Otto Porter Part 2

[Dark Faze]

I'm more impressed with his defensive improvement--that's what makes those other numbers matter more.

With that said hard to get excited about locking into this core of players.

[dckingsfan]

I'm more impressed with his defensive improvement--that's what makes those other numbers matter more.

With that said hard to get excited about locking into this core of players.

It seems like, if we had locked into Wall, Porter, Gortat in the off-season we would have been fine. Built around that and let Beal go.

We would have had to acknowledge that we are in transition (not necessarily rebuild). And we would have used our cap to bring in assets - but that would require patience.

Wall, Satoransky
Satoransky
Porter, Oubre
Morris
Gortat

McClellan was a good pickup. Thorton doesn't belong as at all. RJ Hunter would have been a good gamble. We are trying not to give up assets so Burke would have been a no-go. The problem was there weren't very many solid PG free agents. Hold tight and see who broke through in the D league.

Wall, Satoransky, D League
Satoransky, McClellan, Hunter
Porter, Oubre
Morris, Nene, ??
Gortat, Nene, Ochefu

We are fine at SF so onto the FC. We are in transition, so no big splashes. Ian Mahinmi is out. There were several good options at backup C including Nene Hilario @ $2.9M. Smith - really? Daniel Ochefu fits this mold @ $.5M.

We probably could have taken on players and picked up draft picks like the Sixers have done.

But alas, this board had so many better ideas that EG - guess this beating a dead horse.

[Dark Faze]

The FO is completely incompetent--that's obvious. Strong execs don't leave stuff like the KD situation to chance--you're never going to know if a player will choose your team, but to have no idea that you're not getting an effing meeting after being a GM in this league and fostering relationships across dozens of agents for nearly 20 years between his time in NY and Milwaukee...he should have been fired on the bat for not seeing that coming.

If he had managed to be competent and get that intel, then he could have had a leg up on the entire league by working to get low budget high value contracts.

Porter is a nice player but he's the worst kind of player to pay before you've gotten a second star. You want to pay your elite roleplayers after the cap is reached after having already gotten your studs. When you each the cap by paying elite roleplayers and busts (Brad is a bust at this point), then you can only get another core piece through scouting and development of draft picks or trades.

[tontoz]

The FO is completely incompetent--that's obvious. Strong execs don't leave stuff like the KD situation to chance--you're never going to know if a player will choose your team, but to have no idea that you're not getting an effing meeting after being a GM in this league and fostering relationships across dozens of agents for nearly 20 years between his time in NY and Milwaukee...he should have been fired on the bat for not seeing that coming.

If he had managed to be competent and get that intel, then he could have had a leg up on the entire league by working to get low budget high value contracts.

Porter is a nice player but he's the worst kind of player to pay before you've gotten a second star. You want to pay your elite roleplayers after the cap is reached after having already gotten your studs. When you each the cap by paying elite roleplayers and busts (Brad is a bust at this point), then you can only get another core piece through scouting and development of draft picks or trades.

Actually the worst players to pay are mediocre, injury prone players who have shown little improvement over 4 seasons. Paying Porter wouldn't be a mistake. Paying Beal was the mistake that killed this teams chances of being good any time in the near future.

[AFM]

I wish we could trade Beal for W. Barton and change. I wouldn't mind a slight decrease in talent, if it meant shedding his contract. I'd take an expiring back.

[payitforward]

I'd trade Smith, Nicholson, Burke & House for Otto Porter.

I know this is impractical inasmuch as we already have Otto Porter. But, we need at least two of him, and I don't know how else to get the other one!

I know... we could trade for Rudy Gay, insisting on a name change for him.

[tontoz]

Nerlens Noel....... just thought i would mention his name for old times sake.

[Dat2U]

Nerlens Noel....... just thought i would mention his name for old times sake.

Yeah I would have picked Noel but to be honest, I suspect Noel would have been better off playing C for a team that needed one. Playing Noel at PF was a completely disservice to him. Especially with a guy like Okafor. Noel still has elite defensive tools and his value has cratered a bit. Apparently he's close to playing too. If we move Gortat, I would be interested in acquiring him on the cheap.

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

I'd throw in a second rounder to make this happen, unprotected.

Also, I'd throw in Jason Smith.

Sent from my LG-H345 using RealGM mobile app

Way to sweeten the pot for them.

It's the least I can do. Throw some lighter fluid and a match in with the lumps of coal.

[tontoz]

Porter's 3 pt percentage is up to 39.5% after missing his first 10 of the season.

[queridiculo]

I know... we could trade for Rudy Gay, insisting on a name change for him.

I know just the guy to make this happen.

[WizarDynasty]

The FO is completely incompetent--that's obvious. Strong execs don't leave stuff like the KD situation to chance--you're never going to know if a player will choose your team, but to have no idea that you're not getting an effing meeting after being a GM in this league and fostering relationships across dozens of agents for nearly 20 years between his time in NY and Milwaukee...he should have been fired on the bat for not seeing that coming.

If he had managed to be competent and get that intel, then he could have had a leg up on the entire league by working to get low budget high value contracts.

Porter is a nice player but he's the worst kind of player to pay before you've gotten a second star. You want to pay your elite roleplayers after the cap is reached after having already gotten your studs. When you each the cap by paying elite roleplayers and busts (Brad is a bust at this point), then you can only get another core piece through scouting and development of draft picks or trades.

And 1!!!!!!!

[WizarDynasty]

Nerlens Noel....... just thought i would mention his name for old times sake.

you do realize he is injury prone and can't take contact to his knee yet he has the skill sets of a center?

He will get injured playing 280 plus pound centers, and he has way below average skills of a powerforward offensively. He is a energy big off the bench at best.

[tontoz]

Nerlens Noel....... just thought i would mention his name for old times sake.

you do realize he is injury prone and can't take contact to his knee yet he has the skill sets of a center?

He will get injured playing 280 plus pound centers, and he has way below average skills of a powerforward offensively. He is a energy big off the bench at best.

I was being sarcastic about the way some people were pining for Noel during Porter's first two seasons.

[WizarDynasty]

if i were washington, I would not let otto pile up garbage stats at the expense of the team. I would instruct wall not to give any easy assist to inflate otto porters value. I would give the ball to otto in iso situations and make him earn. His true value will show when he shows that he can't shoot a high percentage relying on his own athleticism. I hated the fact that he was always injured in his early years and now in contract year he isn't missing any games due to injury.
Beal is the same way, his body breaks down when he is required to actually earn his points -- rather than relying on wall to force his him man to leave him wide open for an easy clean jumpshot. I would offer otto a modest contract now and if he doesn't accept, trade him by the end of the season. He is a 3 and d player but worthless to a team that doesn't have at 1 superstar and one allstar . We have a broken superstar in wall because he can't shoot three pointers in volume at a high efficiency. Beal will never be an allstar because his injury is based on volume of basketball played. His body can't take pounding of 82 games and he stress related injuries. that is not an allstar i want to rely on as a foundation piece. Otto will never be an allstar, doesn't have athelicism, and his game is based on getting wide open looks after he is left wide open. He has no post game, he has no kyrie irving handles to get off clean shots, he doesn't quickness to blow by his man. He can play defense but he is not a lockdown defender or possess great lateral quickness. He is actually pretty horrible at lateral movement. He has decent length to contest shots but he is no max player and he isn't even close to harrison barnes, the guy we should have drafted with the beal pick. If we had competent gm and front office, we would be talking about the greek freak right now and how great our future is instead of what we are discussing now. Blame the bleak future outlook on the front office. Trade otto for klay and 2 unprotected 1st rounders and now we are getting somewhere.

Look what utah did, they draft burke 9th overall. Had utah management been EG, they would have played Burke tons of minutes and let him artificially inflate his value. Utah quickly figured out Burke was not starter material and was not a difference maker. They kept on the second unit and traded him for a second round pick instead of paying over inflated value. Otto has done nothing to help this team make the playoffs or even win a series. He can't take over games through his own play but relies on others to get his shots. If you can't get him to sign a bargain contract like charlotte did with MKG, then trade as quickly as possible because isn't a superstar or even an allstar and he can't take over a game in crunch time and get you a high percentage shot.

[payitforward]

Nerlens Noel....... just thought i would mention his name for old times sake.

you do realize he is injury prone and can't take contact to his knee yet he has the skill sets of a center?

He will get injured playing 280 plus pound centers, and he has way below average skills of a powerforward offensively. He is a energy big off the bench at best.

I was being sarcastic about the way some people were pining for Noel during Porter's first two seasons.

Good for you bringing this up!

I'd say a solid majority, maybe 2/3 of posters here, were bitching and moaning about us having picked Porter over Noel. I reckon most of you have forgotten that, right?

[payitforward]

if i were washington, I would not let otto pile up garbage stats at the expense of the team....

Whoah.... I'd say this post is wrong point by point on every point. Without Otto Porter we lose last night. Likely we lose against Atlanta, and we might even lose vs. the Celtics! Those are our 3 wins so far.

I would offer otto a modest contract now and if he doesn't accept, trade him by the end of the season. He is a 3 and d player ... ...he isn't even close to harrison barnes, the guy we should have drafted with the beal pick.

Wow.... Where to start? Otto is a zillion times better player than Harrison Barnes. And Barnes is not the guy we should have taken with the Beal pick, and that's kind of obvious: by far the best players in that draft from 3 down were Damion Lillard, Andre Drummond, Jae Crowder and Draymond Green.

.. Trade otto for klay and 2 unprotected 1st rounders and now we are getting somewhere.

I'll say!! But I doubt they'd give us Klay and those 2 picks for Otto. And the way you really mean it (Otto and 2 picks for Klay) would be an awful trade.

Look what utah did, they draft burke 9th overall. Had utah management been EG, they would have played Burke tons of minutes and let him artificially inflate his value.

But... but... they did play him tons of minutes. @2000 minutes a year.

Utah quickly figured out Burke was not starter material and was not a difference maker... and traded him for a second round pick.

?? They picked a guy #9 in the draft, then 3 years later they traded him for a R2 pick another 3 years out. This is what you call good management?

Otto has done nothing to help this team make the playoffs or even win a series. He can't take over games through his own play but relies on others to get his shots. If you can't get him to sign a bargain contract like charlotte did with MKG, then trade as quickly as possible because isn't a superstar or even an allstar and he can't take over a game in crunch time and get you a high percentage shot.

This is so off it's hard to know what to say. True, though, that Charlotte got MK-G long term for way under what he's worth in wins. It would have made great sense to extend Otto in that way when it was possible a couple of months ago. Ted/Ernie too dumb for that, however.

[WizarDynasty]

This is so off it's hard to know what to say. True, though, that Charlotte got MK-G long term for way under what he's worth in wins. It would have made great sense to extend Otto in that way when it was possible a couple of months ago. Ted/Ernie too dumb for that, however.

MKGo who was drafted one pick before beal was!!--was a severely limited player but he stayed committed the team that drafted him and invested in him. MKG could have gone out in the market and gambled but Charlotte was way to smart to let him inflate his stats on their dime when his stats weren't leading a his play wasn't directly or indirectly related to them getting a high playoff seed.
If washington was smart, they would know that we invested a number three overall pick in Otto and he absolutely has not provided us a return for that value since he has been here. He may have excuses for why it has happened but he has not lived up to an overall 3 pick which should be at least above average starter to all star.
So Otto tells management, guys haven't lived up to what you see in me but give me security and and time and I will live up to. So otto and washington sign a 4 year deal at average salary for a starting small forward in the league since Otto has provided negative value.

Instead, Washington allows their longtime rivals to sabotage the team boosting his stats artificially in contract year using the kobe bryant strategy.
http://www.opencourt-basketball.com/kobe-bryant-reveals-evil-strategy-he-used-to-destroy-opponents/

We see Otto getting garbage stats when the outcome of the game is meaningless. Then Otto takes these stats as his leverage to say, hey I did earn my draft status and I do deserve a max contract based on these garbage stats. He pulls the same Beal methodology BS of saying he believes he is a max contract player, yet he has never completed a full healthy season.
Beal has never has a 100 plus steals season, his assist to turnover ratio is horrible and not even close to 2:1 ratio, and in each of last 2 seasons, he hasn't scored more than 1000 points. In his contract year, it was only time he even came close to shooting .45Percent. all other years he shot below .43%. You aren't helping your team win if you don't shoot above .46 percent unless you are getting to line 10 times a game which beal was not. ON top of all of this, he has never shot more than 200 free throws in a season and HE HAD the never to make a public statement that he felt he was a max contract player.
I would have traded him in a heartbeat for pennies on the dollar once I heard him make this declaration.
The moment he approaches a full season of 1200 or more points, his body breaks down, yet front office strategy saw him as an allstar.
LMAO. tell me one consistent allstar shooting guard who doesn't average more than 100 steals a season? the keyword here is a consistent all star shooting guard. Getting steals is directly related to your athleticism and beal's steals totals are horrendous.
On top of that look at his total number of free throw attempt totals for each season. James Harden got to the line 837 times last season. Beal has never over 200 free throw attempts EVER. The organization using the same faulty logic with Otto. You let him inflate superficial stats and then allow him to demand a max contract based on superficial stats. The most important stat for determining max contract status is number of times you get to the line. Drawing a foul is almost always directly tied to elite ability. If Otto can't get to the line at an elite level, don't allow him boost his stats up as if he is an elite level player. Don't give a player superficial stats if he has not signed a longterm contract with your team. If he earns his stats by drawing fouls, then he deserves his money. If he is boosting his status off of another players hard work like Beal did, then management should have been fired. We can see from season two that Beal ability to get to line showed he would never be an allstar player.

Code: Select all

      
SEASON   FGM-A      FG%      3PM-A      3P%      FTM-A   FT%      OR   DR   REB   AST   BLK   STL   PF   TO   PTS
'12-'13   282-0687   0.410   091-236   0.386   125-159   0.786   43   168   211   137   29   50   113   90   0780
'13-'14   481-1149   0.419   138-343   0.402   149-189   0.788   54   219   273   243   18   71   153   128   1249
'14-'15   363-0851   0.427   106-259   0.409   130-166   0.783   57   184   241   194   18   76   136   123   0962
'15-'16   359-0799   0.449   105-271   0.387   135-176   0.767   41   147   188   162   11   54   117   112   0958
'16-'17   042-0112   0.375   013-040   0.325   029-034   0.853   05   012   017   022   06   08   018   012   0126


now you compare a beal production to a top of line allstar shooting guard. Harden shot more free throws in his rookie year than beal has in his entire career and yet beal still demanded a max contract for his production publicly. This was the ultimate form of disrespect to organization.

Code: Select all

SEASON   FGM-A      FG%      3PM-A      3P%      FTM-A   FT%      OR   DR   REB   AST   BLK   STL   PF   TO   PTS
'12-'13   585-1337   0.438   179-486   0.368   674-792   0.851   62   317   379   455   38   142   178   295   2023
'13-'14   549-1205   0.456   177-483   0.366   576-665   0.866   61   283   344   446   29   115   177   265   1851
'14-'15   647-1470   0.440   208-555   0.375   715-824   0.868   75   384   459   565   60   154   208   321   2217
'15-'16   710-1617   0.439   236-657   0.359   720-837   0.860   63   438   501   612   51   139   229   374   2376
'16-'17   106-0224   0.473   036-096   0.375   094-114   0.825   20   078   098   153   01   017   031   067   0342


[AFM]

Agreed, WizD

Keep up the solid analysis.

[tontoz]

This is where an unstoppable force meets an immovable object.