2016-2017 College Basketball / '17 NBA Draft Thread

LloydFree · Post #81 » by **LloydFree** » Sat Nov 12, 2016 3:13 pm

Kobblehead wrote:Lonzo Ball is a sleeper for #1.

Elite vision, elite athlete and he's flashing early shooting skill (2-3 from beyond tonight).

He's like Steve Nash mixed with Zach Lavine.

Yeah, I don't know why the draft sites aren't all over him. My only concern with Ball is the coaching he'll receive at UCLA. Dude is going to shoot up draft boards though, because he's fun to watch.

LloydFree · Post #82 » by **LloydFree** » Sat Nov 12, 2016 3:18 pm

Kobblehead wrote:Draft rankings for HS seniors are virtually useless. Draftxpress and Draftnet have no clue about these guys until they hit the court. Lonzo's HS tape is enough to consider him in the mix to go #1. His freshman campaign will just cement that, I'm betting.

We've seen it over and over with the ridiculous over-rating of Harrison Barnes, MKG, Wiggins and Okafor. You have to see how these guys match up athletically with other top players.

Post #83 » by **Sixerscan** » Sat Nov 12, 2016 3:22 pm

MKG Wiggins and Okafor all ended up being top 3 picks. It's not an exact science and guys like Skal happen (DX was hardly alone on that one btw), but I'd say they have a pretty good sense of the guys NBA teams are attracted too.

Kobblehead · Post #84 » by **Kobblehead** » Sat Nov 12, 2016 5:01 pm

I really hope Jay Wright continues to expand Mikal Bridges' role, offensively. He looks like a sure-fire lotto pick.

LloydFree · Post #85 » by **LloydFree** » Sat Nov 12, 2016 5:22 pm

Sixerscan wrote:MKG Wiggins and Okafor all ended up being top 3 picks. It's not an exact science and guys like Skal happen (DX was hardly alone on that one btw), but I'd say they have a pretty good sense of the guys NBA teams are attracted too.

Where the guys get drafted is not important to me. It's the players impact once they are in the NBA. The guys they are projecting to be franchise type players aren't close to being those kinds of talents. Meanwhile guys (like Drummond, Embiid and Russell) that they ranked as barely pre-season top 10s, are the franchise talents. I have a feeling we're going to see the same thing this year, with Ball being significantly better than Smith jr, Jackson and Giles.

Mike Schmitz from DraftExpress was recently on a Realgm podcast and he barely wanted to give Ball status as a top10 prospect. He mentioned over 10 guys before him and didn't even put him in his top 3 tiers of prospects

Post #86 » by **Sixerscan** » Sat Nov 12, 2016 5:44 pm

LloydFree wrote:
Sixerscan wrote:MKG Wiggins and Okafor all ended up being top 3 picks. It's not an exact science and guys like Skal happen (DX was hardly alone on that one btw), but I'd say they have a pretty good sense of the guys NBA teams are attracted too.

Where the guys get drafted is not important to me. It's the players impact once they are in the NBA. The guys they are projecting to be franchise type players aren't close to being those kinds of talents. Meanwhile guys (like Drummond, Embiid and Russell) that they ranked as barely pre-season top 10s, are the franchise talents. I have a feeling we're going to see the same thing this year, with Ball being significantly better than Smith jr, Jackson and Giles.

Mike Schmitz from DraftExpress was recently on a Realgm podcast and he barely wanted to give Ball status as a top10 prospect. He mentioned over 10 guys before him and didn't even put him in his top 3 tiers of prospects

Well I think that is less a sense of DX having "no idea" about these guys and more, like you said, the fact that these are 18 year old kids and there is a lot of uncertainty about how they will develop between when they graduate high school and how they will eventually play in the NBA. Embiid is a great example.

Unbreakable99 · Post #87 » by **Unbreakable99** » Sat Nov 12, 2016 8:29 pm

Kobblehead wrote:
LongLiveHinkie wrote:Jeff Goodman likes Jawun Evans a lot.

I talked about him a little after last year.

Kobblehead wrote:
Agnostifarian wrote:True. You were also high on Cam Payne who may prove to be a highly effective PG before it is all said and done.

Do you have a preliminary read on the 2017 point guard class? Any favorites yet?

I won't speak on the incoming freshman because I have to see them demonstrate age-to-excellence first.

In terms of returning collegiates:

J.J. Frazier - Current Junior

Diminutive is size, but high in skill level. Can shoot it from deep and distributes. In the same vein as Boston Zeke, Ty Ulis, and Pierre Jackson. Frazier is legit. I would take him as a late first this year if he came out.

Jawun Evans - Current Freshman

Evans hasn't put it all together yet, but he's already displayed high level distributing. Also great shooting marks, 47% from three (on low volume attempts) and 83% from the line. He's going to need to step it up on the defensive end as a sophomore, though. If he can maintain a 40% three point mark while increasing his volume, he could be a potential late lotto pick.

Juwan Evans scored 34 points today. I'm going to have to keep my eye on him. I never heard of him until this thread. DX has him listed as the 70th best prospect as of today.

Kobblehead · Post #88 » by **Kobblehead** » Sat Nov 12, 2016 8:57 pm

I'm surprised they're even aware of him. The draft sites are shallow and hivemind.

Unbreakable99 · Post #89 » by **Unbreakable99** » Sat Nov 12, 2016 9:05 pm

Kobblehead wrote:I'm surprised they're even aware of him. The draft sites are shallow and hivemind.

How high do you think he could get drafted? How do you compare him to Ball Andy other freshmen prospects?

Mik317 · Post #90 » by **Mik317** » Sat Nov 12, 2016 9:54 pm

Wiggins has been balling lately and MKG defensively changes the game for the Hornets. While neither may be the game changing talents as advertised (not even sure MKG ever was claimed to be that actually), both guy are going to be really good players.

phiphan · Post #91 » by **phiphan** » Sat Nov 12, 2016 10:15 pm

Kobblehead wrote:Lonzo Ball is a sleeper for #1.

Elite vision, elite athlete and he's flashing early shooting skill (2-3 from beyond tonight).

He's like Steve Nash mixed with Zach Lavine.

One of the uglier shots out there, as bad as Jackson's.

76thBearCub · Post #92 » by **76thBearCub** » Sat Nov 12, 2016 11:05 pm

Going with dueling draft threads this year ey?

eagereyez · Post #93 » by **eagereyez** » Sat Nov 12, 2016 11:31 pm

The big knock on Ball was his shooting. If that ugly shot keeps going down throughout the season, then he will challenge for a top 3 pick.

Kobblehead · Post #94 » by **Kobblehead** » Sat Nov 12, 2016 11:33 pm

That's a pick swap thread, as far as I'm concerned. Attempting to shoehorn college basketball or prospect talk in there just doesn't work, IMO.

76thBearCub · Post #95 » by **76thBearCub** » Sat Nov 12, 2016 11:42 pm

Yea, no way it could work.

76thBearCub · Post #96 » by **76thBearCub** » Sat Nov 12, 2016 11:44 pm

I joke. You draw out my inner smartassedness.

JoJoEmbiid · Post #97 » by **JoJoEmbiid** » Sun Nov 13, 2016 1:02 am

LloydFree wrote:
Sixerscan wrote:MKG Wiggins and Okafor all ended up being top 3 picks. It's not an exact science and guys like Skal happen (DX was hardly alone on that one btw), but I'd say they have a pretty good sense of the guys NBA teams are attracted too.

Where the guys get drafted is not important to me. It's the players impact once they are in the NBA. The guys they are projecting to be franchise type players aren't close to being those kinds of talents. Meanwhile guys (like Drummond, Embiid and Russell) that they ranked as barely pre-season top 10s, are the franchise talents. I have a feeling we're going to see the same thing this year, with Ball being significantly better than Smith jr, Jackson and Giles.

Mike Schmitz from DraftExpress was recently on a Realgm podcast and he barely wanted to give Ball status as a top10 prospect. He mentioned over 10 guys before him and didn't even put him in his top 3 tiers of prospects

This year is a little different because it's such a deep draft. I believe Ball was around 7, which is top 4 I every other draft. I don't like Giles though, skinny and brittle.

Ericb5 · Post #98 » by **Ericb5** » Sun Nov 13, 2016 1:19 am

Ball is one of the guys that we should all be watching. Between now and the draft I'm sure there will be a lot of movement in who the top prospects are, but Ball is one of the very interesting guards.

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LloydFree · Post #99 » by **LloydFree** » Sun Nov 13, 2016 12:07 pm

JoJoEmbiid wrote:
LloydFree wrote:
Sixerscan wrote:MKG Wiggins and Okafor all ended up being top 3 picks. It's not an exact science and guys like Skal happen (DX was hardly alone on that one btw), but I'd say they have a pretty good sense of the guys NBA teams are attracted too.

Where the guys get drafted is not important to me. It's the players impact once they are in the NBA. The guys they are projecting to be franchise type players aren't close to being those kinds of talents. Meanwhile guys (like Drummond, Embiid and Russell) that they ranked as barely pre-season top 10s, are the franchise talents. I have a feeling we're going to see the same thing this year, with Ball being significantly better than Smith jr, Jackson and Giles.

Mike Schmitz from DraftExpress was recently on a Realgm podcast and he barely wanted to give Ball status as a top10 prospect. He mentioned over 10 guys before him and didn't even put him in his top 3 tiers of prospects

This year is a little different because it's such a deep draft. I believe Ball was around 7, which is top 4 I every other draft. I don't like Giles though, skinny and brittle.

Staaap. This year is not much different than any other year.

This year isn't any deeper than the 2014 or 2015 draft were projected. Remember when Wiggins, Parker, Randle, Gordon and Exum were going to challenge Iverson, Marbury, Allen, Kobe and Nash for best draft ever? Remember when we were going to be challenging for the Championship with a core of MCW, Noel and Wiggins (or if we get Exum, we could always get Okafor next year)? Guys get too caught up in this yearly nonsense. People assuming that the 76ers will automatically be set by whoever they get in this draft, are being way too presumptuous. The players in this draft aren't projected any better (or NBA ready) than either of the 2014 or 2015 drafts. Multiple players picked in the top 5 of each of those drafts aren't anything special and the same will happen in this draft.

Wait until you see the players 2 or 3 games before you figure out every guard in this draft is a potential All-star.

Ericb5 · Post #100 » by **Ericb5** » Sun Nov 13, 2016 3:10 pm

LloydFree wrote:
JoJoEmbiid wrote:
LloydFree wrote:
Where the guys get drafted is not important to me. It's the players impact once they are in the NBA. The guys they are projecting to be franchise type players aren't close to being those kinds of talents. Meanwhile guys (like Drummond, Embiid and Russell) that they ranked as barely pre-season top 10s, are the franchise talents. I have a feeling we're going to see the same thing this year, with Ball being significantly better than Smith jr, Jackson and Giles.

Mike Schmitz from DraftExpress was recently on a Realgm podcast and he barely wanted to give Ball status as a top10 prospect. He mentioned over 10 guys before him and didn't even put him in his top 3 tiers of prospects

This year is a little different because it's such a deep draft. I believe Ball was around 7, which is top 4 I every other draft. I don't like Giles though, skinny and brittle.

Staaap. This year is not much different than any other year.

This year isn't any deeper than the 2014 or 2015 draft were projected. Remember when Wiggins, Parker, Randle, Gordon and Exum were going to challenge Iverson, Marbury, Allen, Kobe and Nash for best draft ever? Remember when we were going to be challenging for the Championship with a core of MCW, Noel and Wiggins (or if we get Exum, we could always get Okafor next year)? Guys get too caught up in this yearly nonsense. People assuming that the 76ers will automatically be set by whoever they get in this draft, are being way too presumptuous. The players in this draft aren't projected any better (or NBA ready) than either of the 2014 or 2015 drafts. Multiple players picked in the top 5 of each of those drafts aren't anything special and the same will happen in this draft.

Wait until you see the players 2 or 3 games before you figure out every guard in this draft is a potential All-star.

I agree that is too early to really evaluate the draft, but at this point I think that the draft is looking very deep in the top 10, and neither 2015, nor 2016 was looking like that this early.

It is an open question if there will be a single prospect on the level of Embiid, KAT or Simmons, but the next tier down could have as many as 5-6 guys, and that is a very good sign.

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