Cousins to Suns simple Suns/Kings

[Kings2013]

It's a no.

Len is bad. Knight is negative. Warren out indefinitely? Yikes to all that

[NashtyNas]

I'm not even going to try to talk to homer Suns fans here as there is an ad case of beer goggles going on.

Boston can throw down Bradley and/or Crowder with the '17 Brooklyn pick and another young talent and. Eat pretty much any deal out there and STILL have assets.

So yeah, like it or not the conversation starts with Booker and/or Bender/Chris's and UNPROTECTED pick(s).

Stop wasting time on specious arguments about where Cuz rates and attitude. Most of the league would take him in a heartbeat and roll the dice on the talent.

Booker is literally off the table and we'd want to keep Warren. So it's really Bender/Chriss/Len + picks + fillers for Cousins. Doubt the Kings do it, but that's all we'd offer. Like other Suns fans (and many fans of many other teams) have tried to explain, no team is giving the Kings all their best young prospects to be left with Cousins alone. No one wants to be what the Kings have been with Cousins for the past half decade.

That's not to say the Kings should do it. They can get better offers from Boston (though I highly doubt you're getting Bradley or Crowder - you'll be getting Smart/Brown/picks instead). Sacramento is in a bad spot in my opinion. If they don't take a decent/good trade now, between now and his contract ending his value will only get lower - but they don't want to sell him low either. So it's a tough spot and it's only going to get worse IMO.

[AtheJ415]

http://www.espn.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=zrt6of4 Suns 2017 unprotected and Heat 2019 unprotected.

Why for the Suns? Regardless of the negativity surrounding Cousins he still is considered a superstar and puts up solid numbers. This is my key point here, IF McD is feeling pressure from Sarver he may go barnyard commando after Cousins. IF Sarver has given him a window he may not be inclined to make the trade. But getting Cousins would help the Suns attract major free agents like perhaps Blake Griffin.

Why for the Kings? Warren locked into rookie contract, Contol over restricted Len, Knight on very friendly contract and the 2 picks looking to have good value.

If McD felt pressure from Sarver he wouldn't have drafted 2 18 year olds, and traded Dragic for picks coming years from now.

I'm sorry, but that proposed trade is such a massive overpay. If we did that I'd want McD gone, and I've been one of his biggest supporters here. Warren plus 2 unprotected picks is a huge price. Add Len who has shown signs of late and it's just way too much for a guy who is a free agent in 1.5 years. Knight probably has value to a guy like Vlade. He doesn't believe in advanced stats, and Knight's raw numbers aren't all that bad over his career.

Remove Warren and that's a trade I'd consider.

[AtheJ415]

I'm not even going to try to talk to homer Suns fans here as there is an ad case of beer goggles going on.

Boston can throw down Bradley and/or Crowder with the '17 Brooklyn pick and another young talent and. Eat pretty much any deal out there and STILL have assets.

So yeah, like it or not the conversation starts with Booker and/or Bender/Chris's and UNPROTECTED pick(s).

Stop wasting time on specious arguments about where Cuz rates and attitude. Most of the league would take him in a heartbeat and roll the dice on the talent.

Then the conversation ends. You act as if the Suns must have Cousins. They're in the middle of a rebuild around a bunch of 19 and 20 year olds. What makes you think they are in some rush to trade them to barely make the playoffs?

Seriously, if the Suns did what you said who is left? Trading Booker and Chriss (their starting 2 and 4, with Booker being a guy they hold as a surefire All-Star going forward) and unprotected picks is just insane.

Frankly, I wouldn't trade Booker alone for the Boston trade you proposed (Bradley, Crowder, Brooklyn pick).

[SideSwipe]

It's a no.

Len is bad. Knight is negative. Warren out indefinitely? Yikes to all that

If you think Len is bad, you must hate WCS. They are the same age, Len is averaging close to a double double on 50% shooting in 23 mins. How's WCS been doing this year? This is his second year of bad rebounding numbers, even taking his 12 mpg into account.

Here is a little homework. How many other centers in the league are averaging what Len is averaging?

Here are the 5 centers right now averaging 9.4/8.2/1.4 on 49% FG% or better.

Gobert, Whiteside, Howard, Jordan, Len

http://bkref.com/tiny/1p1aB

Len started poorly, but he has been playing very solid basketball since the first 5 games as evidenced above.

[jbk1234]

This offer gets beat. Len is meh and coming off his rookie contract. Knight is Knight. Warren is promising but injured.

[asudevil]

For every trade which involved multiple picks AND youth for a star player i can name 3-4 where the NBA fan-base when "what really, that's ALL?"

IMO kings fans are going to be sorely disappointed when the DMC saga is over. Either he walks for nothing or is traded for a package that leaves us questioning our sanity.

[Qwigglez]

Warren has a head injury. He's still underrated by most fans, but this year he's shown the whole package minus 3-point shooting. I never thought he would be a good defensive player, but he's proven otherwise so far this year. He scores so effortlessly. He's actually grown since his rookie year and I think he's 6'9 now.
I've posted a trade very similar that included both Miami picks and the Suns own 2017 pick. Most Suns fans felt like that was an overpay for a player that could possibly leave in a year and a half.
I think if the Kings were to make a trade it would be with Boston though. I doubt they'd trade within their own division and have to deal with playing Cousins 4 times a year.

[thamadkant]

It's a no.

Len is bad. Knight is negative. Warren out indefinitely? Yikes to all that

He's going to do a Durant on you guys so bad you know it...


I agree Knight is playing bad at the moment probably sulking for coming off the bench. Len is not bad defensively he is frustrating offensively but 23 years old only... Warren well.. he was having a tremendous year 18ppg 5rpg 2spg all-round scorer... but even us Suns fans are confused on whats going on.

Trading with Boston is fine.. but Avery Bradley and Crowder are forever role players... Avery is a heck of a player though.. but sitll role players ideal around stars and that Nets pick may finish outside top 5.


For me a fair deal would be
Cousins for Booker OR Warren + Heat 2019 pick + Len

[thamadkant]

Warren has a head injury. He's still underrated by most fans, but this year he's shown the whole package minus 3-point shooting. I never thought he would be a good defensive player, but he's proven otherwise so far this year. He scores so effortlessly. He's actually grown since his rookie year and I think he's 6'9 now.
I've posted a trade very similar that included both Miami picks and the Suns own 2017 pick. Most Suns fans felt like that was an overpay for a player that could possibly leave in a year and a half.
I think if the Kings were to make a trade it would be with Boston though. I doubt they'd trade within their own division and have to deal with playing Cousins 4 times a year.

Warren is actually pretty capable as a 3pter, he has shown improvements every year.

[Fo-Real]

Cousins would be as frustrated and unruly in Phoenix as he has been in Sacto, it is who he is. I have seen video of him being the exact same way in summer charity games and summer pickup at Kentucky , this is how he is gonna act, stop thinking bringing him to another situation means a switch is thrown, the princess gets a kiss, angels sing and he never is a disruption to the team he is on until ever after. Not sure I want his type of disruption, even with his talent, Watson is teaching tight knit family togetherness, and he is rogue Black sheep! Let him hit free agency and pick his own situation, it is what will be best for Cuz.

[NavLDO]

The Heat 2019 pick is gold...

Warren is a 20 point 5 rebound 2 steals player who can score anywhere inside the arc and even around the arc.

The OP proposal is actually overpaying slightly for a 1.5 year contracted Cousins... who cannot help Kings win games anymore... they need to blow it up.

The Miami 19 pick is gold? Why you don't think Riley and South Beach won't be able to get FAs? They likely get a top ten pick this year, a decent FA and they will be a 40 win team in "18 and better the following year.

Everyone thought that way about the Lakers as well...how's that worked out for them?? They've gotten Mozgov and Hibbert and Deng, and...well, you get the point, over the past 3-4 years. They've had 3 straight top 10 picks, 2 of which top 5, and just now are they seemingly climbing their way out of oblivion after 3 straight, down-right, TERRIBLE years, yet Miami is going to turn it round in one?? With one top 10 pick??

Then let's look at Riley's recent track record with dealing with his veteran's contracts. Totally fair offer to Dwayne Wade. And obviously, Luol Deng wanted to stay in South Beach, and with Riley...oh wait...And then, of course, he must be an awesome GM for that sweet deal he got on Dragic, both what he traded away for AND what he's paying him...

How about the T-Wolves? How many #1 Picks and other Lotto Picks do you have to have before you are relevant?

#1 Wiggins (in '14)
#1 KAT (in '15)
#5 Dunn (in '16)
#5 Rubio (in '09)
#13 LaVine (in '14)
#14 Shabazz (in '13)
#15 Payne (in '15)

That's a lot of high picks and they are what? 4-10 so far this season?

But yep, Miami will draft ONE top 10 pick and LURE top FAs to Miami by next season and be assured of 40 wins??? OK, if you say so. Glad it's so easy, since the Suns just drafted TWO top 10 picks (4th and 8th), have a 5th, 13th, and 14th overall picks since 2013, and the 8th overall pick in 2011, with Eric Bledsoet and former All Star Tyson Chandler leading the Charge, well shoot, that should be good for at least 45 games by your equation...AWESOME...I'm so excited for us!!

[patman52]

The Heat 2019 pick is gold...

Warren is a 20 point 5 rebound 2 steals player who can score anywhere inside the arc and even around the arc.

The OP proposal is actually overpaying slightly for a 1.5 year contracted Cousins... who cannot help Kings win games anymore... they need to blow it up.

The Miami 19 pick is gold? Why you don't think Riley and South Beach won't be able to get FAs? They likely get a top ten pick this year, a decent FA and they will be a 40 win team in "18 and better the following year.

Everyone thought that way about the Lakers as well...how's that worked out for them?? They've gotten Mozgov and Hibbert and Deng, and...well, you get the point, over the past 3-4 years. They've had 3 straight top 10 picks, 2 of which top 5, and just now are they seemingly climbing their way out of oblivion after 3 straight, down-right, TERRIBLE years, yet Miami is going to turn it round in one?? With one top 10 pick??

Then let's look at Riley's recent track record with dealing with his veteran's contracts. Totally fair offer to Dwayne Wade. And obviously, Luol Deng wanted to stay in South Beach, and with Riley...oh wait...And then, of course, he must be an awesome GM for that sweet deal he got on Dragic, bth what he traded away for AND what he's paying him...

How about the T-Wolves? How many #1 Picks and other Lotto Picks do you have to have before you are relevant?

#1 Wiggins (in '14)
#1 KAT (in '15)
#5 Dunn (in '16)
#5 Rubio (in '09)
#13 LaVine (in '14)
#14 Shabazz (in '13)
#15 Payne (in '15)

That's a lot of high picks and they are what? 4-10 so far this season?

But yep, Miami will draft ONE top 10 pick and LURE top FAs to Miami by next season and be assured of 40 wins??? OK, if you say so. Glad it's so easy, since the Suns just drafted TWO top 10 picks (4th and 8th), have a 5th, 13th, and 14th overall picks since 2013, and the 8th overall pick in 2011, with Eric Bledsoet and former All Star Tyson Chandler leading the Charge, well shoot, that should be good for at least 45 games by your equation...AWESOME...I'm so excited for us!!

Well the pick is after the 2019 season, so that gives the heat three seasons to get to 40 wins. Starting with a base of Winslow and Whiteside, and maybe Dragic if he is still with the team. One top 10 pick and a Free agent in 17 and another in 18 yeah I think they can get to 40 wins.

When Minny traded Love, who on the team was equal to Winslow and Whiteside ? ( lets sayRubio/Dragic is a wash)
How many players have you heard talk about the great attraction that is Minny in the winter?
Who in the last 5 years in the Minny FO has the pedigree and resume of Riley in trades and FA?

Yes sometimes teams stay bad for a while, but that is no reason to assume a Riley led teamwill will sufer from the same malise that Minny did.

[thamadkant]

Cousins would be as frustrated and unruly in Phoenix as he has been in Sacto, it is who he is. I have seen video of him being the exact same way in summer charity games and summer pickup at Kentucky , this is how he is gonna act, stop thinking bringing him to another situation means a switch is thrown, the princess gets a kiss, angels sing and he never is a disruption to the team he is on until ever after. Not sure I want his type of disruption, even with his talent, Watson is teaching tight knit family togetherness, and he is rogue Black sheep! Let him hit free agency and pick his own situation, it is what will be best for Cuz.

And thats what Ive been saying on the Suns forums.

If Suns go for Cousins they will also go for another star player soon after maybe in the off season or by deadline.

McD will try to do a Boston when they got KG and Allen. Sadly Suns dont have their Pierce.

[NavLDO]

The Miami 19 pick is gold? Why you don't think Riley and South Beach won't be able to get FAs? They likely get a top ten pick this year, a decent FA and they will be a 40 win team in "18 and better the following year.

Everyone thought that way about the Lakers as well...how's that worked out for them?? They've gotten Mozgov and Hibbert and Deng, and...well, you get the point, over the past 3-4 years. They've had 3 straight top 10 picks, 2 of which top 5, and just now are they seemingly climbing their way out of oblivion after 3 straight, down-right, TERRIBLE years, yet Miami is going to turn it round in one?? With one top 10 pick??

Then let's look at Riley's recent track record with dealing with his veteran's contracts. Totally fair offer to Dwayne Wade. And obviously, Luol Deng wanted to stay in South Beach, and with Riley...oh wait...And then, of course, he must be an awesome GM for that sweet deal he got on Dragic, bth what he traded away for AND what he's paying him...

How about the T-Wolves? How many #1 Picks and other Lotto Picks do you have to have before you are relevant?

#1 Wiggins (in '14)
#1 KAT (in '15)
#5 Dunn (in '16)
#5 Rubio (in '09)
#13 LaVine (in '14)
#14 Shabazz (in '13)
#15 Payne (in '15)

That's a lot of high picks and they are what? 4-10 so far this season?

But yep, Miami will draft ONE top 10 pick and LURE top FAs to Miami by next season and be assured of 40 wins??? OK, if you say so. Glad it's so easy, since the Suns just drafted TWO top 10 picks (4th and 8th), have a 5th, 13th, and 14th overall picks since 2013, and the 8th overall pick in 2011, with Eric Bledsoet and former All Star Tyson Chandler leading the Charge, well shoot, that should be good for at least 45 games by your equation...AWESOME...I'm so excited for us!!

Well the pick is after the 2019 season, so that gives the heat three seasons to get to 40 wins. Starting with a base of Winslow and Whiteside, and maybe Dragic if he is still with the team. One top 10 pick and a Free agent in 17 and another in 18 yeah I think they can get to 40 wins.

When Minny traded Love, who on the team was equal to Winslow and Whiteside ? ( lets sayRubio/Dragic is a wash)
How many players have you heard talk about the great attraction that is Minny in the winter?
Who in the last 5 years in the Minny FO has the pedigree and resume of Riley in trades and FA?

Yes sometimes teams stay bad for a while, but that is no reason to assume a Riley led teamwill will sufer from the same malise that Minny did.

No. The pick is protected 1-7 in 2018, then unprotected in 2019, so you have your info wrong. The 2nd pick is unprotected in 2021.

And you only answered to Minny situation, not the LAL situation. Yeah, they are 8-8 now, and look to be on their way to a 40 win season, but that is not a guarantee, and still, it took 3 years...you are still talking two years with your at best scenario. And what about Phoenix? We've had Dragic, remember, and Bledsoe, as well as last year's All-Star IT, so it's not like we haven't had a 'draw' for talent...AND nice weather...AND a solid, recent playoff history (meaning within the last decade) and we haven't turned it around. So the point is, you are painting the absolute BEST possible, and yet LEAST likely scenario there. I mean, KAT and Wiggins haven't been able to turn around Minny's fortunes, and you don't get much better youth than those two on a team together, when we all know, in many cases, you end up with a Greg Oden, Anthony Bennett, or Andrea Bargnani.

So counting on 50/50 proposition draft picks, and possible FAs that want to flock to a GM that just screwed over the face of their franchise for a decade, and thinking that's going to turn this franchise around to the point where that pick will be, at worst worth a late lotto, which still holds value...well, I'd bank on the fact that that 2019 Unprotected Draft Pick will still more likely be closer to a top 10 pick, rather than a Late-Teens/Early-20s pick, because if it gets to 2019, that means it was protected as a top 7 pick the year prior, and rarely do you see a top 7 picking team one season go to picking Early-20s or later, the next.

[Patsfan1081]

I'm not even going to try to talk to homer Suns fans here as there is an ad case of beer goggles going on.

Boston can throw down Bradley and/or Crowder with the '17 Brooklyn pick and another young talent and. Eat pretty much any deal out there and STILL have assets.

So yeah, like it or not the conversation starts with Booker and/or Bender/Chris's and UNPROTECTED pick(s).

Stop wasting time on specious arguments about where Cuz rates and attitude. Most of the league would take him in a heartbeat and roll the dice on the talent.

Ummm... pretty sure TJ has more valuable than either Crowder and Bradley... and it doesn't look like that Nets pick is "gold" so much as maybe silver or bronze.

Meanwhile, the Heat have an inferior record to the Nets and their pick is only top-7 protected in 2018, and unprotected in 2019. Don't know what kind of growth their expecting from Richardson, Winslow and Johnson, but it appears to me that the Heat pick is probably as valuable as the Nets pick at this point.

All that said, as a Suns fan, I'm not interested in this deal. Rather just try to snag DMC in FA in a couple years, perhaps by making a move for John Wall instead. Our core players are 23 (Warren), 20 (Booker), 19 (Chriss) and 18 (Bender). So we shouldn't be in a rush. Can you say, Trust the Process?

No he doesn't, he's putting up 17/4 on a bad team with inefficient outside shooting and 108 defensive rating. He's also had a negative on/off court since he's been in the league not to mention a neg bpm. He was a great pick for where he was taken but isn't near the level of either Bradley or Crowder yet, who are two of the best defenders at their position. You just said the Heat pick was protected in 2018 were it has a good chance to fall while neither Nets pick has any protection and they currently have the second to worst win total in the league, it really isn't more valuable and players like Johnson, Winslow, Dragic, and you're forgetting the big man in the middle do have big upside. You're also forgetting Riley won't most likely sit there and give up a good lottery pick without attempting to make his team better, Miami is a lot more appealing than the Nets.