2016-17 MVP Discussion Thread

[hisairness]

So Lebron playing on a super team is all fine and he's a MVP favorite for a lot of posters...but Durant is "disqualified" from contention because he plays on super team? Even though so far he's been efficiency monster, higher per than anyone not named Davis and on much lowere usage rate than all other candidates, while playing all-nba level defense. But he should not be considered since he joined a super team instead of forming one like Lebron did?

[Kabookalu]

So Lebron playing on a super team is all fine and he's a MVP favorite for a lot of posters...but Durant is "disqualified" from contention because he plays on super team? Even though so far he's been efficiency monster, higher per than anyone not named Davis and on much lowere usage rate than all other candidates, while playing all-nba level defense. But he should not be considered since he joined a super team instead of forming one like Lebron did?

Not that I'm taking sides here, but the Warriors were already a super team before Durant, the best regular season team of all time. The Cavaliers were a lottery team before LeBron. He MADE them a super team. Plus Cleveland has struggled without LeBron.

[miman15]

Cavs might not be in the playoffs without lebron. Yeah they have kyrie and love, but we already seen the cavs struggle without bron. Kyrie and love are just not reliable as the leader of the team. They cant carry a team like bron.

[gothehornets]

So Lebron playing on a super team is all fine and he's a MVP favorite for a lot of posters...but Durant is "disqualified" from contention because he plays on super team? Even though so far he's been efficiency monster, higher per than anyone not named Davis and on much lowere usage rate than all other candidates, while playing all-nba level defense. But he should not be considered since he joined a super team instead of forming one like Lebron did?

people will talk about cavs being 4-16 without lebron and gsw being 73-9 last year.

[Yank3525]

So Lebron playing on a super team is all fine and he's a MVP favorite for a lot of posters...but Durant is "disqualified" from contention because he plays on super team? Even though so far he's been efficiency monster, higher per than anyone not named Davis and on much lowere usage rate than all other candidates, while playing all-nba level defense. But he should not be considered since he joined a super team instead of forming one like Lebron did?

Yeah, it is massive hypocrisy by Lebron supporters.

What KD is doing is no different then what Lebron did in 2012 and 2013. Playing at a GOAT level on a stack team. Lebron clearly deserved to win MVP in both of those years regardless of the gap of talent between the Heat and the rest of the East. If KD keeps this up, then he too should win MVP.

[ThePersianFreak]

So Lebron playing on a super team is all fine and he's a MVP favorite for a lot of posters...but Durant is "disqualified" from contention because he plays on super team? Even though so far he's been efficiency monster, higher per than anyone not named Davis and on much lowere usage rate than all other candidates, while playing all-nba level defense. But he should not be considered since he joined a super team instead of forming one like Lebron did?

Yeah, it is massive hypocrisy by Lebron supporters.

What KD is doing is no different then what Lebron did in 2012 and 2013. Playing at a GOAT level on a stack team. Lebron clearly deserved to win MVP in both of those years regardless of the gap of talent between the Heat and the rest of the East. If KD keeps this up, then he too should win MVP.

LeBron didn't have a player on his team that was as impactfull as Curry is on this Ws team. Wade wasn't a superstar level player in 2012 and 2013. In 2011 that Wade was still amazing, it did hurt LeBron's chances of getting the MVP.

KD on the other hand, isn't the clear cut best player on his team, There are many who argue that Curry is their most valuable player (On/Off court stats actually proves it). Beside, The Warriors were a 73-9 team (back 2 back finalists and champions the year before) with the SAME CORE! How could you say Durant is the most valuable player in the league when they aren't exactly any better than they were the year before? And it's not like they suck without Durant, Even this year that they've lost some of their rotation players, They're still amazing with Durant off the court and Curry on the court. So as great as Durant's numbers are looking now, He isn't even the most impactfull player on his team.

Also voters are still aware of what happened in the finals a few months ago, I know, It's a new season and the results of last finals shouldn't affect the votes of this year, But it is what it is, Narrative matters for this award, Sometimes more than having godly stats.

[Impuniti]

The MVP award has never been the most valuable player, otherwise top talents in scrub-level teams would dominate by that metric. Nor has it been the best player in a bad team. It's been the best player in the league or one of the 2-3 best in the top 2-3 teams in the league, bar extreme exceptions. The double standards and semantics in this entire topic make for a good laugh. It would just help that people stick to their choice and go with it without making this terrible excuses as to why x player is discounted for the same metric we get the MVP 95%+ of the time.

[Impuniti]

So Lebron playing on a super team is all fine and he's a MVP favorite for a lot of posters...but Durant is "disqualified" from contention because he plays on super team? Even though so far he's been efficiency monster, higher per than anyone not named Davis and on much lowere usage rate than all other candidates, while playing all-nba level defense. But he should not be considered since he joined a super team instead of forming one like Lebron did?

Yeah, it is massive hypocrisy by Lebron supporters.

What KD is doing is no different then what Lebron did in 2012 and 2013. Playing at a GOAT level on a stack team. Lebron clearly deserved to win MVP in both of those years regardless of the gap of talent between the Heat and the rest of the East. If KD keeps this up, then he too should win MVP.

LeBron didn't have a player on his team that was as impactfull as Curry is on this Ws team. Wade wasn't a superstar level player in 2012 and 2013. In 2011 that Wade was still amazing, it did hurt LeBron's chances of getting the MVP.

KD on the other hand, isn't the clear cut best player on his team, There are many who argue that Curry is their most valuable player (On/Off court stats actually proves it). Beside, The Warriors were a 73-9 team (back 2 back finalists and champions the year before) with the SAME CORE! How could you say Durant is the most valuable player in the league when they aren't exactly any better than they were the year before? And it's not like they suck without Durant, Even this year that they've lost some of their rotation players, They're still amazing with Durant off the court and Curry on the court. So as great as Durant's numbers are looking now, He isn't even the most impactfull player on his team.

Also voters are still aware of what happened in the finals a few months ago, I know, It's a new season and the results of last finals shouldn't affect the votes of this year, But it is what it is, Narrative matters for this award, Sometimes more than having godly stats.

That's a nice revisionist history. Lebron lost it that year due to voter fatigue. Had he not been the winner the previous year, it 100% would have been his.

[ThePersianFreak]

Yeah, it is massive hypocrisy by Lebron supporters.

What KD is doing is no different then what Lebron did in 2012 and 2013. Playing at a GOAT level on a stack team. Lebron clearly deserved to win MVP in both of those years regardless of the gap of talent between the Heat and the rest of the East. If KD keeps this up, then he too should win MVP.

LeBron didn't have a player on his team that was as impactfull as Curry is on this Ws team. Wade wasn't a superstar level player in 2012 and 2013. In 2011 that Wade was still amazing, it did hurt LeBron's chances of getting the MVP.

KD on the other hand, isn't the clear cut best player on his team, There are many who argue that Curry is their most valuable player (On/Off court stats actually proves it). Beside, The Warriors were a 73-9 team (back 2 back finalists and champions the year before) with the SAME CORE! How could you say Durant is the most valuable player in the league when they aren't exactly any better than they were the year before? And it's not like they suck without Durant, Even this year that they've lost some of their rotation players, They're still amazing with Durant off the court and Curry on the court. So as great as Durant's numbers are looking now, He isn't even the most impactfull player on his team.

Also voters are still aware of what happened in the finals a few months ago, I know, It's a new season and the results of last finals shouldn't affect the votes of this year, But it is what it is, Narrative matters for this award, Sometimes more than having godly stats.

That's a nice revisionist history. Lebron lost it that year due to voter fatigue. Had he not been the winner the previous year, it 100% would have been his.

I think having created a super team also hurt his case alot.

[Impuniti]

LeBron didn't have a player on his team that was as impactfull as Curry is on this Ws team. Wade wasn't a superstar level player in 2012 and 2013. In 2011 that Wade was still amazing, it did hurt LeBron's chances of getting the MVP.

KD on the other hand, isn't the clear cut best player on his team, There are many who argue that Curry is their most valuable player (On/Off court stats actually proves it). Beside, The Warriors were a 73-9 team (back 2 back finalists and champions the year before) with the SAME CORE! How could you say Durant is the most valuable player in the league when they aren't exactly any better than they were the year before? And it's not like they suck without Durant, Even this year that they've lost some of their rotation players, They're still amazing with Durant off the court and Curry on the court. So as great as Durant's numbers are looking now, He isn't even the most impactfull player on his team.

Also voters are still aware of what happened in the finals a few months ago, I know, It's a new season and the results of last finals shouldn't affect the votes of this year, But it is what it is, Narrative matters for this award, Sometimes more than having godly stats.

That's a nice revisionist history. Lebron lost it that year due to voter fatigue. Had he not been the winner the previous year, it 100% would have been his.

I think having created a super team also hurt his case alot.

The main reason is fatigue, which is why it's almost impossible to win MVP 3 times in a row as we've seen over the last few decades. There is an actual (factual) precedent for this, but you know.. whatever narrative you'd like, you go with that one.

[Yank3525]

So Lebron playing on a super team is all fine and he's a MVP favorite for a lot of posters...but Durant is "disqualified" from contention because he plays on super team? Even though so far he's been efficiency monster, higher per than anyone not named Davis and on much lowere usage rate than all other candidates, while playing all-nba level defense. But he should not be considered since he joined a super team instead of forming one like Lebron did?

Yeah, it is massive hypocrisy by Lebron supporters.

What KD is doing is no different then what Lebron did in 2012 and 2013. Playing at a GOAT level on a stack team. Lebron clearly deserved to win MVP in both of those years regardless of the gap of talent between the Heat and the rest of the East. If KD keeps this up, then he too should win MVP.

LeBron didn't have a player on his team that was as impactfull as Curry is on this Ws team. Wade wasn't a superstar level player in 2012 and 2013. In 2011 that Wade was still amazing, it did hurt LeBron's chances of getting the MVP.

KD on the other hand, isn't the clear cut best player on his team, There are many who argue that Curry is their most valuable player (On/Off court stats actually proves it). Beside, The Warriors were a 73-9 team (back 2 back finalists and champions the year before) with the SAME CORE! How could you say Durant is the most valuable player in the league when they aren't exactly any better than they were the year before? And it's not like they suck without Durant, Even this year that they've lost some of their rotation players, They're still amazing with Durant off the court and Curry on the court. So as great as Durant's numbers are looking now, He isn't even the most impactfull player on his team.

Also voters are still aware of what happened in the finals a few months ago, I know, It's a new season and the results of last finals shouldn't affect the votes of this year, But it is what it is, Narrative matters for this award, Sometimes more than having godly stats.

Wade was 3rd and 7th in PER in 2012 and 2013, he may not be as good as Steph, but he was still 1st tier all-star caliber player. And Durant is currently the best player on the Warriors and I don't think this is really debatable at the moment. Similar offensive impact as Steph, but far more impactful defensively.

And I don't care about what GS did last year. Right now all that matters is that Durant is putting up 27 ppg on 68% TS and a PER of 31. He is on pace to having one of the most efficient seasons of all-time and he is playing at a higher level then he did in 2014. It would be a joke if he doesn't win MVP if continues to play at this level.

[Yank3525]

LeBron didn't have a player on his team that was as impactfull as Curry is on this Ws team. Wade wasn't a superstar level player in 2012 and 2013. In 2011 that Wade was still amazing, it did hurt LeBron's chances of getting the MVP.

KD on the other hand, isn't the clear cut best player on his team, There are many who argue that Curry is their most valuable player (On/Off court stats actually proves it). Beside, The Warriors were a 73-9 team (back 2 back finalists and champions the year before) with the SAME CORE! How could you say Durant is the most valuable player in the league when they aren't exactly any better than they were the year before? And it's not like they suck without Durant, Even this year that they've lost some of their rotation players, They're still amazing with Durant off the court and Curry on the court. So as great as Durant's numbers are looking now, He isn't even the most impactfull player on his team.

Also voters are still aware of what happened in the finals a few months ago, I know, It's a new season and the results of last finals shouldn't affect the votes of this year, But it is what it is, Narrative matters for this award, Sometimes more than having godly stats.

That's a nice revisionist history. Lebron lost it that year due to voter fatigue. Had he not been the winner the previous year, it 100% would have been his.

I think having created a super team also hurt his case alot.

No, it didn't.

What hurt Lebron in 2011 was his team's record. The Bulls overachieved, while the Heat underachieved in terms of wins and losses. If Miami had won 60+ games and finished first in the conference, Lebron likely wins MVP.

[MisterHibachi]

And Durant is currently the best player on the Warriors and I don't think this is really debatable at the moment. Similar offensive impact as Steph, but far more impactful defensively.

He may be a better player, there's a good debate to be had there. But let's not conflate that with impact. The number don't support your claim that Durant is more impactful.

WARRIORS

Durant on, Curry off ======> 108/108. +00 NRTG
Curry on, Durant off ======> 113/101. +12 NRTG
Durant on, Curry on ======> 125/101. +24 NRTG

Durant is benefitting from his supporting cast more than he helps them.

[ThePersianFreak]

That's a nice revisionist history. Lebron lost it that year due to voter fatigue. Had he not been the winner the previous year, it 100% would have been his.

I think having created a super team also hurt his case alot.

No, it didn't.

What hurt Lebron in 2011 was his team's record. The Bulls overachieved, while the Heat underachieved in terms of wins and losses. If Miami had won 60+ games and finished first in the conference, Lebron likely wins MVP.

Then let's agree to disagree.

[Yank3525]

And Durant is currently the best player on the Warriors and I don't think this is really debatable at the moment. Similar offensive impact as Steph, but far more impactful defensively.

He may be a better player, there's a good debate to be had there. But let's not conflate that with impact. The number don't support your claim that Durant is more impactful.

WARRIORS

Durant on, Curry off ======> 108/108. +00 NRTG
Curry on, Durant off ======> 113/101. +12 NRTG
Durant on, Curry on ======> 125/101. +24 NRTG

Durant is benefitting from his supporting cast more than he helps them.

Durant has played more minutes with the reserves then Steph.

[MisterHibachi]

And Durant is currently the best player on the Warriors and I don't think this is really debatable at the moment. Similar offensive impact as Steph, but far more impactful defensively.

He may be a better player, there's a good debate to be had there. But let's not conflate that with impact. The number don't support your claim that Durant is more impactful.

WARRIORS

Durant on, Curry off ======> 108/108. +00 NRTG
Curry on, Durant off ======> 113/101. +12 NRTG
Durant on, Curry on ======> 125/101. +24 NRTG

Durant is benefitting from his supporting cast more than he helps them.

Durant has played more minutes with the reserves then Steph.

Thst implies he's also played against reserves more than Steph.

[SunKing]

What do you guys think Rondos MVP chances are? hes averaging 8/7/7 on a robust 37/27/63. I think his biggest roadblock is that the Bulls arent a top 2 seed, but I could see them get there by the end of the season. Am I giving him too much credit? I think he has a decent shot behind the frontrunners like Lebron or Durant or Curry

I see you, I sincerly lol'ed bro

[Patches Perry]

So Lebron playing on a super team is all fine and he's a MVP favorite for a lot of posters...but Durant is "disqualified" from contention because he plays on super team? Even though so far he's been efficiency monster, higher per than anyone not named Davis and on much lowere usage rate than all other candidates, while playing all-nba level defense. But he should not be considered since he joined a super team instead of forming one like Lebron did?

So much for the people won't remember when he puts up monster numbers argument. Durant is "disqualified" because people don't want to reward him for what he did this summer, in addition to the reasons already stated in the above posts. He created a bias against himself with that decision, and he has to live with the consequences. He is having a monster season, and will more likely win titles than if he had stayed in OKC, but consequences dictate that he won't receive appropriate credit because he took a shortcut no other player his caliber has taken before. The idea that people wouldn't remember the huge shortcut he took was silly to me. Maybe he doesn't care, and having fun playing basketball while winning is all that matters. Kudos to him if that's the case, he might the right choice. In that scenario, it'll be his fans that are most outraged that he can never reach LeBron level or when Leonard gets more individual favor than him.

LeBron has played with some talented players, but his teams have always been pretty mediocre without him, and starting in 2012 or so, he took a firm leadership role on every team he played on. Durant isn't a great leader, so it'll be tough to overcome that. If Durant can become the vocal leader of the Warriors, and they face some adversity (maybe Curry gets hurt for a playoff run), then we might see Durant earn some favor by carrying his team all the way. Until then, why would anyone credit Durant for carrying a team that won a title and won 73 games without him? He joined the winning team, he didn't create it.

[Tracymcgoaty]

What do you guys think Rondos MVP chances are? hes averaging 8/7/7 on a robust 37/27/63. I think his biggest roadblock is that the Bulls arent a top 2 seed, but I could see them get there by the end of the season. Am I giving him too much credit? I think he has a decent shot behind the frontrunners like Lebron or Durant or Curry

Well Looks to me that he has an excellent chance to be a part of the 30/30/60 club few PG in this league have done that if any. Rondos chance is about as big as currys if he keeps this level of play up.

[Bertrob]

Well Looks to me that he has an excellent chance to be a part of the 30/30/60 club few PG in this league have done that if any. Rondos chance is about as big as currys if he keeps this level of play up.

I just looked it up there is no one who has played half of a season that is in the 30/30/60 club, so you're right its unprecedented! wow! does this help his case? Its even rarer than the 50/40/90 club