gwynn this year in the majors (without convenient partitioning):
.297
.354
.341
.695
Right and you don't think those stats are bad? Seriously everyone is calling Weeks a bust but he had a higher OBP last year than Gwynn.
and i notice you skim right over his great 2006 in AAA (but quadruple-A? that's funny!) by saying he didn't tear it up like prince, braun, etc. well, he's not prince fielder or ryan braun, and he's not expected to be.
A .300 BA in AAA is like a .260 BA in the majors, a .360 OBP in AAA is like a .320 OBP in the majors, I'm not even going to go into SLG% because it's something I don't even want to think about.
But I completely agree that he's not Ryan Braun, Prince Fielder, J.J. Hardy, Corey Hart or Rickie Weeks.
the club values him because of his defense, great arm, and ability to steal above hitting numbers, like i said.
He's on the bench. He will continue to be on the bench. The club may value him but not so much that they wouldn't trade him if a deal like Otsuka or another good relief pitcher came along.
yes, i see his steal pct., but you could also say that we should have given up on rickie weeks because he committed alot of errors, or on prince because he struck out alot--basically it is something that can be improved upon, and isn't like 'he can't hit home runs'.
Right he may improve but it won't be dramatic. He stole 70% in the minors. Catchers in the majors have stronger and more accurate arms so any timing he may gain it probably won't be enough because of the stronger more accurate arms on the major league level.
no he can't, and he won't learn to, but he can learn to be a better basestealer, because he won't unlearn how blazing fast he is. tony gwynn jr has 4 of 5 tools, and the organization knows this. if he can hit to the gaps (which they are stressing to him), all those numbers will improve too.
What 4 of 5 tools? He has a good arm, good fielding and speed but not good baserunning abilities. He doesn't hit for average or power. So I see 2.5 out of 5.
yes, he is the 4th of, like you said, not ahead of jenkins, hart or hall. fourth. gwynn and mench may have had better success in the majors, but they've been up a whole lot longer, and it's really irrelevant. you want mench in center? gross captaining the outfield? fact is, gwynn is the club's #4 right now and for the projected future, like it or not.
No he is not the 4th outfielder. Mench platoons with Jenkins and can play RF as well. It doesn't matter if Mench is in CF he is the 4th outfielder. And it also doesn't matter that they've been up longer they've both out performed anything that Gwynn has ever done in the minors. It's a fact, they were the same ages at the same levels and both Mench and Gross out performed him.
And yes against RHP's I'd like Gross to play CF while Hall is out.
i admire your dedication, but i can't look at every roster and argue whether he's an upgrade or not. i'll split the difference and say ten teams probably without doing any of the legwork--i know, i know.
Trust me I looked and it's six teams tops.
AL East:
Yankees: Johnny Damon/Melky Cabrera are better than Gwynn
Red Sox: Coco Crisp/Jacoby Ellsbury both are better than Gwynn
Orioles: Corey Patterson they'd probably take Gwynn
Blue Jays: Vernon Wells is better than Gwynn
Devil Rays: Delmon Young and Rocco Baldelli are better than Gwynn
AL Central:
Detroit: No contest Curtis Granderson is better than Gwynn
Cleveland: Again no contest Grady Sizemore is better than Gwynn
Kansas City: David DeJesus is better than Gwynn
Minnesota: Torii Hunter is better than Gwynn
Chicago: They could probably use Gwynn
AL West:
Texas: Kenny Lofton is better than Gwynn
Los Angeles: Gary Matthews Jr. is better than Gwynn
Seattle: Ichiro is better than Gwynn
Oakland: Another team that may take Gwynn
NL East:
Philadelphia: Aaron Rowand is better than Gwynn
New York: Carlos Beltran is better than Gwynn
Washington: They would probably take Gwynn
Florida: They would probably take Gwynn
Atlanta: Andruw Jones is better than Gwynn
NL Central:
Chicago: Felix Pie/Angel Pagan/Jacque Jones are better than Gwynn
Cincinnati: Ryan Freel/Josh Hamilton are better than Gwynn
Houston: Hunter Pence is better than Gwynn
Milwaukee: Bill Hall is better than Gwynn
St. Louis: Jim Edmonds is better than Gwynn
Pittsburgh: They would probably take Gwynn
NL West:
Los Angeles: Juan Pierre is better than Gwynn
Arizona: Chris Young is better than Gwynn
Colorado: Willy Taveras is better than Gwynn
San Diego: Mike Cameron is better than Gwynn
San Francisco: Dave Roberts is better than Gwynn
thanks for the clarity on podsednik--i'd kind of forgotten what exactly he did for us. and yeah, that was a fluke.
Yes he was a fluke but dammit the guy married Lisa Dergan so he has something going for him.
i disagree that the pctg. is what's more important--being in position at 2nd instead of first is what's important, and being there at the right times is most important
.
Yeah but if you aren't prolific at stealing and try to run 50 times a year that could end up costing your team runs in a rally. Let's say you're on 1st, try to steal 2nd and get thrown out and the batter then hits a homerun on the next pitch. You just cost your team a run. Or you do the same thing and then your team strings 2 or 3 more hits together, you just cost your team another run and gave them an out.
basically, i like tony gwynn and i think he provides some things that this team lacks, and if we're ever going to win the whole thing, we will probably need a guy like him at some time or another--whether he's coming off the bench or not.
What exactly does he provide that we lack?
1. Defensive replacement--Nix could do the same thing.
2. Pinch runner--Counsell can do that as can Drew Anderson in the minors
3. Pinch hitter--Counsell, Graffanino, Gross, Nix whoever. Counsell and Graffanino can work a count and draw a walk (as can Gross for that matter) and Nix and Gross can provide power.
flipping him straight-up for otsuka would be a great bullpen upgrade, i don't argue that--but considering where we're at with hall out is it wise to trade your best fielder and be left with a stable of jenkins, hart, mench, gross and laynce "our son lance's name isn't gay enough as it is so let's put a Y in the middle of it" nix?
So you agree with me that adding a stud reliever is more beneficial to the Brewers than a bench player?
And Nix is just as good of a defender in CF as Gwynn. Hart can play CF it's not like we don't have enough outfielders to make up for Gwynn's absence.
and if our starters are effective, how much action would otsuka see? again, the cost didn't justify the return, and melvin believes he can trade one of the other pieces for that bullpen help. i think he has a plan for this whole thing.....
He would provide a ton. You're always going to have a bad start but that's the point there isn't a ton of pressure on the starters to go 7 or 8 innings because a trio of Otsuka/Turnbow/Cordero would be the best in the league.
And with Cordero's status with the team next year still up in the air we wouldn't have to overpay him with Otsuka on board to take over the closer role.
