The (Where Ainges Fear to) Trade Thread, 2016-17 (1.0)

[Disinformation]

What are people's thoughts on Derrick Favors? Per wiretap the jazz are prioritizing Hill over him. They have Lyles and Gobert already and still need to try to resign Hayward. Favors checks a lot of boxes here in terms of low post defense and rebounding along with being a capable scorer

Favors is an average rebounder, which would make him the best rebounder on our team. Great interior defensive presence. Improving scorer. I think there's something wrong with that mix of players in Utah, although they're looking better with Hill at the point, and they're finally mostly healthy and above .500. But Gobert, Favors, Hayward, the spots they occupy on the court, I think it's not perfect, like a Cleveland situation. I've wondered if Favors, with a change of scenery, better spacing and different usage, could surge into being a 20-10 guy.

I don't know how Ainge is thinking, but at least on this board, we're so attached to the idea of keeping max cap space for the summer that I think it's blurring our ability to think clearly about paths for improvement. Zeller/Jerebko/Rozier/Olynyk for Favors would be a really interesting trade, for example. And then you follow up with something with Amir...

Personally, I think Favors is as good or better than any free agent the Celtics are likely to get anyway - Curry and Durant aren't leaving GS which means there will be 10-12 teams competing for Griffin and Hayward, if those two even leave their teams. After those 4, it's a pretty big drop off and/or restricted free agents (who rarely get away from their teams).

So why not Favors, assuming the the Jazz are even open to it? If you could get Favors for a package of Zeller/Jerebko/Rozier/Olynyk (big if to my mind, but who knows) I think you have to make that move and would be better for it.

[rmal8852]

What about Greg Monroe? He is going to use his player option almost surely. Would help us a lot and would likely cost not too much.

All I know is that if Moose were patrolling the paint, our buddy, Zaza would not have had 4 ORBs, 12 overall and 8 in one quarter last night.

Also, offensively, we would've had a strong inside threat that would've kept their D honest.

Not saying that Moose's presence would've won the game for us, but we would've been a helluva lot more competitive.

I've been on The Moose Train for a long time.

Unfortunately, I don't think that the organization (especially Stevens, and that's just a hunch) thinks much of him. Heck, we didn't even offer him a meet when he was a FA.

The guy is still young (26) but with 6 years experience. He's durable, runs the floor real well (he's very good north to south, just not so much laterally, which is why he could have problems with switches in our D) and will give us 16/10 minimum. He's a good passer for his position, so with the right coaching (Stevens), I can see him being a big enough threat inside so opponents will have to respect that and he can then kick it out for 3s.

I don't necessarily see him exercising his option here if we get him, unless he gets injured (unlikely, given his history) or really sucks (don't see that happening if Stevens is willing to coach him).

This is the guy who took his QO. How many guys, knowing the $$$ he was going to command, would do that? how many guys do you know of that have taken their QOs? And he had his best year statistically that year, so he's shown that he's more than willing to play for his contract and is confident enough in himself to take real small $$$ for that year.

Again, I think that this is all moot, as I don't think that Stevens likes him.

He played out of position in a really suck situation, failed experiment with JSmoove that didn't work out and he was a horrible match with Drummond, unlike how he will match with KO and Horford (he'd compliment them well).

All Aboard!!!!...The Moose Train

Just don't think Stevens wants him.

[Ed Pinkney]

What about Greg Monroe? He is going to use his player option almost surely. Would help us a lot and would likely cost not too much.

All I know is that if Moose were patrolling the paint, our buddy, Zaza would not have had 4 ORBs, 12 overall and 8 in one quarter last night.

Also, offensively, we would've had a strong inside threat that would've kept their D honest.

Not saying that Moose's presence would've won the game for us, but we would've been a helluva lot more competitive.

I've been on The Moose Train for a long time.

Unfortunately, I don't think that the organization (especially Stevens, and that's just a hunch) thinks much of him. Heck, we didn't even offer him a meet when he was a FA.

The guy is still young (26) but with 6 years experience. He's durable, runs the floor real well (he's very good north to south, just not so much laterally, which is why he could have problems with switches in our D) and will give us 16/10 minimum. He's a good passer for his position, so with the right coaching (Stevens), I can see him being a big enough threat inside so opponents will have to respect that and he can then kick it out for 3s.

I don't necessarily see him exercising his option here if we get him, unless he gets injured (unlikely, given his history) or really sucks (don't see that happening if Stevens is willing to coach him).

This is the guy who took his QO. How many guys, knowing the $$$ he was going to command, would do that? how many guys do you know of that have taken their QOs? And he had his best year statistically that year, so he's shown that he's more than willing to play for his contract and is confident enough in himself to take real small $$$ for that year.

Again, I think that this is all moot, as I don't think that Stevens likes him.

He played out of position in a really suck situation, failed experiment with JSmoove that didn't work out and he was a horrible match with Drummond, unlike how he will match with KO and Horford (he'd compliment them well).

All Aboard!!!!...The Moose Train

Just don't think Stevens wants him.

The issue is the size of his contract. To match salaries when he makes $17 million means the Celtics would need to include quite a bit to get there. I personally would not want to include Amir as it would leave Horford as the only defensively capable big on the entire roster. Zeller and Jerebko only gets you to something like $13 million so now you need to include someone of worth as all the rookie scale guys don't make enough.

[cellar-door]

What about Greg Monroe? He is going to use his player option almost surely. Would help us a lot and would likely cost not too much.

All I know is that if Moose were patrolling the paint, our buddy, Zaza would not have had 4 ORBs, 12 overall and 8 in one quarter last night.

Also, offensively, we would've had a strong inside threat that would've kept their D honest.

Not saying that Moose's presence would've won the game for us, but we would've been a helluva lot more competitive.

I've been on The Moose Train for a long time.

Unfortunately, I don't think that the organization (especially Stevens, and that's just a hunch) thinks much of him. Heck, we didn't even offer him a meet when he was a FA.

The guy is still young (26) but with 6 years experience. He's durable, runs the floor real well (he's very good north to south, just not so much laterally, which is why he could have problems with switches in our D) and will give us 16/10 minimum. He's a good passer for his position, so with the right coaching (Stevens), I can see him being a big enough threat inside so opponents will have to respect that and he can then kick it out for 3s.

I don't necessarily see him exercising his option here if we get him, unless he gets injured (unlikely, given his history) or really sucks (don't see that happening if Stevens is willing to coach him).

This is the guy who took his QO. How many guys, knowing the $$$ he was going to command, would do that? how many guys do you know of that have taken their QOs? And he had his best year statistically that year, so he's shown that he's more than willing to play for his contract and is confident enough in himself to take real small $$$ for that year.

Again, I think that this is all moot, as I don't think that Stevens likes him.

He played out of position in a really suck situation, failed experiment with JSmoove that didn't work out and he was a horrible match with Drummond, unlike how he will match with KO and Horford (he'd compliment them well).

All Aboard!!!!...The Moose Train

Just don't think Stevens wants him.

The issue is the size of his contract. To match salaries when he makes $17 million means the Celtics would need to include quite a bit to get there. I personally would not want to include Amir as it would leave Horford as the only defensively capable big on the entire roster. Zeller and Jerebko only gets you to something like $13 million so now you need to include someone of worth as all the rookie scale guys don't make enough.

Zeller and Jerebko works fine. under 19.6M going out so 150% rule.

[Ed Pinkney]

All I know is that if Moose were patrolling the paint, our buddy, Zaza would not have had 4 ORBs, 12 overall and 8 in one quarter last night.

Also, offensively, we would've had a strong inside threat that would've kept their D honest.

Not saying that Moose's presence would've won the game for us, but we would've been a helluva lot more competitive.

I've been on The Moose Train for a long time.

Unfortunately, I don't think that the organization (especially Stevens, and that's just a hunch) thinks much of him. Heck, we didn't even offer him a meet when he was a FA.

The guy is still young (26) but with 6 years experience. He's durable, runs the floor real well (he's very good north to south, just not so much laterally, which is why he could have problems with switches in our D) and will give us 16/10 minimum. He's a good passer for his position, so with the right coaching (Stevens), I can see him being a big enough threat inside so opponents will have to respect that and he can then kick it out for 3s.

I don't necessarily see him exercising his option here if we get him, unless he gets injured (unlikely, given his history) or really sucks (don't see that happening if Stevens is willing to coach him).

This is the guy who took his QO. How many guys, knowing the $$$ he was going to command, would do that? how many guys do you know of that have taken their QOs? And he had his best year statistically that year, so he's shown that he's more than willing to play for his contract and is confident enough in himself to take real small $$$ for that year.

Again, I think that this is all moot, as I don't think that Stevens likes him.

He played out of position in a really suck situation, failed experiment with JSmoove that didn't work out and he was a horrible match with Drummond, unlike how he will match with KO and Horford (he'd compliment them well).

All Aboard!!!!...The Moose Train

Just don't think Stevens wants him.

The issue is the size of his contract. To match salaries when he makes $17 million means the Celtics would need to include quite a bit to get there. I personally would not want to include Amir as it would leave Horford as the only defensively capable big on the entire roster. Zeller and Jerebko only gets you to something like $13 million so now you need to include someone of worth as all the rookie scale guys don't make enough.

Zeller and Jerebko works fine. under 19.6M going out so 150% rule.

That's interesting to know. Has it always been 150%? I thought it was 125% but I am probably confusing things (as usual).

I have definitely attempted to trade Zeller and Jerebko many times but I thought when I tried trades for players like Monroe in the Trade Checker it didn't like that big a difference in aggregate salary when both teams are over the cap.

[sportscrazy]

What is the absolute most that the Celtics would give Utah for Derrick Favors AND Gordon Hayward in a trade at the deadline?

[SmartWentCrazy]

What is the absolute most that the Celtics would give Utah for Derrick Favors AND Gordon Hayward in a trade at the deadline?

The problem with Hayward is that he's an inherent catch 22-- if Utah was willing to deal him to is, it means he's likely to leave to us as a free agent. Accordingly, I'm not willing to give up much of anything as it will only cost cap room to sign him outright come the off-season.

[Fencer reregistered]

What are people's thoughts on Derrick Favors? Per wiretap the jazz are prioritizing Hill over him.

That is being emphatically spun as a timing issue. The headline was probably misleading.

[Andrew McCeltic]

What are people's thoughts on Derrick Favors? Per wiretap the jazz are prioritizing Hill over him. They have Lyles and Gobert already and still need to try to resign Hayward. Favors checks a lot of boxes here in terms of low post defense and rebounding along with being a capable scorer

Favors is an average rebounder, which would make him the best rebounder on our team. Great interior defensive presence. Improving scorer. I think there's something wrong with that mix of players in Utah, although they're looking better with Hill at the point, and they're finally mostly healthy and above .500. But Gobert, Favors, Hayward, the spots they occupy on the court, I think it's not perfect, like a Cleveland situation. I've wondered if Favors, with a change of scenery, better spacing and different usage, could surge into being a 20-10 guy.

I don't know how Ainge is thinking, but at least on this board, we're so attached to the idea of keeping max cap space for the summer that I think it's blurring our ability to think clearly about paths for improvement. Zeller/Jerebko/Rozier/Olynyk for Favors would be a really interesting trade, for example. And then you follow up with something with Amir...

Personally, I think Favors is as good or better than any free agent the Celtics are likely to get anyway - Curry and Durant aren't leaving GS which means there will be 10-12 teams competing for Griffin and Hayward, if those two even leave their teams. After those 4, it's a pretty big drop off and/or restricted free agents (who rarely get away from their teams).

So why not Favors, assuming the the Jazz are even open to it? If you could get Favors for a package of Zeller/Jerebko/Rozier/Olynyk (big if to my mind, but who knows) I think you have to make that move and would be better for it.

So I think we're banking too much on free agency, I don't think we're getting Blake or Hayward and I don't even think they'd be great fits. But the other possibility is that keeping cap space free gives us trade leverage, especially with the BKN picks. Being able to absorb salary outright on draft night is a big advantage.

[Roddy]

Just for fun. No more problems with rebounding.

Denver get :
Ben McLemore
Kelly Olynyk
Willie Cauley Stein
2019 1st round pick from BOS (via Grizzlies)
2017 2nd round pick from BOS (via Wolves)

Sacramento get :
Jae Crowder
Amir Johnson
Nikola Jokic
James Young
1st round pick 2019 from BOS (via Nets)

Boston get :
DeMarcus Cousins
Kenneth Faried

IT/ Rozier / Jackson
Avery / Smart / Nader
Brown / Jerebko / Green
Horford / Faried / Mickey
Cousins / Zeller

[Andrew McCeltic]

SAC says yes, BOS maybe, DEN no f*cking way.

[gocelts]

I just don't see a mid season trade happening.

1. Ainge didn't part with his pick last year, he won't do it this year.

2. No one is going to want Zeller or Jerebko or Young or whoever we all wish we could part with
In a trade.

3. As far as another teams "salary dump" move, Danny won't part with his cap flexibility.

4. Any trade involving say Smart/Rozier or Amir and Olynyk will just leave us thin at their respective positions.

i know it's never say never with Danny, but unless it's for Cousins or Davis, I don't see a move happening.

[Celts17Pride]

Ainge is not giving up max cap space next year for a trade this year unless it brings back a transitional player. Cousins, Davis, Towns etc.

Other than that Ainge will look to improve by trading for players with expiring deals.

Forget players like Monroe, Faried etc. Ainge won't do it and give up max cap space

[darrendaye]

I just don't see a mid season trade happening.

1. Ainge didn't part with his pick last year, he won't do it this year.

2. No one is going to want Zeller or Jerebko or Young or whoever we all wish we could part with
In a trade.

3. As far as another teams "salary dump" move, Danny won't part with his cap flexibility.

4. Any trade involving say Smart/Rozier or Amir and Olynyk will just leave us thin at their respective positions.

i know it's never say never with Danny, but unless it's for Cousins or Davis, I don't see a move happening.

Personally, I think Jerebko could fill Olynyk's role just fine, particularly in the playoffs when you would expect Stevens to go bigger minutes for Horford.

[Andrew McCeltic]

We could afford to lose Rozier, we have guard depth, especially point guard depth. And I've assumed if we traded Amir or Olynyk, it would probably be to take back a big.

[Green89]

I just don't see a mid season trade happening.

1. Ainge didn't part with his pick last year, he won't do it this year.

Big difference from last season. The Nets were atrocious last year. They are not as bad and as more and more teams start to look worse than the Nets this season, the pick's value will drop.

[SmartWentCrazy]

I just don't see a mid season trade happening.

1. Ainge didn't part with his pick last year, he won't do it this year.

Big difference from last season. The Nets were atrocious last year. They are not as bad and as more and more teams start to look worse than the Nets this season, the pick's value will drop.

False. After Wednesday, they'll be 4-10 and on a 23 win pace. Don't let a few wins in November convince you that they're not a bottom 5 team.

[Green89]

I just don't see a mid season trade happening.

1. Ainge didn't part with his pick last year, he won't do it this year.

Big difference from last season. The Nets were atrocious last year. They are not as bad and as more and more teams start to look worse than the Nets this season, the pick's value will drop.

False. After Wednesday, they'll be 4-10 and on a 23 win pace. Don't let a few wins in November convince you that they're not a bottom 5 team.

And there's currently 11 teams sitting on 4 wins or worse right now.

[reload141]

If Favors is truly one to be traded then we'd have to go for him. Personally I don't think the Jazz would look to trade him until at least the offseason to find out what Hayward is doing but boy if we could get him AND potentially Hayward in the offseason that would be amazing for us.

[Andrew McCeltic]

We're just squeaking into max cap space as it is.. To trade for Favors and sign Hayward, we'd have to trade 2-3 of IT/Bradley/Crowder for expiring contracts..