Where is Jahlil Okafor?

[Sportfan73]

You're biased against them because of their draft position. They're all positive NBA players right now. RHJ is possibly already a top 5 defender at his position. Josh Richardson was a well above average 3 and D player his rookie season, though there's a lot of reason to believe his 3 point percentage is fluky. Powell is another positive 3 and D player that is in the rotation of a championship contender and played 206 playoff minutes for them last season. Good two way wings are really valuable right now - they're significantly more scarce than big men.

No, I am not, they aren't top 3 picks they are role players. For many flaws as Jah has he has INFINITE more potential to be a game changer than any of those 3. I put Jah in the 5 to 10 range in a redraft

That's the problem for 'Jah. He was drafted as a top 3 pick, so it's automatically assumed he has more potential to be a game changer than those 'role players'. He's catching more crap, because now we can plainly see he is nothing more than a role player. A backup Center, who can get you some points that plays no defense. That's a role player.

As far as your other point:. Okafor's position in a redraft

1. Towns
2. Porzingis
3. Russell
4. Booker
5. Turner
6. Lyles

... are all clearly better than him and there is zero chance you could get Mudiay or Stanley Johnson in a trade for him. Norman Powell is better than him. Ronde Hollis-Jefferson and Josh Richardson have played better than him as pros.

So you could argue he's in the 7-10 range, but I'd take at least 10 players ahead of him in a re-draft. Getting the 10th best player in the draft is not acceptable when you are picking #3. You are supposed to be getting a cornerstone player at that point of the draft.

I mean were splitting hairs here. I'll give you all but Lyles. So you go 7-10 I go 6-10. Not that far off.

[F-Stop]

Well you've had plenty of opportunities to tell me why you like Okafor and the only thing I've gotten so far is that he scores 17 and 8 (which isn't even accurate, was 17.5 and 7). That characterization of Okafor fans is basically a meme at this point.

Why do I like Okafor?

Seems silly at this point.

It is obvious that he is an elite offensive talent. He was a safer bet than anyone available at the time.

Despite being not at full strength since January, he is still performing well.

He isn't in game shape yet, and despite not being a long term fit with the Sixers, he still has a bright future in the NBA. He will be a stud with us, or a stud with someone else.


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Was responding to F-Stop.

Though I disagree with "it is obvious that he is an elite offensive talent" and "he is still performing well". He is a scoring talent - he has tremendous offensive weaknesses that keep him from being elite on offense overall. I don't understand how anyone can say he has been performing well.

I put my answers next to your questions..

[Misteclipse]

Why do I like Okafor?

Seems silly at this point.

It is obvious that he is an elite offensive talent. He was a safer bet than anyone available at the time.

Despite being not at full strength since January, he is still performing well.

He isn't in game shape yet, and despite not being a long term fit with the Sixers, he still has a bright future in the NBA. He will be a stud with us, or a stud with someone else.


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Was responding to F-Stop.

Though I disagree with "it is obvious that he is an elite offensive talent" and "he is still performing well". He is a scoring talent - he has tremendous offensive weaknesses that keep him from being elite on offense overall. I don't understand how anyone can say he has been performing well.

What is an offensive weakness of his?


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Literally everything outside of post ups. His screen setting is atrocious, some of the worst I've ever seen. He's a non factor as a roller, much of it because he's such a bad screener. His off ball ability is non existent, mostly because he has no desire, or ability to catch and shoot mid range jumpshots. He puts no effort towards offensive rebounds. Huge difference between guys like Embiid and even Saric who I constantly see hustling for offensive boards.

Scoring in isolation. That's all Okafor offers, and even that is often more detrimental because it's such a ball stopping play.

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[SelfishPlayer]

He puts no effort towards offensive rebounds. Huge difference between guys like Embiid and even Saric who I constantly see hustling for offensive boards.

Jahlil Okafor has an offensive rebound percentage of 7.0 and Dario Saric has an offensive rebound percentage of 2.9. This is what I have been saying. A guy like Dario Saric is viewed as a "try hard" type of player while Okafor is seen as not fully utilizing his talent. I view both of them as lacking in athleticism. They both are flawed, although Okafor as the 3rd overall pick should be starting over Dario Saric in the NBA.

[76ciology]

He puts no effort towards offensive rebounds. Huge difference between guys like Embiid and even Saric who I constantly see hustling for offensive boards.

Jahlil Okafor has an offensive rebound percentage of 7.0 and Dario Saric has an offensive rebound percentage of 2.9. This is what I have been saying. A guy like Dario Saric is viewed as a "try hard" type of player while Okafor is seen as not fully utilizing his talent. I view both of them as lacking in athleticism. They both are flawed, although Okafor as the 3rd overall pick should be starting over Dario Saric in the NBA.

Also big difference in oncourt DRtg and SportsVU tracking (specially rim protection). Both has almost same # of DBPM.

Issue is more with Jah being asked/required to anchor a defense being a center, while there's not obligation for a PF on D on the usual "defensive anchor C + fake defenders" or our current make-up setting.

But say you put Saric on the Raps or Hornets team, both are very good defensive teams with Zeller or Valanciunas as their C, Saric's lack of D will outstand.

Nevertheless, I've been consistent that Jah's D can be acceptable but his rebounding is disgusting. For me, the big difference between Tristan Thompson vs. Jah on D is rebounding. And the margin is as big as the universe.

[TeamHigh]

What is an offensive weakness of his?


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Is this a serious question?

Can he shoot?

Can he roll?

Can he screen?

Can he offensive rebound?

Can he pass?

This is some Grade A Homerism™. What are his offensive strengths outside of isolation post plays? He's not even a plus player facing up. He's not even a plus offensive player period. And let's not get started on his defense.

It's one thing to still be a believer because he was a top 3 draft pick and he's young and you really want him to succeed. All of us want him to succeed. It's another to not be reasonable about his obvious shortcomings and poor play thus far. He's not a good player right now. He's not even a league average player right now. And if he's going to become one in the future, he better start making strides before he hurts the team in the long run.

[TeamHigh]

He puts no effort towards offensive rebounds. Huge difference between guys like Embiid and even Saric who I constantly see hustling for offensive boards.

Jahlil Okafor has an offensive rebound percentage of 7.0 and Dario Saric has an offensive rebound percentage of 2.9. This is what I have been saying. A guy like Dario Saric is viewed as a "try hard" type of player while Okafor is seen as not fully utilizing his talent. I view both of them as lacking in athleticism. They both are flawed, although Okafor as the 3rd overall pick should be starting over Dario Saric in the NBA.

Classic example of a flawed argument.

You took one person's subjective opinion (sees Embiid and Saric hustling for offensive rebounds), ignore half of the names mentioned, attack the other half as if it's the whole argument because there's a counterpoint, and then blow up the point into the whole argument as if it encapsulates even half of what people are saying about Okafor.

No, people are criticizing Okafor and down on his future prospects for a lot more than just his apparent effort on the offensive glass...

In fact, it's funny because now that we have Embiid and Okafor on nearly identical minutes restrictions and never play them together, they're almost as close to a perfect 1-to-1 experiment as you can get in an NBA setting. You have them playing with the same players, often against the same opponents. Even have them tagging starting duties on back to backs when Embiid sits out. And you can clearly see the dramatic difference between when Embiid is in the game vs when Okafor is in the game.

You have Embiid who's a black hole, taking a lot of questionable shots, shooting a low percentage from the floor, and turning the ball over at a record rate, and then you have "offensive savant" Okafor and there's no significant difference in offensive efficiency between them.

You've seen Okafor dangled as trade bait for months now and no one has offered anything resembling 'fair value' for him, with no baggage (bad/expiring contract, malcontent, etc) to explain for why no one seems to value him.

You have to wonder what it would take before people finally come down. Does he have to go out and brick his next 500 shots before people finally question if he was the guy we thought we drafted?

[TTP]

He puts no effort towards offensive rebounds. Huge difference between guys like Embiid and even Saric who I constantly see hustling for offensive boards.

Jahlil Okafor has an offensive rebound percentage of 7.0 and Dario Saric has an offensive rebound percentage of 2.9. This is what I have been saying. A guy like Dario Saric is viewed as a "try hard" type of player while Okafor is seen as not fully utilizing his talent. I view both of them as lacking in athleticism. They both are flawed, although Okafor as the 3rd overall pick should be starting over Dario Saric in the NBA.

Why not respond to his whole post and consider each of his points? You're the worst when it comes to this.

[Kolkmania]

He puts no effort towards offensive rebounds. Huge difference between guys like Embiid and even Saric who I constantly see hustling for offensive boards.

Jahlil Okafor has an offensive rebound percentage of 7.0 and Dario Saric has an offensive rebound percentage of 2.9. This is what I have been saying. A guy like Dario Saric is viewed as a "try hard" type of player while Okafor is seen as not fully utilizing his talent. I view both of them as lacking in athleticism. They both are flawed, although Okafor as the 3rd overall pick should be starting over Dario Saric in the NBA.

So Okafor should start over Saric because of draft order? Glad that Anthony Bennett is not on this team.

He puts no effort towards offensive rebounds. Huge difference between guys like Embiid and even Saric who I constantly see hustling for offensive boards.

Jahlil Okafor has an offensive rebound percentage of 7.0 and Dario Saric has an offensive rebound percentage of 2.9. This is what I have been saying. A guy like Dario Saric is viewed as a "try hard" type of player while Okafor is seen as not fully utilizing his talent. I view both of them as lacking in athleticism. They both are flawed, although Okafor as the 3rd overall pick should be starting over Dario Saric in the NBA.

Also big difference in oncourt DRtg and SportsVU tracking (specially rim protection). Both has almost same # of DBPM.

Issue is more with Jah being asked/required to anchor a defense being a center, while there's not obligation for a PF on D on the usual "defensive anchor C + fake defenders" or our current make-up setting.

But say you put Saric on the Raps or Hornets team, both are very good defensive teams with Zeller or Valanciunas as their C, Saric's lack of D will outstand.

Nevertheless, I've been consistent that Jah's D can be acceptable but his rebounding is disgusting. For me, the big difference between Tristan Thompson vs. Jah on D is rebounding. And the margin is as big as the universe.

Tristan Thompson is one of the best P&R defenders in the league, is there anything out there bigger than the universe? Saric played only 10 games in the NBA and didn't have the summer to adjust due to international games. If Kaminsky can be part of the defensive team of Charlotte than I expect that Saric wouldn't be worse.

I'm all in for limited minutes for Okafor where he can give 130% on the court on the defensive end and try to fit into a team-based scheme on the offensive end. How on earth is it possible that he hasn't set a decent screen in the NBA yet. They're praising the new training facilities with all the video resources etc, I would let every single monitor broadcast Okafor (and Embiid) slipping screens 24/7 until he learns to set his feet.

[LloydFree]

Was responding to F-Stop.

Though I disagree with "it is obvious that he is an elite offensive talent" and "he is still performing well". He is a scoring talent - he has tremendous offensive weaknesses that keep him from being elite on offense overall. I don't understand how anyone can say he has been performing well.

What is an offensive weakness of his?


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Literally everything outside of post ups. His screen setting is atrocious, some of the worst I've ever seen. He's a non factor as a roller, much of it because he's such a bad screener. His off ball ability is non existent, mostly because he has no desire, or ability to catch and shoot mid range jumpshots. He puts no effort towards offensive rebounds. Huge difference between guys like Embiid and even Saric who I constantly see hustling for offensive boards.

Scoring in isolation. That's all Okafor offers, and even that is often more detrimental because it's such a ball stopping play.

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I agree with most of this except the Offensive Rebounding part. He is acceptable as an offensive rebounder. His problem is that he is abysmal on the defensive boards.

[lotto29]

So I'm going on other way and say that the FO/Brown having some fault on his lack of development. Not for coaching. For not lighting his ass on fire, give him a ear full and bench him for long minutes when he does the **** he does all the time. I still believe he won't be a great player but there's still talent in there to be better. Okafor doesn't seem to care since he makes the same mistakes over and over again. It's up to brown and Colangelo to give him **** until he wakes up because the coddle needs to stop.

[spikeslovechild]

He puts no effort towards offensive rebounds. Huge difference between guys like Embiid and even Saric who I constantly see hustling for offensive boards.

Jahlil Okafor has an offensive rebound percentage of 7.0 and Dario Saric has an offensive rebound percentage of 2.9. This is what I have been saying. A guy like Dario Saric is viewed as a "try hard" type of player while Okafor is seen as not fully utilizing his talent. I view both of them as lacking in athleticism. They both are flawed, although Okafor as the 3rd overall pick should be starting over Dario Saric in the NBA.

Also big difference in oncourt DRtg and SportsVU tracking (specially rim protection). Both has almost same # of DBPM.

Issue is more with Jah being asked/required to anchor a defense being a center, while there's not obligation for a PF on D on the usual "defensive anchor C + fake defenders" or our current make-up setting.

But say you put Saric on the Raps or Hornets team, both are very good defensive teams with Zeller or Valanciunas as their C, Saric's lack of D will outstand.

Nevertheless, I've been consistent that Jah's D can be acceptable but his rebounding is disgusting. For me, the big difference between Tristan Thompson vs. Jah on D is rebounding. And the margin is as big as the universe.

The rebounding gets me too. It isn't even that it's bad. Some players don't have the size or frame to be good rebounders. Noel comes to mind. As long as he is 225 he is always going to get abused on the glass.

But with Okafor he has 7-6 wingspan. He's 238-250. No excuse. When you watch him this year it's just pull laziness. He gets his hands on the ball but either tips or uses one hand and gets it snatched away. He needs to go up with both hands and just get it.

Screens is another issue. I don't know what the issue is. He may be still recovering from the injury and afraid of the contact. Regardless if this is all he can give like I said he needs to sit.

[CoreyGallagher]

More lighthearted, Joel teasing Jah.

Read on Twitter

Read on Twitter

[Unbreakable99]

More lighthearted, Joel teasing Jah.

Read on Twitter

Read on Twitter

In before someone says Okafor is playing defense and him sleeping is nothing new.

[Misteclipse]

He puts no effort towards offensive rebounds. Huge difference between guys like Embiid and even Saric who I constantly see hustling for offensive boards.

Jahlil Okafor has an offensive rebound percentage of 7.0 and Dario Saric has an offensive rebound percentage of 2.9. This is what I have been saying. A guy like Dario Saric is viewed as a "try hard" type of player while Okafor is seen as not fully utilizing his talent. I view both of them as lacking in athleticism. They both are flawed, although Okafor as the 3rd overall pick should be starting over Dario Saric in the NBA.

To be fair, Saric is also almost always on the perimeter so he's not really in position to get boards. But I always see him put effort in, trying to knock the ball away from the defender, slap it into the backcourt, etc.

As for the rest of your post... No, obviously Okafor shouldn't be starting over Saric because he's not a PF. Saric does more for the offense anyways.

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[Sixerscan]

Jahlil Okafor has an offensive rebound percentage of 7.0 and Dario Saric has an offensive rebound percentage of 2.9. This is what I have been saying. A guy like Dario Saric is viewed as a "try hard" type of player while Okafor is seen as not fully utilizing his talent. I view both of them as lacking in athleticism. They both are flawed, although Okafor as the 3rd overall pick should be starting over Dario Saric in the NBA.

Also big difference in oncourt DRtg and SportsVU tracking (specially rim protection). Both has almost same # of DBPM.

Issue is more with Jah being asked/required to anchor a defense being a center, while there's not obligation for a PF on D on the usual "defensive anchor C + fake defenders" or our current make-up setting.

But say you put Saric on the Raps or Hornets team, both are very good defensive teams with Zeller or Valanciunas as their C, Saric's lack of D will outstand.

Nevertheless, I've been consistent that Jah's D can be acceptable but his rebounding is disgusting. For me, the big difference between Tristan Thompson vs. Jah on D is rebounding. And the margin is as big as the universe.

The rebounding gets me too. It isn't even that it's bad. Some players don't have the size or frame to be good rebounders. Noel comes to mind. As long as he is 225 he is always going to get abused on the glass.

But with Okafor he has 7-6 wingspan. He's 238-250. No excuse. When you watch him this year it's just pull laziness. He gets his hands on the ball but either tips or uses one hand and gets it snatched away. He needs to go up with both hands and just get it.

Screens is another issue. I don't know what the issue is. He may be still recovering from the injury and afraid of the contact. Regardless if this is all he can give like I said he needs to sit.

Lol at okafor being 238.

[TTP]

I'd be shocked if Okafor were under 260 right now.

[Sportfan73]

I'd be shocked if Okafor were under 260 right now.

I don't think he's under 265

[spikeslovechild]

Also big difference in oncourt DRtg and SportsVU tracking (specially rim protection). Both has almost same # of DBPM.

Issue is more with Jah being asked/required to anchor a defense being a center, while there's not obligation for a PF on D on the usual "defensive anchor C + fake defenders" or our current make-up setting.

But say you put Saric on the Raps or Hornets team, both are very good defensive teams with Zeller or Valanciunas as their C, Saric's lack of D will outstand.

Nevertheless, I've been consistent that Jah's D can be acceptable but his rebounding is disgusting. For me, the big difference between Tristan Thompson vs. Jah on D is rebounding. And the margin is as big as the universe.

The rebounding gets me too. It isn't even that it's bad. Some players don't have the size or frame to be good rebounders. Noel comes to mind. As long as he is 225 he is always going to get abused on the glass.

But with Okafor he has 7-6 wingspan. He's 238-250. No excuse. When you watch him this year it's just pull laziness. He gets his hands on the ball but either tips or uses one hand and gets it snatched away. He needs to go up with both hands and just get it.

Screens is another issue. I don't know what the issue is. He may be still recovering from the injury and afraid of the contact. Regardless if this is all he can give like I said he needs to sit.

Lol at okafor being 238.

Yeah I thought I read a article way back at him being 238 in the offseason. Too lazy to confirm.

[SelfishPlayer]

No, obviously Okafor shouldn't be starting over Saric because he's not a PF. Saric does more for the offense anyways.

I think that he's as much of a power forward as Zach Randolph. Sad that Okafor's critics use the opinion of a loser coach like Brett Brown to asses whether or not Okafor can play the PF position. It's like if Chip Kelly had drafted DeMarco Murray, he would have been a failed NFL running back until he went to a team that utilized him correctly. But since Chip didn't draft him, DeMArco had a track record of NFL success BEFORE having his career sidetracked by Chip's bad coaching. Right now Okafor is being utilized as a center without ever SNIFFING the PF position. DeMarco Murray wasn't allowed to run downhill under Chip Kelly and the Eagles didn't even have a fullback under Chip to lead his way like the Titans have during his career resurgence. Bad coaching doesn't define a player to real basketball minds like myself. I can see through the bad coaching and time will be on my side, as it usually is...