Where is Jahlil Okafor?

[TTP]

He has a TS% of .409. He's been awful. In his last five games he is averaging 18 mins, 2.4 PTS, .313 FG%, 0 3PT% (0-3).

Yet he's still grading average overall offensively and top 10 at his position defensively.

[TTP]

I don't think there's a GM in the league that would trade Murray, Dunn, or Brown for Okafor. Probably not Hield either.

[LloydFree]

I don't think there's a GM in the league that would trade Murray, Dunn, or Brown for Okafor. Probably not Hield either.

The T'Wolves and Nuggets GMs would laugh in the phone if the 76ers offered Okafor for Dunn or Murray.

[Unbreakable99]

Just staaap it. It's Brett Brown's fault he's terrible... he's not right physically yet... he's a Power Forward not a Center... his teammates are historically bad...

Brett Brown certainly has something to do with his underwhelming play. Even with Evan Turner we got to see him play 4 different positions with just about every kind of non superstar NBA player imaginable clearly displaying that he would never be a star NBA player. Brett Brown just has Okafor stuck at center mostly with a soft PF on the floor. One of those soft NBA PFs being a veteran in a contract season. He now has Okafor looking towards the sideline over his shoulder whenever he does something wrong instilling the "short leash" mentality into a #3 overall player that was once hoped to be a franchise caliber player. Jahlil should not be looking to the sideline with expectations of getting yanked from the game on such a horrible team. Jahlil Okafor is 20 years old, he shouldn't have a "short leash" mentality, everything should feel like progression in his development.

I believe that it's okay to not start Jahlil considering the minutes restrictions to him and Embiid, but he should FINISH the games much like Zach Randolph does for Memphis. At the moment Okafor finishing games is dependent upon what Brett Brown does with Embiid. Brett Brown is juts an idiot career losing head coach. He's DESTROYING assets! Noel doesn't even want to play for him! He should be fired.

You're overrating and overvaluation Okafor way too much.

[phifans]

I think we need to accept Okafor being a one diamention player and go forward from here. Play him and Embiid together and let him do what hes always been doing-attack the rim and scoring and hope others could develop. Also we should hide him behind Embiid on the defense side just like what Timberwolves did to Towns and Dieng. And let Noel anchor the defense of our second unit.

[LloydFree]

Jah feels like our new Evan Turner (right down to the truthers that feel he could be a star if he was just used a certain way and we are just using him all wrong!). Hell of a college player with fatal flaws for their position in the NBA.

It's the exact same situation and exact same posters making the exact same nonsensical excuses. "Doug Collins is the reason Evan Turner is garbage and anybody that says different loves Jody Meeks". Sub In Brown, Okafor and Noel and repost.

Now the argument that is supposed to make all of the sense in the world: Okafor isn't succeeding because he's playing out of position... at Center. Okafor's value is being compromised because Brett Brown is refusing to allow the rest of the league see Okafor humiliate himself while chasing (or more likely, not chasing) the league's Power Forwards all over the court. Brett Brown is an idiot because he is refusing to submarine his own team's defense and ruin any and all spacing on Offense, by playing this stiff against the league's Power Forwards. SMH. And it's the same Evan Turner army with this stuff.

It's unbelievable. Noel succeeded as a rookie with this coach and terrible teammates. Now Embiid is succeeding with this coach and these teammates. But Okafor can't succeed, because the coach is an idiot and his teammates are historically bad. Un-be-lievable.

[OleSchool]

Just staaap it. It's Brett Brown's fault he's terrible... he's not right physically yet... he's a Power Forward not a Center... his teammates are historically bad...

Brett Brown certainly has something to do with his underwhelming play. Even with Evan Turner we got to see him play 4 different positions with just about every kind of non superstar NBA player imaginable clearly displaying that he would never be a star NBA player. Brett Brown just has Okafor stuck at center mostly with a soft PF on the floor. One of those soft NBA PFs being a veteran in a contract season. He now has Okafor looking towards the sideline over his shoulder whenever he does something wrong instilling the "short leash" mentality into a #3 overall player that was once hoped to be a franchise caliber player. Jahlil should not be looking to the sideline with expectations of getting yanked from the game on such a horrible team. Jahlil Okafor is 20 years old, he shouldn't have a "short leash" mentality, everything should feel like progression in his development.

I believe that it's okay to not start Jahlil considering the minutes restrictions to him and Embiid, but he should FINISH the games much like Zach Randolph does for Memphis. At the moment Okafor finishing games is dependent upon what Brett Brown does with Embiid. Brett Brown is juts an idiot career losing head coach. He's DESTROYING assets! Noel doesn't even want to play for him! He should be fired.

You're overrating and overvaluation Okafor way too much.

It fits into his narrative that BB sucks

[OleSchool]

Just staaap it. It's Brett Brown's fault he's terrible... he's not right physically yet... he's a Power Forward not a Center... his teammates are historically bad...

Brett Brown certainly has something to do with his underwhelming play. Even with Evan Turner we got to see him play 4 different positions with just about every kind of non superstar NBA player imaginable clearly displaying that he would never be a star NBA player. Brett Brown just has Okafor stuck at center mostly with a soft PF on the floor. One of those soft NBA PFs being a veteran in a contract season. He now has Okafor looking towards the sideline over his shoulder whenever he does something wrong instilling the "short leash" mentality into a #3 overall player that was once hoped to be a franchise caliber player. Jahlil should not be looking to the sideline with expectations of getting yanked from the game on such a horrible team. Jahlil Okafor is 20 years old, he shouldn't have a "short leash" mentality, everything should feel like progression in his development.

I believe that it's okay to not start Jahlil considering the minutes restrictions to him and Embiid, but he should FINISH the games much like Zach Randolph does for Memphis. At the moment Okafor finishing games is dependent upon what Brett Brown does with Embiid. Brett Brown is juts an idiot career losing head coach. He's DESTROYING assets! Noel doesn't even want to play for him! He should be fired.

So its BB's fault that OK4 is a sieve defensively and your answer to that is play OK4 more???

[phifans]

It's the exact same situation and exact same posters making the exact same nonsensical excuses. "Doug Collins is the reason Evan Turner is garbage and anybody that says different loves Jody Meeks". Sub In Brown, Okafor and Noel and repost.

Now the argument that is supposed to make all of the sense in the world: Okafor isn't succeeding because he's playing out of position... at Center. Okafor's value is being compromised because Brett Brown is refusing to allow the rest of the league see Okafor humiliate himself while chasing the league's Power Forwards all over the court. Brett Brown is an idiot because he is refusing to submarine his own team's defense and ruin any and all spacing on Offense, by playing this stiff against the league's Power Forwards. SMH. And it's the same Evan Turner army with this stuff.

It's unbelievable. Noel succeeded as a rookie with this coach and these terrible teammates. Now Embiid is succeeding with this coach and these teammates. But Okafor can't succeed, because the coach is an idiot and his teammates are historically bad. Un-be-lievable.

To be honest. Turner has proved he is better than Meeks and would be a valuable player if being used correctly like what he's done in Boston. He clearly failed to live up to his draft position though but whatever.

Noel succeeded in his rookie season here. So did MCW. And another similarities are neither of them improved much since their rookie season so ...

Okafor has been poor on his defense and rebounds its just what it is. Playing him together with Embiid doesn't mean he has to chase opponents' PF all around the court I just think its a better solution for the team(not being abused when you have to play Okafor and Saric together as second unit) and for both of Noel and Okafor (to get them both enough playing time). Its not ideal but a better way before you trade one of them and its also a better way to help you find an acceptable offer to trade one of them.

And I dont think its BBs fault that he has three centers to cop with but he has to find a better way to deal with it sooner than later. Its all about The whole Team not any individule.

[Ericb5]

Maybe we really should play Okafor at the 4 to boost his value. If he plays with Embiid he may not look at bad. Embiid could mask his flaws and it may fool some GMs that Okafor can work with them.

The only problem I have with playing Okafor with Embiid is that i know it will naturally evolve into Embiid defending Power Forwards and taking even more jumpers than he does now. Okafor is incapable of defending any Power Forward on the perimeter and there is no way Brett Brown is going to play Embiid in the low post and Okafor in the high post on Offense, while trying to run an effective offense and win at the same time. The roles will naturally switch because Embiid has the talent to do both and Okafor doesn't have the athleticism to play PF more effectively than Embiid. It's not worth any negative to Embiid's development as a Center, IMO.

I share your concerns about misusing Embiid, but I'm more optimistic than you that Okafor can play the 4. I think that he has at least a 50% chance of being able to do it.


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[Ericb5]

Jah feels like our new Evan Turner (right down to the truthers that feel he could be a star if he was just used a certain way and we are just using him all wrong!). Hell of a college player with fatal flaws for their position in the NBA.

It's the exact same situation and exact same posters making the exact same nonsensical excuses. "Doug Collins is the reason Evan Turner is garbage and anybody that says different loves Jody Meeks". Sub In Brown, Okafor and Noel and repost.

Now the argument that is supposed to make all of the sense in the world: Okafor isn't succeeding because he's playing out of position... at Center. Okafor's value is being compromised because Brett Brown is refusing to allow the rest of the league see Okafor humiliate himself while chasing (or more likely, not chasing) the league's Power Forwards all over the court. Brett Brown is an idiot because he is refusing to submarine his own team's defense and ruin any and all spacing on Offense, by playing this stiff against the league's Power Forwards. SMH. And it's the same Evan Turner army with this stuff.

It's unbelievable. Noel succeeded as a rookie with this coach and terrible teammates. Now Embiid is succeeding with this coach and these teammates. But Okafor can't succeed, because the coach is an idiot and his teammates are historically bad. Un-be-lievable.

This is disingenuous. Okafor fans are not saying that he would succeed if not for how he is being used. Okafor fans are saying that he deserves the chance to see if he can do it.

He is 20 years old, and the idea is that he is not a finished product. Turner was older than that as a rookie.

I wasn't on this board during the early Turner years so I can't speak to the thoughts of the board at that time, but Okafor just had his second game of the season without a minutes restriction, and hasn't even been tried at the 4 yet.

I don't understand the idea of assuming he can't do it before it has been tried. If he can't, then we trade him. It is pretty simple.

We have enough time to try to make it work with him, and we owe it to him, and to the team to actually give it a shot.




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[TTP]

Maybe we really should play Okafor at the 4 to boost his value. If he plays with Embiid he may not look at bad. Embiid could mask his flaws and it may fool some GMs that Okafor can work with them.

The only problem I have with playing Okafor with Embiid is that i know it will naturally evolve into Embiid defending Power Forwards and taking even more jumpers than he does now. Okafor is incapable of defending any Power Forward on the perimeter and there is no way Brett Brown is going to play Embiid in the low post and Okafor in the high post on Offense, while trying to run an effective offense and win at the same time. The roles will naturally switch because Embiid has the talent to do both and Okafor doesn't have the athleticism to play PF more effectively than Embiid. It's not worth any negative to Embiid's development as a Center, IMO.

I share your concerns about misusing Embiid, but I'm more optimistic than you that Okafor can play the 4. I think that he has at least a 50% chance of being able to do it.


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Interesting. I'm like 95% certain he can't.

[Sixerscan]

I'm like 75% certain that this "Okafor should play the 4" movement is some sort of elaborate prank at this point.

[phifans]

I'm like 75% certain that this "Okafor should play the 4" movement is some sort of elaborate prank at this point.

Why would you think of that way ?
Maybe its something worth to be tried to solve our unbalaced roster and hide OK4 deficient to lift his performance and value ?
Or you have some better idea to deal with it especially when Noel is gonna back in a few weeks ?

[spikeslovechild]

He has a TS% of .409. He's been awful. In his last five games he is averaging 18 mins, 2.4 PTS, .313 FG%, 0 3PT% (0-3).

Yet he's still grading average overall offensively and top 10 at his position defensively.

If he is greasing out average offensively you need a different ruler. I mean his stats are there for all to see. He hasn't just been bad he's been really, really bad.

Negative OWS, negative OBPM, 9.1 PER (16 is avg), higher TOV% then AST%. He's been awful across the board.

[TTP]

He has a TS% of .409. He's been awful. In his last five games he is averaging 18 mins, 2.4 PTS, .313 FG%, 0 3PT% (0-3).

Yet he's still grading average overall offensively and top 10 at his position defensively.

If he is greasing out average offensively you need a different ruler. I mean his stats are there for all to see. He hasn't just been bad he's been really, really bad.

Negative OWS, negative OBPM, 9.1 PER (16 is avg), higher TOV% then AST%. He's been awful across the board.

Yeah box score stats don't like him and I don't like box score stats.

Your boards never include defense though (not surprising given that you champion for Okafor).

Btw your stat, BPM, grades Kris Dunn (-1.1) as significantly above replacement level (-2.0) and grades Okafor as significantly worse (-4.1).

[spikeslovechild]

Jah feels like our new Evan Turner (right down to the truthers that feel he could be a star if he was just used a certain way and we are just using him all wrong!). Hell of a college player with fatal flaws for their position in the NBA.

It's the exact same situation and exact same posters making the exact same nonsensical excuses. "Doug Collins is the reason Evan Turner is garbage and anybody that says different loves Jody Meeks". Sub In Brown, Okafor and Noel and repost.

Now the argument that is supposed to make all of the sense in the world: Okafor isn't succeeding because he's playing out of position... at Center. Okafor's value is being compromised because Brett Brown is refusing to allow the rest of the league see Okafor humiliate himself while chasing (or more likely, not chasing) the league's Power Forwards all over the court. Brett Brown is an idiot because he is refusing to submarine his own team's defense and ruin any and all spacing on Offense, by playing this stiff against the league's Power Forwards. SMH. And it's the same Evan Turner army with this stuff.

It's unbelievable. Noel succeeded as a rookie with this coach and terrible teammates. Now Embiid is succeeding with this coach and these teammates. But Okafor can't succeed, because the coach is an idiot and his teammates are historically bad. Un-be-lievable.

Okafor is doing less then succeeding he's regressing in almost every area since his rookie year except defense which while still bad is better.

Noel also didn't succeed as a rookie. I mean he had a decent rookie year but I look at what Embiid doing as succeeding. He had a year that you hoped he would build upon but was unable to do so the following season.

[Sixerscan]

I'm like 75% certain that this "Okafor should play the 4" movement is some sort of elaborate prank at this point.

Why would you think of that way ?
Maybe its something worth to be tried to solve our unbalaced roster and hide OK4 deficient to lift his performance and value ?
Or you have some better idea to deal with it especially when Noel is gonna back in a few weeks ?

The unbalanced roster thing is separate, I get that. We have a jam and don't really have much to lose until Simmons comes back.

This idea that Okafor's deficiencies are going to be masked instead of highlighted playing the 4 seems like trolling though. Does this really mean that the team will be less bad with him on the court if Embiid is also out there? Well yeah but the team would be even better if there was an actual power forward out there.

If you told someone before Okafor was drafted that a year and a half later there would be a group of people complaining that the coach is playing him out of position, you would assume that some wackjob coach was playing him at power forward. We've entered some sort of bizarre vortex where there are people complaining that someone is playing Okafor out of position AT CENTER. It's nuts.

[spikeslovechild]

Yet he's still grading average overall offensively and top 10 at his position defensively.

If he is greasing out average offensively you need a different ruler. I mean his stats are there for all to see. He hasn't just been bad he's been really, really bad.

Negative OWS, negative OBPM, 9.1 PER (16 is avg), higher TOV% then AST%. He's been awful across the board.

Yeah box score stats don't like him and I don't like box score stats.

Your boards never include defense though (not surprising given that you champion for Okafor).

Btw your stat, BPM, grades Kris Dunn (-1.1) as significantly above replacement level (-2.0) and grades Okafor as significantly worse (-4.1).

You said he was grading average overall offensively. Not me. I wanted you to defend that statement but you can''t of course because there isn't one reputable stat out there that can parse the numbers that Dunn has and spit out a positive result.

Also a) BPM is an all in one stat (which is why I used OBPM) b) replacement level is not average. 0.0 is average. Duh c) Okafor has not played well either

[phifans]

I'm like 75% certain that this "Okafor should play the 4" movement is some sort of elaborate prank at this point.

Why would you think of that way ?
Maybe its something worth to be tried to solve our unbalaced roster and hide OK4 deficient to lift his performance and value ?
Or you have some better idea to deal with it especially when Noel is gonna back in a few weeks ?

The unbalanced roster thing is separate, I get that. We have a jam and don't really have much to lose until Simmons comes back.

This idea that Okafor's deficiencies are going to be masked instead of highlighted playing the 4 seems like trolling though. Does this really mean that the team will be less bad with him on the court if Embiid is also out there? Well yeah but the team would be even better if there was an actual power forward out there.

Playing Okafor and Embiid together doesn't automatically equal to play Okafor at 4 though. In fact its more like play Embiid at 4 who can stretch the floor on offense and can cover larger range on the defense. Its not ideal but its better than play OK4／Saric together as our second unit. Long term though we might have to find a better 4 to pair with Embiid(I really dont like play Simmons at 4 either) but thats after we solve our crowded big man rotation. And before that we may have to find some way to get all of them enough time to play and try as hard as we can to ensure them play to an acceptable level at least.