OT - Trump

[FNQ]

Progressive Dem here.
Sure you dont want to wait to see what he does before we already label him? The worst thing I can call him right now is pandering and inexperienced.

And until the Dem side eliminates superdelegates, I dont think they have much of a platform to stand on when it comes to the electoral college. Though gerrymandering is probably one of the least democratic things I've ever seen.

The answer is education. But when the government cuts and controls federal education.. things like Columbus Day happen.

Are you paying attention? He's picked racists and crazies for his key posts. It's not even a joke, we're headed into a buzzsaw full speed ahead.

People are in denial about what's about to happen, these guys aren't playing.

What racists (pleural) are you referring to? Exactly, what incidents are you referring to?

Trump just hired Nikki Haley, who is Hindi, as UN ambassador

Steve Bannon, the Breitbart editor. Under his direction, Breitbart went from a right-leaning news source (one that, by all accounts, despised nationalism and racism) and turned into an alt-right leaning news source that uses white nationalism as a legitimate counterpunch to political correctness. (editorial: PC is annoying but not nearly as harmful)

Jeff Sessions, a man who was deemed to racist to be a judge. Allegedly called a black attorney "boy" several times, suggested a white attorney representing a black man to be a race traitor, said that his only problem with the KKK was their drug use. He's the attorney general now. He claimed they were all in jest.. so there's reason to be concerned and there's still reason to dismiss it, and people lean one way or the other. I think stating either as fact is letting your bias do the talking. That said, picking someone to be attorney general with that kind of stain on his record isn't comforting.

Michael Flynn, a man who said - direct quote, so can't be misconstrued - that Islam was a "vicious cancer inside the body of 1.7 billion people" that needed to be "excised". Not racism, if we're being technical, but definitely intolerant and bigoted. Because if 1.7 billion people really wanted to take down America, as if that were the religion's goal.. they probably could. Keeping in mind that 3.3m Muslims live in America already, a mere 1% of the population.

So even as I say "wait and see" to what this regime brings us, to not acknowledge these people's pasts and point to one diverse appointment as a proof against white Christian nationalism, that doesn't fly to me.

[FNQ]

Are you paying attention? He's picked racists and crazies for his key posts. It's not even a joke, we're headed into a buzzsaw full speed ahead.

People are in denial about what's about to happen, these guys aren't playing.

They still can't do very much without Congress approval. And if they do start going crazy at these posts, then the administration will collapse and/or we will have a new president next cycle. There's no going back at this point.

But being combative before the presidency even starts is a great way to further push the gap. The middle and lower class should be looking to unify, through education, and using their numbers to take back the country from political elites who are largely unaffected by the laws they enact. The protests do nothing. The rhetoric does nothing. It's what they [try to] accomplish that matters. If they try to accomplish something racist or misogynistic, then rally against them. Pre-rallying does nothing but stoke the flame.

We'll see about that.

To be completely honest, I adapt this mindset because of my old job.. in the medical field you have to have a 'ready to be wrong' mindset, which means if you don't agree with a treatment course laid out by a doctor or fellow trainer, you have to go against your nature and plan that it works out.

Similarly if you lay out a treatment plan you think is great, you also have to make a plan for if it doesnt work out. It sounds common sense-y, and a lot of people *say* they do it, but actually doing it is a whole other thing. It's literally fighting against your own mindset. Anyways, that's why I'm willing to let it all play out before going in on the administration. Also, because the people defending it right now are the types of people that Dems will need to convert back to blue if we want to make this country blue again.. the working class is the key to victory.

[Black Jack]

Hillary fans still blaming the voters? Jesus, do you guys ever get tired of blaming everyone? I don't think I've ever seen so many adults act like children in my lifetime as I did when she actually lost. I also think one of the examples for hubris in the dictionary from now on should be the DNC and Hillary before it was announced who won the POTUS election for 2016.

Hillary got 2 million more votes than Trump, still counting. And the election is January 19. Trump can keep on picking extremists for key positions and urging foreign leaders to help out his businesses, if he keeps it up don't be surprised if the electoral college decides to elect a sane republican like Kasich.

[Mylie10]

I thought I heard that nearly a million or two million illegal aliens voted. I wonder how that skews the end results.

Edit: I just read that in 2008 it was roughly 512,000 non citizens who voted. So the one million number is probably way to high. But I think i heard that based on Obama's open outreach to illegals and voting they assumed the numbers may climb higher.

[FNQ]

Hillary fans still blaming the voters? Jesus, do you guys ever get tired of blaming everyone? I don't think I've ever seen so many adults act like children in my lifetime as I did when she actually lost. I also think one of the examples for hubris in the dictionary from now on should be the DNC and Hillary before it was announced who won the POTUS election for 2016.

Hillary got 2 million more votes than Trump, still counting. And the election is January 19. Trump can keep on picking extremists for key positions and urging foreign leaders to help out his businesses, if he keeps it up don't be surprised if the electoral college decides to elect a sane republican like Kasich.

That's how civil war starts

[FNQ]

I thought I heard that nearly a million or two million illegal aliens voted. I wonder how that skews the end results.

Edit: I just read that in 2008 it was roughly 512,000 non citizens who voted. So the one million number is probably way to high. But I think i heard that based on Obama's open outreach to illegals and voting they assumed the numbers may climb higher.

And I'd wager that just as many dead people voted as well, if not more. In fact as one of my good friends who works in a nursing home noted, almost every single one is vote by mail, and most of them do not have the functional capacity to know what they are doing day to day, much less vote. Yet all of them vote. How many of their votes are actually their children/relatives voting for them? Not to mention relatives who collect the mail of deceased relatives and then use their ballots.

There's a ton that skews results but I dont think there's any evidence it benefits one side or another.

[Mylie10]

That stuff is crazy. I don't get how people can bring themselves to do it.

Have you seen the video of the Dem lady stuffing the ballot for Hillary and against Bernie? It makes my skin crawl, and I just don't get it. The poor lady watching the door, while the other lady stuff the box, looks like she's gonna get sick.

[Black Jack]

Hillary fans still blaming the voters? Jesus, do you guys ever get tired of blaming everyone? I don't think I've ever seen so many adults act like children in my lifetime as I did when she actually lost. I also think one of the examples for hubris in the dictionary from now on should be the DNC and Hillary before it was announced who won the POTUS election for 2016.

Hillary got 2 million more votes than Trump, still counting. And the election is January 19. Trump can keep on picking extremists for key positions and urging foreign leaders to help out his businesses, if he keeps it up don't be surprised if the electoral college decides to elect a sane republican like Kasich.

That's how civil war starts

I'll have my popcorn ready to watch the trumpheads get crushed by the feds

[Mylie10]

I think you'll find as time goes by that all the racits BS we here avery election is just smoke being blown. I would bet that Trump leans to the middle for much of his Presidency. He is not beholden to either party really, so he'll just kind of go in the direction he wants.

But of course the mainstream media will blow every single issue up, no matter what it is. The rhettoric will be unbearable. Much like yours Black Jack lol.

All good though....we got the Dubs to look forward to.

[FNQ]

That stuff is crazy. I don't get how people can bring themselves to do it.

Have you seen the video of the Dem lady stuffing the ballot for Hillary and against Bernie? It makes my skin crawl, and I just don't get it. The poor lady watching the door, while the other lady stuff the box, looks like she's gonna get sick.

I'm not sure how the GOP primaries went, but establishment dems have this "We know better so it justifies us lying/cheating/manipulating" attitude.. and then when caught, they try and justify it. This is the reason why when I see a hardcore conservative really go after liberals and Dems, I can't defend it. These people are terrible and there's a lot of them.

[Mylie10]

Most people in the country are good people. Its the scumbags on both sides that really ruin it for the majority of them who really want to make things better.

Easy example on the right is the fact that Trump even won. He's not really a guy anyone totally wanted, they just saw him as a guy who isn't beholden to the old guard do nothing Republicans. And he's willing to fight back against the media, which most righties in office try so hard not to get on the wrong side of.

I think the ultra hardcore left is hurting the Democratic party as a whole. I believe the are a very small, but very vocal wing, and they drive things to a certain extent. And that's why you have some hardcore working dems, who just want a better life for their families and the idea of job creation.

I love that things are able to be discussed here without things getting to crazy.

[Black Jack]

I think you'll find as time goes by that all the racits BS we here avery election is just smoke being blown. I would bet that Trump leans to the middle for much of his Presidency. He is not beholden to either party really, so he'll just kind of go in the direction he wants.

But of course the mainstream media will blow every single issue up, no matter what it is. The rhettoric will be unbearable. Much like yours Black Jack lol.

All good though....we got the Dubs to look forward to.

Its a lot easier to ignore the country electing a racist who used racist rhetoric as an election tool when you're not the one being targeted.

This is just my opinion but a sizable % of Americans are outright racist scumbags. Not all but its there.

[FNQ]

I think the ultra hardcore left is hurting the Democratic party as a whole. I believe the are a very small, but very vocal wing, and they drive things to a certain extent. And that's why you have some hardcore working dems, who just want a better life for their families and the idea of job creation.

I love that things are able to be discussed here without things getting to crazy.

I think the ultra hardcore left is doing all they can to *SAVE* the Democratic party. They are not the ones fighting tooth and nail for civil rights platitudes (for example, gender labeling).

Most of time this past election was spent with this hardcore left.. here's what they've been on about:

- the DAPL: where Native Americans' burial grounds are being desecrated and their drinking water possibly contaminated. In response to their peaceful protest, they have had the National Guard trotted out against them, had rubber bullets fired into their faces, had non-lethal grenades thrown at them, and sprayed with firehoses in 26 degree (F) weather.

- the fight for 15: fighting for the working class

- Black Lives Matter: this one is harder to defend because unfortunately the people in this movement who get the most publicity are the angry and uninformed, while the organized and peaceful get so little coverage or time. Deray McKesson is a great guy to follow in terms of the BLM movement.

- climate change: It's real, it sucks, and while one party denies it, both parties tend to ignore it for the sake of money.


the "standard" left has been more interested in gender roles and electing the first woman president. They sacrifice the quality of life for Americans for an ongoing civil rights battle, and use the civil rights battle as their deflection point to basically anything about the economy. And in doing so, have lost the faith of a chunk of the working class. It sucks, it really does. Because they absolutely can do both, but choose not to, because lets face it: it doesnt affect them and they believed the moral high road of civil rights issues would get them elected.

[Black Jack]

That stuff is crazy. I don't get how people can bring themselves to do it.

Have you seen the video of the Dem lady stuffing the ballot for Hillary and against Bernie? It makes my skin crawl, and I just don't get it. The poor lady watching the door, while the other lady stuff the box, looks like she's gonna get sick.

I'm not sure how the GOP primaries went, but establishment dems have this "We know better so it justifies us lying/cheating/manipulating" attitude.. and then when caught, they try and justify it. This is the reason why when I see a hardcore conservative really go after liberals and Dems, I can't defend it. These people are terrible and there's a lot of them.

I know right. It's been so rough having liberals run the country under Obama. I for one can't wait for Trump to bring back that sober, level-headed governance that Bush Jr. displayed. I really feel for conservatives having to deal with this economy. Remember how great things were in 2008?

[FNQ]

I think you'll find as time goes by that all the racits BS we here avery election is just smoke being blown. I would bet that Trump leans to the middle for much of his Presidency. He is not beholden to either party really, so he'll just kind of go in the direction he wants.

But of course the mainstream media will blow every single issue up, no matter what it is. The rhettoric will be unbearable. Much like yours Black Jack lol.

All good though....we got the Dubs to look forward to.

Its a lot easier to ignore the country electing a racist who used racist rhetoric as an election tool when you're not the one being targeted.

This is just my opinion but a sizable % of Americans are outright racist scumbags. Not all but its there.

This is true (the first part at least, I cannot say for the 2nd part).

I at times can get apathetic because I'm a straight white male and at the end of the day if I just keep working hard, I'm going to be fine. But it frustrates me to no end that it even enters my head as there are so many people who can't adopt that mindset and have to live in a state of heightened alert. And when you actually see it with your own eyes, its gutwrenching. America has to get past this, or there will be a breaking point.

[FNQ]

That stuff is crazy. I don't get how people can bring themselves to do it.

Have you seen the video of the Dem lady stuffing the ballot for Hillary and against Bernie? It makes my skin crawl, and I just don't get it. The poor lady watching the door, while the other lady stuff the box, looks like she's gonna get sick.

I'm not sure how the GOP primaries went, but establishment dems have this "We know better so it justifies us lying/cheating/manipulating" attitude.. and then when caught, they try and justify it. This is the reason why when I see a hardcore conservative really go after liberals and Dems, I can't defend it. These people are terrible and there's a lot of them.

I know right. It's been so rough having liberals run the country under Obama. I for one can't wait for Trump to bring back that sober, level-headed governance that Bush Jr. displayed. I really feel for conservatives having to deal with this economy. Remember how great things were in 2008?

To ignore the problems in your own party makes you just as culpable as the scumbags on the right. To pretend that both sides aren't littered with scumbags is to put your fingers in your ears and cover your eyes.

There is no ends justify the means in democracy. Cheating is not tolerable. I find it disgusting that you would indirectly condone that, even if it supports your beliefs. Yours are no more important than anyone else's, regardless if they seem obviously correct.

[Black Jack]

I don't really care either way since I'm a green not a democrat, but the fact is we don't live in a democracy, and if we did Hillary, who got 2 million more votes than Trump, would be the president-elect.

The electoral college was set up by the founding fathers to prevent men like Trump from taking office (and to rig the process to help the slave states count slaves as 3/5 of a person for census purposes). Don't take my word for it, go look it up.

[FNQ]

I don't really care either way since I'm a green not a democrat, but the fact is we don't live in a democracy, and if we did Hillary, who got 2 million more votes than Trump, would be the president-elect.

The electoral college was set up by the founding fathers to prevent men like Trump from taking office (and to rig the process to help the slave states count slaves as 3/5 of a person for census purposes). Don't take my word for it, go look it up.

I know what the electoral college is. Currently its function is to separate people per capita and actual land - it's been continued because of that reason, not because we as a country forgot about it. Because if you look at the maps, the big empty spaces are red and the heavily populated places are blue.

There should be a better system in place. But change never starts at the top, so the first thing that should be abolished is gerrymandering. It's a tool used for personal gain on both sides and its among the most unethical political maneuvers I've ever seen.

[Mylie10]

That stuff is crazy. I don't get how people can bring themselves to do it.

Have you seen the video of the Dem lady stuffing the ballot for Hillary and against Bernie? It makes my skin crawl, and I just don't get it. The poor lady watching the door, while the other lady stuff the box, looks like she's gonna get sick.

I'm not sure how the GOP primaries went, but establishment dems have this "We know better so it justifies us lying/cheating/manipulating" attitude.. and then when caught, they try and justify it. This is the reason why when I see a hardcore conservative really go after liberals and Dems, I can't defend it. These people are terrible and there's a lot of them.

I know right. It's been so rough having liberals run the country under Obama. I for one can't wait for Trump to bring back that sober, level-headed governance that Bush Jr. displayed. I really feel for conservatives having to deal with this economy. Remember how great things were in 2008?

Yeah that damn Chris Dodd and Barney Frank housing bubble they created really effed things up. And Bush is no concervative, the Bush family has never been conservative...neither is Trump. If you look at Trumps career he's often operated on either side based on the issue, or his issue lol

[Mylie10]

I don't really care either way since I'm a green not a democrat, but the fact is we don't live in a democracy, and if we did Hillary, who got 2 million more votes than Trump, would be the president-elect.

The electoral college was set up by the founding fathers to prevent men like Trump from taking office (and to rig the process to help the slave states count slaves as 3/5 of a person for census purposes). Don't take my word for it, go look it up.

First of all, you're not taking into account that if popular vote was they way a President would get elected, you'd have both parties almost exclusively campaigning in the high population areas. Trump would have spent most of his time in new York and California. Instead of going after swing states.

So the way campaigns are run now, would drastically change under the removal of the electoral college.