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2016-2017 off season thread.

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Re: Offseason Plans Shaping Up 

Post#201 » by Neddy » Tue Nov 22, 2016 3:19 am

Ranma wrote:I agree with AGAVE that the Dodgers seem inclined to let Jansen and Turner sign elsewhere in order to get the compensatory picks. I just have concerns about getting suitable replacements for them. The White Sox do seem like a fitting trade partner for us, but there does seem to be more openness expressed by the Rays, Tigers, and A's with the notion of dealing away Archer, Verlander, and Gray, respectively. A lot of people are convinced that Tampa Bay will deal one of their starters this offseason with speculation centering around it being either Archer or Odorizzi with Cobb and Smyly also as possibilities. Including Robertson in a package with Sale from the White Sox would scratch off a couple of big items from of our to-do list.

However, the cost would be high and it would be unavoidable to not include De Leon in a trade for Sale, which I'd be fine with, but if we can get Verlander without having to pay as much and not include De Leon, then I'd be tempted to go make a deal with Detroit over Chicago. I'm still not keen on acquiring Eaton, especially with the cost from our side. I was also an advocate for acquiring Frazier last year, but this winter that is a less attractive proposition for me, though I'm still open to it.

I'm also encouraged to hear names like Calhoun and Verdugo are drawing trade interest, but I remain quite reluctant to part with Bellinger. It's interesting that Puig's name has been bandied about in the talks with the White Sox but I'm hesitant to even part with him until we get more legitimate right-handed power bats into the lineup. Ryan Braun does not qualify for me.

I'm convinced we're going to get a legit #2 starter this offseason, so I want to push again to deal Kazmir to the Yankees for one of their prospects ranked in the latter half of the top 12 in their system.


glad we are all pretty much in agreement that Ryan Braun does not qualify for the long term solution of righty power bat. I do also agree that we are probably in search of #2 pitcher after seeing how short handed we were in the post season.

with regard to Jansen and Turner, there is a rumor brewing about the Cubs going after our Jansen. them winning it all this season, makes their pick essentially an early second rounder and prefer Jansen to sign with a team like the Marlins. I don't like the Angels rumor about Turner either. Angels hold the 10th overall pick and we will get stuck with their second rounder. would rather see him go back to the Mets. having said that, I wonder if we are better off signing them back. I suppose it all really depends how many and what type of prospects it will cost to replace them in the market place, as their departures will bring in a pair of top 50 talents from the next draft. say it costs us Trevor Oaks, Branden Davis, Brock Stewart, Walker Buehler, and Kyle Farmer to get a closer and a third baseman, does the cost justify if we get prospects that are equivalent to two Jordan Sheffields?
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Re: 2016-2017 off season thread. 

Post#202 » by Neddy » Tue Nov 22, 2016 3:28 am

btw Brisbane Bandits are off to a good start. I am always fond of the Adelaide Bite because I had a patient from there and love that name, but of course as usual they are off to yet another terrible start. long live Aussie Baseball League.
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Draft-Pick Compensation for Losing Free-Agent Players 

Post#203 » by Ranma » Wed Nov 23, 2016 7:20 am

Neddy wrote:with regard to Jansen and Turner, there is a rumor brewing about the Cubs going after our Jansen. them winning it all this season, makes their pick essentially an early second rounder and prefer Jansen to sign with a team like the Marlins. I don't like the Angels rumor about Turner either. Angels hold the 10th overall pick and we will get stuck with their second rounder. would rather see him go back to the Mets. having said that, I wonder if we are better off signing them back. I suppose it all really depends how many and what type of prospects it will cost to replace them in the market place, as their departures will bring in a pair of top 50 talents from the next draft. say it costs us Trevor Oaks, Branden Davis, Brock Stewart, Walker Buehler, and Kyle Farmer to get a closer and a third baseman, does the cost justify if we get prospects that are equivalent to two Jordan Sheffields?


The draft-pick compensation hasn't worked like that for a little while now. Signing teams will still lose their first-round pick provided they have one and are not among the top-10 draft slots, but the team that loses the free-agent player will get a first-round pick regardless of whether the signing team loses a first-rounder or a second-rounder; it'll be just after the natural first-round of picks from the other teams and not directly traded for the draft pick that the signing team loses. The placement of the pick will be prioritized by record, if we were to lose both Jansen and Turner without signing free agents tied to draft-pick compensation, we'd get back-to-back first-round picks towards the end of the opening round based on our regular season record.

However, the scenario of the Cubs signing Jansen would not fully maximize our draft-pick position since the Cubs have a pick behind us that would be lost. Ideally, we'd want one of the teams who select after the top 10 and before the 25th overall pick (picks 11-24) to sign our free agents since that would move up both our natural first-round selection (currently 25th overall) as well as whatever compensatory draft pick(s) we would get for losing Jansen and/or Turner.
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Re: Draft-Pick Compensation for Losing Free-Agent Players 

Post#204 » by Neddy » Thu Nov 24, 2016 5:35 pm

Ranma wrote:
Neddy wrote:with regard to Jansen and Turner, there is a rumor brewing about the Cubs going after our Jansen. them winning it all this season, makes their pick essentially an early second rounder and prefer Jansen to sign with a team like the Marlins. I don't like the Angels rumor about Turner either. Angels hold the 10th overall pick and we will get stuck with their second rounder. would rather see him go back to the Mets. having said that, I wonder if we are better off signing them back. I suppose it all really depends how many and what type of prospects it will cost to replace them in the market place, as their departures will bring in a pair of top 50 talents from the next draft. say it costs us Trevor Oaks, Branden Davis, Brock Stewart, Walker Buehler, and Kyle Farmer to get a closer and a third baseman, does the cost justify if we get prospects that are equivalent to two Jordan Sheffields?


The draft-pick compensation hasn't worked like that for a little while now. Signing teams will still lose their first-round pick provided they have one and are not among the top-10 draft slots, but the team that loses the free-agent player will get a first-round pick regardless of whether the signing team loses a first-rounder or a second-rounder; it'll be just after the natural first-round of picks from the other teams and not directly traded for the draft pick that the signing team loses. The placement of the pick will be prioritized by record, if we were to lose both Jansen and Turner without signing a free agent tied to a draft pick, we'd get back-to-back first-round picks towards the end of the opening round based on our regular season record.

However, the scenario of the Cubs signing Jansen would not fully maximize our draft-pick position since the Cubs have a pick behind us that would be lost. Ideally, we'd want one of the teams who select after the top 10 and before the 25th overall pick (picks 11-24) to sign our free agents since that would move up both our natural first-round selection (currently 25th overall) as well as whatever compensatory draft pick(s) we would get for losing Jansen and/or Turner.



hey thanks for the correction, I forgot about the compensatory picks being sandwiched between the rounds. but I still heavily favor teams with worse records than us not in top 10 getting our FAs. I am really digging this rumor about the Marlins wanting to grab Jansen. they have no business wanting to spend big money for a closer, but they are owned by a Donald Sterling Lite and will do absurd things as he has proven over and over. but it is a delight to think that Kenley won't be on the mound against us in the playoffs, especially in the Cubbies or GIants uniform.
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Crazy Jeff Loria 

Post#205 » by Ranma » Thu Nov 24, 2016 7:28 pm

Neddy wrote:hey thanks for the correction, I forgot about the compensatory picks being sandwiched between the rounds. but I still heavily favor teams with worse records than us not in top 10 getting our FAs. I am really digging this rumor about the Marlins wanting to grab Jansen. they have no business wanting to spend big money for a closer, but they are owned by a Donald Sterling Lite and will do absurd things as he has proven over and over. but it is a delight to think that Kenley won't be on the mound against us in the playoffs, especially in the Cubbies or GIants uniform.


You're welcome, Neddy. It's actually my pleasure given all the info you provide, especially with regards to the international leagues. Yeah, I see the appeal of Jansen going to the Marlins over the likes of the Cubs and Giants, but I don't really see them at all as a realistic possibility. As crazy as Loria is, he's not going to break the bank and outbid Chicago or San Francisco in order to sign a relief pitcher, Giancarlo Stanton's contract notwithstanding. Plus, given the demand for closers in this free-agent market, he'd have to do so by a wide margin for Kenley to choose Miami over those other destinations even with the tax break in Florida. Like you said, he's Sterling lite and DTS has never been one itching to spend big money on premium free-agent talent.
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Rodriguez to Atlanta 

Post#206 » by Ranma » Thu Nov 24, 2016 7:37 pm

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Re: 2016-2017 off season thread. 

Post#207 » by Neddy » Fri Nov 25, 2016 7:13 pm

yeah got the Sean Rodriguez news while cooking the turkey at my in laws. there goes one option for us, but despite the hot stove hinting at a Ian Kinsler trade, I think we will in the end go with ****/Utley platoon.

one person in house that is a potential dark horse in all this, is Chris Taylor. residing here in NorthWest and having Mariner games on TV, I have always felt that Chris Taylor was given a short end of the stick to prove himself in small incremental spurts at a time. in span of 3 seasons, he was given a total of 256 plate appearances, and was given the most chances in 2014 when he just had come up. since then, in 2015, 94 at bats. in 2016, 3 at bats before he got traded to us and we gave him... a whopping 58 at bats. of course, we are a winning team trying to gain playoff advantages and the Mariners are a rebuilding ballclub so you would expect less chances to an unproven young player when we have a lockeroom full of vets who can do the job better, seemingly. but it seemed just odd to me that Jerry Dipoto was quick to elevate Marte and trade Taylor away, and after just one season he made a trade sending away both once highly tauted Taijuan Walker and Sterling Marte for of all people, Jean Segura and prospects, one too old to be really considered a prospect anymore in Mitch Hanigan and lefty Curtis... I always felt that Walker should have been converted into a closer. he has a dynomite stuff, great velocity and movement but tired out easily and loses focus to get through multiple innings. Jean Segura on the other hand is a career league average bat who had one fantastic season with the D Backs. his track record isn't there to think he is a top flight lead off as Jerry Dipoto is selling to the public. I am getting this sense, that unlike Andrew Friedman who have surrounded himself with a number of bright baseball minds, Jerry is a bit of an eccentric who has a rather quick hook to judge a young talent. no way Walker's trade value should be that low, especially he was just turning the corner flirting with a no-no just last season. I think the young Taylor might have been the first victim of his impatient approach.

just to consider, his minor league stats indicate a potential leadoff guy with a great OBP. he was hitting above .300 and getting on base nearly .400 as recently as in 2015 for the Tacoma Rainers.
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Re: 2016-2017 off season thread. 

Post#208 » by Neddy » Fri Nov 25, 2016 10:44 pm

just a tidbit of unessential trivia of world baseball....


as a dodgerfan you are, you need to educate yourselves of the Giants of the world to hate...

of course,

SF Giants.

internationally,

Tokyo Yomiuri GIants of Japan. remember, there are the Junichi(or Chunichi) dragons that look just like the Dodgers to cheer for, and the team Tom Sellick of the Mr. Baseball played for.

Lotte Giants of South Korea. they suck. there aren't any teams that look like the dodgers in Korea, but I like the Heroes which have now moved into the first dome stadium in that country. Kang the 3rd baseman of the Pirates is from there, as well as so far disappointing 1B man of the Twins Park also is from.

DSL Giants of Dominican Summer League. there are the DSL Dodgers you can cheer for. screw these giants.

then there is the defunct team of the past ABL which has been gone, but rebirthed under another name of Heat... for the newly formed ABL... the Adelaide Giants. there are no remotely close team as our dodgers to cheer for here. only the Sidney BlueSox have even a team color of blue, which I used to cheer for but **** them. too much resemblance to the RedSox. I am pulling for the Bandits this year just because of their similar meaning of their name to my Raiders. but they had to go **** it up today... scored 4 runs in the top of the first just to give away 3 runs on the bottom of the second, then score 4 runs on top of the 7th to go up 7-3, then gave up 6 runs in the bottom of the same 7th inning... scored a run on top of the 8th to make it a 1 run game of 8-9 then helplessly got three outs on top of the 9th. come to think of it, all of my teams in 2015-2016 didn't make it to the championship in any sport any where in the world. **** me.

if you guys know any other giants around the world and a dodger like team to cheer for instead, let me know.
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Alexander Guerrero Heading to NPB 

Post#209 » by Ranma » Sat Nov 26, 2016 12:37 am

Neddy wrote:remember, there are the Junichi(or Chunichi) dragons that look just like the Dodgers to cheer for, and the team Tom Sellick of the Mr. Baseball played for.



Talk about a timely segue from trivia to news.

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Re: 2016-2017 off season thread. 

Post#210 » by Neddy » Sat Nov 26, 2016 1:10 am

we are gonna have to cheer for Alex hard come april. wonder where they will put him to play defense? Dragons are in the Central league and there is no DH.
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Re: 2016-2017 off season thread. 

Post#211 » by Neddy » Sat Nov 26, 2016 3:39 pm

I wonder when the Yacult will post Tetsuo Yamada. a power hitting second baseman who hits from the rightside, fits our need perfectly. he is just into his 5th season so won't be posted for probably another 2 maybe 3 years, but this kid has posted back to back 1.000 + OPS. I think his skills can translate here.

Hideto Asamura is the other 2ns baseman of Best9 selection from the Pacific League, but I don't think his skillset will work here. Tetsuo is the clear superior and the best 2nd baseman from Japan right now.
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Re: 2016-2017 off season thread. 

Post#212 » by Quake Griffin » Sun Nov 27, 2016 7:00 pm

Chase Utley didn't hit into a single double play this season.

Unbelievable.
I know he was a lead off hitter but sheesh...NONE?

GTFO Howie.
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How Will Spending Limits Affect Dodgers FA Plans Now and in 2018? 

Post#213 » by Ranma » Sun Nov 27, 2016 8:36 pm

Chad Moriyama, DodgersDigest.com (11/27/16)
The Dodgers will aim to reduce payroll to around $200 million by 2018, according to Bill Shaikin of the Los Angeles Times, but why they’re doing so might be the most interesting part.
The club is expected to reduce payroll for a second consecutive season, with the goal of cutting from about $300 million in 2015 to closer to $200 million in 2018.

...

What’s interesting though is that part of the reason for the reduction in payroll might be an MLB mandate relating to rules regarding debt.
The rule, designed to ensure teams have the resources to meet their financial obligations, generally limits debt to no more than 12 times annual revenue, minus expenses. The Dodgers were not profitable in any of the first three full seasons under new ownership, co-owner Todd Boehly said last year. Their debt is believed to be in the hundreds of millions.

“We’re not talking about, ‘Let’s reduce our payroll by $40 million and we’ll be compliant,’ ” said a person familiar with the team’s finances but not authorized to discuss them publicly. “They have hundreds of millions in debt.”

Manfred said the Dodgers’ five-year waiver from the debt service requirements was authorized by the collective bargaining agreement in place at the time of the sale.

Dodgers Reportedly Aim to Reduce Payroll to ~ $200 Million by 2018
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Re: How Will Spending Limits Affect Dodgers FA Plans Now and in 2018? 

Post#214 » by Neddy » Sun Nov 27, 2016 11:38 pm

Ranma wrote:Chad Moriyama, DodgersDigest.com (11/27/16)
The Dodgers will aim to reduce payroll to around $200 million by 2018, according to Bill Shaikin of the Los Angeles Times, but why they’re doing so might be the most interesting part.
The club is expected to reduce payroll for a second consecutive season, with the goal of cutting from about $300 million in 2015 to closer to $200 million in 2018.

...

What’s interesting though is that part of the reason for the reduction in payroll might be an MLB mandate relating to rules regarding debt.
The rule, designed to ensure teams have the resources to meet their financial obligations, generally limits debt to no more than 12 times annual revenue, minus expenses. The Dodgers were not profitable in any of the first three full seasons under new ownership, co-owner Todd Boehly said last year. Their debt is believed to be in the hundreds of millions.

“We’re not talking about, ‘Let’s reduce our payroll by $40 million and we’ll be compliant,’ ” said a person familiar with the team’s finances but not authorized to discuss them publicly. “They have hundreds of millions in debt.”

Manfred said the Dodgers’ five-year waiver from the debt service requirements was authorized by the collective bargaining agreement in place at the time of the sale.

Dodgers Reportedly Aim to Reduce Payroll to ~ $200 Million by 2018


yeah I remember reading about that too. I think it is pretty safe to say that we are not signing any pricy free agents unless is a moderately priced 3 years or under, our own or not, and we are not trading for any player with a massive contract remaining unless they are rather cheapish 2-3 years remaining on the deal.

I think it will be for the best, don't wish to trade the farm to give us a wider, but a very short window.
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Re: 2016-2017 off season thread. 

Post#215 » by Neddy » Mon Nov 28, 2016 2:21 pm

who the f is Seth Gruen?

I have always considered the bleacher report as sports world's version of New York Post, but this moron has us trading for Ryan Braun in exchange for Puig, De Leon, and/or Bellinger.

in words of Quake, GTFO. really, we wouldn't wanna take on Braun even in a one for one deal of Puig alone if we have to eat all of Braun's contract as is, but De Leon plus Bellinger? even in an and/or propostion, this wanna be baseball writer has no idea of what each team's FO value. seriously, GTFO. and bleacherreport, for having this moron to write for you, now I consider your site a sports version of the Sun.
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Re: 2016-2017 off season thread. 

Post#216 » by Quake Griffin » Mon Nov 28, 2016 2:40 pm

The debt thing sucks but given Neddy's take that we aren't going to sign any pricey free agents or trade for a big contract, it is music to my ears since it almost forces this team to stick to its build from within guns....which I'm really into at this point.

Earn your money Gasparino.
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Re: 2016-2017 off season thread. 

Post#217 » by Neddy » Wed Nov 30, 2016 4:05 am

Braun for Puig deal showing its ugly head once again all over the net and I just cannot understand the fans who claim to be dodger fans who wishes to take on not only the entirety of Ryan's contract, but willing to give up our prospects on top of Puig to make the deal.

let the Brewers brew something rotten with Bruan on their payroll. lets see how much they like seeing their "superstar" eating up their payroll through the next presidency. there is no reason to give up anything more, and in fact I would rather ask them to send us prospects if they expect us to eat all of Ryan's contract with no relief. that would be, in my mind, a complete farce.
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Re: 2016-2017 off season thread. 

Post#218 » by Quake Griffin » Fri Dec 2, 2016 1:27 pm

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Re: 2016-2017 off season thread. 

Post#219 » by Quake Griffin » Fri Dec 2, 2016 1:32 pm

Thoughts on the new CBA???

I havent read up on it myself yet (a little busy at the gig this week) but I've seen a thread elsewhere say it isnt as favorable to us.
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Re: 2016-2017 off season thread. 

Post#220 » by Neddy » Sat Dec 3, 2016 1:45 am

I too am wondering if Jansen and Turner's QO are worth 1st rounders still or we are already at 2nd and 5th stage as the new CBA states.

if the QO are now only worth a 2nd and 5th, is it still worth it to risk them leaving? or should be accept that it is only money and sign them back?
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