Cousins to the Suns

[MoneyTalks41890]

Off the wall idea, because why not.

SAC out: Cousins, Gay, Tolliver, Casspi
SAC in: Knight, Bender, Chriss, Warren, Len, 2017 PHX 1st (top 4 prot.), 2018 MIA 1st

Knight/Collison/Lawson
AA/BMac/Richardson/Temple
Warren/Barnes
Chriss/Bender/Skal
KK/WCS/Len/Papa

Kings get good young prospects and picks and move forward with a high draft pick this year (Theirs or phillys). Kings then look to move Collison, AA, KK, and Barnes for value and let the young guys develop.


PHX out: Knight, Bender Chriss, Warren, Len, 2017 PHX 1st, 2018 MIA 1st
PHX in: Cousins, Barnes, Gay, Casspi

Bledsoe/Ulis/Barbosa
Booker/Jenkins
Gay/Casspi/Tucker
Dudley/Tolliver/Williams
Cousins/Chandler

Suns make a bold trade for Cousins, but build around Booker and Cousins.

[ImNotMcDiSwear]

Price is too high. DMC has two years left on his contract, and this trade guts us. Might as well wait and go after him as a FA - WITH young pieces to put around him.

[NashtyNas]

Price is too high. DMC has two years left on his contract, and this trade guts us. Might as well wait and go after him as a FA - WITH young pieces to put around him.

Yeah, as a Suns fan, I have to disagree with this wholeheartedly. I appreciate where the sentiment comes from, but I can't believe that not trading that package for Cousins is a good idea.

I do that trade 10/10 times and don't think about it twice. I doubt SAC does it though. 5 dimes and 2 quarters for a dollar is rarely something a team is interested in for a player of Cousins' caliber.

[ImNotMcDiSwear]

Price is too high. DMC has two years left on his contract, and this trade guts us. Might as well wait and go after him as a FA - WITH young pieces to put around him.

Yeah, as a Suns fan, I have to disagree with this wholeheartedly. I appreciate where the sentiment comes from, but I can't believe that not trading that package for Cousins is a good idea.

I do that trade 10/10 times and don't think about it twice. I doubt SAC does it though. 5 dimes and 2 quarters for a dollar is rarely something a team is interested in for a player of Cousins' caliber.

If he leaves us for nothing in a season and a half, that's three drafts and three years of pain down the drain, and back into the depths. I can't justify taking that chance, especially when we don't yet know how good Warren, Booker and Chriss can be.

To put this another way, here are the number of years each of these players is under control of the team:

Knight = 4 years
Bender = 8 years
Chriss = 8 years
Warren = 5 years
Len = 4 years
2017 PHX 1st (top 4 prot.) = 8 years
2018 MIA 1st = 8 years
TOTAL = 45 years of player contract control

Cousins = 2 years

That is an enormous gamble. Why not just gamble that you'd be able to sign him as a free agent in two years without paying that outrageous price?

Or put another way, how many teams even have those kind of assets to throw at the Kings? I can't believe I'm in the minority here.

[BullyKing]

Price is too high. DMC has two years left on his contract, and this trade guts us. Might as well wait and go after him as a FA - WITH young pieces to put around him.

Yeah, as a Suns fan, I have to disagree with this wholeheartedly. I appreciate where the sentiment comes from, but I can't believe that not trading that package for Cousins is a good idea.

I do that trade 10/10 times and don't think about it twice. I doubt SAC does it though. 5 dimes and 2 quarters for a dollar is rarely something a team is interested in for a player of Cousins' caliber.

Well said. Just not realistic to have Boogie to the Suns without Booker, Bledsoe or an unprotected 1st

[NashtyNas]

If he leaves us for nothing in a season and a half, that's three drafts and three years of pain down the drain, and back into the depths. I can't justify taking that chance, especially when we don't yet know how good Warren, Booker and Chriss can be.

To put this another way, here are the number of years each of these players is under control of the team:

Knight = 4 years
Bender = 8 years
Chriss = 8 years
Warren = 5 years
Len = 4 years
2017 PHX 1st (top 4 prot.) = 8 years
2018 MIA 1st = 8 years
TOTAL = 45 years of player contract control

Cousins = 2 years

That is an enormous gamble. Why not just gamble that you'd be able to sign him as a free agent in two years without paying that outrageous price?

Or put another way, how many teams even have those kind of assets to throw at the Kings? I can't believe I'm in the minority here.

Being in the majority doesn't make you right, it just makes you part of a majority. That is all.
This deal proposes us moving a bunch of what-if's for a definite star. "Controlling" Knight and Len for 4 more years does very little for us, neither of them are part of our longterm. Len might be, but with the $ it'll cost to retain him, he's almost as good as gone IMO.

Controlling Warren and/or Booker has nothing to do with this deal because they're not involved, which is why I do this deal without thinking twice. It's also the reason SAC should balk and not even consider it - you DO NOT move a piece of Cousins' caliber without getting back at least one great piece in return, which they're not getting here.

This is a gamble every team has to make, especially one that can put a quality team around Cousins even after such a move.
Who has these kind of assets to throw at the Kings? A few teams. Hell, Boston can and would beat this offer easily.

[ImNotMcDiSwear]

If he leaves us for nothing in a season and a half, that's three drafts and three years of pain down the drain, and back into the depths. I can't justify taking that chance, especially when we don't yet know how good Warren, Booker and Chriss can be.

To put this another way, here are the number of years each of these players is under control of the team:

Knight = 4 years
Bender = 8 years
Chriss = 8 years
Warren = 5 years
Len = 4 years
2017 PHX 1st (top 4 prot.) = 8 years
2018 MIA 1st = 8 years
TOTAL = 45 years of player contract control

Cousins = 2 years

That is an enormous gamble. Why not just gamble that you'd be able to sign him as a free agent in two years without paying that outrageous price?

Or put another way, how many teams even have those kind of assets to throw at the Kings? I can't believe I'm in the minority here.

Being in the majority doesn't make you right, it just makes you part of a majority. That is all.
This deal proposes us moving a bunch of what-if's for a definite star. "Controlling" Knight and Len for 4 more years does very little for us, neither of them are part of our longterm. Len might be, but with the $ it'll cost to retain him, he's almost as good as gone IMO.

Controlling Warren and/or Booker has nothing to do with this deal because they're not involved, which is why I do this deal without thinking twice. It's also the reason SAC should balk and not even consider it - you DO NOT move a piece of Cousins' caliber without getting back at least one great piece in return, which they're not getting here.

This is a gamble every team has to make, especially one that can put a quality team around Cousins even after such a move.
Who has these kind of assets to throw at the Kings? A few teams. Hell, Boston can and would beat this offer easily.

Warren is in this deal, actually. If he weren't included, I'd be more open to it. I'm open to moving one of Chriss or Bender, MAYBE both.

Let's look at Boston:
Brown=Bender
Bradley>Knight
Olynyk=Len
Nets pick=Heat pick
Nets pick=Suns pick
Chriss=?
Warren=?

I don't see Boston matching those additional assets... Rozier maybe? Rozier and Bradley = Knight and Chriss? Don't see them matching Warren.

So let's ask Boston fans if they'll deal Brown, Bradley, Olynyk, Rozier, both Nets picks and... Crowder and an additional Celtics pick? Guess that's close to Warren's value. But then, Boston would have a much better chance of retaining Cousins, I'd think.

Whatevs. Ain't happening.

[NashtyNas]

We'll agree to disagree. With Warren, it's much closer for SAC, but if you think the Heat pick and a Suns pick with Cousins on the team is equal to the value of the Nets picks, we cannot agree on this.
I also would rather Brown than Bender and Olynyk than Len, but those are certainly up for debate.

And yes - Boston would easily deal those. Also you make it seem like Bradley>Knight is a minor thing. every team in the league will take Bradley ahead of Knight literally, like by a large margin. I think the difference between the two is at the least a mid first in and of it self. Your comparison of our assets vs. other teams' assets seems to be done using rose colored glasses at best.

With Warren, it's STILL questionable whether SAC does it. Again, you just don't trade a superstar like Cousins and turn him into 5-6 promising but infinitely worse pieces. You want at least a star in return, which unfortunately Warren is not. I hope he will be, but I don't think SAC gives a damn what Phoenix or their fans are hoping - based on production, that offer is still light for the Kings. That's just my opinion, you're free to disagree.

[ImNotMcDiSwear]

We'll agree to disagree. With Warren, it's much closer for SAC, but if you think the Heat pick and a Suns pick with Cousins on the team is equal to the value of the Nets picks, we cannot agree on this.
I also would rather Brown than Bender and Olynyk than Len, but those are certainly up for debate.

And yes - Boston would easily deal those. Also you make it seem like Bradley>Knight is a minor thing. every team in the league will take Bradley ahead of Knight literally, like by a large margin. I think the difference between the two is at the least a mid first in and of it self. Your comparison of our assets vs. other teams' assets seems to be done using rose colored glasses at best.

With Warren, it's STILL questionable whether SAC does it. Again, you just don't trade a superstar like Cousins and turn him into 5-6 promising but infinitely worse pieces. You want at least a star in return, which unfortunately Warren is not. I hope he will be, but I don't think SAC gives a damn what Phoenix or their fans are hoping - based on production, that offer is still light for the Kings. That's just my opinion, you're free to disagree.

After that trade, what makes you think that Suns team is a playoff team??? It's not much different from what the Kings have been trotting out for years!! The Heat have the same record the Nets do at this point. Brown and Bender were picked back-to-back.

The central issue is DMC's contract. You've never spoken about the contract. You're so hung up on getting a star that you don't seem to have any thought for what happens after that contract expires. The contracts are the whole ball game, homie. You don't trade players, you trade contracts.

Losing gets me down too. Doesn't mean we should do something desperate. If anything, it should make us increasingly wary to gamble all these lotto picks away. Patience.

[Golabki]

If he leaves us for nothing in a season and a half, that's three drafts and three years of pain down the drain, and back into the depths. I can't justify taking that chance, especially when we don't yet know how good Warren, Booker and Chriss can be.

To put this another way, here are the number of years each of these players is under control of the team:

Knight = 4 years
Bender = 8 years
Chriss = 8 years
Warren = 5 years
Len = 4 years
2017 PHX 1st (top 4 prot.) = 8 years
2018 MIA 1st = 8 years
TOTAL = 45 years of player contract control

Cousins = 2 years

That is an enormous gamble. Why not just gamble that you'd be able to sign him as a free agent in two years without paying that outrageous price?

Or put another way, how many teams even have those kind of assets to throw at the Kings? I can't believe I'm in the minority here.

Being in the majority doesn't make you right, it just makes you part of a majority. That is all.
This deal proposes us moving a bunch of what-if's for a definite star. "Controlling" Knight and Len for 4 more years does very little for us, neither of them are part of our longterm. Len might be, but with the $ it'll cost to retain him, he's almost as good as gone IMO.

Controlling Warren and/or Booker has nothing to do with this deal because they're not involved, which is why I do this deal without thinking twice. It's also the reason SAC should balk and not even consider it - you DO NOT move a piece of Cousins' caliber without getting back at least one great piece in return, which they're not getting here.

This is a gamble every team has to make, especially one that can put a quality team around Cousins even after such a move.
Who has these kind of assets to throw at the Kings? A few teams. Hell, Boston can and would beat this offer easily.

Warren is in this deal, actually. If he weren't included, I'd be more open to it. I'm open to moving one of Chriss or Bender, MAYBE both.

Let's look at Boston:
Brown=Bender
Bradley>Knight
Olynyk=Len
Nets pick=Heat pick
Nets pick=Suns pick
Chriss=?
Warren=?

I don't see Boston matching those additional assets... Rozier maybe? Rozier and Bradley = Knight and Chriss? Don't see them matching Warren.

So let's ask Boston fans if they'll deal Brown, Bradley, Olynyk, Rozier, both Nets picks and... Crowder and an additional Celtics pick? Guess that's close to Warren's value. But then, Boston would have a much better chance of retaining Cousins, I'd think.

Whatevs. Ain't happening.

I think you are underrating that boston offer... But mainly the difference is that Boston could maybe become a contender in the next 2years with cousins.... Pho might not be a lot better than sac is now.

Other than Boston the teams that have a ton of assets are pretty bad (pho, philly, etc)... And if your a bad team I don't think it makes sense to go all in on a guy like cousins.

[moocow007]

Have an image of the Markieff towel incident, but in this case since Cousins is stronger and angrier, what will become known as the water cooler incident or the scoring table incident.

Seriously though, would Cousins be ok with the Suns? Is that really a better situation than the Kings? I think folks may be assuming that Cousins doesn't want to win (said nothing about knowing how to win mind you)? IMO Cousins wants to win and the losing in part contributes to the anger issues. IMHO you put Cousins in a winning situation with strong vets and he'll be a beast (good way).

[bwgood77]

Price is too high. DMC has two years left on his contract, and this trade guts us. Might as well wait and go after him as a FA - WITH young pieces to put around him.

Yeah, as a Suns fan, I have to disagree with this wholeheartedly. I appreciate where the sentiment comes from, but I can't believe that not trading that package for Cousins is a good idea.

I do that trade 10/10 times and don't think about it twice. I doubt SAC does it though. 5 dimes and 2 quarters for a dollar is rarely something a team is interested in for a player of Cousins' caliber.

No way I'd trade for Cousins with 1 year on contract. He probably wants a contender. What if Bledsoe's (Cousin's friend) knees go out? Warren has turned into a solid player and Bender has a VERY high ceiling.

If Cousins can't lead these various Kings rosters to the playoffs, he's not taking the Suns anywhere with Booker, Bledsoe and Gay next year.

I'm tired of the Suns not having team players. Despite how bad they look, at least they have unity and likely good chemistry if they can dump Knight.

[NashtyNas]

Price is too high. DMC has two years left on his contract, and this trade guts us. Might as well wait and go after him as a FA - WITH young pieces to put around him.

Yeah, as a Suns fan, I have to disagree with this wholeheartedly. I appreciate where the sentiment comes from, but I can't believe that not trading that package for Cousins is a good idea.

I do that trade 10/10 times and don't think about it twice. I doubt SAC does it though. 5 dimes and 2 quarters for a dollar is rarely something a team is interested in for a player of Cousins' caliber.

No way I'd trade for Cousins with 1 year on contract. He probably wants a contender. What if Bledsoe's (Cousin's friend) knees go out? Warren has turned into a solid player and Bender has a VERY high ceiling.

If Cousins can't lead these various Kings rosters to the playoffs, he's not taking the Suns anywhere with Booker, Bledsoe and Gay next year.

I'm tired of the Suns not having team players. Despite how bad they look, at least they have unity and likely good chemistry if they can dump Knight.

To be fair I didn't originally see Warren in the deal, and the argument was whether we would trade that package (without Warren) for Cousins. Even with the Warren addition, I argue whether SAC does it, but obviously I probably don't do it if he's involved either.

I agree Cousins probably wants a contender, but at this point I'm sure he's happy just getting out of the dysfunctional mess that is Sacramento. That's not to say he'd stay here or we should make a move without his guarantee to stick around or anything.

[bwgood77]

Have an image of the Markieff towel incident, but in this case since Cousins is stronger and angrier, what will become known as the water cooler incident or the scoring table incident.

Seriously though, would Cousins be ok with the Suns? Is that really a better situation than the Kings? I think folks may be assuming that Cousins doesn't want to win (said nothing about knowing how to win mind you)? IMO Cousins wants to win and the losing in part contributes to the anger issues. IMHO you put Cousins in a winning situation with strong vets and he'll be a beast (good way).

Cousins likely wants to win. Many Suns fans assume because he played one year in college with Cousins 7 years ago that would just make Cousins delighted to be in Phx. Doubtful.

[ImNotMcDiSwear]

Yeah, as a Suns fan, I have to disagree with this wholeheartedly. I appreciate where the sentiment comes from, but I can't believe that not trading that package for Cousins is a good idea.

I do that trade 10/10 times and don't think about it twice. I doubt SAC does it though. 5 dimes and 2 quarters for a dollar is rarely something a team is interested in for a player of Cousins' caliber.

No way I'd trade for Cousins with 1 year on contract. He probably wants a contender. What if Bledsoe's (Cousin's friend) knees go out? Warren has turned into a solid player and Bender has a VERY high ceiling.

If Cousins can't lead these various Kings rosters to the playoffs, he's not taking the Suns anywhere with Booker, Bledsoe and Gay next year.

I'm tired of the Suns not having team players. Despite how bad they look, at least they have unity and likely good chemistry if they can dump Knight.

To be fair I didn't originally see Warren in the deal, and the argument was whether we would trade that package (without Warren) for Cousins. Even with the Warren addition, I argue whether SAC does it, but obviously I probably don't do it if he's involved either.

I agree Cousins probably wants a contender, but at this point I'm sure he's happy just getting out of the dysfunctional mess that is Sacramento. That's not to say he'd stay here or we should make a move without his guarantee to stick around or anything.

Well this is quite a turnabout.

[NashtyNas]

Well this is quite a turnabout.

Not at all? You were arguing SAC should do it. I'm saying they still shouldn't. No change there - it's still bad for SAC, and Boston's pieces are still better. Don't get the two twisted.

[jbk1234]

If I'm the Kings, I want the pick to be unprotected & both Miami picks. Phoenix could keep Chriss & Bender.

[ImNotMcDiSwear]

Well this is quite a turnabout.

Not at all? You were arguing SAC should do it. I'm saying they still shouldn't. No change there - it's still bad for SAC, and Boston's pieces are still better. Don't get the two twisted.

Price is too high. DMC has two years left on his contract, and this trade guts us. Might as well wait and go after him as a FA - WITH young pieces to put around him.

Yeah, as a Suns fan, I have to disagree with this wholeheartedly. I appreciate where the sentiment comes from, but I can't believe that not trading that package for Cousins is a good idea.

I do that trade 10/10 times and don't think about it twice. I doubt SAC does it though. 5 dimes and 2 quarters for a dollar is rarely something a team is interested in for a player of Cousins' caliber.

OK Donald.

[bwgood77]

Well this is quite a turnabout.

Not at all? You were arguing SAC should do it. I'm saying they still shouldn't. No change there - it's still bad for SAC, and Boston's pieces are still better. Don't get the two twisted.

Price is too high. DMC has two years left on his contract, and this trade guts us. Might as well wait and go after him as a FA - WITH young pieces to put around him.

Yeah, as a Suns fan, I have to disagree with this wholeheartedly. I appreciate where the sentiment comes from, but I can't believe that not trading that package for Cousins is a good idea.

I do that trade 10/10 times and don't think about it twice. I doubt SAC does it though. 5 dimes and 2 quarters for a dollar is rarely something a team is interested in for a player of Cousins' caliber.

OK Donald.

What is strange here is that cosmo probably values the Suns players far less than most, and he seems to value these guys far more than I_Socrates.

I guess it partially all depends on whether or not you think Cousins 100% re-signs and if you like his attitude, particularly after dealing with the twins and stuff.

Personally I won't no part of Cousins because of my last sentence and because of likely asking price. Suns need to keep rebuilding through the draft, which is typically how non large market teams HAVE to, instead of trading for some guy to make the 8th seed, while giving up high picks and young prospects. We control those picks and players for the next 6-10 years and Cousins for 1.5.

[najb29]

Are you kidding ???? Cousin for a bunch of garbage ? You wont trade AD for Dre ,Morris , KCP ,Johnson and 2 1st RD picks to a lousy NO team but think Cousins is worth crap ?

I give Sac , Dre a 1st and Johnson or KCP and thats fair !