PG: Screwed the pooch

[Chi town]

That Rose poison is real... still lives on the board... now trying to infect Jimmy.

[Chi town]

Clipps show what continuity can do. They won that game because Doc knows what he has and they don't play rookies... all vets.

Once the Bulls get to the ASB I think you will see alot more continuity.

[RakimAbdulJabar]

This is the game they missed Doug. You needed a few more points from the bench. But, let's not forget that they were ahead in the 1st half mostly because of insane 3s from Wade.

That said, the Bulls defense has to figure out a way to control these stretch 4s from the bench... Amir Johnson, Speighths have to be controlled. It was a momentum swing when Speighths was going nuts.

Niko and Doug need to be successful for this team to win and hope Doug gets back sooner than later.

And, defense wise, when Taj was leaving his man, that is a new wrinkle on defense. It looked a little clumsy. And, too much switching on defense with guards half the time on Blake. Need to fight through the picks.

All of this, especially the last one. So many times it happened on the most basic screens that they could have easily fought through or even on broken plays that they could have recovered but arrogance on behalf of Jimmy/Rondo believing they could defend Griffin left them mismatched

Griffin really was the difference last night, well the refs and Griffin.

I also don't think going after Paul next season is the right move. Obviously an upgrade and obviously one of the best pg's in the league but I don't think he's the right one to go after

[jc23]

Clipps show what continuity can do. They won that game because Doc knows what he has and they don't play rookies... all vets.

Once the Bulls get to the ASB I think you will see alot more continuity.

our biggest weakness right now as far as depth go is our frontcourt. Taj and Rolo are solid but on nights where we get bad Niko (about 6 out of every 10) we are left with Bobby and Felicio. Hopefully we can consolidate that young talent and get a more stable player via trade.

[Chi town]

the "only just lose" part happened as the bulls worst rotation player got minutes over arguably the team's most valuable big man. people are raging because hoiberg let matchups bully him into benching a good player and playing a terrible player.

"lopez is a worse matchup" is an understandable argument to make, but like...we saw what happened when portis was in. it was really really bad. it's not an understandable argument to say "this matchup is so terrible that it is not even worth exploring the possibility that our good player would be more productive than our terrible guy"

I'm sorry, but did the Bulls blow a 19 point lead in the 2nd quarter or the 4th quarter?

Playing Portis isn't a solution, neither is Lopez. Sometimes, there isn't a solution. That's why matchups are important. Sometimes team's just **** on you without a reliable counter existing.

Lopez cant handle stretch bigs or guard in PNR. This isn't hard. That leaves Mirotic, which this entire board was **** on during the game thread. So what's the play here?

There's isn't one. Tough break.

The play is Jimmy on Speights. Just like we saw Jimmy D up Blake but get screwed be the bail out call.

Crunch time should have been Grant Canaan Wade Jimmy Taj. Rondo sits cuz his defender is doubling Jimmy and Wade.

[Chi town]

Clipps show what continuity can do. They won that game because Doc knows what he has and they don't play rookies... all vets.

Once the Bulls get to the ASB I think you will see alot more continuity.

our biggest weakness right now as far as depth go is our frontcourt. Taj and Rolo are solid but on nights where we get bad Niko (about 6 out of every 10) we are left with Bobby and Felicio. Hopefully we can consolidate that young talent and get a more stable player via trade.

I just think Dougie needs get some small ball PF mins.

[sco]

OK so I was right behind the Bulls bench for this one. I'll try to comment on what I saw that may not have been visible from watching the game on tv

Firstly, there were a LOT of Bulls fans, the eye test made it seem like more Bulls fans than Clippers fans at Staples, everywhere you looked it was all Bulls. Obviously by the noise they were making though there was more Clippers fans

Before the game MCW was shooting 3's, he would either make a few in a row or miss a few in a row, there was nothing in-between, he did make 7 in a row at one stage. The only other guys shooting around were Lopez and Mirotic. MCW had his hand bandaged up too, and he wasn't getting much lift on his shot, I wouldn't expect him back soon from how he was moving

In the pregame shoot-around later on, this is what I noticed. Portis was the most focused player, Felicio & Hunter were the least, maybe a reflection of what they knew was coming.

As soon as I saw Rondo come out dressed to play my heart sank. Looking at the boxscore now after watching the game I can't believe he almost had a triple double, he looked awful most of the game and the Clippers players showed him no respect whether he had the ball or they were guarding him off the ball. He wasn't fighting through screens and seemed to always go under when he needed to go over and vice versa, I still don't see this smart player I always hear about and I'm really surprised he seems to have gotten a pass on this post game thread. I felt he needed to come out in the 4th quarter he wasn't providing anything other than a few good hustle plays for rebounds

Wade looked exhausted from the end of the 1st quarter onwards, he seemed to constantly be the only one who would rush to sit on the bench for timeouts, he wasn't interacting with his teammates much, he looked so tired, but I never saw him once reach for water...weird. After such a hot start, he disappeared when they needed him but I don't blame him, the Clippers were better coached it seemed down the stretch they were ready for what was coming and the Bulls seemed to crumble, the plays out of timeouts always seemed to work out for the worst person to get the shot except for one play that Hoiberg had that was really nice that had Rondo feed Taj for an open dunk

The Clippers were playing VERY physical 'defense' and I write defense like that because it was a hackfest, from the 1st quarter Wade, Butler, Rondo and Taj just got him so many times off the ball, they were grabbing Jimmy's jersey and the refs were right there....you had the entire Bulls bench and coaching staff yelling out FOUL and about 35 fans all sitting in the vicinity all yelling it at the exact same time and the refs just stood there doing nothing. The ref wearing 56 was the worst he's definitely getting paid extra for this game

Butler wasn't able to break down the defense off the dribble, or decided to settle for shots when he could and should have kept taking the guys they had guarding him.

Paul Pierce's 2 shots off the backboard were hilarious.

I don't know how Speights, Crawford and Reddick were left open so often, it was like watching it in slow motion and just knowing the Bulls were going to blow their assignments and it wasn't just Portis

Valentine I felt bad for, he needs to get in the weight room, his body is a weird shape. But I felt bad for him because Fred kept putting him in situations to fail and then taking him out. Every time he went back to the bench you could see he was trying to hold his frustrations back, Randy Brown was the only one that went and spoke to him countless times to try and keep him positive. Late in the game it was Valentine that was trying to keep his teammates positive as they were blowing the lead

I didn't see the team respond well to adversity. This is a team on a 4 game win streak playing a hot 1st quarter and the second things stopped going their way I didn't see leadership from anyone including the coaching staff, it seemed like Wade and Jimmy kept to themselves quite a bit, Rondo wasn't taking ownership and I don't think they respect Hoiberg, just basing it on body language when he's talking

Speaking of body language, no one is worse than Mirotic. When he's off I think he's the one killing his own confidence, his shot looks so ugly up close, he really should work on his mechanics, none of them looked like they were going to drop. He heads to the bench after messing up and seems to be confused and annoyed but I honestly felt he was his own worst enemy and no one was there giving that veteran hand on the shoulder to help

Lopez was actually really good, and anyone that's read my opinion on him knows I don't like him. He is HUGE in person, I was really shocked at how big a person he is. Same with Felicio, that guy doesn't look 6'9 at all. he was approx the same height as Mirotic when they stood side by side, but he just looks so much bigger because of how wide he is....speaking of wide I met Stacey King before the game, asked him to show me the golden pipes he thought it was funny and agreed to let me record him. Horace Grant was at the game too, watching Jerian

I thought Taj played well but he really wasn't a focus on either end, I have no idea why he got a tech he didn't do anything.

Everyone is blaming Portis, but I thought Mirotics defense was so much worse, and I like Niko but dude is lost.

In crucial plays down the stretch of a tight game you can't let Felton have an easy finger roll, there's also ZERO communication between the players and the bench on defense. Boylen was yelling instructions out of Clippers timeouts telling guys to watch for certain things but he was wrong almost every time. Other than that, they didn't have the communication on defense, so often by the time the ball went through the basket they're looking around at each other OR there were a few times Bobby was being visibly mad that someone else had not rotated after he had.

Not securing those defensive rebounds down the stretch was huge, the Clippers feed off the energy of their crowd and it was getting loud in there, they looked like the veteran team that never panicked about being down and found a way to win. The Bulls found a way to lose, as they honestly looked like the better team most of the night, until it mattered

Hoiberg gets thrown out but Rivers was whinging the entire game at every single call and non call..Paul throws the ball at the ref in disgust and it hits him, Canaan and Bulls bench plead for a tech the ref (number 56) won't give it

I thought Canaan should have played more, he was really physical on defense and the Clippers guards hated it.

I didn't see Zipser on the bench, is he away from the team for a reason? Also strange that MCW would warm up but then not be out there to watch the game from the bench

Jordan with 0 free throw attempts, I was really surprised they didn't start hacking him when the Clippers made their run in the 1st half

A few Clippers fans were really cocky once they finally got the lead, trying to bait the Bulls bench, none of the players turned or responded to them, one of the Staples Center staff actually told one of them off. He kept screaming easy win and then trying to get Butler to react by saying stupid things, he was clearly drunk.

So many Clippers fans had no clue about the game, they kept calling Lopez, Tyson Chandler. Asking which one is the Bulls coach and what his name is.

Here's the part which made me mad though, that BS foul call on Butler, even the Clippers fans were laughing and admitting it was a bail out call. That might have made the difference, although the Bulls shot selection on the other end was horrible in the 4th quarter, some of the shots Wade took, you could tell had no chance of going in the second they left his hand. He was clearly tired and he didn't adjust his game. Also he had one of the worst passes I've seen in a clutch moment when he threw a no look behind the back pass to Taj that almost went off the Bulls...weird decision making

Anyway, I'll be behind the bench again tomorrow vs the Lakers, hopefully they'll adjust. Felicio and Valentine kept staring into the crowd too, not sure what they were looking for,

Thanks for the insider view - found it very interesting!

[molepharmer]

Not gonna get too upset over a loss in November to a very good team on their home court. You're not going to win many close games shooting 4/18 in the 4thQ while on the road.

Watching the Clippers flop and whine while listening to their announcers reminded how much I really detest that team.

[Bulls03]

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[Bulls03]

While Bobby, Fred,Niko,Canaan,& Felicio were all garbage we should probably be pissed at the refs more than anything. Griffin clearly traveled and he didn't get fouled on that shot. Wade probably hits a game winning 3 at the top of the key. He was also fouled on his 3. That was just terrible.

[ILC]

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He had to rotate to Griffin in the paint, he was left all alone. Then he ran full sprint at Crawford to contest the 3 and kept running as momentum carried him. Portis fails to box out Speights, but it's Rondo's fault? How about Jimmy allowing penetration and forcing Taj and Rondo to rotate? Even if Rondo didn't leak out he wouldn't have been able to stop the layup because he flew by him on the contest and JC had advantage.

[Bulls03]

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He had to rotate to Griffin in the paint, he was left all alone. Then he ran full sprint at Crawford to contest the 3 and kept running as momentum carried him. Portis fails to box out Speights, but it's Rondo's fault? How about Jimmy allowing penetration and forcing Taj and Rondo to rotate? Even if Rondo didn't leak out he wouldn't have been able to stop the layup because he flew by him on the contest and JC had advantage.

That was actually exactly what Jimmy should've done on defense. He had him cut off the entire time so he wasn't getting a shot. Taj was right there so there was no need to help and no need to run out since Rondo is in the bottom 2% in the league in transition.

[ILC]

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He had to rotate to Griffin in the paint, he was left all alone. Then he ran full sprint at Crawford to contest the 3 and kept running as momentum carried him. Portis fails to box out Speights, but it's Rondo's fault? How about Jimmy allowing penetration and forcing Taj and Rondo to rotate? Even if Rondo didn't leak out he wouldn't have been able to stop the layup because he flew by him on the contest and JC had advantage.

That was actually exactly what Jimmy should've done on defense. He had him cut off the entire time so he wasn't getting a shot. Taj was right there so there was no need to help and no need to run out since Rondo is in the bottom 2% in the league in transition.

Taj wasn't right there, Blake was too close to the basket, could've stuffed Taj and ball together in the basket. He may be bottom 2% but not on wide open lanes and uncontested layups which he would've had if Portis boxes out.

Seriously, Mo Speights outscored the entire bench, Wade and Jimmy take the dumbest shots down the stretch, but Rondo is the scapegoat again?

[JeremyB0001]

Everyone, including Fred, needs to get over this idea that Mirotic is "having a terrible game" if he misses a few threes. That kind of thinking is how you end up with perhaps the worst player on the team playing poorly in crunch time and possibly costing the Bulls a win. Mirotic was 0-for-5 on threes. Some were close and could have easily gone down, in which case Mirotic is having a good game. Had he played more, Mirotic could have made three triples in a row after that rough shooting start, in which case he's having a good game. If missing a few good looks from three is really the end of the world, Hoiberg could even send Mirotic in the game with the message not to shoot from three unless there's no defender within eight feet of him. Mirotic wasn't doing anything poorly other than missing a few threes. He had no turnovers, he was playing his usual solid defense, and he was a strong +8 in 17 minutes. Portis on the other hand is just not a good player. He's terrible on defense and the Bulls get killed when he's in the game. It was a joke that Hoiberg played him in crunch time and the ostensible reason was that Mirotic missed a few threes, which is an awful reason.

[High level]

Clipps show what continuity can do. They won that game because Doc knows what he has and they don't play rookies... all vets.

Once the Bulls get to the ASB I think you will see alot more continuity.

our biggest weakness right now as far as depth go is our frontcourt. Taj and Rolo are solid but on nights where we get bad Niko (about 6 out of every 10) we are left with Bobby and Felicio. Hopefully we can consolidate that young talent and get a more stable player via trade.

Yeah Our front court need some help. Maybe if just one Bobby or Feliciother is traded, then the one that stay can be more consistent because right now neither of them is in a rhythm. Niko on other hand is still soft dumb and might be the most inconsistent player in the league.

[DASMACKDOWN]

So basically first game all season that Butler doesn't look like a superstar and we already got Rose homers coming in to tell us how bad he is. Folks, your lame agenda doesn't interest anybody here anymore. Take your ish to the Knicks board.

Approved.

Somebody who is a Rose fan first and Bulls fan second is a Knicks fan, and will be treated as such. You're on this board, you support the laundry. Even if your brother is playing for the opposition.

Agreed wholeheartedly.

[Bulls03]

He had to rotate to Griffin in the paint, he was left all alone. Then he ran full sprint at Crawford to contest the 3 and kept running as momentum carried him. Portis fails to box out Speights, but it's Rondo's fault? How about Jimmy allowing penetration and forcing Taj and Rondo to rotate? Even if Rondo didn't leak out he wouldn't have been able to stop the layup because he flew by him on the contest and JC had advantage.

That was actually exactly what Jimmy should've done on defense. He had him cut off the entire time so he wasn't getting a shot. Taj was right there so there was no need to help and no need to run out since Rondo is in the bottom 2% in the league in transition.

Taj wasn't right there, Blake was too close to the basket, could've stuffed Taj and ball together in the basket. He may be bottom 2% but not on wide open lanes and uncontested layups which he would've had if Portis boxes out.

Seriously, Mo Speights outscored the entire bench, Wade and Jimmy take the dumbest shots down the stretch, but Rondo is the scapegoat again?

Rondo shouldn't have been in the game but it doesn't matter now. Wade was fouled on that 3 at the end and the refs missed 3 late calls that would've all been in our favor (foul on blakes shot, travel before shot, foul on Wades 3). Wade probably hits a game winner if they don't get that BS call.

On to the next though in not going to sit here and argue about the multiple mistakes Hoiberg, Portis or anyone else made. We have a game tonight and there's no excuse for losing it.

[High level]

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Rondo is not a winner at this point in his career just state stuffer. Canaan should start put him in a Mario Chalmers 3 and D Pg role while McW is out and let rondo come in with the bench.

[Bulls03]

Everyone, including Fred, needs to get over this idea that Mirotic is "having a terrible game" if he misses a few threes. That kind of thinking is how you end up with perhaps the worst player on the team playing poorly in crunch time and possibly costing the Bulls a win. Mirotic was 0-for-5 on threes. Some were close and could have easily gone down, in which case Mirotic is having a good game. Had he played more, Mirotic could have made three triples in a row after that rough shooting start, in which case he's having a good game. If missing a few good looks from three is really the end of the world, Hoiberg could even send Mirotic in the game with the message not to shoot from three unless there's no defender within eight feet of him. Mirotic wasn't doing anything poorly other than missing a few threes. He had no turnovers, he was playing his usual solid defense, and he was a strong +8 in 17 minutes. Portis on the other hand is just not a good player. He's terrible on defense and the Bulls get killed when he's in the game. It was a joke that Hoiberg played him in crunch time and the ostensible reason was that Mirotic missed a few threes, which is an awful reason.

Good point. At least Niko would've been a threat on offense if he had wide open looks. There's nothing to warrant Portis playing over Lopez, Taj, or Niko in crunch time and if we're going with a stretch big it should be Niko every time.

[RakimAbdulJabar]

Everyone, including Fred, needs to get over this idea that Mirotic is "having a terrible game" if he misses a few threes. That kind of thinking is how you end up with perhaps the worst player on the team playing poorly in crunch time and possibly costing the Bulls a win. Mirotic was 0-for-5 on threes. Some were close and could have easily gone down, in which case Mirotic is having a good game. Had he played more, Mirotic could have made three triples in a row after that rough shooting start, in which case he's having a good game. If missing a few good looks from three is really the end of the world, Hoiberg could even send Mirotic in the game with the message not to shoot from three unless there's no defender within eight feet of him. Mirotic wasn't doing anything poorly other than missing a few threes. He had no turnovers, he was playing his usual solid defense, and he was a strong +8 in 17 minutes. Portis on the other hand is just not a good player. He's terrible on defense and the Bulls get killed when he's in the game. It was a joke that Hoiberg played him in crunch time and the ostensible reason was that Mirotic missed a few threes, which is an awful reason.

I love Niko but his defense was not solid at all last night and he didn't look confident at all.

I think Fred is lost but as a coach if you look at a player and they've lost confidence in themself it's hard to feel confident putting them in.

Attitude and body language, Mirotic and Portis couldn't be more different.

I personally prefer Niko, but I can understand why Fred went with Portis last night

I just don't get why Felicio has been buried at the end of the bench