OT - Trump

[wco81]

Doesn't the estate tax affect more than just filthy rich? Normal people who leave a house behind for their children when they pass have their estate taxed again, after they have paid taxes their entire lives on that property or whatever else is contained in the estate.

No, the estate tax does not apply to people of normal means. You may be thinking of what happens if you don't have a will.. in that case a big chunk may go the state (not sure on details and i think it may vary from state to state). The federal estate tax only kicks in if your estate is worth more than about 5.5 *million* dollars.

It's a fake issue. There are people out there who will never be affected by it who think that they will be, and have been fooled into thinking that repealing it is somehow looking out for them. Repealing it just shifts more of the tax burden to the poor and middle class.

And $11 million for couples.

Republicans who push to abolish the "death tax" say it hurts small family farmers. What a crock, if a family of farmers have over $11 million to pass on, they're not small.

[wco81]

Businesses are doing fine in CA.

Apple tried to move to Austin in the '90s. Even before they became wildly successful starting about 10-12 years ago, they canceled the move, despite higher taxes and expensive Bay Area housing, probably because the talent who came out of Bay Area schools don't want to move to TX.

You certainly have states that offer sweetheart deals to lure businesses or has minimal regulations. For instance, OK is having a lot of earthquakes because they let the oil drillers do whatever they want, leading to damaged property in several cities.

We had more "business-friendly" taxation and regulatory environment under the Bush administration. How did that work out? Or a more recent example in states like KS where they've slashed taxes and regulations but haven't seen great economic growth.

One hopes the Trump administration doesn't have the same results but they're talking about the same kinds of policies.

Not all businesses are doing fine bud. California is in huge debt. We are not in the best economic position as you'd like us to believe. And even when businesses are "successful" they still have tons of issues that are restrictive on doing business and hiring people for good jobs and solid wages.
http://www.nationalreview.com/article/426974/why-businesses-leave-california-sarah-rumpf

CA is not in debt, they're predicting almost $3 billion in surplus next year despite a generous state budget:

Gov. Jerry Brown and lawmakers could have $2.8 billion in discretionary dollars to spend in the state budget they will craft next year, under an analysis released Wednesday.

The annual fiscal forecast by the independent Legislative Analyst's Office, while offering optimism about the state budget outlook in the near future, warns of considerable uncertainty after the summer of 2018.

http://www.latimes.com/politics/essential/la-pol-ca-essential-politics-updates-legislative-analyst-predicts-almost-3-1479324364-htmlstory.html

The latest state budget adds $3 billion more to the rainy day fund:

The governor’s signature came on the final day for him to act on the measure, which the Legislature approved mostly along party lines June 15, along with several related budget trailer bills. The measure calls for $122.5 billion in general fund spending and $44.6 billion in special fund spending, along with $3.6 billion in bond spending.

“This solid budget makes responsible investments in California and sets aside billions of dollars to prepare for the next recession,” Brown said of the plan for the fiscal year beginning Friday.

The budget ends a long-criticized cap on welfare benefits for families that have more children. It also directs an additional $3 billion into the state’s rainy-day reserve, increasing it to $6.7 billion by June 2017.

There also is more money for higher education, higher rates for child care providers and $1.3 billion set aside for new or renovated state office buildings in downtown Sacramento, including the Capitol annex.

http://www.sacbee.com/news/politics-government/capitol-alert/article86302827.html

So CA has low unemployment, state budget surpluses, booming businesses. Some businesses left to states like TX offering them deals on lower taxes and lax enforcement of environmental regulations.

If unemployment is low, why should Californians care about Toyota moving some factories to TX? Let them have the "dirty" industries.

[wco81]

Sad to see our country descend into oligarchy and barbarism. This is going to be a very sad eight years (and Trump is too corrupt to lose re-election).

Also, it's absurd that the candidate who loses the majority of votes by 1.5 million + wins. The electoral college was created to empower slave states and is an abomination.

Progressive Dem here.
Sure you dont want to wait to see what he does before we already label him? The worst thing I can call him right now is pandering and inexperienced.

And until the Dem side eliminates superdelegates, I dont think they have much of a platform to stand on when it comes to the electoral college. Though gerrymandering is probably one of the least democratic things I've ever seen.

The answer is education. But when the government cuts and controls federal education.. things like Columbus Day happen.

Democratic Party or for that matter any political party can nominate their candidates any way they want. They can have monkeys throw darts at pictures if they want.

Electoral College is a governmental thing, which would require laws to change,

Clinton didn't win because of super delegates. She may not have been the best candidate for the general but she got millions more votes than Bernie. And all those sore Bernie supporters didn't turn out for the election and helped Trump get elected.

So why should they be listened to?

[Money_]

Low voter turnout, favors Republicans all day. This was helped by both voter suppression from the loosening of the voter rights act (thanks supreme court) and from the Democrats running an uninspiring candidate. Trump got less votes than Mitt effin Romney.....think about that, probably the least inspiring candidate since Walter Mondale.
Furthermore, Hillary had not visited Wisconsin since the primary.
She needed to get to those 5-8 swing states and get them excited about voting for her. She failed to do that.
Every other election in this country is decided by popular vote. Its time we look at that again.

[FNQ]

Democratic Party or for that matter any political party can nominate their candidates any way they want. They can have monkeys throw darts at pictures if they want.

Electoral College is a governmental thing, which would require laws to change,

Clinton didn't win because of super delegates. She may not have been the best candidate for the general but she got millions more votes than Bernie. And all those sore Bernie supporters didn't turn out for the election and helped Trump get elected.

So why should they be listened to?

They sure can nominate however they want. Enjoy those election results.

The fact that Dems can cry about the electoral college and while turning around and scrapping the whole "1 person 1 vote" is the exact kind of arrogant hypocrisy that cost them the election. And you can blame Bernie supporters for not turning up, that's fine, its a great example of how hardline Dems refuse to understand that THEY cost themselves the election. Alienating voters through controlling the media... yeah, but its hardline Bernie's people's fault that they didn't fall in line after they were alerted to the fact - through wikileaks - that the Democratic party was doing all they could to prevent Bernie exposure and keeping their thumbs on the scale for HRC. Disillusioning voters and then blaming them... wow, its like they've learned absolutely nothing. That drop in white lower and middle class that shifted to Gary Johnson and Stein.. you're basically saying screw them for not kowtowing to establishment bias. It's completely out of touch, and if they keep the same rallying cry in 2018 and 2020, expect the same results.

[FNQ]

Low voter turnout, favors Republicans all day. This was helped by both voter suppression from the loosening of the voter rights act (thanks supreme court) and from the Democrats running an uninspiring candidate. Trump got less votes than Mitt effin Romney.....think about that, probably the least inspiring candidate since Walter Mondale.
Furthermore, Hillary had not visited Wisconsin since the primary.
She needed to get to those 5-8 swing states and get them excited about voting for her. She failed to do that.
Every other election in this country is decided by popular vote. Its time we look at that again.

The Hillary campaign dramatically failed across the board. They lost in the present when the stakes were never higher. They've jeopardized the future by alienating not only "new" Dems who came in to vote for Bernie, but a lot of progressive Dems who were looking for something different than business as usual.

And its only exacerbated by people in the same party who refuse to understand that the establishment Dems - the ones who ran every aspect of the primary and general - failed them, and look to excuse their actions by blaming another group.

[shazam_guy]

Mylie:

Remember the 50s, with the thriving (white, at least) middle class? High taxes on the rich. VERY high. Worked fine.


http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2015/nov/15/bernie-s/income-tax-rates-were-90-percent-under-eisenhower-/

[Black Jack]

Sad to see our country descend into oligarchy and barbarism. This is going to be a very sad eight years (and Trump is too corrupt to lose re-election).

Also, it's absurd that the candidate who loses the majority of votes by 1.5 million + wins. The electoral college was created to empower slave states and is an abomination.

Progressive Dem here.
Sure you dont want to wait to see what he does before we already label him? The worst thing I can call him right now is pandering and inexperienced.

And until the Dem side eliminates superdelegates, I dont think they have much of a platform to stand on when it comes to the electoral college. Though gerrymandering is probably one of the least democratic things I've ever seen.

The answer is education. But when the government cuts and controls federal education.. things like Columbus Day happen.

Democratic Party or for that matter any political party can nominate their candidates any way they want. They can have monkeys throw darts at pictures if they want.

Electoral College is a governmental thing, which would require laws to change,

Clinton didn't win because of super delegates. She may not have been the best candidate for the general but she got millions more votes than Bernie. And all those sore Bernie supporters didn't turn out for the election and helped Trump get elected.

So why should they be listened to?

Well if the Democratic party wants to get out of a situation where the GOP controls the entire federal government and 33 of the 50 states, maybe they should consider listening to voters' concerns. Of course they could just lob insults at all the Bernie supporter types and go to more cocktail parties with billionaires. How's that worked out?

[wco81]

So what are you saying, because they didn't nominate Bernie they and the country deserve president Trump?

They live in this country too. The younger Bernie voters are going to have to deal with Trump's Supreme Court for a lot longer than most people.

Hope that fit they pitched by not turning out and getting Trump elected was worth it.

[FNQ]

So what are you saying, because they didn't nominate Bernie they and the country deserve president Trump?

They live in this country too. The younger Bernie voters are going to have to deal with Trump's Supreme Court for a lot longer than most people.

Hope that fit they pitched by not turning out and getting Trump elected was worth it.

Could have predicted this response.

It completely misses the mark on what's being said. Mostly, that Dems take no responsibility for what they did wrong, heaping blame on anyone else they can, and then are left open-mouthed when they lose. The arrogance is just staggering.

There were plenty of scenarios where Bernie doesnt get the nomination and this doesn't happen. But the one thing they could have done to mitigate their total arrogance (we know better) and corruption (ends justify the means attitude) was to acknowledge both verbally and via actions that they deliberately misled a large base of their party - 43.6% of them, to be specific. Instead once these allegations and subsequent evidence came out that they did undermine Bernie deliberately, they denied it, refused to own up to it, continued to let the extremely biased Donna Brazille head the chair after the extremely biased Debbie Wasserman Schultz resigned due to afformentioned bias and corruption, and essentially ignored the base they alienated.

Well unfortunately for them, midwest and east coast progressive white folk (along with other ethnicities, but most especially this demo) decided to vote for 3rd party or not vote. They were dared to do this by the people in charge of the DNC. And then when they actually follow through on it, it's their fault, not the people in charge of the campaign, not the combative HRC supporters who kept saying they didnt need the progressive vote, and certainly not the candidate who refused to reach out and address the crap in the primaries.

You made your bed. Lie in it.

[wco81]

No the fault lies with the voters.

They should be voting their best interests, not worry about punishing the DNC or whatever they think they were doing.

If they supported Bernie in the first place, the last thing they should have wanted was to see Trump win.

But okay, you Bernie guys are so pure that you were interested more in getting retribution to the DNC than to see the ideas and policies you support get crushed by Trump.

[turk3d]

No the fault lies with the voters.

They should be voting their best interests, not worry about punishing the DNC or whatever they think they were doing.

If they supported Bernie in the first place, the last thing they should have wanted was to see Trump win.

But okay, you Bernie guys are so pure that you were interested more in getting retribution to the DNC than to see the ideas and policies you support get crushed by Trump.

Prooblem is, with all the lieing going on in both parties, it was hard to figure who really would act on their best interests once they got in office. Many voters attitudes seemed to be more or less acrimonious this election which you really can't blame them for.

[FNQ]

No the fault lies with the voters.

They should be voting their best interests, not worry about punishing the DNC or whatever they think they were doing.

If they supported Bernie in the first place, the last thing they should have wanted was to see Trump win.

But okay, you Bernie guys are so pure that you were interested more in getting retribution to the DNC than to see the ideas and policies you support get crushed by Trump.

Unreal.

It's the voters fault if the party fails, not the party itself. That kind of cognitive dissonance is just.. amazing. For the record, I personally didnt Bernie or bust, but your tone deaf attitude to the real problems in the DNC is exactly why they failed, and if it continues, why they will fail again. If you lose the trust of the voters, they will not vote for you, because they do not believe you have their best interests at heart. As much as Trump's narrative was divisive, he showed an interest in uplifting the middle class and rallying/pandering to them. He made it known that he valued their opinions. The GOP made it known by allowing Trump to have the nomination that regardless of whether or not they agreed, they valued the will of their party members. So the GOP succeeded and the DNC failed. Simple as that. Your denial does not change this.

Using your incredibly slanted narrative against you: would Bernie people have needed to get retribution if the DNC followed their own rules and kept the playing field level? Cause and effect. No matter how you try and spin it, primary blame goes to the people who's arrogance and corruption caused voters to be turned off. Period.

[floppymoose]

Not saying a level playing field intra-party wouldn't be great and all, but since when has any major party had one? Why call out the Dem party establishment now on this? This is not new. You aren't going to get a level playing field. Your best plan is to gain control of the party and get your candidate the advantage. Still might not work though... just ask the Repubs.

[mos_def]

No the fault lies with the voters.

They should be voting their best interests, not worry about punishing the DNC or whatever they think they were doing.

If they supported Bernie in the first place, the last thing they should have wanted was to see Trump win.

But okay, you Bernie guys are so pure that you were interested more in getting retribution to the DNC than to see the ideas and policies you support get crushed by Trump.

Unreal.

It's the voters fault if the party fails, not the party itself. That kind of cognitive dissonance is just.. amazing. For the record, I personally didnt Bernie or bust, but your tone deaf attitude to the real problems in the DNC is exactly why they failed, and if it continues, why they will fail again. If you lose the trust of the voters, they will not vote for you, because they do not believe you have their best interests at heart. As much as Trump's narrative was divisive, he showed an interest in uplifting the middle class and rallying/pandering to them. He made it known that he valued their opinions. The GOP made it known by allowing Trump to have the nomination that regardless of whether or not they agreed, they valued the will of their party members. So the GOP succeeded and the DNC failed. Simple as that. Your denial does not change this.

Using your incredibly slanted narrative against you: would Bernie people have needed to get retribution if the DNC followed their own rules and kept the playing field level? Cause and effect. No matter how you try and spin it, primary blame goes to the people who's arrogance and corruption caused voters to be turned off. Period.

Hawaii Congresswoman Tulsi Gabbard talked to Trump. I read she was listed as Bernie's VP in California write-in. I don't live in Cali to know if that is true though

[FNQ]

No the fault lies with the voters.

They should be voting their best interests, not worry about punishing the DNC or whatever they think they were doing.

If they supported Bernie in the first place, the last thing they should have wanted was to see Trump win.

But okay, you Bernie guys are so pure that you were interested more in getting retribution to the DNC than to see the ideas and policies you support get crushed by Trump.

Unreal.

It's the voters fault if the party fails, not the party itself. That kind of cognitive dissonance is just.. amazing. For the record, I personally didnt Bernie or bust, but your tone deaf attitude to the real problems in the DNC is exactly why they failed, and if it continues, why they will fail again. If you lose the trust of the voters, they will not vote for you, because they do not believe you have their best interests at heart. As much as Trump's narrative was divisive, he showed an interest in uplifting the middle class and rallying/pandering to them. He made it known that he valued their opinions. The GOP made it known by allowing Trump to have the nomination that regardless of whether or not they agreed, they valued the will of their party members. So the GOP succeeded and the DNC failed. Simple as that. Your denial does not change this.

Using your incredibly slanted narrative against you: would Bernie people have needed to get retribution if the DNC followed their own rules and kept the playing field level? Cause and effect. No matter how you try and spin it, primary blame goes to the people who's arrogance and corruption caused voters to be turned off. Period.

Hawaii Congresswoman Tulsi Gabbard talked to Trump. I read she was listed as Bernie's VP in California write-in. I don't live in Cali to know if that is true though

She did talk to Trump but I dunno about the other part. I dont care for write-ins, never was an option for me. But I did see some articles saying that he was sponsored in CA and it was Bernie/Tulsi. That would be awesome in 2020..

[FNQ]

Not saying a level playing field intra-party wouldn't be great and all, but since when has any major party had one? Why call out the Dem party establishment now on this? This is not new. You aren't going to get a level playing field. Your best plan is to gain control of the party and get your candidate the advantage. Still might not work though... just ask the Repubs.

When it's exposed as thoroughly as it was this cycle and then still denied, that's an issue.

Of course, rule #1 is that the DNC remains neutral in the primaries. It's literally in their charter. That's why 3 prominent people in the party resigned. And while expecting 100% neutrality is a pipe dream (I guess politicians can't all be as moral as Tulsi Gabbard), a full-on attack against someone who was rallying the party and converting a lot of independents has to be one of the single dumbest political strategies I've ever seen

[mos_def]

Sad to see our country descend into oligarchy and barbarism. This is going to be a very sad eight years (and Trump is too corrupt to lose re-election).

Also, it's absurd that the candidate who loses the majority of votes by 1.5 million + wins. The electoral college was created to empower slave states and is an abomination.

Progressive Dem here.
Sure you dont want to wait to see what he does before we already label him? The worst thing I can call him right now is pandering and inexperienced.

And until the Dem side eliminates superdelegates, I dont think they have much of a platform to stand on when it comes to the electoral college. Though gerrymandering is probably one of the least democratic things I've ever seen.

The answer is education. But when the government cuts and controls federal education.. things like Columbus Day happen.

Are you paying attention? He's picked racists and crazies for his key posts. It's not even a joke, we're headed into a buzzsaw full speed ahead.

People are in denial about what's about to happen, these guys aren't playing.

What racists (pleural) are you referring to? Exactly, what incidents are you referring to?

Trump just hired Nikki Haley, who is Hindi, as UN ambassador

[Black Jack]

Progressive Dem here.
Sure you dont want to wait to see what he does before we already label him? The worst thing I can call him right now is pandering and inexperienced.

And until the Dem side eliminates superdelegates, I dont think they have much of a platform to stand on when it comes to the electoral college. Though gerrymandering is probably one of the least democratic things I've ever seen.

The answer is education. But when the government cuts and controls federal education.. things like Columbus Day happen.

Are you paying attention? He's picked racists and crazies for his key posts. It's not even a joke, we're headed into a buzzsaw full speed ahead.

People are in denial about what's about to happen, these guys aren't playing.

What racists (pleural) are you referring to? Exactly, what incidents are you referring to?

Trump just hired Nikki Haley, who is Hindi, as UN ambassador

First thing, Haley isn't Hindi her parents are.

Flynn is straight up insane, Obama had to fire him because of that. Flynn is incredibly bigoted towards muslims. Bannon is racist, it's documented from his divorce and from the cesspool he made Breitbart into. Jeff Sessions is a bigot and couldn't get approved by the Senate for a judgeship in freaking 1983 because of that. And Trump made him ATTORNEY GENERAL, which is a completely inappropriate position for a racist.

I could go on but it's all too well documented to bother.

[Impuniti]

Hillary fans still blaming the voters? Jesus, do you guys ever get tired of blaming everyone? I don't think I've ever seen so many adults act like children in my lifetime as I did when she actually lost. I also think one of the examples for hubris in the dictionary from now on should be the DNC and Hillary before it was announced who won the POTUS election for 2016.