GT: Hornets @ Knicks Fri Nov 25 7:30PM EST

[EwingSweatsALot]

Missed the game, was traveling and visiting with family and couldn't make it happen.

Frustrating to lose, but especially given the fact that our health is by far the biggest issue. Get everyone healthy and there is no team in the EC that we can't beat in the playoffs. Just really feels like that "get everyone healthy" part will never be a reality. We always are either sitting guys out due to injury, limiting their minutes due to injury, or just dealing with below expectation performances because of injuries, and it's such a pain in the ass.

Even healthy we can't beat the Cavs. And I have zero confidence in us beating the raptors since they would have home court.

[LamarMatic7]

Missed the game, was traveling and visiting with family and couldn't make it happen.

Frustrating to lose, but especially given the fact that our health is by far the biggest issue. Get everyone healthy and there is no team in the EC that we can't beat in the playoffs. Just really feels like that "get everyone healthy" part will never be a reality. We always are either sitting guys out due to injury, limiting their minutes due to injury, or just dealing with below expectation performances because of injuries, and it's such a pain in the ass.

Even healthy we can't beat the Cavs. And I have zero confidence in us beating the raptors since they would have home court.

This present team has also won only once against Boston, even if the games have been close. They're kind of similar to us (at least the last year's team before Horford joined them) in a sense that they're better than their sum of parts, but I do think that they just have more talent on their roster. That, plus them probably having a home-court advantage if such a series ever happened makes me think that we wouldn't beat them either.

[yosemiteben]

This present team has also won only once against Boston, even if the games have been close.

But we haven't been healthy in the past, which is kind of the point for me, and I think our team top to bottom right now if healthy is significantly stronger than any team we've ever had.

Cody missed all of preseason and multiple regular season games due to his shoulder. Hibbert missed multiple games and is dealing with his knee. Marv is playing with a broken finger. MKG is playing with that subluxed shoulder. Lamb has missed like 11 straight now.

And this is with having to build a new rotation, including a completely new second unit, with a lot of new pieces.

I still think we have done an excellent job putting together complementary pieces and think the reason for our drop off is much more injury related than due to lack of talent.

[Mystical Apples]

More regarding Frank...
MA, what are your thoughts on why Frank takes so many 3s from 3-feet beyond the line, especially when he sets up at top of circle? He sets up there many times on his own, not like thats the spot dictated to him from defense, with plenty of room to set up closer. Is it because he doesnt have the confidence to get the shot off quick enough from a closing defender so he gives himself that extra few feet? Is he worried about stepping on the line? Is it by design from coaches? I don't get it.

TBH it's geometry.

This makes zero sense. Hey Frank take the dumbest shot you can take so our court geometry is better. You're gonna miss them and we don't get offensive boards but hell go for it. Nobody will start to realize you can barely hit 30% from behind the arc.

If your contribution to this basketball team is taking and missing 27 footers all night because of "geometry" then just LMFAO

What's funny is I never intended to point out this basic concept that everyone understands but not everyone immediately sees. But since I was asked a direct question I provided a direct answer that cuts to the heart of basketball spacing, movement, passing, and forced defensive rotations.

It also speaks to how "spacing" values can vary between 1-5 even with identical shooting percentages. Or for that matter, the difference between limited C&S compared to elite Pull Up shooters and off ball screens....Marco and Frank play together for this exact reason.

And yeah, a corner 3 is worth the same as a 29 footer except > 90% of the offensive possessions result in something else. If interested watch Frank's Q1 corner 3 @ 1:10 but ignore Frank. Sessions' beautiful look away pass under Holiday was created by Marco's productive standing from 30 ft.

[LamarMatic7]

This present team has also won only once against Boston, even if the games have been close.

But we haven't been healthy in the past, which is kind of the point for me, and I think our team top to bottom right now if healthy is significantly stronger than any team we've ever had.

Cody missed all of preseason and multiple regular season games due to his shoulder. Hibbert missed multiple games and is dealing with his knee. Marv is playing with a broken finger. MKG is playing with that subluxed shoulder. Lamb has missed like 11 straight now.

And this is with having to build a new rotation, including a completely new second unit, with a lot of new pieces.

I still think we have done an excellent job putting together complementary pieces and think the reason for our drop off is much more injury related than due to lack of talent.

I just flat out disagree with you there. In my opinion, we became worse during the summer due to the players we lost. And while I could see the point in growth from within + the added players not being much worse than the ones we lost = the roster remaining relatively the same, I don't see how one could call it "significantly stronger". That just seems wrong. Moreover, declines from Batum and Marv where things people much smarter than me predicted before the season.

So I kinda don't see the ceiling you speak of. Last year's team had a pretty good regular season for an NBA team from a health stand point. And the starters have continued where they left off as their net rating indicates.

As for the bench players, I don't see how a healthy Hibbert would change things when we can get somewhat the same production from Hawes. And we're talking about 12mins anyway.

Besides, we were healthy against Boston. Both this year and last year (Al missed one game maybe). And I just see them as a better team.

Hope this is understandable.
Rushed this on my phone in the Rain.

Sent from my C5303 using RealGM Forums mobile app

[Mystical Apples]

ugh... frustrating game.
a ton of missed free throws, Sessions for some reason logging a season-high in minutes (was super angry about some of the lineups in the 2Q), Marv's injury, Kaminsky's performance etc.

enjoyed Belinelli's performance on offense but this was.. sub-optimal

Read on Twitter

A good illustration why CHA would benefit from another defensive wing. Hibbert can't defend PnR's and is too slow to contest passing lanes without getting hammered off the bounce. The fact it's Hibbert + Sessions + Marco just compounds matters.

Nor would I play Frank at center without an additional lengthy wing. Frank isn't a rim protector and moving him to 5 removes his PnR defensive value from the 4 that makes Sessions/Marco/Hawes semi-workable.

Swapping Lamb would make a difference.

[Mystical Apples]

After watching 15 games I'm confident health and 1 or 2 minor-ish changes would give CHA an NBA Finals shot. Not a haymaker's chance a legit chance.

[bws94]

With Cody diving to the rim so effectively, why isn't Frank camped in the short corner? He made the one 3 he took from the corner last night look easy. And while I get the geometry of the straight line at the top of the key, wouldn't geometry argue for the shortest line between two points?

Also, re Frank, disappointing he can't go stronger and if not dunk one of those three misses at the rim then at least draw a foul, but Porzingis IS 7'3 with a reach up to the rafters. Yet, Frank is only a 2nd year pro. I think he's been playing pretty well of late, and is ahead of where Cody was in year 2.

But why does Nic Batum escape scrutiny? He makes Cody and Kemba so much better. But his shooting is terribly unreliable. Someone in his pay tier should be either reliable to hit game winners or at least to create and make the right play (as LeBron often does for instance). Yet Batum has been guilty of horrible decisions at the ends of several of these losses, CLE game comes to mind, and that attempt last night to get fouled from 3 instead of working for good shot was a killer. He forces things to bad effect in the final minutes. We need him to be the wise reliable one if we're going to win tight games against decent teams.

I think Batum is your ultimate distributor and organizer. He doesn't have that mentality to shoot and score in the late game most nights. Yeah, some nights he'll hit a big shot but mostly he looks to set guys up. That's just his makeup. The late-game guys continues to be Kemba. And sometimes Marv will hit some big ones late games. But now, Marv is down.

[bws94]

Missed the game, was traveling and visiting with family and couldn't make it happen.

Frustrating to lose, but especially given the fact that our health is by far the biggest issue. Get everyone healthy and there is no team in the EC that we can't beat in the playoffs. Just really feels like that "get everyone healthy" part will never be a reality. We always are either sitting guys out due to injury, limiting their minutes due to injury, or just dealing with below expectation performances because of injuries, and it's such a pain in the ass.

Even healthy we can't beat the Cavs. And I have zero confidence in us beating the raptors since they would have home court.

I think beating Toronto is a possibiltiy. I know DeRozan is playing out of his mind now but he and Lowry can put up horrible post-season games. And, the team just plays with Toronto well most of the time. Cavs, no. They're tough and things don't usually work out in Charlotte's favor.

[catch20two]

CHA's massive weakness is a perimeter defensive wing. Hopefully Lamb can become that guy.

MKG?

Right cause every team needs just 1.

I mean I was only replying to the context in which you used where if appeared as if you didn't think we had at least 1. But agreed. Lamb need to be back in the rotation.

[Braggins]

Just really feels like that "get everyone healthy" part will never be a reality. We always are either sitting guys out due to injury, limiting their minutes due to injury, or just dealing with below expectation performances because of injuries, and it's such a pain in the ass.

Yeah, I'm just going to start operating from the assumption that we're always going to have multiple key guys missing or limited and adjust my expectations moving forward accordingly.

[Zombiesonics]

its crazy how important marvin is even if he isnt hitting threes, without him MKG's ineptitude on offense is highlighted. Still don't know why frank played all those minutes at the 5 in the fourth quarter, should have been zeller.

[yosemiteben]

Besides, we were healthy against Boston. Both this year and last year (Al missed one game maybe). And I just see them as a better team.

This year Marv had a broken finger, Lamb got hurt after only 9 minutes on the floor, Cody was still under a minute restriction after missing all of preseason, and Hibbert was out with his knee injury. That kind of illustrates my point, even when we're "healthy" we're not really.

[amcoolio]

If Marvin is out for a while they will make a trade. I assume Frank starts, but there is no one really to back him up. Unless they start Marco and slot MKG at the 4, which might be interesting. But MKG's body can't handle that it seems.

[LamarMatic7]

Besides, we were healthy against Boston. Both this year and last year (Al missed one game maybe). And I just see them as a better team.

This year Marv had a broken finger, Lamb got hurt after only 9 minutes on the floor, Cody was still under a minute restriction after missing all of preseason, and Hibbert was out with his knee injury. That kind of illustrates my point, even when we're "healthy" we're not really.

Yet you can still play with only one of Marco or Lamb, Cody played only two minutes less than his season average and the same applies for Hibbert/Hawes. Sorry, I just don't see it. These seem somewhat marginal to me.

Sure, stuff like Marvin having a broken finger sucks, but then again it's not on his shooting hand and that was the reasoning for it supposedly not bothering him.

Moreover, if Marvin Williams's finger on his left hand and two backups (who have completely fine replacements as well and could earn DNPs throughout the season) being injured is holding you back from something, it doesn't sound like your ceiling was that high to begin with.

And, either way, as I said previously - we lost to them twice last year anyway.

[LamarMatic7]

Not to mention the fact that NBA teams just have to deal with injuries during what is a preposterous schedule. Not too many of them can go a decent stretch 100% healthy.

Our last season was pretty lucky as far as health is concerned.

So, yeah, I just don't see it. Clinging on to such minor stuff and expecting the team to do a lot better once a couple of interchangeable players are fully healthy seems like a stretch.

[JDR720]

If Marvin is out for a while they will make a trade. I assume Frank starts, but there is no one really to back him up. Unless they start Marco and slot MKG at the 4, which might be interesting. But MKG's body can't handle that it seems.

time for some hard wood IMO