GT: Brooklyn Nets @ Indiana Pacers - Black Friday, 11/25/16 8:00pm

[Prokorov]

Well, as someone had stated, it's hard to develop when you're getting your brain beat up every night by large margin and not seeing any glimmer of improvement to lay your hat on...What should worry Kenny is by how much they've been losing during these losing streak....This situation could become very toxic for the players and the development if the situation doesn't improve...and when I say "improve", I don't necessarily mean winning, but I mean putting more of a fight before going down in defeat.

I dont see anything near toxic. I see 15 guys who bust their hump every second on the floor and do things within whats asked of them and within the team concept. I see guys with a focus on how they can be better, not on stats or winning. to me thats the opposite of Toxic. every single player praises kenny any time they get in front of a mic... and they all say the same things, he is trying to make me better. Same is true of all former players.

Marks/Kenny have these guys bought in and in the mindset of what they want, to build something, sustainable, and to improve every day. and I'm certain they dont measure improvement by wins and losses

Development requires trials, changes and adjustment to make things better just a little bit..Can't keep doing the same thing that only sees your team getting destroyed by 15-20 point regularly....Losing is required too, but you need to see improvement even during lost...Next step is to lose by under 10 points instead of the 15-20 point blow out loses every night.

Again, I think its just a philosophical difference between your approach and theirs. they dont care about standings or scoreboard, they have things broken down so much further then that. Hpw guys are cutting, where they are positioned. are they cutting the same angle every single time they come off the staggered screen on that first cut in the motion offense. is that pass going opposite corner on the pick and roll when the weak guy rotates? On the high screen and roll is the big set at the same height on his defender every time? Is bogs shooting for them same on every shot? When rondae is on the right side of the floor are his mechanics the same as on the left side of the floor?

thats what they look at. the details at a super granular level... and inorder to do that, they need data. and these rotations get them the most and most consistent data.

[bws94]

I didn't have any expectations going in to the season and just hoped the team wouldn't be in the basement. I hoped for 30 wins. Anything above that is gravy. I like the effort and general direction, guys buying in, however I wonder if they keep losing by a large margin if they won't get dispirited and not buy in as much. We'll see. They are lacking leadership and a veteran presence in Lin, but they still lose some of these games Lin or no Lin. I said at the outset, most important thing is health. It didn't help that another veteran in Vasquez, turned out not to work out. Brook has stayed healthy, the PG position has been banged up, and don't know how long RHJ will be down. Levert is also down so he'll have to be worked in when he comes back.

[Paradise]

The game was lost in the 2nd quarter. The starters jumped out on the Pacers, weathered their run. Held them under 30 at the end of the first.

The bench comes in during the second quarter and goes 1/10 in the first 5 minutes and the lead grows to 12. Just awful.

I know the injuries are hurting our depth but that was a disgraceful performance. Outside of Kilpatrick, Lopez, Lin and possibly LeVert...We have nobody capable of creating their own shot or capable of playmaking. The others are too slow to even blow by off the dribble and they are too slow to defend literally or vertically. Meanwhile, Tyler Johnson finished last night with 22/5r/2stls in a win at the Grindhouse. :no way:

Sean is going to have to make some moves to add some athleticism and basketball talent. Even if its taking on Rudy Gay's contract for Willie Cauley Stein because we have too many Matt Bonners and Mike Dunleavy type of players. We have too many raw prospects to pair with a bunch of talentless role players. Teams like Denver can afford to let Mudiay who was a complete raw prospect last season play throughout it because they have enough youngish veteran talent to offset the learning curve.

We're doing the right thing with developing RHJ, Whitehead, Skil, LeVert and CMC. I see the results here and there.The issue is we're doing it with only two starting level players on the damn team. Everyone else is paper soft or a glorified bench player. Efficient but still a bench player.



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[reelsgm]

There was a point in season where we were 2-3...

... and then many of you were perplexed how that could have been?

Some of us believe the large part of our performance from that point on has been "INJURY RELATED" rather than completely "talent related" - yes, ONE guy.

It's pretty early in the season to pat yourself on the back with an "I told you so" that we suck and we should never have deluded ourselves into believing we could contend.

When we have Lin back on the floor and we continue to play abysmally -- then you can take your victory lap. But if I were you, go back to thinking up excuses when we start to win again.

[Prokorov]

I just dont think they are concerned with details like the standings or losing streaks. I mean sure, they would like to get some wins... but after the game I dont think they are like "this is what we need to adjust to win". I think they break it down 1000 times more then that, to the minute details....

example: Joe Harris had a bad game state wise and impact wise. but when they look at the film they will see that harris came off that staggered screen at the same speed and angles on every cut, his form on his shot consistent. His decision within the framework of the offense. And give him an extremely high grade for the game.

Kilpatrick had a better game stat wise, but when they look at the tape they see inconsistency in his cuts, alot of free lancing outside the offense, and not being strong with the ball on his drives, and probably give him a lower grade then harris for the game even though his statistical peformance was alot better.

When they break these things down, i dont think score or result comes into their mindset other then when gauging the effort level of the opponent (i.e. they put less stock in evaluating tape that comes during garbage time with opponents end of the bench in the game).

They have development plan for all of these guys, some or most may not be conducive to winning. It frustrates me to see RHJ go into ISO mode in the half court and try and get to the rim and be a bit of a black hole, but that is how he is going to improve his ball handling in traffic and finishing at the rim... but doing it in games vs real comp.

[reelsgm]

There is at least one guy that is concerned with Wins, standings and streaks...
...he is injured but will be back soon.

[Prokorov]

The game was lost in the 2nd quarter. The starters jumped out on the Pacers, weathered their run. Held them under 30 at the end of the first.

The bench comes in during the second quarter and goes 1/10 in the first 5 minutes and the lead grows to 12. Just awful.

I know the injuries are hurting our depth but that was a disgraceful performance. Outside of Kilpatrick, Lopez, Lin and possibly LeVert...We have nobody capable of creating their own shot or capable of playmaking. The others are too slow to even blow by off the dribble and they are too slow to defend literally or vertically. Meanwhile, Tyler Johnson finished last night with 22/5r/2stls in a win at the Grindhouse. :no way:

Sean is going to have to make some moves to add some athleticism. Even if its taking on Rudy Gay's contract for Willie Cauley Stein because we have too many Matt Bonners and Mike Dunleavy type of players.


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Rudy Gay is no longer a bad contract. he has 1 player option year left at 14M for a player who is still pretty solid. 14M is 4th/5th starter type money now and he is worth that, especially for just 1 season and thats if he doesnt opt out.

I do agree we need more Cauley-Steins to balance out the "bonners". We need bigs who defend... not just ok defenders but plus defenders. I'm less worried about guys who can create their own shots. Lin can when he comes back and id rather more time for these guys to get reps. we can find our 18+ milliion shot creating wings in the next few offseasons, invest in guys who will be here long term

[Prokorov]

There was a point in season where we were 2-3...

... and then many of you were perplexed how that could have been?

Some of us believe the large part of our performance from that point on has been "INJURY RELATED" rather than completely "talent related" - yes, ONE guy.

It's pretty early in the season to pat yourself on the back with an "I told you so" that we suck and we should never have deluded ourselves into believing we could contend.

When we have Lin back on the floor and we continue to play abysmally -- then you can take your victory lap. But if I were you, go back to thinking up excuses when we start to win again.

No one is patting themselves on the back for losses. its not about us being bad.... the point is the focus isnt on the standings, its on building this franchise from the ground up, and in year 1 of that rebuild, its not about winning. will we we 15, 20, 30? it isnt important. thats the point.

No one here wants to see the team lose. I didnt pay for league pass and partial season tickets because I enjoy watching us get our teeth kicked in every night. This thought that people are rooting against the nets so they can say "I told you so" is absurd. When we were winning you didnt see me diminish it. I was in the game threads cheering us on, excited we won, and making fun of the celtic trolls who were going ape over it.

If Lin comes back and we win like 8 of 12 you wont see anyone butt hurt other then maybe netsentence who we havent seen since the season started

[Paradise]

Whitehead getting continuous minutes at PG is the only thing to take away from a game like this. 4 points, 7 assists, 2 steals, 2 blocks, only 3 TOs in 28 minutes is a good night. 1-5 from the field will begin to change once he starts to develop a consistent jump shot.

Now, I know wins and losses don't matter that much but they were certainly alot more focused two weeks ago. This defensive effort is straight up unacceptable. Lin makes a difference but these guys are not trying specifically, Bojan, Harris, Hamilton, Foye, etc.

Bojan: -17
Ham: -17
Foye: -10

Brook held Turner to 16 points, Booker holds Thaddeus to 11 points, Teague only scored 9 points against Whitehead.

And we lose by 20+ ?

Awful. That alone should make the others feel ashamed. Bojan gifting a career night to Glen Robinson with no PG-13 in the lineup says a lot about his competitive spirit and he only finishes with 8 points? Get outta here. I don't see what would be any different in another 3 Years with Bojan here as a Net.


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[Prokorov]

Whitehead getting continuous minutes at PG is the only thing to take away from a game like this. 4 points, 7 assists, 2 steals, 2 blocks, only 3 TOs in 28 minutes is a good night. 1-5 from the field will begin to change once he starts to develop a consistent jump shot.

Now, I know wins and losses don't matter that much but they were certainly alot more focused two weeks ago. This defensive effort is straight up unacceptable. Lin makes a difference but these guys are not trying specifically, Bojan, Harris, Hamilton, Foye, etc.

Bojan: -17
Ham: -17
Foye: -10

Brook held Turner to 16 points, Booker holds Thaddeus to 11 points, Teague only scored 9 points against Whitehead.

And we lose by 20+ ?

Awful. That alone should make the others feel ashamed. Bojan gifting a career night to Glen Robinson with no PG-13 in the lineup says a lot about his competitive spirit and he only finishes with 8 points? Get outta here. I don't see what would be any different in another 3 Years with Bojan here as a Net.


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I'm not to worried about what thad or GRIII or turner did. its about how these guys play team defense and it was again horrid. Lopez/Hamilton were horrific. on most pick and roll plays they caused major breakdowns. Bogs overhelping continues to be an issue as well. But thats also a trust thing and right now i dont think anyone trust our bigs to defend the pick and roll. leading to alot of open 3 point shooters... same as the last few seasons.

its a chicken and egg things. wings need to trust the bigs, bigs need to give a reason for the wings to trust them.

overall we are playing with some losing cards especially with rhondae out. There are some corrections i think can be made. I think the staff is still trying to figure out how to play it... early they trapped all the pick and rolls hard but our bigs were slow and it led to alot of layups. now we are having the PG lock and trail and the big sitting low on the screen to prevent the roll but PGs killing us on pull ups and penetration/kicks.

Maybe its just more reps for these guys, maybe its getting more comfortable and thinking less, maybe we need some defensive bigs. maybe all of the above. but defense was always the major issue coming in

[jbeachboy]

nets have been getting worse and worse without jeremy lin. levert would come in handy. marks should of gotten a better point guard than vasquez at time.

[hood30]

nets have been getting worse and worse without jeremy lin. levert would come in handy. marks should of gotten a better point guard than vasquez at time.

I'm surprised by how many people who actually expect LeVert to improve the Nets on his first year....You should keep expectation for LeVert low..He's a rookie who's coming back from major injury....Expecting him to make the Brooklyn Nets better is way too much weight on a kid who has missed a lot of college games through injury so he will not only have to get back to playing basketball again but he also have to adjust to the NBA at the same time...I seriously doubt anything should be expected of him in year 1.

LeVert is also very skinny which would make it a bit harder for him in a physical league... His built remind me of Kerry Kittle but Kittles didn't have LeVert injury record and didn't really put the NBa aflame during his first year.

At this point, the Nets should only be concerned about making sure he can stay healthy once he's back to playing basketball, so he's basically the one player that should be under glaring minute restriction given his fragility.

[Prokorov]

nets have been getting worse and worse without jeremy lin. levert would come in handy. marks should of gotten a better point guard than vasquez at time.

I'm surprised by how many people who actually expect LeVert to improve the Nets on his first year....You should keep expectation for LeVert low..He's a rookie who's coming back from major injury....Expecting him to make the Brooklyn Nets better is way too much weight on a kid who has missed a lot of college games through injury so he will not only have to get back to playing basketball again but he also have to adjust to the NBA at the same time...I seriously doubt anything should be expected of him in year 1.

LeVert is also very skinny which would make it a bit harder for him in a physical league... His built remind me of Kerry Kittle but Kittles didn't have LeVert injury record and didn't really put the NBa aflame during his first year.

At this point, the Nets should only be concerned about making sure he can stay healthy once he's back to playing basketball, so he's basically the one player that should be under glaring minute restriction given his fragility.

We saw this the last few years with RHJ. CMC, Cory Jefferson, Markel Brown, etc....

since we have so few young guys people just seem to expect anyone we get to be better cause we were old and slow for so long.

LeVert missed ALOT of time to injury. id expect a slow start and limited minutes. maybe some time in the D-league. Maybe a stretch of 20 games were he starts. difficult to say but expectations shouldnt be high in year 1 for the 20-something pick who is coming off injuries and hasnt played much the past few years