it as evidence that he can play the 4. Suggest me a starting lineup you'd use since you don't like Saric. Construct a rotation.

So Holmes can't play the PF position?

I don't think he can, at least not right now. He can't space and I don't think he can defend the perimeter. Both of those are pretty important for playing the 4. He's extremely efficient around the rim but his effectiveness goes down with another big in the lineup crowding the paint.

Another big like Embiid shooting threes? You're saying that he can't space the floor, yet Brett Brown has Holmes catching the ball behind the 3 point line with the right to shoot the ball and has been doing so since Summer League so the head coach doesn't agree with you.

[TTP]

So Holmes can't play the PF position?

I don't think he can, at least not right now. He can't space and I don't think he can defend the perimeter. Both of those are pretty important for playing the 4. He's extremely efficient around the rim but his effectiveness goes down with another big in the lineup crowding the paint.

Another big like Embiid shooting threes?

What about defense, the other half of my argument?

Embiid's also not always going to be around the perimeter on offense and you're wasting his talents if you remove him from the paint. You shouldn't be minimizing Embiid's skillset so you can get Richaun Holmes minutes at the 4.

Keep being obnoxious with the faces though. Between the reliance on those and caps in your arguments, it just makes your arguments look weaker and makes you come across as disrespectful and unintelligent.

[SelfishPlayer]

I don't think he can, at least not right now. He can't space and I don't think he can defend the perimeter. Both of those are pretty important for playing the 4. He's extremely efficient around the rim but his effectiveness goes down with another big in the lineup crowding the paint.

Another big like Embiid shooting threes?

What about defense, the other half of my argument?

Embiid's also not always going to be around the perimeter on offense and you're wasting his talents if you remove him from the paint. You shouldn't be minimizing Embiid's skillset so you can get Richaun Holmes minutes at the 4.

Keep being obnoxious with the faces though. Between the reliance on those and caps in your arguments, it just makes your arguments look weaker and makes you come across as disrespectful and unintelligent.

Oh, You said that Saric is a better defender than Holmes. Never. Holmes blocks and alters shots. There will be a combined effect of having two shot blockers on the court at the same time. But Brett Brown doesn't allow that to be seen.

[TTP]

Another big like Embiid shooting threes?

What about defense, the other half of my argument?

Embiid's also not always going to be around the perimeter on offense and you're wasting his talents if you remove him from the paint. You shouldn't be minimizing Embiid's skillset so you can get Richaun Holmes minutes at the 4.

Keep being obnoxious with the faces though. Between the reliance on those and caps in your arguments, it just makes your arguments look weaker and makes you come across as disrespectful and unintelligent.

Oh, You said that Saric is a better defender than Holmes. Never. Holmes blocks and alters shots. There will be a combined effect of having two shot blockers on the court at the same time. But Brett Brown doesn't allow that to be seen.

I said Saric's defensive splits have been better than Holmes' so far this season.

[BNelley24]

I hope people realize what Saric's future role on this team is. He's never going to be an All-Star or anything like that. He is the glue guy on a title contending team. He's the scrapper, dirty-work type player. He can also hit an outside J which is a bonus. We saw it tonight during that last possession when he dove on the ground. Ben Simmons - Jojo. Stud PG 2017, surround with shooters and Saric types boom title contenders baby.

[SelfishPlayer]

What about defense, the other half of my argument?

Embiid's also not always going to be around the perimeter on offense and you're wasting his talents if you remove him from the paint. You shouldn't be minimizing Embiid's skillset so you can get Richaun Holmes minutes at the 4.

Keep being obnoxious with the faces though. Between the reliance on those and caps in your arguments, it just makes your arguments look weaker and makes you come across as disrespectful and unintelligent.

Oh, You said that Saric is a better defender than Holmes. Never. Holmes blocks and alters shots. There will be a combined effect of having two shot blockers on the court at the same time. But Brett Brown doesn't allow that to be seen.

I said Saric's defensive splits have been better than Holmes' so far this season.

Well he gets the benefit of playing with a shot blocker while Holmes is the shot blocker whenever he is on the court.

[3j_McCollum]

Hey Sixers fans,

This year, the Sixers roster is more then enough to get at least 20W. You got experienced guys, you got some young talent, you got some average players but who give it all on the court. You just don't have any coach and I'm sad for this team that I really like.

Brett Brown may have been a successfull assistant manager but he is one the worst coach I've ever seen in the NBA. I've been courtside more then once and during time outs he don't say ****. The plays that he draws are awful and he just don't know how to win a close NBA game and nowadays, there is so much close games in the NBA and winning close games makes you a great team.

I hope the Sixers can fire Brett Brown and try to build with someone else : but there is no much talented coach who wan't to come here (yet)... This is tricky here but Sixers will never be successfull under Brett Brown.

Nice team spirit tonight however

[TTP]

Oh, You said that Saric is a better defender than Holmes. Never. Holmes blocks and alters shots. There will be a combined effect of having two shot blockers on the court at the same time. But Brett Brown doesn't allow that to be seen.

I said Saric's defensive splits have been better than Holmes' so far this season.

Well he gets the benefit of playing with a shot blocker while Holmes is the shot blocker whenever he is on the court.

Saric has played 67 minutes with Embiid, 55 minutes with Okafor, 51 minutes with Holmes, and 15 minutes with none of them.

[SelfishPlayer]

I said Saric's defensive splits have been better than Holmes' so far this season.

Well he gets the benefit of playing with a shot blocker while Holmes is the shot blocker whenever he is on the court.

Saric has played 67 minutes with Embiid, 55 minutes with Okafor, 51 minutes with Holmes, and 15 minutes with none of them.

How much better of a defender would Holmes be if he had Embiid and Okafor to clean up for him and vice versa.

[TTP]

Well he gets the benefit of playing with a shot blocker while Holmes is the shot blocker whenever he is on the court.

Saric has played 67 minutes with Embiid, 55 minutes with Okafor, 51 minutes with Holmes, and 15 minutes with none of them.

How much better of a defender would Holmes be if he had Embiid and Okafor to clean up for him and vice versa.

Probably significantly worse because he'd have to defend the perimeter as a 4. Even moreso with Okafor, who has been alright in a small sample this year, but was the worst defensive center in the league last year. I mean we saw Holmes and Okafor on the court for 124 minutes together last season and they gave up 113.1 points per 100 possessions together. Richaun on without Okafor only gave up 110.7. Okafor playing next to him made the defense 2.4 points worse per 100.

For another sample, Richaun and Nerlens played 101 minutes together last season and gave up 113.4 together. Richaun no Nerlens gave up 110.7. So playing a good defensive big next to Richaun again was 2.7 points per 100 worse than Richaun alone.

Edit: Also Richaun without Okafor or Nerlens gave up 110.1 per 100 over 470 minutes.