Grading Hornacek

cayuck · Post #21 » by **cayuck** » Mon Nov 21, 2016 10:38 pm

FirePjax wrote:He's doing a good job with the offense. The defense however has been dreadful

This is the truth. If he can get this defense turned around I will give him a lot of credit. If he can't there will be consequences with the roster and possibly his job. It's the biggest question mark early in the season and will have the biggest impact on the overall record.

BKlutch · Post #22 » by **BKlutch** » Mon Nov 21, 2016 10:51 pm

The last 4 games, the D has been much better. It started when they promoted Kurt to Defensive Rambinator. Coincidence? I think not.

cayuck · Post #23 » by **cayuck** » Mon Nov 21, 2016 11:02 pm

BKlutch wrote:The last 4 games, the D has been much better. It started when they promoted Kurt to Defensive Rambinator. Coincidence? I think not.

Sadly I think it correlates more to Noah playing less minutes and then not at all in the last game against ATL, which might have been the Knicks best defensive game of the season.

I like Noah a lot as a person and that his emotions can be infectious to his teammates, but he is slow on help defense, he struggles to defend the rim, and he is probably the weakest offensive player on the roster at the moment with other teams barely guarding him. I'm all for giving him more time and games to try to round into shape (I actually hope he is either hurting or out of shape, because if this is him at 100% that's actually more scary), but at some point the team has to move forward.

How Hornacek handles Noah and his minutes and role on the team will be interesting. If this is what Noah is I think he has to come off the bench at this point because he just doesn't fit that well with the starters. It wasn't Horny who gave Noah those years and money so hopefully he will do what's best for the team.

thebuzzardman · Post #24 » by **thebuzzardman** » Mon Nov 21, 2016 11:10 pm

BKlutch wrote:The last 4 games, the D has been much better. It started when they promoted Kurt to Defensive Rambinator. Coincidence? I think not.

Kurt awards special gift cards for good defensive effort:

camillepd · Post #25 » by **camillepd** » Tue Nov 22, 2016 12:10 am

The biggest failing so far for Phil during the off season was not hiring a serious defensive coordinator with a proven track record for this team the way the Rockets did for Dantoni.

WesleyExChiFan · Post #26 » by **WesleyExChiFan** » Tue Nov 22, 2016 3:00 am

thebuzzardman wrote:
BKlutch wrote:The last 4 games, the D has been much better. It started when they promoted Kurt to Defensive Rambinator. Coincidence? I think not.

Kurt awards special gift cards for good defensive effort:

I can give 6 hard fouls. Sign me to a 10 day.

AmazingJason · Post #27 » by **AmazingJason** » Tue Nov 22, 2016 3:03 am

cayuck wrote:
BKlutch wrote:The last 4 games, the D has been much better. It started when they promoted Kurt to Defensive Rambinator. Coincidence? I think not.

Sadly I think it correlates more to Noah playing less minutes and then not at all in the last game against ATL, which might have been the Knicks best defensive game of the season.

I like Noah a lot as a person and that his emotions can be infectious to his teammates, but he is slow on help defense, he struggles to defend the rim, and he is probably the weakest offensive player on the roster at the moment with other teams barely guarding him. I'm all for giving him more time and games to try to round into shape (I actually hope he is either hurting or out of shape, because if this is him at 100% that's actually more scary), but at some point the team has to move forward.

How Hornacek handles Noah and his minutes and role on the team will be interesting. If this is what Noah is I think he has to come off the bench at this point because he just doesn't fit that well with the starters. It wasn't Horny who gave Noah those years and money so hopefully he will do what's best for the team.

Noah is a 10-15 MPG bench player nowadays, if even. His passion doesn't matter if he plays like sh*t. Honestly, his presence seems to pull everyone else's performance down both on offense and defense.

If O'Quinn continues to play well, I don't think Noah should be on the court at all, depending on matchups. At least until Willy hits the rookie wall.

Futureisnow · Post #28 » by **Futureisnow** » Tue Nov 22, 2016 3:07 am

Why not make a poll if you're going to do this type of thread? Personally, it's too early to grade him. Especially when Rose and Noah still look rusty as hell. KP is getting better, but that may not have anything to do with Horny. Incomplete Grade for me at the moment.

Dr. Detfink · Post #29 » by **Dr. Detfink** » Tue Nov 22, 2016 3:39 am

13 games into the season, the Knicks are looking better but a ways from the team considered a contender.

HarthorneWingo · Post #30 » by **HarthorneWingo** » Tue Nov 22, 2016 5:45 am

MaseInYourFace wrote:Too early. We are not even a quarter in yet. He gets an incomplete grade but I like what he has done so far with the offense and the players seem to respond to him. But again too early.

Agreed.

I also like the effort I'm seeing from the defense.

Phish Tank · Post #31 » by **Phish Tank** » Tue Nov 22, 2016 5:57 am

How do you grade a coach 13 games into a season?

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HarthorneWingo · Post #32 » by **HarthorneWingo** » Tue Nov 22, 2016 5:59 am

I gave her an A

Knicksfan20 · Post #33 » by **Knicksfan20** » Tue Nov 22, 2016 6:18 am

Phish Tank wrote:How do you grade a coach 13 games into a season?

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I mean... Same way you grade a student 1/4 way through school. Not quite 1/4 of the way through the season, but anybody with any sense of basketball knowledge can see that Hornacek is the best head coach we have had in a while. Somebody who actually understands lineups/sub patterns and isn't afraid to make adjustments on the fly instead of sticking to a set rotation.

Really like this Signing so far, even if we are only 1/8th of the way through the season.

Jalen Bluntson · Post #34 » by **Jalen Bluntson** » Tue Nov 22, 2016 6:23 am

I give him an F for Fantastic!

jvsimonetti0514 · Post #35 » by **jvsimonetti0514** » Tue Nov 22, 2016 3:36 pm

Hornacek certainly knows how to get KP and Melo into their favorite spots on the court. I don't think both of their efficiency would be through the roof without him. They also seem to exploit mismatches more frequently too. Not to mention, pretty solid rotations considering how thin our bench is.

B

KnIcKsYaNkSmEtS1127 · Post #36 » by **KnIcKsYaNkSmEtS1127** » Tue Nov 22, 2016 4:02 pm

Typical Knicks fan setting up a voting post after we've played less than 15 games.

The big difference between him and Fisher is that he has the pulse of his team. He also understands how to malevolent adjustments. Fisher never adjusted the game plan at any point either at the end of the quarters or at halftime. This is basic basic BASIC coaching 101 that shouldn't even be referenced. Let's give him 15+ more games to grade him. How can anyone give him an A or B were ranked last in defense lol.

AmazingJason · Post #37 » by **AmazingJason** » Tue Nov 22, 2016 4:05 pm

KnIcKsYaNkSmEtS1127 wrote:Typical Knicks fan setting up a voting post after we've played less than 15 games.

The big difference between him and Fisher is that he has the pulse of his team. He also understands how to malevolent adjustments. Fisher never adjusted the game plan at any point either at the end of the quarters or at halftime. This is basic basic BASIC coaching 101 that shouldn't even be referenced. Let's give him 15+ more games to grade him. How can anyone give him an A or B were ranked last in defense lol.

We are not ranked last in defense anymore. We are ranked 27th in defensive efficiency: http://www.espn.com/nba/hollinger/teamstats/_/sort/defensiveEff/order/false. We're making progress.

KnIcKsYaNkSmEtS1127 · Post #38 » by **KnIcKsYaNkSmEtS1127** » Tue Nov 22, 2016 5:32 pm

AmazingJason wrote:
KnIcKsYaNkSmEtS1127 wrote:Typical Knicks fan setting up a voting post after we've played less than 15 games.

The big difference between him and Fisher is that he has the pulse of his team. He also understands how to malevolent adjustments. Fisher never adjusted the game plan at any point either at the end of the quarters or at halftime. This is basic basic BASIC coaching 101 that shouldn't even be referenced. Let's give him 15+ more games to grade him. How can anyone give him an A or B were ranked last in defense lol.

We are not ranked last in defense anymore. We are ranked 27th in defensive efficiency: http://www.espn.com/nba/hollinger/teamstats/_/sort/defensiveEff/order/false. We're making progress.

Before the Atlanta game we were giving up 107.7 points a game last in the league. Small steps I guess.

melo mvp 15 · Post #39 » by **melo mvp 15** » Tue Nov 22, 2016 5:45 pm

It's a solid B. There's a lot to complain about, but I think he's really stepped up and been a huge reason for our recent wins (which isn't something you always say about a coach).

I started off incredibly frustrated with him because he seemed to be recreating ALL of Fisher's biggest mistakes: rotations weren't tight, he insisted on playing traditionally big line ups, and the defense was atrocious. He fixed the first two issues as the season progressed, which is very impressive. Although I worry the tighter rotation and smaller line ups are more due to injuries than his preference.

The biggest problem with this team has been our defense and you have to put some blame on Hornacek. First of all, to not have a defensive assistant assigned (especially when you're a coach who is so committed to offense) is a huge blunder. Second, I honestly believe the Knicks are comprised of mostly average to good individual defenders. The only "bad" defenders who play are Rose and Kuz. Based off their careers, I think Noah, Lee, and Lance are legitimately great defenders- but they've ALL grossly underperformed on defense this year. KP has the potential to be great defensively and showed flashes last year, but it almost seems that he has regressed defensively. I'm in the minority here, but I think Melo is a legitimately good defender and has been for the past few years (despite his old reputation that people mistakenly assume is still true). And everyone else is either above average, slightly below average, or average defensively. So for this team to be as bad as we are defensively is probably due to bad defensive coaching.

I think if you don't count the defense, I'd give Horny an A because the way he has adjusted and improved since the season started is very impressive... but that defense is just terrible and it's obviously very important.

cayuck · Post #40 » by **cayuck** » Tue Nov 22, 2016 7:16 pm

melo mvp 15 wrote:It's a solid B. There's a lot to complain about, but I think he's really stepped up and been a huge reason for our recent wins (which isn't something you always say about a coach).

I started off incredibly frustrated with him because he seemed to be recreating ALL of Fisher's biggest mistakes: rotations weren't tight, he insisted on playing traditionally big line ups, and the defense was atrocious. He fixed the first two issues as the season progressed, which is very impressive. Although I worry the tighter rotation and smaller line ups are more due to injuries than his preference.

The biggest problem with this team has been our defense and you have to put some blame on Hornacek. First of all, to not have a defensive assistant assigned (especially when you're a coach who is so committed to offense) is a huge blunder. Second, I honestly believe the Knicks are comprised of mostly average to good individual defenders. The only "bad" defenders who play are Rose and Kuz. Based off their careers, I think Noah, Lee, and Lance are legitimately great defenders- but they've ALL grossly underperformed on defense this year. KP has the potential to be great defensively and showed flashes last year, but it almost seems that he has regressed defensively. I'm in the minority here, but I think Melo is a legitimately good defender and has been for the past few years (despite his old reputation that people mistakenly assume is still true). And everyone else is either above average, slightly below average, or average defensively. So for this team to be as bad as we are defensively is probably due to bad defensive coaching.

I think if you don't count the defense, I'd give Horny an A because the way he has adjusted and improved since the season started is very impressive... but that defense is just terrible and it's obviously very important.

Fisher couldn't even get the rotations right or utilize lineups with KP at the 5. The fact that it took Horny only 10 games to figure those things out is promising. But you are right, this team will sink or swim depending on the defense.