2016-17 MVP Discussion Thread

[nickhx2]

i mean if i were to predict anything i'd predict that this is the year that the media goes crazy over cp3's efficiency and analytics.

"oh my gosh look at all these fancy stats showing how efficient he is! efficiency for mvp!" (though he's been doing it for his whole career lol)

[miman15]

MVP is between Harden & CP3 as far as I'm concerned. Harden is carrying a lottery team to a winning record & turning them into an elite offense by pretty much himself while CP3 is taking apart teams in extremely limited minutes.

LeBron could easily surpass those two though if he puts forth any real effort considering the Cavs are still winning games with him averaging career lows in points & efficiency.

Saying Bron can simply win MVP if he puts forth any effort seems both disrespectful of the other candidates and ignorant of what level of production Lebron is capable of putting forth for an entire season. As it stands, he would have to be putting forth THE best regular season of his career to compete with the current production level of CP3/Harden. It's not a matter of him snapping his fingers and BOOM everyone else is playing for 2nd.

Because people know that when Lebron is focused and not coasting, he's head and shoulders the best player in the nba. Its not just the stats, but his impact on both ends of the court is second to none when focused (See last years final). Right now he's clearly coasting and letting Kyrie and Love do lots of the offensive load, he's a smart man, he will benefit from it down the line.

[zimpy27]

Butler throwing his hat in the ring. Team has to win enough to be considered but he is top 3 with Paul and Harden for WS and he's better than both for things that don't count on the stat sheet.

Bulls had a three game blemish that makes them look worse than they are on the standings I believe.

[ThePersianFreak]

CP3
LeBron
Harden


Kawhi/Westbrook

[miman15]

CP3
LeBron
Harden


Kawhi/Westbrook

I kinda agree...

[SunKing]

Post-ASG IMHO it will be about Chris Paul, LeBron James and Kawhi Leonard. Narrative and post-ASG run will make the difference. I just clearly not see a MVP on a team under 54 victories.

Every year it's the same, people are getting erected for players putting crazy numbers (which likely tend to down as season goes) on playoffs fighting teams.

Just remember Kobe ended 4th in 2006, Westbrook didn't have a single first place vote in 2015, in 2003 T-Mac was 4th and didn't even be close to TD & KG in voting (same for Kobe ending 3rd) etc... History showed players on fring playoffs team get no love, and I will just act like this is the case until proved wrong.

[miman15]

Post-ASG IMHO it will be about Chris Paul, LeBron James and Kawhi Leonard. Narrative and post-ASG run will make the difference. I just clearly not see a MVP on a team under 54 victories.

Every year it's the same, people are getting erected for players putting crazy numbers (which likely tend to down as season goes) on playoffs fighting teams.

Just remember Kobe ended 4th in 2006, Westbrook didn't have a single first place vote in 2015, in 2003 T-Mac was 4th and didn't even be close to TD & KG in voting (same for Kobe ending 3rd) etc... History showed players on fring playoffs team get no love, and I will just act like this is the case until proved wrong.

Even Lebron and Wade, when they were putting up insane numbers across the board while their team wasnt in the top 3.
This is why I think its difficult to give Harden the MVP nod.

[Triples333]

MVP is between Harden & CP3 as far as I'm concerned. Harden is carrying a lottery team to a winning record & turning them into an elite offense by pretty much himself while CP3 is taking apart teams in extremely limited minutes.

LeBron could easily surpass those two though if he puts forth any real effort considering the Cavs are still winning games with him averaging career lows in points & efficiency.

Saying Bron can simply win MVP if he puts forth any effort seems both disrespectful of the other candidates and ignorant of what level of production Lebron is capable of putting forth for an entire season. As it stands, he would have to be putting forth THE best regular season of his career to compete with the current production level of CP3/Harden. It's not a matter of him snapping his fingers and BOOM everyone else is playing for 2nd.

Because people know that when Lebron is focused and not coasting, he's head and shoulders the best player in the nba. Its not just the stats, but his impact on both ends of the court is second to none when focused (See last years final). Right now he's clearly coasting and letting Kyrie and Love do lots of the offensive load, he's a smart man, he will benefit from it down the line.

Having the ability to reach a certain level for a few weeks on end is vastly different than being able to do it for months and months on end. He doesn't do it in all likelihood because at this point he's not capable (who can blame him?)

[ThePersianFreak]

Saying Bron can simply win MVP if he puts forth any effort seems both disrespectful of the other candidates and ignorant of what level of production Lebron is capable of putting forth for an entire season. As it stands, he would have to be putting forth THE best regular season of his career to compete with the current production level of CP3/Harden. It's not a matter of him snapping his fingers and BOOM everyone else is playing for 2nd.

Because people know that when Lebron is focused and not coasting, he's head and shoulders the best player in the nba. Its not just the stats, but his impact on both ends of the court is second to none when focused (See last years final). Right now he's clearly coasting and letting Kyrie and Love do lots of the offensive load, he's a smart man, he will benefit from it down the line.

Having the ability to reach a certain level for a few weeks on end is vastly different than being able to do it for months and months on end. He doesn't do it in all likelihood because at this point he's not capable (who can blame him?)

Wether you like it or not, the poeple who vote will consider this as a + for LeBron.
"Oh look, the guy is coasting and still putting up great numbers, can you imaginge if he actually tried?!".
Just wait and see, at the end of the season LeBron (barring a major injury) will have comparable numbers to other MVP candidates and that's when him being the best player on the planet will have an effect on the votes. And you have to consider the fact that Cavs will probably finish with a top seed.

Also stuffs like these:

Some of these 5 man lineup stats on the Cavs are just insane...The Cavaliers do not have a single 5 man combo without Lebron that is playing to a positive net rating this season. They have 9 lineups with positive net ratings and he is featured in all of them.

The most successful 5 man combo without Lebron this season is the Birdman/Kyrie/Jefferson/Shumpert/Smith lineup that is a -5.9 pts per 100 in 7 min and 54 seconds together. Birdman is obviously not a rotation player, so let's throw out that garbage sample. The next best? Get ready....Kyrie/Shumpert/Dunleavy/Jefferson/Love...That lineup is a -17.6 pts per 100 in 8 min 55 sec together, and they're the best non Lebron 5 man unit composed of rotation players that the Cavs currently have. Everything else is in the minus 20s and worse

Actually I think they just updated it (or I missed it the first time, but I think it was an update) and there is one 5 man lineup without Lebron that is playing to a positive net rating this year...

Dunleavy/Jefferson/Love/Thompson/Shumpert: 9 min 17 sec together. +5.3 pts per 100. No kyrie in that lineup which is interesting

[miman15]

Saying Bron can simply win MVP if he puts forth any effort seems both disrespectful of the other candidates and ignorant of what level of production Lebron is capable of putting forth for an entire season. As it stands, he would have to be putting forth THE best regular season of his career to compete with the current production level of CP3/Harden. It's not a matter of him snapping his fingers and BOOM everyone else is playing for 2nd.

Because people know that when Lebron is focused and not coasting, he's head and shoulders the best player in the nba. Its not just the stats, but his impact on both ends of the court is second to none when focused (See last years final). Right now he's clearly coasting and letting Kyrie and Love do lots of the offensive load, he's a smart man, he will benefit from it down the line.

Having the ability to reach a certain level for a few weeks on end is vastly different than being able to do it for months and months on end. He doesn't do it in all likelihood because at this point he's not capable (who can blame him?)

NBA dosent award MVP to the player with the most impressive stats. It always goes to the player who has the biggest impact to a team that is on the top 2 in the conference.

[The411]

Lebron isn't in the race right now. His advanced metrics are the worst for a MVP candidate since Derrick Rose (who had no business winning an MVP)

[HotRocks34]

Lebron isn't in the race right now. His advanced metrics are the worst for a MVP candidate since Derrick Rose (who had no business winning an MVP)

This writer disagrees.

http://www.si.com/nba/2016/11/16/lebron-james-cavaliers-kyrie-irving-kevin-love-mvp-race

The title shine should help James this year, though, as he firmly snatched The Best Player in the World card back from Curry during the Finals, something that could still be hard for voters to ignore come time to cast ballots this season. And while they still aren’t tops in the league, the Cavs have looked more cohesive this year. If their current net rating sticks, it would be the highest posted by the team since LeBron’s return.

The stats will be there for James. His scoring is down so far this season, but his assists and rebounds are up, as well as a focus he seemingly lacked at the start of the last two years. Ultimately, this year’s MVP race could very well come down to Cleveland’s continued dominance as opposed to James’s individual brilliance. If the Cavaliers win over 60 games, I have a hard time believing anyone other than LeBron will be lifting the MVP trophy come next summer.

I pretty much agree with that writer.

MJ's advanced stats when he won his last MVP:

25.2 PER
.238 WS48
+0.0 DBPM
+4.6 BPM

As that writer points out, and as Jordan did in the 1997 Finals, LeBron reclaimed his status as Best Player In The World in the previous Finals.

I would not discount that when it comes time to count the MVP votes.

Also, the Cavs lost tonight. And LeBron didn't play. That won't hurt his candidacy much, although the team loss doesn't help him, either, in terms of team record.

[StroShow6]

Curry has got to be in the conversation. Another great performance by him tonight as Golden State improves to 9-2.

[Woolyy]

I love LeBron but he coasts through the regular season and it wouldn't surprise me if he won another MVP because his numbers are always ridiculous but right now I would give the award to Chris Paul and I'm fine with that because I really, really want to see him win something and make a deep playoff run.

[Rastas]

Paul with anti MVP stats tonight.
Dropping down the MVP list.

[ninjamilk23]

Paul with anti MVP stats tonight.
Dropping down the MVP list.

You can pretty much say the same thing with Harden.

[XtotheDeezy]

Paul with anti MVP stats tonight.
Dropping down the MVP list.

You can pretty much say the same thing with Harden.

Harden takes less of a hit when he has an off-game, because he carries the team more. Paul is the key piece to his team, but he has Griffin to shoulder some of the burden. Harden has guys that submit to Westbrook.

[BloodNinja]

Curry has got to be in the conversation. Another great performance by him tonight as Golden State improves to 9-2.

While I agree I think neither Curry nor Durant has a shot at the MVP. They will partially cannibalize each others chances but also last season's success will make it hard for both guys to win.

[INKtastic]

MVP is between Harden & CP3 as far as I'm concerned. Harden is carrying a lottery team to a winning record & turning them into an elite offense by pretty much himself while CP3 is taking apart teams in extremely limited minutes.

LeBron could easily surpass those two though if he puts forth any real effort considering the Cavs are still winning games with him averaging career lows in points & efficiency.

Saying Bron can simply win MVP if he puts forth any effort seems both disrespectful of the other candidates and ignorant of what level of production Lebron is capable of putting forth for an entire season. As it stands, he would have to be putting forth THE best regular season of his career to compete with the current production level of CP3/Harden. It's not a matter of him snapping his fingers and BOOM everyone else is playing for 2nd.

Did you miss when he just snapped his fingers and went BOOM in the NBA finals with the unanimous MVP on the other team? And after last night, since his return, the Cavs are 4-15 in games he doesn't play, which reinforces just how valuable he is. And LeBron has had 3 complete seasons that were more efficient than Paul and 4 complete seasons that were more efficient than Harden. It remains to be seen if either guy can sustain their current level of efficiency for an entire season as both are a massive jump vs their prior complete season.

[Triples333]

MVP is between Harden & CP3 as far as I'm concerned. Harden is carrying a lottery team to a winning record & turning them into an elite offense by pretty much himself while CP3 is taking apart teams in extremely limited minutes.

LeBron could easily surpass those two though if he puts forth any real effort considering the Cavs are still winning games with him averaging career lows in points & efficiency.

Saying Bron can simply win MVP if he puts forth any effort seems both disrespectful of the other candidates and ignorant of what level of production Lebron is capable of putting forth for an entire season. As it stands, he would have to be putting forth THE best regular season of his career to compete with the current production level of CP3/Harden. It's not a matter of him snapping his fingers and BOOM everyone else is playing for 2nd.

Did you miss when he just snapped his fingers and went BOOM in the NBA finals with the unanimous MVP on the other team? And after last night, since his return, the Cavs are 4-15 in games he doesn't play, which reinforces just how valuable he is. And LeBron has had 3 complete seasons that were more efficient than Paul and 4 complete seasons that were more efficient than Harden. It remains to be seen if either guy can sustain their current level of efficiency for an entire season as both are a massive jump vs their prior complete season.

Again another person not distinguishing between the reg season grind and the end of the playoffs. Also please understand that other than most, I consider him being the only player on his team opting for rest on their tough road b2b game (hint: these are generally the games he sits... i.e. The toughest ones to win) a big negative towards an MVP campaign. Proving your worth by not showing up doesn't do it for me.