Political Roundtable Part XI

[nate33]

it's simply unbelievable...a pretty open white supremacist is going to be working in the WH in 2016.

This is more outright lies spouted by the media. Exactly what evidence is there that Bannon is a "white supremacist". If he's "pretty open" about it, then find me a few quotes. The man has been around forever and even hosted a radio show for a year during the election season. Surely there's some actual evidence that he is a white supremacist. Give me a quote.

[TGW]

Lmao

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The Bannon news:

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Just reinforces what I always believed: Trump never actually wanted to be President.

I mean it's great for the ego but once you consider the actual responsibilities....yeah.

that picture of his face after meeting President Obama was priceless

he had that "oh crap what I have gotten myself into" face. not surprisingly, he started backtracking on his ridiculous stances soon after

his supporters fell for the okey-doke

[montestewart]

Nate called it early - I think he is from Ohio and probably saw what we didn't... notice that an electrician that voted for Obama flipped - he chafed at being labeled racist.

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/11/13/us/politics/ohioans-tired-of-status-quo-flipped-to-trump-for-change.html?_r=0

Don't even need interviews to see that a lot primarily white counties in key states that went for Obama and Bill Clinton in the past went for Trump this time. If the vote total in those counties is relatively consistent over time, then some people switched. I remember similar happening when Reagan ran.

[nate33]

Nate called it early - I think he is from Ohio and probably saw what we didn't... notice that an electrician that voted for Obama flipped - he chafed at being labeled racist.

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/11/13/us/politics/ohioans-tired-of-status-quo-flipped-to-trump-for-change.html?_r=0

Don't even need interviews to see that a lot primarily white counties in key states that went for Obama and Bill Clinton in the past went for Trump this time. If the vote total in those counties is relatively consistent over time, then some people switched. I remember similar happening when Reagan ran.

Thank you for saying this!

Trump did best among white voters who voted for Obama in 2008 and 2012 - particularly in the Rust Belt. Race wasn't the issue. They voted for Obama because they believed he was a change candidate, but Obama ultimately didn't help their condition. Trump offered a platform that directly catered to their interests: more jobs. So they voted for him this time.

If one wants to argue that racism played a role in this election, it is primarily in the South where racism has never fully been extinguished. But it's absurd to label the Scandinavians in Wisconsin and Iowa racist. They're the nicest people you'll ever meet.

[montestewart]

Not a perfect skit, but still fairly astute and funny

Watch on YouTube

Chappelle seemed a little off. Is he recovering from some health issue?

[nate33]

Watch on YouTube

[nate33]

The voter turnout in the 13 battleground states was 2.8% higher than it was in 2012.

http://cookpolitical.com/story/10174

[BigA]

Nate called it early - I think he is from Ohio and probably saw what we didn't... notice that an electrician that voted for Obama flipped - he chafed at being labeled racist.

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/11/13/us/politics/ohioans-tired-of-status-quo-flipped-to-trump-for-change.html?_r=0

Don't even need interviews to see that a lot primarily white counties in key states that went for Obama and Bill Clinton in the past went for Trump this time. If the vote total in those counties is relatively consistent over time, then some people switched. I remember similar happening when Reagan ran.

Thank you for saying this!

Trump did best among white voters who voted for Obama in 2008 and 2012 - particularly in the Rust Belt. Race wasn't the issue. They voted for Obama because they believed he was a change candidate, but Obama ultimately didn't help their condition. Trump offered a platform that directly catered to their interests: more jobs. So they voted for him this time.

If one wants to argue that racism played a role in this election, it is primarily in the South where racism has never fully been extinguished. But it's absurd to label the Scandinavians in Wisconsin and Iowa racist. They're the nicest people you'll ever meet.

I think people are also overlooking the fact that Obamacare has become an urgent economic issue for lots of people in rural America. If you are a small LLC or sole proprietor in an agricultural business,the individual health insurance market had been manageable up until a few years ago. Now, if you are making enough so that you aren't getting a subsidy or the subsidy is small, you are paying a whole lot more for a whole lot less.

[montestewart]

Don't even need interviews to see that a lot primarily white counties in key states that went for Obama and Bill Clinton in the past went for Trump this time. If the vote total in those counties is relatively consistent over time, then some people switched. I remember similar happening when Reagan ran.

Thank you for saying this!

Trump did best among white voters who voted for Obama in 2008 and 2012 - particularly in the Rust Belt. Race wasn't the issue. They voted for Obama because they believed he was a change candidate, but Obama ultimately didn't help their condition. Trump offered a platform that directly catered to their interests: more jobs. So they voted for him this time.

If one wants to argue that racism played a role in this election, it is primarily in the South where racism has never fully been extinguished. But it's absurd to label the Scandinavians in Wisconsin and Iowa racist. They're the nicest people you'll ever meet.

I think people are also overlooking the fact that Obamacare has become an urgent economic issue for lots of people in rural America. If you are a small LLC or sole proprietor in an agricultural business,the individual health insurance market had been manageable up until a few years ago. Now, if you are making enough so that you aren't getting a subsidy or the subsidy is small, you are paying a whole lot more for a whole lot less.

When Bill Clinton used the word "crazy" in describing the current cost of insurance under ACA, it seemed like an attempt to acknowledge and address the issue, to connect with some of those voters. Maybe the campaign shouldn't have so quickly shut him down.

[closg00]

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Ok, that's funny. No one took him seriously, the Republican field considered him a pesky fly, then he trolled his way to the Presidency.

[closg00]

Background on Bannon's anti-Semitism.
https://mediamatters.org/blog/2016/11/13/white-nationalist-who-hates-jews-will-be-trumps-right-hand-man-white-house/214419

[AFM]

Breitbart was founded with the explicit mission statement of being a site "that would be unapologetically pro-freedom and pro-Israel". Andrew Breitbart got the idea while visiting Israel.

They post articles like this:
http://www.breitbart.com/big-government/2016/08/21/love-israel-trump-possible-choice/

I read Breitbart every day and have never read an anti Semitic article. I mean, the unofficial spokesperson for Breitbart, Milo Y-whatever, is half Jewish. Obviously I can't read Bannon's mind, so I have no idea what his feelings are, I can only go by what I've read on his site.

And it isn't a "white nationalist" site, it's a "nationalist" site. Part of the reason Hillary lost, is because the media seemed hell bent on conflating the two. ie, if you are pro America first, you're a racist.

[Wizardspride]

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[Kanyewest]

Watch on YouTube

Yeah, John Oliver himself pointed it out Sunday before the election that he was wrong.

[Wizardspride]

Nate said this months ago and I dismissed it....but maybe he was right.

Maybe we should just be two separate countries and done with it.

[nate33]

Background on Bannon's anti-Semitism.
https://mediamatters.org/blog/2016/11/13/white-nationalist-who-hates-jews-will-be-trumps-right-hand-man-white-house/214419

There is little in that article but innuendo.

The only quote from Bannon is that he said Breitbart had become "home to the alt-right". The alt-right is a pretty large, loosely defined group that does include some white nationalists, but it also includes mere anti-PC types and those who favor Western culture (being practiced by whites and non-whites alike). And even if Bannon believed that Breitbart had become home to extremely racist white supremacists, it doesn't follow that Bannon himself is one.

The only other documented fact in that article is that Bannon's ex-wife swore in court than Bannon didn't like Jews. Obviously, that's a statement by someone without much objectivity since she was in a divorce proceeding. We don't know if it's true, or if it has context, and we don't know how long Bannon said it. Maybe it was 20 years ago. But even if Bannon did say that over a decade ago, that doesn't mean Bannon is a "white nationalist" right now. Maybe Bannon has a legitimate religious disagreement with Jewish orthodoxy. Bannon is an Orthodox Christian and they're a bit more hard core than the Catholics and Protestants. Breitbart was founded by Jews, largely staffed by Jews, and has been consistently pro-Israel in its coverage. Dozens of Breitbart staff members, including Jewish ones, have said that Bannon has never shown any indication of anti-Semitism.

Bannon is a nationalist. This is not a secret. His nationalist instincts helped guide Trump to a victory in the election. It makes perfect sense for Trump to continue to heed his advice.

[nate33]

Nate said this months ago and I dismissed it....but maybe he was right.

Maybe we should just be two separate countries and done with it.

I'd actually be in favor of separating into 4 or 5 countries, maybe even 7 or 8. I think we're too big and diverse in political beliefs to be effectively governed by a central body. There is nothing intrinsically good about being big, other than national defense. And there's no reason why the offspring countries of America wouldn't unite in national defense just as we unite with Canada.

[AFM]

Nate said this months ago and I dismissed it....but maybe he was right.

Maybe we should just be two separate countries and done with it.

You live in Hawaii? That almost is a separate country, isn't it?

You and CCJ are probably on a beach right now drinking out of coconut shells, you lucky bastards...

[Zonkerbl]

Nate called it early - I think he is from Ohio and probably saw what we didn't... notice that an electrician that voted for Obama flipped - he chafed at being labeled racist.

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/11/13/us/politics/ohioans-tired-of-status-quo-flipped-to-trump-for-change.html?_r=0

Don't even need interviews to see that a lot primarily white counties in key states that went for Obama and Bill Clinton in the past went for Trump this time. If the vote total in those counties is relatively consistent over time, then some people switched. I remember similar happening when Reagan ran.

Thank you for saying this!

Trump did best among white voters who voted for Obama in 2008 and 2012 - particularly in the Rust Belt. Race wasn't the issue. They voted for Obama because they believed he was a change candidate, but Obama ultimately didn't help their condition. Trump offered a platform that directly catered to their interests: more jobs. So they voted for him this time.

If one wants to argue that racism played a role in this election, it is primarily in the South where racism has never fully been extinguished. But it's absurd to label the Scandinavians in Wisconsin and Iowa racist. They're the nicest people you'll ever meet.

argh! no, Trump didn't run on racism. Some of the people he appeals to are racist, because he said "I'm sick and tired of political correctness! It's keeping people from talking about what needs to be done to fix this country" and a bunch of people heard what they wanted to hear, which was "I'm sick and tired of political correctness! I want to be loud and proud and racist and not get called out for it!"

Still I feel like Trump is not an idiot and therefore must know what people were hearing when he said all his anti pc stuff. Come on man.

Anyway I was going to post these two things:
Another example of Trump supporters being jerks:
http://usuncut.com/news/trump-supporters-brutally-attack-gay-man-california/

Trump telling them to cut it out:
http://www.cnn.com/2016/11/13/politics/donald-trump-60-minutes-first-interview/index.html?sr=fbCNN111316donald-trump-60-minutes-first-interview0809PMVODtop

[Zonkerbl]

Background on Bannon's anti-Semitism.
https://mediamatters.org/blog/2016/11/13/white-nationalist-who-hates-jews-will-be-trumps-right-hand-man-white-house/214419

There is little in that article but innuendo.

The only quote from Bannon is that he said Breitbart had become "home to the alt-right". The alt-right is a pretty large, loosely defined group that does include some white nationalists, but it also includes mere anti-PC types and those who favor Western culture (being practiced by whites and non-whites alike). And even if Bannon believed that Breitbart had become home to extremely racist white supremacists, it doesn't follow that Bannon himself is one.

The only other documented fact in that article is that Bannon's ex-wife swore in court than Bannon didn't like Jews. Obviously, that's a statement by someone without much objectivity since she was in a divorce proceeding. We don't know if it's true, or if it has context, and we don't know how long Bannon said it. Maybe it was 20 years ago. But even if Bannon did say that over a decade ago, that doesn't mean Bannon is a "white nationalist" right now. Maybe Bannon has a legitimate religious disagreement with Jewish orthodoxy. Bannon is an Orthodox Christian and they're a bit more hard core than the Catholics and Protestants. Breitbart was founded by Jews, largely staffed by Jews, and has been consistently pro-Israel in its coverage. Dozens of Breitbart staff members, including Jewish ones, have said that Bannon has never shown any indication of anti-Semitism.

Bannon is a nationalist. This is not a secret. His nationalist instincts helped guide Trump to a victory in the election. It makes perfect sense for Trump to continue to heed his advice.

Ok, this confuses me. What would constitute acceptable proof that he's a white supremacist? Pretty sure you don't get to say "oh, this piece of evidence and that piece of evidence is not acceptable to me that he's a racist and therefore you may not think that way." But I literally know nothing about the guy so whatever. But my experience with white supremacists operating in the mainstream is they use a lot of dog whistle racism. No one comes out and says "lynch them!" anymore, they just say "all lives matter." When some people say it it just means they're colossally ignorant, but other people say it on purpose as a secret code to their fellow racists.