Official Brett Brown thread

[SelfishPlayer]

Saric has played 67 minutes with Embiid, 55 minutes with Okafor, 51 minutes with Holmes, and 15 minutes with none of them.

How much better of a defender would Holmes be if he had Embiid and Okafor to clean up for him and vice versa.

Probably significantly worse because he'd have to defend the perimeter as a 4. Even moreso with Okafor, who has been alright in a small sample this year, but was the worst defensive center in the league last year. I mean we saw Holmes and Okafor on the court for 124 minutes together last season and they gave up 113.1 points per 100 possessions together. Richaun on without Okafor only gave up 110.7. Okafor playing next to him made the defense 2.4 points worse per 100.

For another sample, Richaun and Nerlens played 101 minutes together last season and gave up 113.4 together. Richaun no Nerlens gave up 110.7. So playing a good defensive big next to Richaun again was 2.7 points per 100 worse than Richaun alone.

Edit: Also Richaun without Okafor or Nerlens gave up 110.1 per 100 over 470 minutes.

I need more details, which players were playing PF and center and for how many minutes and provide a link.

[TTP]

nbawowy.com

Look for whatever you want.

Richaun's offensive numbers were significantly better as the only big as well.

[SelfishPlayer]

nbawowy.com

Look for whatever you want.

Richaun's offensive numbers were significantly better as the only big as well.

Yup, just as I figured. I don't see anything on that website detailing what player was playing which specific position while on the basketball court, therefore the numbers that Holmes, Noel, and Okafor produced last season together are subject to Brett Brown's wacky philosophy where he avoids playing Okafor and Holmes at PF. This is ultimately about the PF position.

[TTP]

You can just set whatever lineup combo you want using the players on and then know that Richaun played PF in any lineup with Noel or Okafor. Regardless, for the perspective of the argument, the definition of the position doesn't matter. You just need to know whether two guys are compatible with each other. Whether they're defined as a PF or a C is pretty arbitrary.

[SelfishPlayer]

You can just set whatever lineup combo you want using the players on and then know that Richaun played PF in any lineup with Noel or Okafor. Regardless, for the perspective of the argument, the definition of the position doesn't matter. You just need to know whether two guys are compatible with each other. Whether they're defined as a PF or a C is pretty arbitrary.

Thanks. They didn't play a single minute together with Holmes at the 5 according to that website. I would NEVER play Jahlil at the center position with Noel, Holmes and Embiid on this team. It's as if Brett Brown is trying to sabotage his career. Holmes played all of his minutes at the PF position while Noel was on the court. The Jahlil/Noel lineup shows that Jahlil again was exclusively the center. Their production last year as I said was dependent upon Brett Brown's wacky philosophy stopping any ability to see what's best outside of his own ideals. Brett Brown is committed to Jahlil at center.

[TTP]

As he should be. I think there's zero chance Jahlil has the lateral quickness or defensive awareness to defend 4s.

[SelfishPlayer]

As he should be. I think there's zero chance Jahlil has the lateral quickness or defensive awareness to defend 4s.

NBA 4's like Saric and Ersan? What chance do they have of guarding Jahlil on the block? No chance at all...

[TTP]

As he should be. I think there's zero chance Jahlil has the lateral quickness or defensive awareness to defend 4s.

NBA 4's like Saric and Ersan? What chance do they have of guarding Jahlil on the block? No chance at all...

Ersan is a deep bench 4 - I never said he was a starter or even a rotation player. Saric would ideally be our third big as well behind Simmons/Embiid.

If they needed to, another team could just switch their big onto Jahlil or have the big rotate to help defend since he's already going to be in the paint area, which is the spacing problem that two big lineups face.

You should be comparing Okafor to the PFs that he would have to defend deep in the playoffs though. That's the goal right - to win a championship? I choose each of my players by thinking about whether they would be useful for the goal of beating the best teams. If Okafor is playing the 4, you'd need him to be able to defend guys like Draymond, Lebron, Millsap, and Blake on the perimeter. I don't see that happening and I think those guys can easily handle defending Okafor on the other end, at least to the extent that there's a net gain. Thus I don't think it makes sense to try and develop him there.

Enes Kanter faces a similar dilemma. He's fine for beating up on bad teams in the regular season, but against the best team in the world, he was completely unusable - that's my fear with Okafor and also why I think he has no future at the 4.

[SelfishPlayer]

As he should be. I think there's zero chance Jahlil has the lateral quickness or defensive awareness to defend 4s.

NBA 4's like Saric and Ersan? What chance do they have of guarding Jahlil on the block? No chance at all...

If they needed to, another team could just switch their big onto Jahlil or have the big rotate to help defend since he's already going to be in the paint area, which is the spacing problem that two big lineups face.

So if a team has their big switch/rotate onto to Jahlil while he's in the lineup at the PF position, who is guarding Embiid?

[TTP]

NBA 4's like Saric and Ersan? What chance do they have of guarding Jahlil on the block? No chance at all...

If they needed to, another team could just switch their big onto Jahlil or have the big rotate to help defend since he's already going to be in the paint area, which is the spacing problem that two big lineups face.

So if a team has their big switch/rotate onto to Jahlil while he's in the lineup at the PF position, who is guarding Embiid?

If Embiid is in the paint, a good rim protector can provide weakside help when necessary without completely abandoning his man due to the spacing issues. If he's on the perimeter, the smaller big can switch onto him. If he attempts to drive on the smaller man, it's not going to be difficult for the rim protector to assist again because they don't have to worry about leaving Okafor open on the perimeter due to no threat of shooting. It'll be enough to make up for the fact that they can completely abuse him on the other end of the court.

Why only respond to one part of my post though? You seem to do that a lot. The part you ignored is the more important part of my argument.

[SelfishPlayer]

If they needed to, another team could just switch their big onto Jahlil or have the big rotate to help defend since he's already going to be in the paint area, which is the spacing problem that two big lineups face.

So if a team has their big switch/rotate onto to Jahlil while he's in the lineup at the PF position, who is guarding Embiid?

If Embiid is in the paint, a good rim protector can provide weakside help when necessary without completely abandoning his man due to the spacing issues. If he's on the perimeter, the smaller big can switch onto him. If he attempts to drive on the smaller man, it's not going to be difficult for the rim protector to assist again because they don't have to worry about leaving Okafor open on the perimeter due to no threat of shooting. It'll be enough to make up for the fact that they can completely abuse him on the other end of the court.

Why only respond to one part of my post though? You seem to do that a lot. The part you ignored is the more important part of my argument.

If the "smaller big", let's call him the PF, switches onto Embiid to guard him behind the 3 point line because Okafor is in the post, so Okafor is now crossmatched one on one against a center, what happens when within that very same possession Okafor opts to get out of the post so that Embiid can now get into the post to take advantage of a one on one matchup against the "smaller big"/PF?

[TTP]

If the "smaller big", let's call him the PF, switches onto Embiid to guard him behind the 3 point line because Okafor is in the post, so Okafor is now crossmatched one on one against a center, what happens when within that very same possession Okafor opts to get out of the post so that Embiid can now get into the post to take advantage of a one on one matchup against the "smaller big"/PF?

You should be comparing Okafor to the PFs that he would have to defend deep in the playoffs though. That's the goal right - to win a championship? I choose each of my players by thinking about whether they would be useful for the goal of beating the best teams. If Okafor is playing the 4, you'd need him to be able to defend guys like Draymond, Lebron, Millsap, and Blake on the perimeter. I don't see that happening and I think those guys can easily handle defending Okafor on the other end, at least to the extent that there's a net gain. Thus I don't think it makes sense to try and develop him there.

Enes Kanter faces a similar dilemma. He's fine for beating up on bad teams in the regular season, but against the best team in the world, he was completely unusable - that's my fear with Okafor and also why I think he has no future at the 4.

[SelfishPlayer]

If the "smaller big", let's call him the PF, switches onto Embiid to guard him behind the 3 point line because Okafor is in the post, so Okafor is now crossmatched one on one against a center, what happens when within that very same possession Okafor opts to get out of the post so that Embiid can now get into the post to take advantage of a one on one matchup against the "smaller big"/PF?

You should be comparing Okafor to the PFs that he would have to defend deep in the playoffs though. That's the goal right - to win a championship? I choose each of my players by thinking about whether they would be useful for the goal of beating the best teams. If Okafor is playing the 4, you'd need him to be able to defend guys like Draymond, Lebron, Millsap, and Blake on the perimeter. I don't see that happening and I think those guys can easily handle defending Okafor on the other end, at least to the extent that there's a net gain. Thus I don't think it makes sense to try and develop him there.

Enes Kanter faces a similar dilemma. He's fine for beating up on bad teams in the regular season, but against the best team in the world, he was completely unusable - that's my fear with Okafor and also why I think he has no future at the 4.

Ersan and Saric are good enough to start for you at PF until I create a situation where they have to guard Okafor 1 on 1 with Embiid on the floor.

[Sportfan73]

If the "smaller big", let's call him the PF, switches onto Embiid to guard him behind the 3 point line because Okafor is in the post, so Okafor is now crossmatched one on one against a center, what happens when within that very same possession Okafor opts to get out of the post so that Embiid can now get into the post to take advantage of a one on one matchup against the "smaller big"/PF?

You should be comparing Okafor to the PFs that he would have to defend deep in the playoffs though. That's the goal right - to win a championship? I choose each of my players by thinking about whether they would be useful for the goal of beating the best teams. If Okafor is playing the 4, you'd need him to be able to defend guys like Draymond, Lebron, Millsap, and Blake on the perimeter. I don't see that happening and I think those guys can easily handle defending Okafor on the other end, at least to the extent that there's a net gain. Thus I don't think it makes sense to try and develop him there.

Enes Kanter faces a similar dilemma. He's fine for beating up on bad teams in the regular season, but against the best team in the world, he was completely unusable - that's my fear with Okafor and also why I think he has no future at the 4.

Ersan and Saric are good enough to start for you at PF until I create a situation where they have to guard Okafor 1 on 1 with Embiid on the floor.

False. Simmons starts at the 4, Covington at the 3. Max out the space embiid has to work. 3 and D guys at the 1 and 2. I honestly think our third best scoring guy should be a sixth man.

[TTP]

If the "smaller big", let's call him the PF, switches onto Embiid to guard him behind the 3 point line because Okafor is in the post, so Okafor is now crossmatched one on one against a center, what happens when within that very same possession Okafor opts to get out of the post so that Embiid can now get into the post to take advantage of a one on one matchup against the "smaller big"/PF?

You should be comparing Okafor to the PFs that he would have to defend deep in the playoffs though. That's the goal right - to win a championship? I choose each of my players by thinking about whether they would be useful for the goal of beating the best teams. If Okafor is playing the 4, you'd need him to be able to defend guys like Draymond, Lebron, Millsap, and Blake on the perimeter. I don't see that happening and I think those guys can easily handle defending Okafor on the other end, at least to the extent that there's a net gain. Thus I don't think it makes sense to try and develop him there.

Enes Kanter faces a similar dilemma. He's fine for beating up on bad teams in the regular season, but against the best team in the world, he was completely unusable - that's my fear with Okafor and also why I think he has no future at the 4.

Ersan and Saric are good enough to start for you at PF until I create a situation where they have to guard Okafor 1 on 1 with Embiid on the floor.

Alright you're just a troll or are incapable of responding to my valid criticisms, even after I ask three times. I've attempted to respond to every part of your posts but you just pick and choose the parts of mine that you care to respond to, and even then you only seem capable of weak arguments.

I never suggested that Ersan was a starter, and already clarified that. I said Saric should be starting for us now but I'm not envisioning him as the long term starter - Simmons is - and I clarified that as well in the same post.

In the scenario you proposed, an opposing team's rim protector can just lurk around the post and the rest of the team can switch around the perimeter as needed. If Okafor is crossmatched but then opts out of the post, the rim protector is still going to be in the post to contest Embiid should he choose to drive and Okafor won't have the range to really punish defensive rotations.

However, it doesn't matter if Okafor has a slight advantage offensively in this situation (which I'm not even convinced he does) because he's going to be such a massive liability on defense to the point that he won't even be able to stay on the floor.

When you're contemplating the merits of developing a player at a certain position, it doesn't make sense to compare how they'd fare vs the worst team in the league. If your goal is to win a championship, you have to have players in situations where they can succeed vs the other top teams in the league.

Okafor has zero chance of defending Draymond and Lebron on the perimeter, which means you aren't winning a championship with Okafor at the 4 while those guys are around. He will hemorrhage far more points than he'll be capable of creating on the other end (and right now he's not even a positive offense player).

[SelfishPlayer]

In the scenario you proposed, an opposing team's rim protector can just lurk around the post and the rest of the team can switch around the perimeter as needed. If Okafor is crossmatched but then opts out of the post, the rim protector is still going to be in the post to contest Embiid should he choose to drive and Okafor won't have the range to really punish defensive rotations.

Being that Okafor's man "the rim protector" is still in the post, disrespecting Okafor's jump shot while Embiid has the ball out on the perimeter, this creates a situation where Okafor can receive the ball back while cutting towards the basket or receive it out on the perimeter with the intent to drive unimpeded towards the basket. That's a losing scenario for the defense to have Okafor totally unguarded developing a full head of steam at the rim because you created a defense where the big man will totally ignore Okafor's jumpshot as if that's his only option. If the small guy is guarding Embiid, as Shaq would say, "barbecue chicken." If the Big guy is in the paint while Okafor is on the perimeter, "barbecue chicken." Here's Okafor putting the ball on the floor against a top defensive center, Imagine what will happen if he is unguarded because a center is more concerned with help defense on Embiid.

Watch on YouTube

The defense is on a string, if Okafor's man is sagging in the paint worried about Embiid, good, Okafor is going to DRIVE into the paint for an easy bucket. If a perimeter player switches to address Okafor while a big is sagging off of him in the paint, a Sixers perimeter player must be open for a 3 somewhere. Okafor will deliver the pass for the potential assist. It's a 5 on 5 game and the league is filled with PFs the ilk of Ersan and Saric. Pascal Siakam starts for the Raptors at PF, can we say BARBECUE CHICKEN! Amir Johnson for the Celtics, Okafor would demolish him. I can't believe that you are mentioning championship when discussing the Sixers.

[TTP]

Video highlights mean nothing to me, much less ones from the last few minutes of a game we were down 20+. Your narratives and Shaq hyperbole mean nothing as well. None of those things add to intelligent debate.

Okafor does some fancy things but is a significantly negative player on both ends of the court. He hasn't even shown that he's capable of being a net positive at center so I don't see how he would suddenly dominate in a position that is going to be foreign to him and far more athletically demanding.

You still haven't addressed the topic of his defense, where it is much more difficult to envision any sort of success.

I'm mentioning championship because that's the goal of the team and has been. Winning a championship is the entire point of the process. I'm not sure why are you trying to discredit my argument with that ignorant, casual, talk-radio quality comment.

[SelfishPlayer]

He hasn't even shown that he's capable of being a net positive at center so I don't see how he would suddenly dominate in a position that is going to be foreign to him and far more athletically demanding.

You don't see it because you gloss over the fact that the NBA has guys like Ersan and Dario defending the PF position.
You're also repositioning the goal post Okafor doesn't have to dominate the PF position to be deserving of minutes at that position over Ersan and Dario. Are those two guys dominating the PF position in the NBA for the Sixers?

[76ciology]

Let's also be fair and not discount that it's a talent issue.

Brett needs his best player to give 100% to stay in the game that he doesn't have that extra gear come crunch time. And it showed in the game against pacers, where he had a relatively fresh embiid (sat beginning of OT) that allowed us to capitalize on the crucial plays.

[Sixerscan]

I've seen Okafor get pushed off the block by people smaller than Dario this year. Dude is not in shape and that would just be exacerbated by having to chase perimeter players around. And then there is the inconsistent effort issue. Let him figure his **** out before you start making him play serious minutes at a position he's never played before. Start with short bursts against favorable matchups like in the Atlanta game. Either way Brett is not the "wacky" one here and this is a largely pointless exercise because hopefully in less than two months Simmons will be back and starting over all of them.