(Dallas) PG Thread: It's Official. F*ck Joakim.

[ozwizard8]

So will KP at 5 Melo at 4 really be viable against other teams? Not all of them until KP is stronger, but it seems like it has to be used more often

Good second half by Melo after a first half that turned green bananas rotten

we would be really good on offense, like top 5 maybe. The only problem is rebounding and wing depth.

We didn't rebound when Noah was playing either. Noah doesn't even box out anymore and doesn't challenge guys in the paint.

Noah ain't that big. He's 6-11, 230. There's a bunch of cheap bigs we'd probably be better off with.

I have a feeling that Marshall Plumlee would play better defense than Noah-KOQ-Hernangomez-Ndour.
Hernangomez would still have a role as scorer but Plumlee would give more than Noah we watched last night..

Their 30 year old center Salah Mejri doesnt have any particular skill but he's tall enough to block shots and intimidate opponent players.
Personally i'm not fan of this type of center but todays game made those centers valuable.
Mozgov-Mejri-Adams-Koufos-Gobert and many others. We should get one too.
M.Plumlee might be enough for 2nd unit.
Ndour-KOQ blocks some shots but they cant intimidate opposing players. They let many layups, contested shots. Unless your name is Draymond Green you need to be 7' tall to be rim protector.

[Jeff Van Gully]

we would be really good on offense, like top 5 maybe. The only problem is rebounding and wing depth.

We didn't rebound when Noah was playing either. Noah doesn't even box out anymore and doesn't challenge guys in the paint.

Noah ain't that big. He's 6-11, 230. There's a bunch of cheap bigs we'd probably be better off with.

I have a feeling that Marshall Plumlee would play better defense than Noah-KOQ-Hernangomez-Ndour.
Hernangomez would still have a role as scorer but Plumlee would give more than Noah we watched last night..

Their 30 year old center Salah Mejri doesnt have any particular skill but he's tall enough to block shots and intimidate opponent players.
Personally i'm not fan of this type of center but todays game made those centers valuable.
Mozgov-Mejri-Adams-Koufos-Gobert and many others. We should get one too.

big stiffs are nothing new. in fact, the game has shifted away from them. but there have always been spots for 7-footers in the right place at the right time. there are far less jim mcilvaines and yinka dares floating around than there used to be. it seemed like every NBA team used to have 2 in the 80s and early 90s.

but you are comparing guys who are all very different. they aren't offensive stars, but they're not that homogenous.

[Buttah304]

Maybe we just wait 2 more seasons to sign Klay. Would only be 29. KP will be hitting his prime. Klay Klutch. Those two and some other nice young pieces, as well as Justin Holiday on a long-term deal, and then we're in gooooood shape.

This is the best thing you have ever said

[BKlutch]

Read on Twitter

That will be our new death lineup. We keep the game close with Noah in there and then unleash the hounds at the end of the 2nd and 4th quarters.

They can't bench Noah because he makes $72M for the next 4 years. We probably should have gotten someone younger and cheaper if all we needed was a punching bag for opposing centers to preserve KP. It is what it is.

They're grooming Plumbles for this role.

[NYKAL]

don't Worry. Willy gonna steal his starting spot just like he took Quins spot.

[ctorres]

Ok, I gotta call this out. Mods, I love you. You guys are awesome. However, you're allowing multiple PG threads to stay open and it's getting confusing (especially cause there is no date or 'opponent team' name in the title). Please, consider closing old PG threads once new PG threads are open. If a poster REALLY has to respond to a poster in an old PG thread, he can quote them and link to the old PG thread. However, in most circumstances, it would probably be best for people to just drop arguments from old PG threads, rather than carrying them over. Sometimes, you just gotta let it go man. Again, I love you mods, I say this out of love. You guys do great work, but it's gotta be called out.

Now, with all that said, so we can get back to topic (POST GAME DISCUSSION), look at Melo and KP's stats over the last six games (3 wins, 3 losses)!!!!

Carmelo Anthony
6 games
31.4 mpg
23.7 ppg
47.7% fg's
34.4% 3pt fg's
86.2% ft's
6.3 rpg
2.8 apg

Kristaps Porzingis
6 games
31.1
51.6% fg's
40.5% 3pt fg's
84.6% ft's
7.0 rpg
1.2 apg
1.2 bpg

Melo has only had one game where he played between 37-38 minutes. Otherwise, Hornacek generally kept his minutes in the 32-36 mpg range. KP played 36-37 minutes in the Dallas game, but he kept him in the 29-34 mpg range for most other games.

Boston game was an exception for both Melo and KP when it comes to minutes. Ironically, it actually makes their numbers look better now because 31 mpg looks pretty insane for the production they've been giving us.

Wonder if by next year, Melo and KP will move to PF and C full time. Noah can adopt an off the bench role similar to what Rodman did for the Bulls in '98 when Kukoc began starting for them at PF.

[JXL]

So.... why are we paying him $72 million again?

Why are you talking we? Aren't you a Spurs fan?

It's for BAT bro.

[Houston99]

I like robin lopez better than joakim. noah looks slow doesn't have an out side shot and cant shoot free throws.

[Sprewell4Three]

Relax with saying Joakim is hurting the team. It's the 10th game of the season. Just because Horny went with a lineup that worked out well last night doesn't mean it will always be like that. A good coach will make adjustments like this. Yes Noah is not a scorer but he never was. He gets his points off of put backs and tip-ins. His game is setting screens and setting up his teammates, getting offensive rebounds, defense, energy. Way too soon.

The voice of reason.

[Johnny Firpo]

:lol: I thought the wheels were gonna fall off for you guys last year. From an outsider's standpoint - it's amazing the Dirk era was able to hang on to playoff hopes for as long as it did.

Man, I hope so, but Carlisle is a magician, and the team will never purposefully tank, so our only hope to get a high draft pick is being really bad. So far it works, and I'm hoping that Barnes and Barea comes back down to earth, and our offense plummets even more. It really was an amazing run, the only season we did not make the playoffs was when Dirk got hurt. An amazing player, hopefully KP can come close one day, or maybe even surpass him. He certainly has the tools to do it!

[Capn'O]

:lol: I thought the wheels were gonna fall off for you guys last year. From an outsider's standpoint - it's amazing the Dirk era was able to hang on to playoff hopes for as long as it did.

Man, I hope so, but Carlisle is a magician, and the team will never purposefully tank, so our only hope to get a high draft pick is being really bad. So far it works, and I'm hoping that Barnes and Barea comes back down to earth, and our offense plummets even more. It really was an amazing run, the only season we did not make the playoffs was when Dirk got hurt. An amazing player, hopefully KP can come close one day, or maybe even surpass him. He certainly has the tools to do it!

I think you can accomplish that. Especially if Wes stays how he is. Barnes has been a nice surprise (from my view a surprise) but I just don't see a lot of strength around him or depth there. I also think this is the year Dirk really falls off

[CJackson]

BOLD PREDICTION:

Next Post-Game Thread Jason guarantees the Knicks will cure cancer by the All-Star Break

[Johnny Firpo]

I think you can accomplish that. Especially if Wes stays how he is. Barnes has been a nice surprise (from my view a surprise) but I just don't see a lot of strength around him or depth there. I also think this is the year Dirk really falls off

Yeah, that's a reasonable assumption, he still has the ability, but it looks like his body cannot support him the same way anymore. Matthews I think is also done as an impact player on offense. Players seldom come back from full achilles tears, his lift is not there anymore with the jumpshot. More than a year of terrible shooting is not a bad slump. Barnes has actually been really good, and why I'm glad he has this in him (I certainly did not think he did), I hope he will chill a bit as well. Barea also averages career stats and efficiency so far, so there is hope we can be even worse. Next year's draft shapes up to be amazing, and we badly need a new franchise player, after so many free agent fiascos, maybe this is our year when we get a dynamic young talent. Like Kristaps.

[Amsterdam]

Ok, I gotta call this out. Mods, I love you. You guys are awesome. However, you're allowing multiple PG threads to stay open and it's getting confusing (especially cause there is no date or 'opponent team' name in the title). Please, consider closing old PG threads once new PG threads are open. If a poster REALLY has to respond to a poster in an old PG thread, he can quote them and link to the old PG thread. However, in most circumstances, it would probably be best for people to just drop arguments from old PG threads, rather than carrying them over. Sometimes, you just gotta let it go man. Again, I love you mods, I say this out of love. You guys do great work, but it's gotta be called out.

Now, with all that said, so we can get back to topic (POST GAME DISCUSSION), look at Melo and KP's stats over the last six games (3 wins, 3 losses)!!!!

Carmelo Anthony
6 games
31.4 mpg
23.7 ppg
47.7% fg's
34.4% 3pt fg's
86.2% ft's
6.3 rpg
2.8 apg

Kristaps Porzingis
6 games
31.1
51.6% fg's
40.5% 3pt fg's
84.6% ft's
7.0 rpg
1.2 apg
1.2 bpg

Melo has only had one game where he played between 37-38 minutes. Otherwise, Hornacek generally kept his minutes in the 32-36 mpg range. KP played 36-37 minutes in the Dallas game, but he kept him in the 29-34 mpg range for most other games.

Boston game was an exception for both Melo and KP when it comes to minutes. Ironically, it actually makes their numbers look better now because 31 mpg looks pretty insane for the production they've been giving us.

Wonder if by next year, Melo and KP will move to PF and C full time. Noah can adopt an off the bench role similar to what Rodman did for the Bulls in '98 when Kukoc began starting for them at PF.

Agree. This is a fake PG thread. More like a vent of a Phil Jax signing thread by a notorious Phil Jax hater. Put it in trash folder.

[Capn'O]

Ok, I gotta call this out. Mods, I love you. You guys are awesome. However, you're allowing multiple PG threads to stay open and it's getting confusing (especially cause there is no date or 'opponent team' name in the title). Please, consider closing old PG threads once new PG threads are open. If a poster REALLY has to respond to a poster in an old PG thread, he can quote them and link to the old PG thread. However, in most circumstances, it would probably be best for people to just drop arguments from old PG threads, rather than carrying them over. Sometimes, you just gotta let it go man. Again, I love you mods, I say this out of love. You guys do great work, but it's gotta be called out.

Not sure about locking previous PG threads as it hasn't been a problem in the past but maybe making sure the game is specified in the title (like so) would help?

[nykballa2k4]

We didn't rebound when Noah was playing either. Noah doesn't even box out anymore and doesn't challenge guys in the paint.

Noah ain't that big. He's 6-11, 230. There's a bunch of cheap bigs we'd probably be better off with.

I have a feeling that Marshall Plumlee would play better defense than Noah-KOQ-Hernangomez-Ndour.
Hernangomez would still have a role as scorer but Plumlee would give more than Noah we watched last night..

Their 30 year old center Salah Mejri doesnt have any particular skill but he's tall enough to block shots and intimidate opponent players.
Personally i'm not fan of this type of center but todays game made those centers valuable.
Mozgov-Mejri-Adams-Koufos-Gobert and many others. We should get one too.

big stiffs are nothing new. in fact, the game has shifted away from them. but there have always been spots for 7-footers in the right place at the right time. there are far less jim mcilvaines and yinka dares floating around than there used to be. it seemed like every NBA team used to have 2 in the 80s and early 90s.

but you are comparing guys who are all very different. they aren't offensive stars, but they're not that homogenous.

Jim McIlvaine and Gregg Ostertag would be borderline all-stars today.

The quality of the game of basketball, in my opinion, is worse now than it was in the 90's. All this "freedom of motion" stuff basically prioritizes the skill of obtaining free throws which is the most boring aspect of the game. Furthermore, it increases the role of the refs to the point where their impact is surely felt.

I would prefer "ugly" basketball where it is a contact sport and players can be physical with one another. The refs actually allowed the teams to play in the finals a bit, and it was a lot of fun to see guys NOT shooting free throws and having to earn their points.

Regarding Joakim...

Love him on the team, he never has to play a single minute for him to have immense value. Having Noah out there in practice and on the side lines will do wonders. Never question that guy's heart. Noah, as a shell, as a ghost, is exactly what we need.

[Jeff Van Gully]

I have a feeling that Marshall Plumlee would play better defense than Noah-KOQ-Hernangomez-Ndour.
Hernangomez would still have a role as scorer but Plumlee would give more than Noah we watched last night..

Their 30 year old center Salah Mejri doesnt have any particular skill but he's tall enough to block shots and intimidate opponent players.
Personally i'm not fan of this type of center but todays game made those centers valuable.
Mozgov-Mejri-Adams-Koufos-Gobert and many others. We should get one too.

big stiffs are nothing new. in fact, the game has shifted away from them. but there have always been spots for 7-footers in the right place at the right time. there are far less jim mcilvaines and yinka dares floating around than there used to be. it seemed like every NBA team used to have 2 in the 80s and early 90s.

but you are comparing guys who are all very different. they aren't offensive stars, but they're not that homogenous.

Jim McIlvaine and Gregg Ostertag would be borderline all-stars today.

The quality of the game of basketball, in my opinion, is worse now than it was in the 90's. All this "freedom of motion" stuff basically prioritizes the skill of obtaining free throws which is the most boring aspect of the game. Furthermore, it increases the role of the refs to the point where their impact is surely felt.

I would prefer "ugly" basketball where it is a contact sport and players can be physical with one another. The refs actually allowed the teams to play in the finals a bit, and it was a lot of fun to see guys NOT shooting free throws and having to earn their points.

Regarding Joakim...

Love him on the team, he never has to play a single minute for him to have immense value. Having Noah out there in practice and on the side lines will do wonders. Never question that guy's heart. Noah, as a shell, as a ghost, is exactly what we need.

ostertag! perfect call. you feel the vein of guy i'm talking about. and i agree that ostertag is a little underrated. same team, i thought about mark eaton. but he too is far more skilled than given credit for.

i was trying to think of the guys whose skills no one vouches for other than size, yet were able to hang around in the NBA and crack rotations. countless guys.

as far as today's game, it's about the fans. the 90s really elevated the showmanship of the individual. the spurs are awesome, but people don't want to watch their games. they win the banners, but the league doesn't make money off of tim duncan like they do a selfish loser who entertains on the court. shame.

i'm not against showmanship. i'm from harlem. played at rucker, kingdome, riverbank, harlem park, 139th... you name it. half the game was creativity and flair. i get it. but i also enjoy seeing good team play and fundamentals. a lot of basketball fans don't know those things, so how could they be entertained by it?

[moocow007]

On NDour...

I think folks need to give the poor guy a chance. It does look like he's not used to the pace and the speed of the NBA game but then again MOST ROOKIES (what he is) aren't. He does bring a lot of athleticism, length and energy (even if it's kind of all over the place and inconsistent at times especially when he looks a little lost) and he may actually be ideal if the Knicks want their bigs to try to close out the perimeter.

What I noticed is that he's extremely quick in being able to get out to defend the perimeter shooters on a switch. Even faster than most of the Knicks guards. I think that's part of the reason it appears that Hornacek is trying to get him some burn. I mean as it is, it looks like NDour may be the 12th man that Hornacek is trying to see if he can be a regular rotation player and not the 14th or 15th guy (end of the bench cannon fodder or "guy they should cut") like a lot thought he'd be.

Again...give the guy some time. I actually see solid potential for him to play a role in the NBA. He just looks like he's still trying to get used to the NBA pace. I mean honestly, we seem wiling to give Phil Jackson (a guy that should know what he's doing) all the time in the world but we don't want to give up on a guy who never played a game in the NBA before this season just because he can't immediately make a consistent impact right away?

[NYKAL]

Our best lineup:

Rose
Lee
Holiday
Melo
KP

Jennings
Holiday
Melo
KP
Willy

[nykballa2k4]

big stiffs are nothing new. in fact, the game has shifted away from them. but there have always been spots for 7-footers in the right place at the right time. there are far less jim mcilvaines and yinka dares floating around than there used to be. it seemed like every NBA team used to have 2 in the 80s and early 90s.

but you are comparing guys who are all very different. they aren't offensive stars, but they're not that homogenous.

Jim McIlvaine and Gregg Ostertag would be borderline all-stars today.

The quality of the game of basketball, in my opinion, is worse now than it was in the 90's. All this "freedom of motion" stuff basically prioritizes the skill of obtaining free throws which is the most boring aspect of the game. Furthermore, it increases the role of the refs to the point where their impact is surely felt.

I would prefer "ugly" basketball where it is a contact sport and players can be physical with one another. The refs actually allowed the teams to play in the finals a bit, and it was a lot of fun to see guys NOT shooting free throws and having to earn their points.

Regarding Joakim...

Love him on the team, he never has to play a single minute for him to have immense value. Having Noah out there in practice and on the side lines will do wonders. Never question that guy's heart. Noah, as a shell, as a ghost, is exactly what we need.

ostertag! perfect call. you feel the vein of guy i'm talking about. and i agree that ostertag is a little underrated. same team, i thought about mark eaton. but he too is far more skilled than given credit for.

i was trying to think of the guys whose skills no one vouches for other than size, yet were able to hang around in the NBA and crack rotations. countless guys.

as far as today's game, it's about the fans. the 90s really elevated the showmanship of the individual. the spurs are awesome, but people don't want to watch their games. they win the banners, but the league doesn't make money off of tim duncan like they do a selfish loser who entertains on the court. shame.

i'm not against showmanship. i'm from harlem. played at rucker, kingdome, riverbank, harlem park, 139th... you name it. half the game was creativity and flair. i get it. but i also enjoy seeing good team play and fundamentals. a lot of basketball fans don't know those things, so how could they be entertained by it?

Scot Pollard literally had no basketball related skills haha, but he was probably too recent for this game.

I totally agree with the showmanship stuff. I am not against it at all, but remember when And-1 meant something? speaking of Rucker park, I used to watch NBA.com TV (before it became NBA TV) and they used to show Rucker Park games during the summer. Those were fun, particularly the slogan "No harm, no foul.. No blood... No Whiiiiistleeeeeeee"
Of course the NBA is the opposite now....