Where is Jahlil Okafor?

[TTP]

I still believe OK4 was the right pick at the time and I believe he is still a good player right now. Love the way people jump on the guy who is playing with a minutes restriction due to a leg injury.



.

This is a textbook Prokafor post. You say Okafor is a good player now but fail to provide any reason or evidence why. It's fair to say that he's playing worse because of his injury and minutes restriction, but we have almost 1600 Okafor minutes last season that show he wasn't a good player. Maybe you mean that you still think he has potential to be a good player in the future?

[F-Stop]

Typical .. really .
we just watched the 6ers put a team together specifically designed to lose. The 6ers had 2 players on that team which were keepers (OK4 & Noel) and failed them short term.. Now you want me and others to bash them for lack of effort when the front office wasn't doing what was in their best interest.

This is a team game from the president / CEO down to the guy who installs urinal cakes.. The 6ers put these guys in a Historically poor position on purpose and want the two of them to bust it out there?

[Ericb5]

I'm a prokafor for sure.

The point is that he was the right pick at the time. Obviously in retrospect there are other player that make sense, but at the time he was the right pick, and it wasn't even close.

The further point is, who fricken cares?!!!

We have two franchise players in Simmons and Embiid and who we picked in the 2015 draft is a rounding error in our march to contending.

Ok, you can argue that we should have taken Porzingis. At the time NOBODY that is saying that today was saying it then, so they can shut the F%#^ up.

Nobody at the time was taking Turner either. OKafor was the right draft pick, given what we knew about Embiid at the time. It is completely pointless to fret about this.

The Sixers are in a better situation than any young team in the league. People can argue about the Twolves, but they are wrong.

We have 2 of the top 5 players to come into the league in the last five years.

We are in GREAT shape with those two, and thankfully we are going to draft two more top ten picks next year.

Just ride it out.


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[LloydFree]

I still believe OK4 was the right pick at the time and I believe he is still a good player right now. Love the way people jump on the guy who is playing with a minutes restriction due to a leg injury.

Based on what? Forget Porzingis for a minute. Myles Turner is a significantly better player than Okafor. Devin Booker is a significantly better player than Okafor. Trey Lyles is a significantly better player than Okafor. So that's 4 players selected in the lottery behind Okafor that are clearly better talents and you still believe that Okafor was the correct pick. That's just being obstinate.

[TTP]

Typical .. really .
we just watched the 6ers put a team together specifically designed to lose. The 6ers had 2 players on that team which were keepers (OK4 & Noel) and failed them short term.. Now you want me and others to bash them for lack of effort when the front office wasn't doing what was in their best interest.

This is a team game from the president / CEO down to the guy who installs urinal cakes.. The 6ers put these guys in a Historically poor position on purpose and want the two of them to bust it out there?

There were more than 2 keepers on the team. Embiid, Covington, Holmes were all on the team last season and all look to have, at minimum, solid NBA rotation roles and all look to be better players than Okafor. Ish, Canaan, and Grant are all in the rotations of playoff teams right now.

Just to be clear though, your position is that he's a good player that just didn't care enough to try last year because of the circumstances around him? Even if I accept this, how do you explain that most statistics suggest that he actually made the team worse and was a large reason they were one of the worst teams in history? We were magnitudes worse last season than the previous two seasons where we were similarly lacking talent - the main difference was that we had Okafor last year.

[Ericb5]

I still believe OK4 was the right pick at the time and I believe he is still a good player right now. Love the way people jump on the guy who is playing with a minutes restriction due to a leg injury.

Based on what? Forget Porzingis for a minute. Myles Turner is a significantly better player than Okafor. Devin Booker is a significantly better player than Okafor. Trey Lyles is a significantly better player than Okafor. So that's 4 players selected in the lottery behind Okafor that are clearly better talents and you still believe that Okafor was the correct pick. That's just being obstinate.

Were you arguing at the time that we should have taken Turner or Lyles?

If so, please point me to those posts.

Saying today what we should have done after the fact is a different thing than saying it then.


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[Unbreakable99]

I still believe OK4 was the right pick at the time and I believe he is still a good player right now. Love the way people jump on the guy who is playing with a minutes restriction due to a leg injury.

Based on what? Forget Porzingis for a minute. Myles Turner is a significantly better player than Okafor. Devin Booker is a significantly better player than Okafor. Trey Lyles is a significantly better player than Okafor. So that's 4 players selected in the lottery behind Okafor that are clearly better talents and you still believe that Okafor was the correct pick. That's just being obstinate.

Were you arguing at the time that we should have taken Turner or Lyles?

If so, please point me to those posts.

Saying today what we should have done after the fact is a different thing than saying it then.


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I don't know if he did or not but even if he didn't that's not his job. It was Hinke's job and he failed miserable on that pick. He even scouted Porzingis 6 times overseas that season. He watched Porzingis live more than any other GM and still passed on him. Hinkie dropped the ball.

[TTP]

I'm a prokafor for sure.

The point is that he was the right pick at the time. Obviously in retrospect there are other player that make sense, but at the time he was the right pick, and it wasn't even close.

The further point is, who fricken cares?!!!

We have two franchise players in Simmons and Embiid and who we picked in the 2015 draft is a rounding error in our march to contending.

Ok, you can argue that we should have taken Porzingis. At the time NOBODY that is saying that today was saying it then, so they can shut the F%#^ up.

Nobody at the time was taking Turner either. OKafor was the right draft pick, given what we knew about Embiid at the time. It is completely pointless to fret about this.

The Sixers are in a better situation than any young team in the league. People can argue about the Twolves, but they are wrong.

We have 2 of the top 5 players to come into the league in the last five years.

We are in GREAT shape with those two, and thankfully we are going to draft two more top ten picks next year.

Just ride it out.


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Yeah I'm just going to massively disagree on the bolded and I'm not being results oriented. I wanted Winslow, Porzingis, or Hezonja at the time and can easily back it up by citing my posts elsewhere pre-draft. Even if we had taken Hezonja, I'd be significantly happier with the pick both then and now. We literally shot ourselves in the foot by marginalizing Noel's value for a player that I didn't even think was worthy of a top 5 pick. Saying it wasn't close is absurd.

I'm never going to argue that we should have taken Porzingis. I would have tried hard to trade down and if forced to, likely would have taken Winslow in that spot but also could have seen myself taking Porzingis or Hezonja. Never Okafor, Mudiay, or anyone else though.

I'm not sure what your point is in those last few sentences. No one is disputing that. We're debating Okafor's present and future value here.

[F-Stop]

TTP -- trying to twist words to fit your context.. ( Just to be clear though, your position is that he's a good player that just didn't care enough to try last year because of the circumstances around him? )

It was a 50 game season for OK4 not including training camp.. I'm sure he saw coming into the season besides the players on the floor the organization wasn't backing the team.. OK4 and Noel are human am I correct? How long do you think guys will play hard when they see that they are not gonna be taken care of? These guys probably lost more last season than there entire lives of competitive basket ball put together and you want them to care.. These guys aren't the fringe players that Holmes/Covington are. Why do you think Noel isn't here? Maybe because when he got here they traded away MCW, acquired AK-47 who didn't report, acquired Gerald Wallace and Javale McGee. How does that help Noel? I'm sure OK4 read about it.. I'm pretty sure Noel shared this so when a former NCAA champion who has been dominate/winning for the last 10 years comes to a unique situation which is opposite of everything he has ever been apart of Money, Status, Opportunity don't shine so bright.. So I will twist words with you and say yeah he didn't care enough he only put up 17 & 8.

[LloydFree]

I still believe OK4 was the right pick at the time and I believe he is still a good player right now. Love the way people jump on the guy who is playing with a minutes restriction due to a leg injury.

Based on what? Forget Porzingis for a minute. Myles Turner is a significantly better player than Okafor. Devin Booker is a significantly better player than Okafor. Trey Lyles is a significantly better player than Okafor. So that's 4 players selected in the lottery behind Okafor that are clearly better talents and you still believe that Okafor was the correct pick. That's just being obstinate.

Were you arguing at the time that we should have taken Turner or Lyles?

If so, please point me to those posts.

Saying today what we should have done after the fact is a different thing than saying it then.

The question of who F-Stop or I, WOULD have picked wasn't being discussed. But evidently you didn't read or comprehend that. F-Stop said he STILL says Okafor was the correct pick, which is just being ridiculous, and anybody who still feels that way, either doesn't have a clue about what they are watching or is being obstinate.

[Unbreakable99]

At the time of the draft I liked Okafor but I didn't want him because we already had Noel and Embiid. When Russell was taken at 2 my brother texted me and asked who we should take. I said Okafor or Mudiay or Hezonja or Porzingis. That was my group of 4 at pick 3 if Russell was taken. I liked Mudiay better than Russell back then anyway. But when we were on the clock I did not think it was a clear cut decision to take Okafor there. He was just in my group of 4 who were good enough to go at 3.

[Unbreakable99]

TTP -- trying to twist words to fit your context.. ( Just to be clear though, your position is that he's a good player that just didn't care enough to try last year because of the circumstances around him? )

It was a 50 game season for OK4 not including training camp.. I'm sure he saw coming into the season besides the players on the floor the organization wasn't backing the team.. OK4 and Noel are human am I correct? How long do you think guys will play hard when they see that they are not gonna be taken care of? These guys probably lost more last season than there entire lives of competitive basket ball put together and you want them to care.. These guys aren't the fringe players that Holmes/Covington are. Why do you think Noel isn't here? Maybe because when he got here they traded away MCW, acquired AK-47 who didn't report, acquired Gerald Wallace and Javale McGee. How does that help Noel? I'm sure OK4 read about it.. I'm pretty sure Noel shared this so when a former NCAA champion who has been dominate/winning for the last 10 years comes to a unique situation which is opposite of everything he has ever been apart of Money, Status, Opportunity don't shine so bright.. So I will twist words with you and say yeah he didn't care enough he only put up 17 & 8.

This argument would hold more weight if Okafor rebounded and played good defense in college. He didn't. He played defense about the sameness he did in college. Stop making excuses for okafor's lazy play.

[Sportfan73]

At the time of the draft I liked Okafor but I didn't want him because we already had Noel and Embiid. When Russell was taken at 2 my brother texted me and asked who we should take. I said Okafor or Mudiay or Hezonja or Porzingis. That was my group of 4 at pick 3 if Russell was taken. I liked Mudiay better than Russell back then anyway. But when we were on the clock I did not think it was a clear cut decision to take Okafor there. He was just in my group of 4 who were good enough to go at 3.

Pretty much this. I think he still is in that group. Porzingis is the clear number three, but probably a super role player at his peak. Booker is the clear number 4, but there are real concerns of him being a complete guard. Turner rounds out the top 5 and he is also a complimentary player. After those 5 you could argue Jah from 6 to 10. The draft wasn't as good as everyone touted it to be. I'm happy with getting Jah vs half of the top 10, and that's good enough for me. Hinkie didn't miss to the extent that Hezonja looks like, or even Mudiay. This injury and having no camp destroyed Okafor. Once Noel is back they need to shut Jah down until he loses 5-10 pounds. And for someone his size that shouldn't take more than 2 weeks honestly. Jah's future depends SOLELY on him being in incredible shape and playing face up and pick and roll basketball. And he needs to be in good enough shape to chase 4s on D. Don't care if that is 20 ******* pounds.

[F-Stop]

[q



This argument would hold more weight if Okafor rebounded and played good defense in college. He didn't. He played defense about the sameness he did in college. Stop making excuses for okafor's lazy play.

Not making excuses for lazy play. Just pointing out how effort can be swayed when you are put in a position which is not in your best interest.

[TTP]

TTP -- trying to twist words to fit your context.. ( Just to be clear though, your position is that he's a good player that just didn't care enough to try last year because of the circumstances around him? )

It was a 50 game season for OK4 not including training camp.. I'm sure he saw coming into the season besides the players on the floor the organization wasn't backing the team.. OK4 and Noel are human am I correct? How long do you think guys will play hard when they see that they are not gonna be taken care of? These guys probably lost more last season than there entire lives of competitive basket ball put together and you want them to care.. These guys aren't the fringe players that Holmes/Covington are. Why do you think Noel isn't here? Maybe because when he got here they traded away MCW, acquired AK-47 who didn't report, acquired Gerald Wallace and Javale McGee. How does that help Noel? I'm sure OK4 read about it.. I'm pretty sure Noel shared this so when a former NCAA champion who has been dominate/winning for the last 10 years comes to a unique situation which is opposite of everything he has ever been apart of Money, Status, Opportunity don't shine so bright.. So I will twist words with you and say yeah he didn't care enough he only put up 17 & 8.

What words did I twist? You stated Okafor was a good player. I stated that Okafor was not good last season. You stated that Okafor gave a lack of effort because the team around him was designed to lose. Is this your position? If not, what was your argument in your previous post?

BTW we're several posts in and you still haven't told me why you think Okafor is a good player - the exact criticism I had in my first response to you. Instead you've given me a bunch of reasons for why he hasn't been a good player, which runs contrary to your initial position that he is a good player now.

1) What makes him a good player to you?

2) Even if I accept your position that the organization was at fault for not putting a better team around him, why do the numbers indicate he was the worst player on the team? Everyone else on the team was under the same conditions and none performed as poorly as he did.

3) They're being paid - they're still being taken care of. I don't think the team environment ever seemed poor during the Hinkie era. Many players were given a chance that wouldn't have been given a chance elsewhere.

4) You say Covington is a fringe NBA player but I think he would be a starter on a decent number of playoff teams and a rotation member for every playoff team in the league. He was 13th in the NBA for SFs in RPM each of the last two seasons, and 3rd in DRPM for SFs last season. This indicates he's a slightly above average NBA starter at SF and a well above average defender. Okafor, on the other hand, might be a fringe NBA player, and even if he managed to break into a playoff team's rotation, would get the Enes Kanter treatment vs certain teams like the Warriors.

5) Lol at some of the misinformation here. You say that when Noel got here, they traded away MCW? Noel was on the team prior to MCW (he was traded to us a few picks before MCW was drafted). The other moves were all salary dumps. You're coming off across as fairly ignorant even mentioning those guys.

6) Tons of ridiculous speculation regarding Noel.

7) Ah you're one of the 17 & 8 Prokafors. That's all you had to say.

[TTP]

At the time of the draft I liked Okafor but I didn't want him because we already had Noel and Embiid. When Russell was taken at 2 my brother texted me and asked who we should take. I said Okafor or Mudiay or Hezonja or Porzingis. That was my group of 4 at pick 3 if Russell was taken. I liked Mudiay better than Russell back then anyway. But when we were on the clock I did not think it was a clear cut decision to take Okafor there. He was just in my group of 4 who were good enough to go at 3.

Pretty much this. I think he still is in that group. Porzingis is the clear number three, but probably a super role player at his peak. Booker is the clear number 4, but there are real concerns of him being a complete guard. Turner rounds out the top 5 and he is also a complimentary player. After those 5 you could argue Jah from 6 to 10. The draft wasn't as good as everyone touted it to be. I'm happy with getting Jah vs half of the top 10, and that's good enough for me. Hinkie didn't miss to the extent that Hezonja looks like, or even Mudiay. This injury and having no camp destroyed Okafor. Once Noel is back they need to shut Jah down until he loses 5-10 pounds. And for someone his size that shouldn't take more than 2 weeks honestly. Jah's future depends SOLELY on him being in incredible shape and playing face up and pick and roll basketball. And he needs to be in good enough shape to chase 4s on D. Don't care if that is 20 ******* pounds.

If I could redraft the 2015 draft right now knowing what we know now, I'd take the following guys 100% over Okafor:

Towns, Russell, Porzingis, Winslow, Turner, Booker, RHJ, Richardson, Powell

These guys I'd consider taking over Okafor:

Hezonja, WCS, Mudiay, Johnson, Lyles, Rozier, Wright, Anderson, Holmes

I'd actually rather have a lot of those second category guys on the team over Okafor but think that his value might be higher than a lot of them. I'd probably end up taking Okafor around 15th in a redraft. Definitely not above any of those first 9 though.

[snoopdogg88]

I'll never understand how it became gospel that Porzingis was this "consensus better player than Okafor!!!1"


going into the 2015 Draft, do people not remember the laughter and debate when the Knicks took Porzingis at 4?

It wasn't some obvious consensus that he was going top 5. Lots of people mocked the Knicks for taking him so high.
it was pretty well known that the top 3 was Towns/Okafor/Russell. with the big shock of the night being Russell taken OVER Okafor at #2.

[Unbreakable99]

I'll never understand how it became gospel that Porzingis was this "consensus better player than Okafor!!!1"


going into the 2015 Draft, do people not remember the laughter and debate when the Knicks took Porzingis at 4?

It wasn't some obvious consensus that he was going top 5. Lots of people mocked the Knicks for taking him so high.
it was pretty well known that the top 3 was Towns/Okafor/Russell. with the big shock of the night being Russell taken OVER Okafor at #2.

I liked Porzingis and was high on him. I thought the people who laughed at the Knicks were uninformed. I, however, thought highly of him and wouldn't have minded had we drafted him.

[rzzzzz]

I'll never understand how it became gospel that Porzingis was this "consensus better player than Okafor!!!1"


going into the 2015 Draft, do people not remember the laughter and debate when the Knicks took Porzingis at 4?

It wasn't some obvious consensus that he was going top 5. Lots of people mocked the Knicks for taking him so high.
it was pretty well known that the top 3 was Towns/Okafor/Russell. with the big shock of the night being Russell taken OVER Okafor at #2.

kind of remember Flip saying he preferred OK4, but went along with the rest of his FO. heck, Jah refused to work out for the Wolves 'cause he was worried they would take him and he wanted to play for the Lakers. Phil and Pat called to inquire, and Pops lavished praise on him after the draft. then there was Danny. and, of course, Sam picked him and kept him. what's wrong with all those guys? a couple of them have actually won titles!

he was a beast in the paint last year and he will be at least that again once he's right. with room for improvement. maybe here, if Joel has any say, or maybe somewhere else. i don't see what sixer fans gain in trashing him, or Noel for that matter.

[Sportfan73]

At the time of the draft I liked Okafor but I didn't want him because we already had Noel and Embiid. When Russell was taken at 2 my brother texted me and asked who we should take. I said Okafor or Mudiay or Hezonja or Porzingis. That was my group of 4 at pick 3 if Russell was taken. I liked Mudiay better than Russell back then anyway. But when we were on the clock I did not think it was a clear cut decision to take Okafor there. He was just in my group of 4 who were good enough to go at 3.

Pretty much this. I think he still is in that group. Porzingis is the clear number three, but probably a super role player at his peak. Booker is the clear number 4, but there are real concerns of him being a complete guard. Turner rounds out the top 5 and he is also a complimentary player. After those 5 you could argue Jah from 6 to 10. The draft wasn't as good as everyone touted it to be. I'm happy with getting Jah vs half of the top 10, and that's good enough for me. Hinkie didn't miss to the extent that Hezonja looks like, or even Mudiay. This injury and having no camp destroyed Okafor. Once Noel is back they need to shut Jah down until he loses 5-10 pounds. And for someone his size that shouldn't take more than 2 weeks honestly. Jah's future depends SOLELY on him being in incredible shape and playing face up and pick and roll basketball. And he needs to be in good enough shape to chase 4s on D. Don't care if that is 20 ******* pounds.

If I could redraft the 2015 draft right now knowing what we know now, I'd take the following guys 100% over Okafor:

Towns, Russell, Porzingis, Winslow, Turner, Booker, RHJ, Richardson, Powell

These guys I'd consider taking over Okafor:

Hezonja, WCS, Mudiay, Johnson, Lyles, Rozier, Wright, Anderson, Holmes

I'd actually rather have a lot of those second category guys on the team over Okafor but think that his value might be higher than a lot of them. I'd probably end up taking Okafor around 15th in a redraft. Definitely not above any of those first 9 though.

Lol at rhj,Richardson, and Powell.