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GT: Portland Trail Blazers @ Barclays Center - Sunday, 11/20/16 3:30pm YES

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Re: GT: Portland Trail Blazers @ Barclays Center - Sunday, 11/20/16 3:30pm YES 

Post#161 » by Prokorov » Mon Nov 21, 2016 5:58 pm

Pistolpete1947 wrote:
Prokorov wrote:
hood30 wrote:I'd like to see Kenny go away from the "less than 30 minutes for everybody" rotation....I'd like to see Kenny play Lopez whatever minutes is required to win the games...It looks like it doesn't matter what is happening on the court, Lopez's minutes is cap around 25-28...Not even 1 game has passed where he's gone over 30...Not even when team are making a strong come back, Kenny doesn't find it necessary to bring his best player in a bit earlier to break the run.



we arent losing because of brooks minutes. not even close


No but it's strange you don't even play your best player 30 minutes. If they think he's that fragile they must be planning to trade him.



brook is a better player going all out fresh in 28ish minutes as opposed to being fatiuged playing more minutes and longer shifts. i has nothing to do with trading him. kenny even eluded to increasing broosk mintues later in the year once his stamina improves
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Re: GT: Portland Trail Blazers @ Barclays Center - Sunday, 11/20/16 3:30pm YES 

Post#162 » by Prokorov » Mon Nov 21, 2016 6:02 pm

Pistolpete1947 wrote:
Can you imagine if LeBron, Harden, Curry, Lillard, etc. played < 30 minutes in a game they were losing? I'm not comparing Brook to these guys except that like them he is considered to be the best player on his team. I'm saying playing your best player < 30 minutes in a game you're losing is suspicious and probably means they are going to trade him. For Lin and LeVert they may very well be taking the proper precautions although I suspect they are being over cautious.
You can keep someone out for months (see MKG) and they can get hurt their first week back (see MKG).
There are no guarantees. If you want a guarantee buy a washer and dryer from Sears.



this is a really poor comparison. since lebron, harden, curry, and lillard all play for lock 50 win teams and curry and lebron for titles, comparing a team predicted to win 21 games ot those teams just doesnt add up. a better comparison would be saying "can you imagine the pelicans resting anthony davis" and i totally can.
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Re: GT: Portland Trail Blazers @ Barclays Center - Sunday, 11/20/16 3:30pm YES 

Post#163 » by Prokorov » Mon Nov 21, 2016 6:06 pm

Pistolpete1947 wrote:
Curns13 wrote:
Pistolpete1947 wrote:
Can you imagine if LeBron, Harden, Curry, Lillard, etc. played < 30 minutes in a game they were losing? I'm not comparing Brook to these guys except that like them he is considered to be the best player on his team. I'm saying playing your best player < 30 minutes in a game you're losing is suspicious and probably means they are going to trade him. For Lin and LeVert they may very well be taking the proper precautions although I suspect they are being over cautious.
You can keep someone out for months (see MKG) and they can get hurt their first week back (see MKG).
There are no guarantees. If you want a guarantee buy a washer and dryer from Sears.

That comparison doesn't work at all. None of the guys are lumbering 7'2 centres with a history of serious foot injuries suddenly playing on a team that is top 5 in pace.


Then KA is either not a good coach for using a system that is not compatible with his best player or they plan to trade him.


kenny is a smart coach for going with a system that may lead a bad team into getting more wins and to implement a modern system that will be important not just now but in the future.

He also is smart for limiting lopez minutes so that fatigue doesnt effect is play.

there is no system that "works" when you have the least talent in the league. we played a slow temp around lopez last year and it was a crap show.

people need to start coming to grips this isnt some playoff team
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Re: GT: Portland Trail Blazers @ Barclays Center - Sunday, 11/20/16 3:30pm YES 

Post#164 » by Prokorov » Mon Nov 21, 2016 6:15 pm

hood30 wrote:who said anything about 36 minutes?..How about 30-31 minutes per game??...Is that too much for Lopez??...lol..

Lopez is averaging 26 minutes per game, which is extremely low..Lin averaged 26 minutes per game last year on only 13 starts, so that tells you how low 26 minutes is for a starter of Lopez's pedigree....I think it's strange that Lopez has not gone above 30 minutes in any games so far....I'm sure there are team playing at faster pace or around their pace but still have their best players above 30 minutes per game......

What's more strange is the fact that Brooklyn has no players playing more than 28 minutes per game..Bojan is averaging 27 minutes.
I guess it's the new thing for Marks..That should keep everyone fresh so they can make a huge run at the tail end of the season, when everyone is tired.


Well, considering lopez was walking up and down the quart late in games in the hawks playoff series a couple seasons ago... combined with playing at the leagues fastest pace... yea, i do thinkg 30+ minutes is too much for lopez. I think right were he is at is where he can be effective at this pace. I think as he conditions himself in his current minutes you can probably ramp that up to 30+

So I frankly doubt the "pace" excuse..It's a nice excuse tho, and while I get it that Lopez doesn't have the greatest stamina, it's still extremely rare to see a player of Brook Lopez caliber who has averaged 32mpg throughout his career, not average above 30


We have also had horrible coaches and a slew of excuse makers for brook. it wanst until hollins came in that lopez started getting some ire. Lopez fatigue has been a major issue his entire career.
It's kind of funny but during preseason, some thought it was weird then and the same guys who don't think Lopez regular season minute is strange, were the same folks who kept telling others it's only pre-season and people should stop complaining about it....Well, now it's regular season and Lopez is getting 26 minutes per game...Weird.


There's no key players on any team that is seeing this type of minutes...Can we see the best Nets player play more than 30 minutes in some games??..Is that too much to ask?


yes it is. when he can handle it stamina wise, he will see the minutes. also, what is the incentive to push him? he has looked really good with the minute reduction and lopez development is really important for this team as one of the few guys who could be here long term
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Re: GT: Portland Trail Blazers @ Barclays Center - Sunday, 11/20/16 3:30pm YES 

Post#165 » by Prokorov » Mon Nov 21, 2016 6:16 pm

NyCeEvO wrote:
Kswiss wrote:
milankovich wrote:Jeremy can help a bit with the offense. But with the D the nets are playing (120pts per game for the other team), it will be tough to win even one game.

I don't think people appreciate how important PG defense is, if you can't stop initial penetration and don't have guards taking charges, the defense will suffer. I think Lin being back will solve a lot of our problems. I didn't expect us to win any games without Lin, and we beat the Timberwolves so I'm pleasantly surprised that we've at least been competing in some of the games the past two weeks. The Cavs always look terrible when Lebron rests and then suddenly look great the next game. Lin's not Lebron level but he is our best player and orchestrator of our offense so I think a lot should be fixed when he gets back.

IMO, PG defense is the least important position for one to be a good defender. (NOTE: I'm not saying that it's unimportant. Just that being an excellent defender is most beneficial to team defense starting from the center position, then PF, then either wing, and last is PG.)

Not only are the guards in the NBA too quick for any player to deter or shut down a guard all by themselves (unless you're someone like Avery Bradley or Tony Allen from a few years ago), PGs are the first ones to be screened and its the proper rotations of the remaining players that are relied upon to prevent easy baskets.

Of course, you'd love for you PG to recover from a pick as fast as possible, but it's very hard to stay with a PG on their own and it's impossible to do it when one is properly screened.

Is it better to have someone like Lin (who can actually somewhat recover from those initially screens in a relatively short amount of time) over Foye? Absolutely. But Lin isn't going to make the defense go from 3rd worst in the league to the middle of the pack. The big improvement on defense comes from how well the rest of the guys rotate after the initial pick(s) are set.


its not just your opinion, the analytics confirm this and analytics guys all also are of that opinion
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Re: GT: Portland Trail Blazers @ Barclays Center - Sunday, 11/20/16 3:30pm YES 

Post#166 » by Prokorov » Mon Nov 21, 2016 6:21 pm

NyCeEvO wrote:
Prokorov wrote:
NyCeEvO wrote:Here's the scary part: they spent 70% of training camp focusing on defense.

The Nets are THIS terrible on the defensive end and yet they spent the majority of time focusing on defense.

I think the problem is somewhat of a catch-22.

The Nets don't have players who can consistently execute in the halfcourt over the course of an entire game. We do have a lot of guys who can run up and down the court and make some 3s though. So we play at a faster pace on purpose.

However, that also allows other teams to play at a faster pace as well. Our defense is just so bad that other teams have an easy time scoring against us while we don't really have players who are talented enough to keep up high scoring efforts for an entire game.

This isn't GSW. Eventually our 3s will start to clank and we either have to rely upon halfcourt execution to score (and we don't have the talent to do that) or we just keep chucking 3s.

Now in spite of all of the doom and gloom talk, most of us expected to lose about 2/3 of our games. I know people are freaking out about being 4-8 but this is about where we should expect to be (if healthy). I don't even want to think about what would happen if Brook or Lin goes down for an extended period of time....


last year we were 30th defensively. right now we are 25th, so while still bad its an improvement.

the hard trush is no team with bogs/brook starting is going to be good defensively in the modern day nba. they prevent you from doing whats needed to excel defensively.

I think kenny/marks are smart to go fast paced and shoot threes to steal some wins when we are hot and hope teams lose focus at that pace over so many possesions.... or get other teams chucking instead of executing their offense.

as you said, this is about where we should expect to be... a 25ish win team.

its not all doom and gloom, guys are buying in and playing hard. they look really comfortabl in the offense. upgrade the starting talent and it wont be long before this is a playoff team

Oh yeah...I'm not saying that they shouldn't be playing a slower pace. The only thing that is keeping the Nets from being 0-11 is the fact we're taking advantage of our players 3-point shooting ability while the opposition is currently underestimating us.

But now that the book is out on the Nets plan of attack, what can they do to adjust?


I dont know that there is an adjustment outside of rotations or a roster change.... offensively we can change alot. defensively our only 2 plus defenders already start and play a ton (booker and RHJ). beyond that all our bigs are a liability on defense and other then maybe harris all our wings as well. We have some bulldog point gaurds who compete on D, but as we covered PG defense isnt really all that important.

im not sure scheme wise much can be done. you cant hide your centers defensively and we already cross match with booker on the better more mobile big most nights.

As i mentioned numerous times before "RHJ can take the better wing and you hide bogs" sounds good but it just isnt how it works in real life. so much is about team defense and most teams have more then 1 wing who will hurt you.

I think the best way to get the most out of our defense is what we already do.... make it a track meet and try an outshoot teams or hope at a sped up pace they stop executing and go into heroball mode or get tired.
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Re: GT: Portland Trail Blazers @ Barclays Center - Sunday, 11/20/16 3:30pm YES 

Post#167 » by Pistolpete1947 » Mon Nov 21, 2016 6:29 pm

Prokorov wrote:
Pistolpete1947 wrote:
Can you imagine if LeBron, Harden, Curry, Lillard, etc. played < 30 minutes in a game they were losing? I'm not comparing Brook to these guys except that like them he is considered to be the best player on his team. I'm saying playing your best player < 30 minutes in a game you're losing is suspicious and probably means they are going to trade him. For Lin and LeVert they may very well be taking the proper precautions although I suspect they are being over cautious.
You can keep someone out for months (see MKG) and they can get hurt their first week back (see MKG).
There are no guarantees. If you want a guarantee buy a washer and dryer from Sears.



this is a really poor comparison. since lebron, harden, curry, and lillard all play for lock 50 win teams and curry and lebron for titles, comparing a team predicted to win 21 games ot those teams just doesnt add up. a better comparison would be saying "can you imagine the pelicans resting anthony davis" and i totally can.


I haven't looked it up (yet) but I would bet that ALL teams (unless they're tanking) play their star players > 30 minutes a game. And even though you could "totally" imagine resting Anthony Davis the Pelicans did not because they wanted to win and not disappoint their fan base.
This whole hypothesis about this year is for development is ok to a point. When does playing for winning become the first priority? Brook, Lin, Booker and Bogs are all in the prime of their career and maybe have 3 years left before they start declining. To try to rebuild thru draft choices will go beyond the prime of their careers. You're awfully patient if you're willing to rebuild for 5+ years (how has that worked out for Philly?)
I think if we can add a few free agents to what we have now we could be be one of the top teams in the East in a few years. We've already defeated 2 likely playoff teams this year with brand new personnel, new coach and new system. I'll bet before the season started hardly anyone would have picked us to defeat Detroit and Indiana. The better you do the more attractive you are to free agents and the only way we're going to compete in the next 2-3 years (while we're alive).
I think you're still attached to the "experts" predictions that we're a 21 win team but it was very clear that when we're healthy we're capable of a lot more than that.
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Re: GT: Portland Trail Blazers @ Barclays Center - Sunday, 11/20/16 3:30pm YES 

Post#168 » by Prokorov » Mon Nov 21, 2016 6:30 pm

Pistolpete1947 wrote: I really hope I'm wrong that the Nets intent is to trade Brook for draft picks because I think he and Lin will make a great 1-2 punch for several years to come. I think it could be a big mistake to trade an established 20 pt NBA scorer for unproven draft picks. The majority of even 1st round picks never become stars in the league. I do question somewhat the decision to run an offense that is not based on your best players strengths. I'm a believer that you have to adjust your system to the personnel you have not the other way around. But again I hope I'm wrong about this and Brook develops the stamina to play > 30 minutes a game. If he can't Kenny needs to modify his offense or trade one of the top centers in the league.


I think most people feel that way and i think that is conventional wisdom... the issues i see with that are:

1) while lopez is our best player, he isnt some really good player you can build a strong offense around. ESPECIALLY when he isnt surrounded by alot of talent. Lopez is more the 2nd-3rd best guy on a playoff team. not the type of player you can ride

2) the type of lopez you would build around brook is a slow tempo slow paced one. those typically work very poorly when you have a bottom 5 defense because every possession is more important since there are less of them. meaning to compete in games you need to be really efficient on both ends. not really an option with our personel.

3) the type of slow offense you run around brook isnt a modern offense that will be conduscive to winning in the future. and while we are starting all over from scratch, now is a good time to lay the foundation for a modern offense. and marks has already brought in alot of modern type players

I think the plan was a good one. go put the system in place that will help you win in the future and mold brook to that offense. you either develop brook into more of a modern player, or he proves he doesnt fit and you move on from him (trade). Right now the signs are good... he is hitting threes at a high rate and has been more aggressive then anytime in his career. the minute restrictions have worked wonders in that regard. Now, his D is still an issue, and his consistency recently has dropped. So we will see where we go.

long story short, molding your offense to your best player is something you do when you have the talent to make the playoffs. molding your offense tailored towards where you want to be in 2-3 years is what you do when you dont. we can debate if we have playoff talent or not... but whats important is the FO and coach dont think we do. which is how we ended up here
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Re: GT: Portland Trail Blazers @ Barclays Center - Sunday, 11/20/16 3:30pm YES 

Post#169 » by MrDollarBills » Mon Nov 21, 2016 6:33 pm

Pistolpete1947 wrote:
NyCeEvO wrote:
Pistolpete1947 wrote:
Can you imagine if LeBron, Harden, Curry, Lillard, etc. played < 30 minutes in a game they were losing? I'm not comparing Brook to these guys except that like them he is considered to be the best player on his team. I'm saying playing your best player < 30 minutes in a game you're losing is suspicious and probably means they are going to trade him. For Lin and LeVert they may very well be taking the proper precautions although I suspect they are being over cautious.
You can keep someone out for months (see MKG) and they can get hurt their first week back (see MKG).
There are no guarantees. If you want a guarantee buy a washer and dryer from Sears.

Have you seen Brook when he averaged more than 30mpg? He's gassed for long periods at a time during the game.

Brook does not have the same type of stamina as the aforementioned superstars.

The fact that we're playing at such a fast-pace only heightens the need for the Nets to figure out how to get more out of Brook without killing him.

Atkinson said that they are building up Brook. They let him play in the second B2B (at the Knicks) so it obviously isn't/wasn't a hard and fast rule. We have a world-class sports medicine and training team with several degrees from top institutions in their respective fields.

I'm going to trust them as people with both the knowledge and experience of training/developing soldiers and athletes to perform at the highest levels while also taking the best measures to prevent injuries.

Plus, if they didn't want Brook to get injured, why not trade him during the summer after coming off a completely healthy 30+mpg season? Why give off the perception that Brook is damaged goods, which thus lower his trade value anyway.


Good arguments particularly since you didn't try to insult, browbeat, use sarcasm, exaggerate or misrepresent my statements to get your point across.
I really hope I'm wrong that the Nets intent is to trade Brook for draft picks because I think he and Lin will make a great 1-2 punch for several years to come. I think it could be a big mistake to trade an established 20 pt NBA scorer for unproven draft picks. The majority of even 1st round picks never become stars in the league. I do question somewhat the decision to run an offense that is not based on your best players strengths. I'm a believer that you have to adjust your system to the personnel you have not the other way around. But again I hope I'm wrong about this and Brook develops the stamina to play > 30 minutes a game. If he can't Kenny needs to modify his offense or trade one of the top centers in the league.


I insulted you because I sad that you saying that kenny can't coach reeks of an agenda? You're the one who has taken two less than veiled shots at the guy.

There's no evidence that the Nets are going to trade Lopez, really I don't think they'd get anything of substance in return. Brook is also adapting his game for a modern offense and has done a good job thus far, he's not the reason we've lost the team as a whole lacks talent and we only have two decent defenders on the team. Kenny doesn't need to modify his offense, his offense is the reason why we have 4 wins so far. We may have had more had Lin not gone down. Brook is also a great fit in it now with his 3pt shot, his game has evolved under Kenny.

You do not want to see what Lopez looks like when he's gassed. You just don't. Everything Kenny does is to keep his legs fresh so we get the most from him. The problem is, when he sits, we don't have anyone else reliable on offense to generate points with Lin gone. We just have to face facts, we are a hard working team, but talent is everything in the NBA and we're going to get whipped during periods of the season and this is one of them
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Re: GT: Portland Trail Blazers @ Barclays Center - Sunday, 11/20/16 3:30pm YES 

Post#170 » by TinmanZBoy » Mon Nov 21, 2016 6:38 pm

^plus brook is on board too... he has been more efficient on offense, less minutes, almost the same production... he knows he has to evolve his game to play the modern NBA style... so you never see he will complain about his minutes and rests on some games... it is good for him too, it has nothing to do if he will stay or will be traded...
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Re: GT: Portland Trail Blazers @ Barclays Center - Sunday, 11/20/16 3:30pm YES 

Post#171 » by MrDollarBills » Mon Nov 21, 2016 6:40 pm

Prokorov wrote:
Pistolpete1947 wrote: I really hope I'm wrong that the Nets intent is to trade Brook for draft picks because I think he and Lin will make a great 1-2 punch for several years to come. I think it could be a big mistake to trade an established 20 pt NBA scorer for unproven draft picks. The majority of even 1st round picks never become stars in the league. I do question somewhat the decision to run an offense that is not based on your best players strengths. I'm a believer that you have to adjust your system to the personnel you have not the other way around. But again I hope I'm wrong about this and Brook develops the stamina to play > 30 minutes a game. If he can't Kenny needs to modify his offense or trade one of the top centers in the league.


I think most people feel that way and i think that is conventional wisdom... the issues i see with that are:

1) while lopez is our best player, he isnt some really good player you can build a strong offense around. ESPECIALLY when he isnt surrounded by alot of talent. Lopez is more the 2nd-3rd best guy on a playoff team. not the type of player you can ride

2) the type of lopez you would build around brook is a slow tempo slow paced one. those typically work very poorly when you have a bottom 5 defense because every possession is more important since there are less of them. meaning to compete in games you need to be really efficient on both ends. not really an option with our personel.

3) the type of slow offense you run around brook isnt a modern offense that will be conduscive to winning in the future. and while we are starting all over from scratch, now is a good time to lay the foundation for a modern offense. and marks has already brought in alot of modern type players

I think the plan was a good one. go put the system in place that will help you win in the future and mold brook to that offense. you either develop brook into more of a modern player, or he proves he doesnt fit and you move on from him (trade). Right now the signs are good... he is hitting threes at a high rate and has been more aggressive then anytime in his career. the minute restrictions have worked wonders in that regard. Now, his D is still an issue, and his consistency recently has dropped. So we will see where we go.

long story short, molding your offense to your best player is something you do when you have the talent to make the playoffs. molding your offense tailored towards where you want to be in 2-3 years is what you do when you dont. we can debate if we have playoff talent or not... but whats important is the FO and coach dont think we do. which is how we ended up here


yep. Brook is shooting 37% 3PT and 60%TS with a 24 PER under Kenny. This is excellent development despite the rebound dip. He's honestly really fun to watch now and he seems a lot more engaged.

Our problem isn't Brook, i think his game is changing for the better.. we need to add more talent, period. Lopez/Booker/RHJ/Lin are fine but we really could use a solid 2 way starter on the wing along with RHJ. C+ or even B tier tbh to push this roster forward.
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Re: GT: Portland Trail Blazers @ Barclays Center - Sunday, 11/20/16 3:30pm YES 

Post#172 » by Prokorov » Mon Nov 21, 2016 6:44 pm

Pistolpete1947 wrote: This whole hypothesis about this year is for development is ok to a point. When does playing for winning become the first priority? Brook, Lin, Booker and Bogs are all in the prime of their career and maybe have 3 years left before they start declining. To try to rebuild thru draft choices will go beyond the prime of their careers. You're awfully patient if you're willing to rebuild for 5+ years (how has that worked out for Philly?)


Certainly no time this year. and depending on how we do in free agency maybe not next year either. I would think year 3 we would start to turn that corner. Bogs and Booker are on short deals, they may not be here long term. Lopez we may see traded this year. So I dont think those guys being in their primes is a huge issue.

I'm more the happy to wait 3-5 years after how bad the past 3-5 were. we saw what happens when you try and rush the processes. Also, we could change to a "win now" philosophic tomorrow but what would really change? Brook played 4-6 more minutes and we still probably lose all those games? We run a slow pace? im not sure what "win now" move could be made that would drastically impact the W/L column. We dont have the talent to where winning being a priority would change much.

Philly i think is a poor example and ive consistently criticized teams who tank. I think you cant develop well while tanking because young players get thrown huge minutes and develop bad habits and guys dont buy into things because they are purposely losing...

the nets arent tanking or purposely losing and you can see how guys are buying in. Young guys get time but its not just all our young guys getting 30 minutes a night. I think we are doing thigs the right way. similar to how ainge/stevens did it... only we dont have the draft picks they did, so we probably do take closer to 5 years like you said then the 3 years for them.

I think if we can add a few free agents to what we have now we could be be one of the top teams in the East in a few years. We've already defeated 2 likely playoff teams this year with brand new personnel, new coach and new system. I'll bet before the season started hardly anyone would have picked us to defeat Detroit and Indiana. The better you do the more attractive you are to free agents and the only way we're going to compete in the next 2-3 years (while we're alive).
I think you're still attached to the "experts" predictions that we're a 21 win team but it was very clear that when we're healthy we're capable of a lot more than that.


I dont know that anything is clear about when we are healthy, since thats been what, 6 games? not alot to go on. I think we are def better then i thought, although i dont think that translates into winning much more then the 25 games I originally predicted.

I dont know about "top team in the east" but if we can add 2 starting calibur players i think 40+ wins is surely very good possibility. doesnt even need to be stars. Add like a Gallinari and Korver and you suddenly have a really good looking team with shooters everywhere and defense at SG/SF/PF.
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Re: GT: Portland Trail Blazers @ Barclays Center - Sunday, 11/20/16 3:30pm YES 

Post#173 » by Pistolpete1947 » Mon Nov 21, 2016 6:45 pm

Prokorov wrote:
Pistolpete1947 wrote: I really hope I'm wrong that the Nets intent is to trade Brook for draft picks because I think he and Lin will make a great 1-2 punch for several years to come. I think it could be a big mistake to trade an established 20 pt NBA scorer for unproven draft picks. The majority of even 1st round picks never become stars in the league. I do question somewhat the decision to run an offense that is not based on your best players strengths. I'm a believer that you have to adjust your system to the personnel you have not the other way oaround. But again I hope I'm wrong about this and Brook develops the stamina to play > 30 minutes a game. If he can't Kenny needs to modify his offense or trade one of the top centers in the league.


I think most people feel that way and i think that is conventional wisdom... the issues i see with that are:

1) while lopez is our best player, he isnt some really good player you can build a strong offense around. ESPECIALLY when he isnt surrounded by alot of talent. Lopez is more the 2nd-3rd best guy on a playoff team. not the type of player you can ride

2) the type of lopez you would build around brook is a slow tempo slow paced one. those typically work very poorly when you have a bottom 5 defense because every possession is more important since there are less of them. meaning to compete in games you need to be really efficient on both ends. not really an option with our personel.

3) the type of slow offense you run around brook isnt a modern offense that will be conduscive to winning in the future. and while we are starting all over from scratch, now is a good time to lay the foundation for a modern offense. and marks has already brought in alot of modern type players

I think the plan was a good one. go put the system in place that will help you win in the future and mold brook to that offense. you either develop brook into more of a modern player, or he proves he doesnt fit and you move on from him (trade). Right now the signs are good... he is hitting threes at a high rate and has been more aggressive then anytime in his career. the minute restrictions have worked wonders in that regard. Now, his D is still an issue, and his consistency recently has dropped. So we will see where we go.

long story short, molding your offense to your best player is something you do when you have the talent to make the playoffs. molding your offense tailored towards where you want to be in 2-3 years is what you do when you dont. we can debate if we have playoff talent or not... but whats important is the FO and coach dont think we do. which is how we ended up here


A lot of good points. I will say though at the risk of being called a delusional Lin advocate and being banned from this forum is that with a healthy Lin Brook does not even need to play > 30 minutes for us to win. The proof of my statement is that we've already seen that against 2 potential playoff teams Detroit and Indiana.
The team REALLY needs a capable backup point guard however until Yogi or Whitehead develop.
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Re: GT: Portland Trail Blazers @ Barclays Center - Sunday, 11/20/16 3:30pm YES 

Post#174 » by Prokorov » Mon Nov 21, 2016 6:55 pm

MrDollarBills wrote:
Prokorov wrote:
Pistolpete1947 wrote: I really hope I'm wrong that the Nets intent is to trade Brook for draft picks because I think he and Lin will make a great 1-2 punch for several years to come. I think it could be a big mistake to trade an established 20 pt NBA scorer for unproven draft picks. The majority of even 1st round picks never become stars in the league. I do question somewhat the decision to run an offense that is not based on your best players strengths. I'm a believer that you have to adjust your system to the personnel you have not the other way around. But again I hope I'm wrong about this and Brook develops the stamina to play > 30 minutes a game. If he can't Kenny needs to modify his offense or trade one of the top centers in the league.


I think most people feel that way and i think that is conventional wisdom... the issues i see with that are:

1) while lopez is our best player, he isnt some really good player you can build a strong offense around. ESPECIALLY when he isnt surrounded by alot of talent. Lopez is more the 2nd-3rd best guy on a playoff team. not the type of player you can ride

2) the type of lopez you would build around brook is a slow tempo slow paced one. those typically work very poorly when you have a bottom 5 defense because every possession is more important since there are less of them. meaning to compete in games you need to be really efficient on both ends. not really an option with our personel.

3) the type of slow offense you run around brook isnt a modern offense that will be conduscive to winning in the future. and while we are starting all over from scratch, now is a good time to lay the foundation for a modern offense. and marks has already brought in alot of modern type players

I think the plan was a good one. go put the system in place that will help you win in the future and mold brook to that offense. you either develop brook into more of a modern player, or he proves he doesnt fit and you move on from him (trade). Right now the signs are good... he is hitting threes at a high rate and has been more aggressive then anytime in his career. the minute restrictions have worked wonders in that regard. Now, his D is still an issue, and his consistency recently has dropped. So we will see where we go.

long story short, molding your offense to your best player is something you do when you have the talent to make the playoffs. molding your offense tailored towards where you want to be in 2-3 years is what you do when you dont. we can debate if we have playoff talent or not... but whats important is the FO and coach dont think we do. which is how we ended up here


yep. Brook is shooting 37% 3PT and 60%TS with a 24 PER under Kenny. This is excellent development despite the rebound dip. He's honestly really fun to watch now and he seems a lot more engaged.

Our problem isn't Brook, i think his game is changing for the better.. we need to add more talent, period. Lopez/Booker/RHJ/Lin are fine but we really could use a solid 2 way starter on the wing along with RHJ. C+ or even B tier tbh to push this roster forward.


Yeah, i didnt think brook was going to fit but his three point shooting has been off the charts and with limiting his minutes he seems more aggressive then ever. he has take 3 16-22 foot "long twos" all year, eliminating those is huge. he is having his best start to a season we have seen from him.... he just needs more help. Unless they think defensively they need an anchor, i think he canhave a future here
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Re: GT: Portland Trail Blazers @ Barclays Center - Sunday, 11/20/16 3:30pm YES 

Post#175 » by Prokorov » Mon Nov 21, 2016 6:58 pm

Pistolpete1947 wrote:
A lot of good points. I will say though at the risk of being called a delusional Lin advocate and being banned from this forum is that with a healthy Lin Brook does not even need to play > 30 minutes for us to win. The proof of my statement is that we've already seen that against 2 potential playoff teams Detroit and Indiana.
The team REALLY needs a capable backup point guard however until Yogi or Whitehead develop.


We will see. I'm not going to speculate on Lin, but it would take a real herculean effort for him to lift us to playoff contention. i think he certainly impacts wins, but few guys impact it 15-20 wins... thats lebron territory.

I think we are actually ok for backup point gaurd.... i think starting is the issue and lin should help there. but i think yogi and whitehead cans split 14-18 backup minutes and be solid.
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Re: GT: Portland Trail Blazers @ Barclays Center - Sunday, 11/20/16 3:30pm YES 

Post#176 » by MrDollarBills » Mon Nov 21, 2016 7:03 pm

The Nets are playing to win every night. Running Lopez into the floor when he has a history of stamina issues and rushing Lin back from injury isn't conducive to winning in the slightest.

We keep Lopez fresh, we get Lin back up and running and we hit a favorable part of the schedule we can get back on course. I haven't checked the schedule but we're due for some winnable games at the point where Lin returns. Either way, why the idea that the Nets don't care if they win or lose is false. They just don't have enough talent, period.
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Re: GT: Portland Trail Blazers @ Barclays Center - Sunday, 11/20/16 3:30pm YES 

Post#177 » by MrDollarBills » Mon Nov 21, 2016 7:05 pm

Prokorov wrote:
MrDollarBills wrote:
Prokorov wrote:
I think most people feel that way and i think that is conventional wisdom... the issues i see with that are:

1) while lopez is our best player, he isnt some really good player you can build a strong offense around. ESPECIALLY when he isnt surrounded by alot of talent. Lopez is more the 2nd-3rd best guy on a playoff team. not the type of player you can ride

2) the type of lopez you would build around brook is a slow tempo slow paced one. those typically work very poorly when you have a bottom 5 defense because every possession is more important since there are less of them. meaning to compete in games you need to be really efficient on both ends. not really an option with our personel.

3) the type of slow offense you run around brook isnt a modern offense that will be conduscive to winning in the future. and while we are starting all over from scratch, now is a good time to lay the foundation for a modern offense. and marks has already brought in alot of modern type players

I think the plan was a good one. go put the system in place that will help you win in the future and mold brook to that offense. you either develop brook into more of a modern player, or he proves he doesnt fit and you move on from him (trade). Right now the signs are good... he is hitting threes at a high rate and has been more aggressive then anytime in his career. the minute restrictions have worked wonders in that regard. Now, his D is still an issue, and his consistency recently has dropped. So we will see where we go.

long story short, molding your offense to your best player is something you do when you have the talent to make the playoffs. molding your offense tailored towards where you want to be in 2-3 years is what you do when you dont. we can debate if we have playoff talent or not... but whats important is the FO and coach dont think we do. which is how we ended up here


yep. Brook is shooting 37% 3PT and 60%TS with a 24 PER under Kenny. This is excellent development despite the rebound dip. He's honestly really fun to watch now and he seems a lot more engaged.

Our problem isn't Brook, i think his game is changing for the better.. we need to add more talent, period. Lopez/Booker/RHJ/Lin are fine but we really could use a solid 2 way starter on the wing along with RHJ. C+ or even B tier tbh to push this roster forward.


Yeah, i didnt think brook was going to fit but his three point shooting has been off the charts and with limiting his minutes he seems more aggressive then ever. he has take 3 16-22 foot "long twos" all year, eliminating those is huge. he is having his best start to a season we have seen from him.... he just needs more help. Unless they think defensively they need an anchor, i think he canhave a future here


It depends. I think getting a 2 way wing that can start would be a huge boost because I like our current starters minus Bojan.
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Re: GT: Portland Trail Blazers @ Barclays Center - Sunday, 11/20/16 3:30pm YES 

Post#178 » by Trader_Joe » Mon Nov 21, 2016 8:28 pm

MrDollarBills wrote:
Prokorov wrote:
MrDollarBills wrote:
yep. Brook is shooting 37% 3PT and 60%TS with a 24 PER under Kenny. This is excellent development despite the rebound dip. He's honestly really fun to watch now and he seems a lot more engaged.

Our problem isn't Brook, i think his game is changing for the better.. we need to add more talent, period. Lopez/Booker/RHJ/Lin are fine but we really could use a solid 2 way starter on the wing along with RHJ. C+ or even B tier tbh to push this roster forward.


Yeah, i didnt think brook was going to fit but his three point shooting has been off the charts and with limiting his minutes he seems more aggressive then ever. he has take 3 16-22 foot "long twos" all year, eliminating those is huge. he is having his best start to a season we have seen from him.... he just needs more help. Unless they think defensively they need an anchor, i think he canhave a future here


It depends. I think getting a 2 way wing that can start would be a huge boost because I like our current starters minus Bojan.

Probably too optimistic but hopefully LeVert can be that guy. Bogs can be the 6th man and run the offense through him with the 2nd unit. I'd also see if we could get John Henson for basically free if they want to dump his contract.. Foye, Scola, Bennett..I'd trade any for him or even dump them to get some D.League try outs.

Get the team healthy and then evaluate.

Lin / Whitehead / Ferrell
LeVert / Kilpatrick / Harris
RHJ / Bogdanovic
Booker / Henson / CMC
Lopez / Hamilton
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Re: GT: Portland Trail Blazers @ Barclays Center - Sunday, 11/20/16 3:30pm YES 

Post#179 » by MrDollarBills » Mon Nov 21, 2016 9:33 pm

LeVert's skillset would be perfect, but he's too young to predict what we'll get on an nba level
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